Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Arizona Wayne on February 05, 2018, 02:02:01 PM
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.........http://www.motorcycledaily.com
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If Harley hired me as a Dogbert-style consultant and asked for my opinion as to the best way forward, I'd hardly know what to tell them.
They've made some silly decisions over the years, to be honest (coughcoughbuellcoug h, aCHOOMVAgustasniff), so they've already proved they're not infallible, but they certainly have made a lot of money for their employees and investors over the years so maybe they know the path forward.
Not electric motorcycles, me seh dat, mon ....
Lannis
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It will be really confusing if they call one of their electric models Electra Glide...
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What a complete waste of reading time! It's an 'opinion' article based on the author stringing together a series of cherry-picked truisms and then "laughing out loud" at some mental picture he gets from it. He wears the mindset of the generation he's criticizing, and while hand-wringing about the state of the big displacement cruisers, he ridicules the attempt to move past them. It's a classic case of Harley bashing for its own sake.
There is only one government on the planet that still encourages fossil fuel consumption. Any vehicle manufacturer that's NOT reacting to the death of petroleum is on a short course to failure. HD, Honda, and others are at least diversifying into the market. Many new companies are being built around the concept. The real topic for this forum is: MOTO GUZZI: GO ELECTRIC OR GO HOME. Does Piaggio have any plans to 'lectrify Moto Guzzi, or does the marque slide past obscurity into oblivion?
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I hope not. It would be a very sad day...
I have my eye on a new Road King, with wire wheels, white wall tires, hard bags that open and close easily and do not leak, a removable windscreen... Sort of like this one:
(https://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my18/touring/road-king/gallery/dom/road-king-gallery-6.jpg?impolicy=myresize&rw=1137)
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One thing is for certain, we will see more autonomous self-driving vehicles and more electric vehicles on our lifetime.
What will happen to HD and Guzzi and the rest is speculation at this point, but I believe change is definitely coming...
This is an interesting website / perspective on a electric motorcycle that has been around now for >10 years:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
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Just got to thinking, could Moto Guzzi build an electric bike that still could have the V-twin configuration look? Thinking that the "jugs" could be battery packs with the electric motor where the current crankcase is. Could even be shaft drive. :popcorn:
GliderJohn
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I hope not. It would be a very sad day...
It's odd though ... I do about 1/3 of my annual riding on BSA motorcycles. BSA hasn't made a motorcycle in 46 years, but it doesn't slow me down at all, parts are still available, etc.
My newest Guzzi is 9 years old, and does a great job of getting me around.
As we've mentioned, there are literally MILLIONS of low mileage Harley Davidsons around the country. If Harley went out of business tomorrow, and you and me and everyone on this board and everyone I know went and bought a Harley and started riding them 20,000 miles a year, we'd all be riding new-looking Harleys for the rest of our lives, and so will our sons and daughters.
Is it really so important that Harley continue to make and sell hundreds of thousands of the same kind of motorcycle they've been making for 65 years (tele-forked, foot-shift Panheads being a close relative of a FLHTCST ElectraRoadSoftDyna WideGlide Classic)?
They've had an ell of a run, and all good things must come to an end eventually ....
When we can go 300 miles on a charge in our cars, and "recharge" in 10 minutes, Electric Vehicles will be practical vs. petrol in the USA, not before. The technology will decide ....
Lannis
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I hope not. It would be a very sad day...
I have my eye on a new Road King, with wire wheels, white wall tires, hard bags that open and close easily and do not leak, a removable windscreen... Sort of like this one:
(https://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my18/touring/road-king/gallery/dom/road-king-gallery-6.jpg?impolicy=myresize&rw=1137)
I totally get it.
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I'm not a HD fan, but that is a very attractive bike.
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Just got to thinking, could Moto Guzzi build an electric bike that still could have the V-twin configuration look? Thinking that the "jugs" could be battery packs with the electric motor where the current crankcase is. Could even be shaft drive. :popcorn:
GliderJohn
I sincerely hope not
That's like putting a 2 Liter Turbo sticker on your ratty 1.1 Fiesta
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I'm looking forward to owning an electric motorcycle. Not sure I'll care much about the brand, but time will tell. There is room in my garage for ICE and ELC vehicles.
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Agreed...that is one beautiful Road King!!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iNvxwH/Screen_Shot_2018_02_05_at_4_08_13_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/iNvxwH)
Here is the last Road King I owned, 2007 model. I miss that bike in many ways... :cool: :thumb: They are excellent bikes!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/d9oNVc/Yosemite_Ride_7_10_001.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d9oNVc)
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Hmm , maybe the MoCo could reuse the model name Hummer for their E bike , Live Wire is really pretty lame :rolleyes:
The name Plugindian has been trademarked :laugh:
Dusty
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For me I want a moto that I can load up about 60 lbs of gear and hit the road. It will have to be able to do 600/700 miles a day sometimes.(at 80+ if I'm in the mood.)
I like to venture into remote places and explore around.
The above is a requirement or I'll give up riding .
I won't live to see an electric two wheeler that can come anywhere close to that.
No, we won't see that in our lifetime. But a couple generations ago folks snickered at the idea of a 100 hp 1-liter engine in a street bike, too. It's just a matter of time.
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For me I want a moto that I can load up about 60 lbs of gear and hit the road. It will have to be able to do 600/700 miles a day sometimes.(at 80+ if I'm in the mood.)
I like to venture into remote places and explore around.
The above is a requirement or I'll give up riding .
I won't live to see an electric two wheeler that can come anywhere close to that.
The ol' Road King will do all that...with no issues!! Here are some of the last memorable photos from a ride through in some in July 2010, with some NORCAL buddies. Great trip, and for me, this is what motorcycling has always been about... :smiley:
:thumb: :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nAmqix/Yosemite_Ride_7_10_016.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nAmqix)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dHa5GH/Yosemite_Ride_7_10_017.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dHa5GH)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ih6ebH/Yosemite_Ride_7_10_041.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ih6ebH)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nqY33x/Yosemite_Ride_7_10_042.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nqY33x)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jkbebH/Yosemite_Ride_7_10_044.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jkbebH)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dzvuAc/Yosemite_Ride_7_10_046.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dzvuAc)
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Some of you guys missed the point of the article. It has nothing to do with a shortage of gasoline. It has all to do with the weight of Harleys, the age of their buyers/owners, the image of HDs and the sound of HDs. Like many of us most HDs are too heavy as we age and no electric MC is going to have that potato, potato sound. Neither are electric bike riders going to have that macho image. All these things are essential for HD to prosper on.
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Some of you guys missed the point of the article. It has nothing to do with a shortage of gasoline. It has all to do with the weight of Harleys, the age of their buyers/owners, the image of HDs and the sound of HDs. Like many of us most HDs are too heavy as we age and no electric MC is going to have that potato, potato sound. Neither are electric bike riders going to have that macho image. All these things are essential for HD to prosper on.
I believe the aging riders have been discussed previously here and elsewhere ? It was the end of Harley in the late 70's because of poor quality and the flood of big Asian bikes...It was the death of Harley around 1950 because of the lighter faster British bikes flooding into the country. Harley even filed an unfair trade deal and lost...Was it back around 1920 when Harley was figured to fold because of Indian ?
Will HD rise from the ashes one more time? I say yes..
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Some of you guys missed the point of the article. It has nothing to do with a shortage of gasoline. It has all to do with the weight of Harleys, the age of their buyers/owners, the image of HDs and the sound of HDs. Like many of us most HDs are too heavy as we age and no electric MC is going to have that potato, potato sound. Neither are electric bike riders going to have that macho image. All these things are essential for HD to prosper on.
What the article did was mock the old way of doing business while ridiculing the strategy to get past the inertia.
All industries and all businesses must evolve or die. HD is no different. Could you imagine using kerosene lamps in 2018 simply because electricity is silly?
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What the article did was mock the old way of doing business while ridiculing the strategy to get past the inertia.
All industries and all businesses must evolve or die. HD is no different. Could you imagine using kerosene lamps in 2018 simply because electricity is silly?
If Harley wasn't so set in their 1 image of burly leather clad riders on brute looking bikes with potato sounding sound that led to most customers & dealers ignoring Buell bikes on their display floors too maybe HD could have widened their appeal to more riders. But Nooo Buell got kicked out instead and here they are now. They have thrived on 1 image and they are going to die on the same image. While other major MC brands appeal to many different kinds of products to stay afloat. You reap what you sow.
At least our local HD dealer doesn't sell just HDs. They have Jap. bikes, quads, jet skis, etc. But more HDs on display than anything else.
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If Harley wasn't so set in their 1 image of burly leather clad riders on brute looking bikes with potato sounding sound that led to most customers & dealers ignoring Buell bikes on their display floors too maybe HD could have widened their appeal to more riders.
Not sure if it was Harley who invented and pushed the image or if riders did it for them. Back in the 50's and 60's, it was certainly "The Wild One" and bikesploitation B-movies and "Easyriders" magazine that associated Harleys with scarey leather-clad bad-asses that would kick your behind in a second just because they had a Harley.
But what happens when people decide that's "played"? Harley can't sell bikes to them; what are they going to sell?
Lannis
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I don't think there's any chance that Harley will go out of business. But I am surprised that they took the same product and milked it's popularity as long as they did and continue to do. But live by it and die by it.
They've never been able to successfully diversify their product line. They probably could've done something with Buell but perhaps it should be been the Harley Sportsline or something. They've killed the VRod too, a line that could've been expanded into Sports Touring but it was put in cruiser and style mode. That new little water cooled cruiser just doesn't seem have anything special about it.
Harley, a victim of it's success.
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Maybe
Sorry I got interrupted...
I was going to say that I think that the only real way electric machines are going to be very practical would be with wireless power transfer.
You would have power towers like cell phone ones and they would transfer power to your vehicle like a cell phone, no wires no battery.
Then you just pay monthly fee and go.
Mr. Tesla's (The one from Belgrade) idea..
:-)
Wireless power transmission of the type you're talking about is not an engineering problem like 3-second Top Fuel dragsters or 400 HP street bike engines or 10 terabyte postage-stamp data drives, it's a physics problem like traveling faster than light or transwarp transporter beams or time travel. A bit harder to solve, and there's no way to tell who's lifetime it will be in. Maybe the Morlocks will discover the principle that bypasses Rayleigh scattering and diffraction that allows it ....
Lannis
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At least our local HD dealer doesn't sell just HDs. They have Jap. bikes, quads, jet skis, etc. But more HDs on display than anything else.
Odd.
In all my years in motorcycling I've never seen a Harley-Davidson dealer (of NEW bikes) that also had new bikes of other manufacturers, Japanese or otherwise. I always assumed they were prohibited by contract per H-D, but I never asked.
I have seen USED bikes in a Harley dealership that were not Harleys.
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Odd.
In all my years in motorcycling I've never seen a Harley-Davidson dealer (of NEW bikes) that also had new bikes of other manufacturers, Japanese or otherwise. I always assumed they were prohibited by contract per H-D, but I never asked.
I have seen USED bikes in a Harley dealership that were not Harleys.
Not that unusual , a dealer in Bartlesville OK sold HD , and two Japanese brands .
Dusty
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absolutely right!
But it would have to be solved for me to acquire an electric vehicle.
Maybe the guys driving the flying saucers will give us a heads up!
:-)
:thumb:
Funny how that now everyone on the planet is carrying one or more video cameras in their pockets all the time, the UFOs and the Yetis so prevalent in the past have sort of .... gone away. :undecided:
Maybe there's something about the emanations from camera phones that scares away Bigfoot and ET, and they just don't come around any more.
Lannis
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One thing is for certain, we will see more autonomous self-driving vehicles and more electric vehicles on our lifetime.
Don't know why it's "certain", any more than it was certain that personal jet-packs for commuting would be common, 80% of the cars in cities were replaced by Segways, flying cars would populate the nations flyways like on Coruscant, that we'd have Mars colonies by 2000, and that atomic-generated electricity would be too cheap to meter.
Every one of those things got started, every one prototyped, every one technically possible, every one was the Wave of the Future, every one was breathlessly hyped in the press. And none of them are in the process of happening.
So just because autonomous cars and electric cars are prototyped, possible, started, touted and The Wave of the Future, and are all being breathlessly hyped, does not mean they are anything LIKE certain ... :thewife:
CHANGE is certain, but if we could predict what it was actually going to BE, we'd be getting ready to be the next technology billionaires.
All right, which one of you is it?
Lannis
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Odd.
In all my years in motorcycling I've never seen a Harley-Davidson dealer (of NEW bikes) that also had new bikes of other manufacturers, Japanese or otherwise. I always assumed they were prohibited by contract per H-D, but I never asked.
I have seen USED bikes in a Harley dealership that were not Harleys.
Yeah, like Dusty said, it's not the unusual.
Over the years I've seen a number. Sometimes they had separate buildings on same premises, sometimes split showrooms with separate areas but same building, other times they were down right intermingled in the open floor plan.
I got the impression it was more common before the HD boom of the 90's and early 00's before the crash.
I'm sure dealer and franchise laws vary enough from state to state that we can't draw any absolutes and I'm sure Harley used what influence the could to force or discourage multi-brand dealers over the years.
I personally know one old time PA dealer who went from having Kawasaki in the same showroom in the early 90's, to moving that to a separate dealer, to dropping that, to picking up Big Dog under the same Harley roof, to being forced to move Big Dog another location, then the crash, they picked up Triumph and sold them in both Harley locations, and eventually dropped them again.
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So where do you think that ball you dropped will stop?
:-)
I just presented the equation of motion ... someone else has got to solve the engineering problem!
Lannis
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Wireless power transmission of the type you're talking about is not an engineering problem like 3-second Top Fuel dragsters or 400 HP street bike engines or 10 terabyte postage-stamp data drives, it's a physics problem like traveling faster than light or transwarp transporter beams or time travel. A bit harder to solve, and there's no way to tell who's lifetime it will be in. Maybe the Morlocks will discover the principle that bypasses Rayleigh scattering and diffraction that allows it ....
Lannis
Actually, it's already well on the way to being solved - through induction loops embedded in the road. Like any other change to the fuel issue (LNG, propane, hydrogen fuel cell, etc) the real problem is changing the infrastructure.
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Yea , its that " Idea " that "Real Men Ride 800# Bikes " that I think will be their downfall . I don't know anybody that can man-handle 800#'s like its 400#'s .
If their 750 bike was sized for men instead of 5'3" women then they might have sold me one instead of me getting a Guzzi V-7. But , the Harley would have had to be as light or lighter than the Guzzi too !
I've got a Sportster that's less than 600 # , and like it , but it don't handle like my V-7II --- not even close !
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Actually, it's already well on the way to being solved - through induction loops embedded in the road. Like any other change to the fuel issue (LNG, propane, hydrogen fuel cell, etc) the real problem is changing the infrastructure.
If "imagining" burying and powering "induction loops" in 4,000,000 miles of US highways qualifies as "well on its way to being solved" then ... no, I can't finish that statement.
Lannis
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If "imagining" burying and powering "induction loops" in 4,000,000 miles of US highways qualifies as "well on its way to being solved" then ... no, I can't finish that statement.
Lannis
Exactly. A technical solution is the easy part of any such problem. Making it real is the difference between concept and science on the one hand, and engineering and economics on the other.
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If Harley wasn't so set in their 1 image of burly leather clad riders on brute looking bikes with potato sounding sound that led to most customers & dealers ignoring Buell bikes on their display floors too maybe HD could have widened their appeal to more riders. But Nooo Buell got kicked out instead and here they are now. They have thrived on 1 image and they are going to die on the same image. While other major MC brands appeal to many different kinds of products to stay afloat. You reap what you sow.
At least our local HD dealer doesn't sell just HDs. They have Jap. bikes, quads, jet skis, etc. But more HDs on display than anything else.
Why quote me and then say something unrelated?
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I hope not. It would be a very sad day...
I have my eye on a new Road King, with wire wheels, white wall tires, hard bags that open and close easily and do not leak, a removable windscreen... Sort of like this one:
(https://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my18/touring/road-king/gallery/dom/road-king-gallery-6.jpg?impolicy=myresize&rw=1137)
That is a pretty bike.No leather or studs.
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its like a brown bassa. the color makes that rk
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Why quote me and then say something unrelated?
Rk, your ego has no limits. You have nothing to do with what I said you are referring to now. :rolleyes:
To all..........a couple hours ago there were 58 posts on this subject @ this website I posted. Now there are over 100. I suggest you read them and see for yourself what other bikers have to say starting from the top. :azn:
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Rk, your ego has no limits. You have nothing to do with what I said you are referring to now. :rolleyes:
I'm just guessing at what this gibberish means, but you appear to be repeating what I said -- that your comment had nothing to do with what you quoted. So I'll ask again (without the rolly-eye thing): Why quote someone in a comment that has no relevance to the quote?
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Good grief , it is just a bunch of guys prognosticating about something they likely don't know anything about . The MoCo has had its ups and downs repeatedly , they will probably survive .
Remember this ?
Moto Guzzi ,
Established 1921
Going out of business
Since 1922
Hell , HD is a cash rich company , they could probably survive for 20 years on that alone while they adapt .
The world is full of business experts who have zero experience .
Dusty
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The Manitowoc, WI HD dealership had a Moto Guzzi franchise for a while....
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I believe the aging riders have been discussed previously here and elsewhere ? It was the end of Harley in the late 70's because of poor quality and the flood of big Asian bikes...It was the death of Harley around 1950 because of the lighter faster British bikes flooding into the country. Harley even filed an unfair trade deal and lost...Was it back around 1920 when Harley was figured to fold because of Indian ?
Will HD rise from the ashes one more time? I say yes..
Actually, if memory serves me, H-D did win an ufair trade complaint in the early 1980s & got gov't protection for (?) years - I also seem to remember that they asked that the protection be removed a year or 2 early and made a bit deal of it in a PR campaign.
On the "other brands in Harley dealerships" issue, H-D has had for years a blanket policy of no other brands co-located with a Harley dealership, particularly after about 1989-90 or so, when the waiting lines were 1.5+ years for a bike in many areas; a few dealerships that had other brands before this time were grandfathered in but, for the most part, were forced to drop the other brands (or drop Harley), especially if they moved or substantially renovated their location. I live close to one such dealership, & this guy managed to keep his multi-brand dealership even tho he did move - none of us can figure out how he did it, unless he has pictures of senior management of H-D in a pasture "getting ziggy" with some sheep or something equivalent. So, like everything else, there are exceptions to the rule.
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Dusty, an article was offered for our consideration. I considered it, and my opinion of the article was that the author was being critical of HD for staying the same, and then critical of them for changing. I concluded that the author was engaged in standard HD bashing.
My general comment was that all business and all industry must find a way to evolve or they die. GE invented the incandescent light bulb (Edison). They no longer produce them. Western Union no longer uses the telegraph. Wells Fargo gave up mass transportation.
And that's all I said. When one of my comments got quoted in an unrelated post, I asked how come? In reply I was insulted in a very ungrammatical fashion, leaving my question unanswered. So I've asked again.
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That was kinda my point , some business "expert" writes an opinion piece bashing the MoCo , I'm curious if he can knows what a P&L sheet is ?
Maybe we should put this one to rest fellas , these threads predicting how the MoCo is failing never seem to end well .
Dusty
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Put a short sweet 80 miles on the H-D Street Glide before work today.
It's sort of the antithesis of my GRiSO.
It's nice to have choices... :bike-037:
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I had a 650 BSA that made a "death rattle" right before the crankshaft welded its self to a failed main bearing :shocked:
Dusty
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My BSA ran the best it ever did in the few minutes before the center third of the conrod beat me over the Montana border. I even thought to myself "Wow -- this thing runs GREAT! How long can it last?" Then I found out. DEATH RATTLE CONTENT: I could hear the engine bits rattling down the road after the bike went silent.
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Yep .
At least the BSA's gave us warning , I had a hot rod Triumph that went BANG , then silence :shocked: :laugh:
Dusty
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Yep .
At least the BSA's gave us warning , I had a hot rod Triumph that went BANG , then silence :shocked: :laugh:
Dusty
The hot rod Triumph I built is currently the fastest stock naked frame Triumph in the world, it hasn't blowed up :cool:...And the BSA trying to go faster ripped it's cylinders from the crankcase.....The BSA actually has a better head design...
Harley needs to take on the completion, not hide behind 10 versions of the same basic bike ...There will always be a market for Big Twins ,just not as big as now
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It was an excellent explanation.
I have had several debates years ago with my SAE friends about that problem and its more complicated than it looks...
We never did come to an agreement.
Hadn't thought of that problem in very long time.
If you're referring to the "Where will the Ball Stop" question - :grin:
In actuality, you'd have to add in friction from:
1) Air resistance, which would always act opposite the direction of motion, as opposed to gravity, which always operates toward the center, and thus sometimes in the direction of motion and sometimes opposite ...
and
2) Friction with the sides of the hole. In a stationary sphere, not a factor - in a rotating sphere, the ball starts out with an angular velocity component equal to that of the surface of the earth. As it falls, that initial component is retained by the ball, but the angular velocity of the "hole" decreases, and thus the ball would "rub" against the side. If (like air) you assume no friction in the basic problem, then it doesn't affect anything. If you DO assume friction against the side ....
Then the falling object eventually stops at the center of the earth.
Lannis
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Interesting article.
I am sorry for those HD employees that lost their job.
Electric motorcycle?
I am not interested , if the new crowd will like them , good for them.
My formula is an aicooled engine and carbs .
I am a simple guy. :laugh:
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I have owned a 92 1200 Sportster and a 2006 Wide Glide. I enjoyed trouble free riding from both. I think that RK is a beautiful beast. My 30 year old son however, does not see HD as relevant. He makes good money and could buy an HD if he wanted, but bought a Kawi Versus used. He graduated college in the teeth of the last recession and is pretty careful with money now. Many of his classmates who graduated from 2008 to 2014 are the same way and with their loans, few have money to even think about a used bike much less a new bike especially when they start at $20,000. I believe many people his age see the HD as nostalgic, but not in the good way that people of our generation do. They simply see it as another choice, one they can't afford or if they could would not want.
I grieve for the loss of good paying jobs at the closed plant. But, if the mellenials view HD in the way just described and will not be able to afford one until they are in their 40s, then I see a big problem. The Japanese makers have the millions of under 100 cc bikes they sell every year in the 3rd world and Asia to support them, but HD does not have such supports. "I've got a bad feeling about this" - Han Solo.
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But this business model has worked so well for Guzzi for the last decade. Exciting new paint schemes on the same frame from 5 decades ago.
Yes...But Guzzi is a very small manufacturer with a dedicated following that has remained steady through the years?
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Yes...But Guzzi is a very small manufacturer with a dedicated following that has remained steady through the years?
As the old saying goes..."Moto Guzzi...going out of business since 1921!!"
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nvFf0c/Screen_Shot_2018_02_06_at_5_59_01_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/nvFf0c)
upload photos (http://imgbb.com/)
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Just about any other MFG would do whatever they could to get HD's sales, buyer loyalty, and brand awareness.
They are not going anywhere. The entire industry is hurting. Most will fall WAY before HD does.
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What the article did was mock the old way of doing business while ridiculing the strategy to get past the inertia.
All industries and all businesses must evolve or die. HD is no different. Could you imagine using kerosene lamps in 2018 simply because electricity is silly?
kerosene lamps enthusiasts hoping that the new electric bulb will look, operate and even smell like a kerosene lamp is equally silly to me.
If HD or Guzzi make an electric bike, please don't make something that resembles a V twin internal combustion engine in the chassis/frame
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kerosene lamps enthusiasts hoping that the new electric bulb will look, operate and even smell like a kerosene lamp is equally silly to me.
If HD or Guzzi make an electric bike, please don't make something that resembles a V twin internal combustion engine in the chassis/frame
:laugh: :grin: :wink: :thumb:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/b2nSfc/Screen_Shot_2018_02_06_at_6_39_41_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/b2nSfc)
free upload without registration (http://imgbb.com/)
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OK, first off, that OP-ED piece is just someone who's hated Harleys and is jumping at the chance to "get his licks in."
I be he kicks people when they're down too.
I despise people like that. No class at all, and what's worse, he whines about a problem, but doesn't offer any sort of solution.
Is HD in trouble? Sorta. The union contract with the KC plant was coming up. Sales and profits are down. HD corporate had to make some changes to keep the business alive. That said, I see two things they could address...
#1 - Offer an entry-level bike. The Sportster isn't a bad bike, but at $7-8K, it's not a cheap starter bike. The Street series of bikes was supposed to fill that niche, and failed. The build quality sucked on the initial offering, and while it's been fixed, too little too late, the damage is done. It's also only a thousand less than a "Made in 'Murica" Sportster.
So, HD, rename the Street, cut the price to $3500-4000 out the door. Offer some incentives for the first year or two to get them out on the road. That will start the next generation of Harley riders.
#2 - Learn from the mistake that was the Street and when you release your electric bike, do it right! No sloppy assembly, no cheesy plastic parts in critical places, good fit and finish. But then offer it as a modular machine. $6-8K for the base package, but make it upgradable with extra battery packs.
Electric bikes are coming, and if they get to the point that I could ride one round trip to and from work, 40 miles of hills each way, and still have a decent power reserve left, yes, I'd buy one.
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I believe the aging riders have been discussed previously here and elsewhere ? It was the end of Harley in the late 70's because of poor quality and the flood of big Asian bikes...It was the death of Harley around 1950 because of the lighter faster British bikes flooding into the country. Harley even filed an unfair trade deal and lost...Was it back around 1920 when Harley was figured to fold because of Indian ?
Will HD rise from the ashes one more time? I say yes..
This is from Red Rock HD in Las Vegas a few weekends ago...lots of inventory here! Beautiful dealership! :1: :cool: :thumb:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hQvQkc/IMG_5170.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hQvQkc)
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OK, first off, that OP-ED piece is just someone who's hated Harleys and is jumping at the chance to "get his licks in."
I be he kicks people when they're down too.
I despise people like that. No class at all, and what's worse, he whines about a problem, but doesn't offer any sort of solution.
Called "journalism" these days. The article was amazingly successful. People are reading it, posting about it, discussing it. He hit every goal.
Look at ANY of the MSM these days, and they're doing the same thing. Be shocking, be something that people argue about and get passionate about; get your agenda forwarded, and **** the truth or anything useful ....
Lannis
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Let me make this perfectly clear , we are not going down "The MSN is lying to us" rabbit hole . Clear enough fellas . This article has nothing to do with MSN , and associating the two is a huuuugggge stretch .
Dusty
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If electric bikes are anything like my experience with cordless tools it'll go like this:
Season 1. Use it ten times. Think it's the greatest thing in the world.
Season 2. Try to use it but it's dead so it needs to be charged up. By the time it's charged up it's raining and I don't wanna use it anymore.
Season 3. Plan ahead and charge it up. Go to use it and discover it's still dead and needs a new battery. Go to dealer, learn that they've obsoleted the battery by coming out with a new one that holds an extra 2 volts. New battery requires new charger. The whole shootin' match costs more than a new bike which, unsurprisingly, is in stock and comes with a two year warranty.
Season 4. Go back to the old way of doing things.
Some people thinks carbs are unreliable. I tossed all my cordless power tools a few years ago and haven't been happier. I sure hope H-D isn't planning on selling me an electric bike.
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I tossed all my cordless power tools a few years ago and haven't been happier.
Cordless tools have only been getting better. Hell we've got a cordless leaf blower, hedge trimmer etc.
Decent stuff.
Oh, not HD, but hmmmm:
https://www.facebook.com/MotoGP/videos/10156556174300769/
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If electric bikes are anything like my experience with cordless tools it'll go like this:
Season 1. Use it ten times. Think it's the greatest thing in the world.
Season 2. Try to use it but it's dead so it needs to be charged up. By the time it's charged up it's raining and I don't wanna use it anymore.
Season 3. Plan ahead and charge it up. Go to use it and discover it's still dead and needs a new battery. Go to dealer, learn that they've obsoleted the battery by coming out with a new one that holds an extra 2 volts. New battery requires new charger. The whole shootin' match costs more than a new bike which, unsurprisingly, is in stock and comes with a two year warranty.
Season 4. Go back to the old way of doing things.
Some people thinks carbs are unreliable. I tossed all my cordless power tools a few years ago and haven't been happier. I sure hope H-D isn't planning on selling me an electric bike.
I used to feel the same way about electric starters on bikes. I got over it.
I keep saying in these 'lectrification discussions that NOTHING significant can happen until battery technology is improved and standards set for battery sizes and terminals -- just like AA, AA, C and D cells are all standard. Until this happens all electric vehicles are operating under the threat of becoming instantly obsolete when the standards do happen. That's the side of automotive history I don't want to be on.
The battery issue is universal. It's not a Harley issue and it's not a Tessla issue. The way to increasing electric vehicle range is to hot-swap batteries at fueling stations. That can't happen without standardization.
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I believe there will always be a market for internal-combustion Harley-Davidson motorcycles, at least in the United States, and at least as long as internal-combustion motorcycles are allowed on the roads. The market may be small, but it will exist.
The key for Harley-Davidson will be to downsize, reduce debt, and make a profit on lower volume. Theoretically, it can be done (possibly with the help of a bankruptcy filing).
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I used to feel the same way about electric starters on bikes. I got over it.
I keep saying in these 'lectrification discussions that NOTHING significant can happen until battery technology is improved and standards set for battery sizes and terminals -- just like AA, AA, C and D cells are all standard. Until this happens all electric vehicles are operating under the threat of becoming instantly obsolete when the standards do happen. That's the side of automotive history I don't want to be on.
The battery issue is universal. It's not a Harley issue and it's not a Tessla issue. The way to increasing electric vehicle range is to hot-swap batteries at fueling stations. That can't happen without standardization.
I have no intention of ever "getting over" my issues with bad designs or poor reliability. No thanks, I'll let everyone else be beta testers.
Standardization limits innovation.
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I have no intention of ever "getting over" my issues with bad designs or poor reliability. No thanks, I'll let everyone else be beta testers.
Standardization limits innovation.
I agree about standardization. Nothing has limited innovation over the last millennium like standardization. Units of measure, nuts and bolts, tooling, service voltages..... The list is endless. Technology surged forward in the years before Sam Colt standardized his factory. Since then, innovation and production has gone into the dumper. I long for the days when we were free to cut our own threads to whatever pitch our whims dictated. When no other product or parts were compatible with mine because I marched to my own drummer. Ah, the good old days!
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Meanwhile...at the HD Museum... :laugh: :grin: :wink: :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eUNETx/Screen_Shot_2018_02_06_at_3_12_53_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/eUNETx)
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Cordless tools have only been getting better. Hell we've got a cordless leaf blower, hedge trimmer etc.
Decent stuff.
Oh, not HD, but hmmmm:
https://www.facebook.com/MotoGP/videos/10156556174300769/
When longer lasting higher power cord less tools came around in the 1990's it changed construction like the hydraulic man lifts did years before...
I really like the lighter weight lithium battery tools...
Electric car or bike? Not for me... two years ago I bought my first vehicle made in this century, 03 Chevy truck...
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I hope not. It would be a very sad day...
I have my eye on a new Road King, with wire wheels, white wall tires, hard bags that open and close easily and do not leak, a removable windscreen... Sort of like this one:
(https://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my18/touring/road-king/gallery/dom/road-king-gallery-6.jpg?impolicy=myresize&rw=1137)
Beautiful machine. I really enjoy my Road King.
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Some of you guys missed the point of the article. It has nothing to do with a shortage of gasoline. It has all to do with the weight of Harleys, the age of their buyers/owners, the image of HDs and the sound of HDs. Like many of us most HDs are too heavy as we age and no electric MC is going to have that potato, potato sound. Neither are electric bike riders going to have that macho image. All these things are essential for HD to prosper on.
I exercise 3 hours a day to make sure I am strong enough to continue to ride.
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Odd.
In all my years in motorcycling I've never seen a Harley-Davidson dealer (of NEW bikes) that also had new bikes of other manufacturers, Japanese or otherwise. I always assumed they were prohibited by contract per H-D, but I never asked.
I have seen USED bikes in a Harley dealership that were not Harleys.
I've seen Kawasaki with Harley quite a lot around the country. I believe they only sold side by sides, ATV, and watercraft from the Kawasaki line though. They did keep separate entrances.
Indian requires a separate entrance at the multi-manufacturer dealers.
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Cordless tools have only been getting better. Hell we've got a cordless leaf blower, hedge trimmer etc.
Decent stuff.
Oh, not HD, but hmmmm:
https://www.facebook.com/MotoGP/videos/10156556174300769/
I have some Kawasaki cordless tools.
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Cordless tools have only been getting better. Hell we've got a cordless leaf blower, hedge trimmer etc.
Decent stuff.
Oh, not HD, but hmmmm:
https://www.facebook.com/MotoGP/videos/10156556174300769/
Wondered when MotoGP electric bikes would enter into the conversation. Their World Cup was announced today.
Here is the the follow up to the FB trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ZMMPcnNqY
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I love MotoGP E ...............now wasn't that exciting? :rolleyes:
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I've seen Kawasaki with Harley quite a lot around the country. I believe they only sold side by sides, ATV, and watercraft from the Kawasaki line though. They did keep separate entrances.
Indian requires a separate entrance at the multi-manufacturer dealers.
Oh they had the bikes only back then, were intermingled, and one entrance.
I wonder what the layout is at the Indian/Guzzi/Motus/Zero dealer in North Jersey?
Those details may vary by state and agreement.
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Cycle Stop in Rochester has been a HD dealer and Yamaha dealer since at least the early 1980's I believe... Recently they also have Triumph and Kawasaki..
I'm originally from NJ, there was/is a Harley dealer near Newark that sold Yamaha in the 1970's
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Cycle Stop in Rochester has been a HD dealer and Yamaha dealer since at least the early 1980's I believe... Recently they also have Triumph and Kawasaki..
I'm originally from NJ, there was/is a Harley dealer near Newark that sold Yamaha in the 1970's
Off the top of my head I remember visiting Harley/multi-brand dealers in PA (the aforementioned one), TN (Knoxville), and Ohio (Upper Sandusky). All set up a bit differently.
But I'm sure there were more, and I've certainly heard of others.
Yeah they became the exception, not the norm, as Harley sales tripled in a decade or so and they had the strength to force many of their dealers into larger floor-plan, stand alone facilities. But I wouldn't be surprised to see more of them crop up with the downturn of the motorcycle market and slippage of Harley sales.
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Off the top of my head I remember visiting Harley/multi-brand dealers in PA (the aforementioned one), TN (Knoxville), and Ohio (Upper Sandusky). All set up a bit differently.
But I'm sure there were more, and I've certainly heard of others.
Yeah they became the exception, not the norm, as Harley sales tripled in a decade or so and they had the strength to force many of their dealers into larger floor-plan, stand alone facilities. But I wouldn't be surprised to see more of them crop up with the downturn of the motorcycle market and slippage of Harley sales.
And some got around it by building a separate Harley store next door or across the street like what I saw in Pensacola and upstate New York.
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And some got around it by building a separate Harley store next door or across the street like what I saw in Pensacola and upstate New York.
Yup I've seen some like that.
The one in Upper Sandusky Ohio had one building, but separate entrances and a wall between most of the metrics and the Harleys, but the wall opened up at the back near the parts counters.
I always wanted a Harley/Guzzi dealer near me.... maybe Harley/Guzzi/Ducati/Triumph - I'd be the most loyal customer ever.
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Say mister , I like your Harley Guzzi :grin:
Dusty
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And some got around it by building a separate Harley store next door or across the street like what I saw in Pensacola and upstate New York.
The owner of the Pensacola dealer sold his Harley dealership to a group out of New Orleans who owns a string of HD dealers and they sell lots of bikes.
Previous owner of HD dealership continues to run the BMW, Indian, Kawasaki......and MG dealership, though Moto Guzzi presence is down to one bike and "we will order you one" at MSRP.
If anyone is interested, he would probably sell the current business to preserve the profits from the HD sale.
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Say mister , I like your Harley Guzzi :grin:
Dusty
Maybe I should put Guzzi Eagle decals on the RK?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180207/94cf6cf3f33c454e03faaa3336dfb474.jpg)
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Maybe I should put Guzzi Eagle decals on the RK?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180207/94cf6cf3f33c454e03faaa3336dfb474.jpg)
That is a nice Road King! Police Bike!! Guzzi eagles would look cool! Truth be told...I miss my old Road King! :cool: :thumb: It was a good, all around, "open highway" motorcycle! :wink: I would have no issues getting another one...
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nrm4Dx/Yosemite_Ride_7_10_001.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nrm4Dx)
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Maybe I should put Guzzi Eagle decals on the RK?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180207/94cf6cf3f33c454e03faaa3336dfb474.jpg)
Great looking bike Kev, I wouldn't mind to add one to my 'collection' but third bike will not fly :thewife:
Now I understand why people asking me what kind of Harley I ride :)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jQKD6H/20160922_212834.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jQKD6H)
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Great looking bike Kev, I wouldn't mind to add one to my 'collection' but third bike will not fly :thewife:
Now I understand why people asking me what kind of Harley I ride :)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jQKD6H/20160922_212834.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jQKD6H)
Funny....I never get asked that question... :laugh: :grin: :wink:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eT9m8x/IMG_0239.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eT9m8x)
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That is a nice Road King! Police Bike!! Guzzi eagles would look cool! Truth be told...I miss my old Road King! :cool: :thumb: It was a good, all around, "open highway" motorcycle! :wink: I would have no issues getting another one...
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nrm4Dx/Yosemite_Ride_7_10_001.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nrm4Dx)
Yeah, but I'm sure your great white whale is an excellent ride. I totally understand it. Truth be told my RK is a total indulgence as I don't tour as much as I did before a household of kids and a busy wife. But I like having it available, and hell, even a couple hour mid-day ride around here turns into at least 100 miles (of largely straight roads) so no harm.
Great looking bike Kev, I wouldn't mind to add one to my 'collection' but third bike will not fly :thewife:
Now I understand why people asking me what kind of Harley I ride :)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jQKD6H/20160922_212834.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jQKD6H)
Ha ha, the Cal-Vin is quite a looker too, but I get that.
I remember a couple of spontaneous drag races against various Harleys on my Jackal, I always got a thumbs up. And at least one guy on a Softail said "Well, if you had to kick my ass, at least it was Italian" lol.
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QUOTE: Yeah, but I'm sure your great white whale is an excellent ride. I totally understand it.
You don't really appreciate it until you are at least 600 miles or more from home...on the open road. :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/fmU53x/IMG_0042.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fmU53x)
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I hope not. It would be a very sad day...
I have my eye on a new Road King, with wire wheels, white wall tires, hard bags that open and close easily and do not leak, a removable windscreen... Sort of like this one:
(https://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my18/touring/road-king/gallery/dom/road-king-gallery-6.jpg?impolicy=myresize&rw=1137)
You should also take a look at the new Heritage model(s) with the 114 CI motor. Friend of mine who once owned a BMW shop and used to make fun of Harleys is now on his 3rd I believe HD, being the new Heritage model, and says it is an exceptional motorcycle. He has owned a couple of Road Kings pretty similar to what you posted, and the quick detachable windshield was noted as a great feature. Personally I think HD has made big strides in the last 5 or so years on suspension and frames.
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You should also take a look at the new Heritage model(s) with the 114 CI motor. Friend of mine who once owned a BMW shop and used to make fun of Harleys is now on his 3rd I believe HD, being the new Heritage model, and says it is an exceptional motorcycle. He has owned a couple of Road Kings pretty similar to what you posted, and the quick detachable windshield was noted as a great feature. Personally I think HD has made big strides in the last 5 or so years on suspension and frames.
The new Heritage (and most of the new Softails) are a nice step forward in progress for Harley. The motors are robust and reasonably powerful, not ridiculously hot, are smaller and lighter than their predecessors and handle better.
I'm particularly fond of the new Heritage and the new Sport Glide has a lot going for it too.
Though, as strong as the brakes are, I still wish they put duals on them. I can literally haul my RK down from speed with one finger!
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We can hate on Electric bikes all we want (I do), but facts is facts. Writing is on the wall. The death of the internal combustion engine is coming. If companies don't get out in front of it... they're going to be playing catch up.
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I see electric vehicles that recharge by plugging in as part of a trend away from personal power generation to communal power generation. The pendulum is swinging that way now, but the pendulum may very well swing the other way if people desire more personal control.
The fact is, most of the electricity generated in the United States come from burning something. We are not Norway; we do not have the ability to generate much clean electricity from waves in fjords. So we burn things communally (creating communal pollution). Here is a nice chart:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Electricity_Generation_Sources_for_the_United_States.svg/342px-Electricity_Generation_Sources_for_the_United_States.svg.png)
All motor vehicle manufacturers would do well to work on electric vehicles, but I hope internal combustion vehicles will not be banned entirely.
In any event, I plan to enjoy riding motorcycles and scooters that burn fossil fuels as long as I can.
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I see electric vehicles that recharge by plugging in as part of a trend away from personal power generation to communal power generation. The pendulum is swinging that way now, but the pendulum may very well swing the other way if people desire more personal control.
The fact is, most of the electricity generated in the United States come from burning something. We are not Norway; we do not have the ability to generate much clean electricity from waves in fjords. So we burn things communally (creating communal pollution). Here is a nice chart:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Electricity_Generation_Sources_for_the_United_States.svg/342px-Electricity_Generation_Sources_for_the_United_States.svg.png)
All motor vehicle manufacturers would do well to work on electric vehicles, but I hope internal combustion vehicles will not be banned entirely.
In any event, I plan to enjoy riding motorcycles and scooters that burn fossil fuels as long as I can.
The Petroleum Fuel Producers claim it will take several Trillion dollars to replace and clean up the current petroleum fueling locations. All passed on to you and me.
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^ Then we ride while we can and abandon our bikes when we must...
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^ Then we ride while we can and abandon our bikes when we must...
Camels were indigenous to the U.S., now you only see them in cages at a zoo. We will survive. Give me a hoover board and no wheels. Making roads obsolete. Saving trillions on infrastructure. Electric or ICE.
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The Petroleum Fuel Producers claim it will take several Trillion dollars to replace and clean up the current petroleum fueling locations. All passed on to you and me.
now when have the Petro Fuel Producers ever lied to you?
(and why are so many schools in Okla open only 4 days week? is there a connection?)
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now when have the Petro Fuel Producers ever lied to you?
(and why are so many schools in Okla on 4 day week? is there a connection?)
Oh, yeah.. the Ethyl corporation and GM bought scientists that said all that lead in the air was normal. :rolleyes:
The big three said those new fangled disc brakes weren't any good.. and they'd *never* be able to meet CAFE standards.. I could go on, but the thread will get nuked.
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I see electric vehicles that recharge by plugging in as part of a trend away from personal power generation to communal power generation. The pendulum is swinging that way now, but the pendulum may very well swing the other way if people desire more personal control.
The fact is, most of the electricity generated in the United States come from burning something. We are not Norway; we do not have the ability to generate much clean electricity from waves in fjords. So we burn things communally (creating communal pollution). Here is a nice chart:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Electricity_Generation_Sources_for_the_United_States.svg/342px-Electricity_Generation_Sources_for_the_United_States.svg.png)
All motor vehicle manufacturers would do well to work on electric vehicles, but I hope internal combustion vehicles will not be banned entirely.
In any event, I plan to enjoy riding motorcycles and scooters that burn fossil fuels as long as I can.
And here I thought all our lectricity came from jelly bean fields! :boozing:
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And here I thought all our lectricity came from jelly bean fields! :boozing:
I must have missed something...I thought all electricity came from here: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IojqOMWTgv8
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I am not a fan of windshields on bikes. I like to run my Road King stripped down. Not as stripped down as the first pic though. :wink:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dvo8ac/2017_06_11_Road_King.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dvo8ac)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kp9EFc/2016_10_15_Road_King_001.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kp9EFc)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/b5E38x/2016_10_15_Road_King_005.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b5E38x)
web img (http://imgbb.com/)
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HD has produced a bike (The Road King e.g.) for the major part of the US, wide open relatively flat with straight(ish) highways. They will always have a market until a new set of mountains rise up just West of the Mississippi River and East of the Rockies. They have adapted pretty well over the past hundred, I suspect they will yet again.
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Orange Guzzi wrote :
Camels were indigenous to the U.S., now you only see them in cages at a zoo. We will survive.
WHAT ?!?! I don't think that is right. Maybe some ancient ancestor... or were you thinking of this guy...
(https://www.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/animals/thumbs/rights-exempt/mammals/a/american-bison_thumb.JPG)
P.S. Not a camel :grin:
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Camels were indigenous to North America and migrated across the Bering land bridge into Asia then South .
Dusty
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Camels were indigenous to North America and migrated across the Bering land bridge into Asia then South .
Dusty
Is this supposed to be a joke or who taught you that, some tree hugger?
On that pie chart is the 2.6% solar generation?
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^ http://www.history.com/news/giant-ancient-camel-roamed-the-arctic (http://www.history.com/news/giant-ancient-camel-roamed-the-arctic)
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I am not a fan of windshields on bikes. I like to run my Road King stripped down. Not as stripped down as the first pic though. :wink:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kp9EFc/2016_10_15_Road_King_001.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kp9EFc)
A man after my own heart! We have the same Road King (I bought it just because I loved the silver/blue, but that Milwaukee Eight motor is phenomenal). Looks like you have a Road Glide Ultra at the end of the line . . . but mine is two-tone red . . . not the blue.
On Day 1 with a new Road King, the windshield is removed and hung on the wall. When I gave away my 2007 Road King, its windshield was still brand new (and my friend always rides it with the shield, so he's happy).
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Camels were indigenous to North America and migrated across the Bering land bridge into Asia then South .
Dusty
They were a separate species from the types of Asian camels and faded out as the last ice age began warming, in part of a minor global extinction event. Back when we covered it in school the jury was out as to what made them extinct -- the introduction of people, or climate change. North American camels were shy, but if you look close you can see one hiding behind the one on the cigarette box.
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Trippah, though that's all true, I'd note that the RK dances reasonably well in the mountains for a bike of it's size. Like the Cali 1400 it may surprise those who assume it can't.
I am not a fan of windshields on bikes. I like to run my Road King stripped down. Not as stripped down as the first pic though. :wink:
Ya know it's funny. I always liked that ability with the RK, though I found I generally ran mine with a smaller shield instead of totally stripped.
However, on my current RK I found myself in a dilemma. The police seat is so comfortable that I don't want to change it out. But the seat puts me a good 2-3" higher to a point where my 32" inseam is not quite flat foot at stops and my legs are straighter and more below me than on any other big tourer I've ever ridden.
So here's the problem, without the shield, once I'm above say 50 mph, I have to physically hang on to the bars because of the wind and the seating position. I've never experienced that on a Harley or similar bike before. But my lower body can't help.
And since there's almost no such thing as "local" riding in the pines where you remain below that speed for any length of time, a windshield (at least a short one, but often the full shield) is my choice on this one.
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Kev, I don't bash Harley as a bike, you know why? I have never ridden a Harley other than the several Shovelheads I owned many years ago..I suspect, that the vast majority, but not all, people who put down Harleys have never ridden one...
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Kev, I don't bash Harley as a bike, you know why? I have never ridden a Harley other than the several Shovelheads I owned many years ago..I suspect, that the vast majority, but not all, people who put down Harleys have never ridden one...
I've often found that to be true, or they rode one (usually one of the lowered models with limited clearance and maybe true forward controls) and base everything on that.
Some years back when I was still living in PA we had lots of little twisty roads which snaked back and forth along some small creeks and rivers (including the Brandywine Creek). A number of the bridges were old and tiny one car deals, with steep ramps up and off them.
I remember one time driving somewhere with Jenn and our then new baby, so I was taking it particularly easy when a Harley dresser came up behind me. No biggie, as I figured he'd pass the first change he got.
We were snaking through a series of 2-3 S curves which crossed and recrossed some railroad tracks and then went right up onto one of these one-lane bridges. It was long and steep enough that you couldn't see anything on the other side without pulling to the side and watching for oncoming traffic on the road behind the bridge.
But this still wouldn't tell you if someone was already on the ramp on the other side, so most people stopped here and waited a second or two. If you saw no traffic approaching the bridge beyond and the front end of a car/truck didn't appear on the bridge in the next second or two you'd be reasonably sure no-one was approaching. You'd then proceed, but still with caution for obvious reasons.
That is unless you were that Harley dresser. As soon as I pulled to the side to check for oncoming traffic he gunned it, up the ramp he flew, and I could barely believe my eyes as that 700-800# monster caught air on the break-over at the end of the ramp landing on the bridge at WOT. He may have caught air again coming off the other side, I couldn't see.
I'm happy to say he got lucky that day as there was no traffic coming the other way.
:shocked:
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Kev, I don't bash Harley as a bike, you know why? I have never ridden a Harley other than the several Shovelheads I owned many years ago..I suspect, that the vast majority, but not all, people who put down Harleys have never ridden one...
Owned two Harley's, changed oil and of course added gas. Put about 40,000 miles on the two bikes and never had a maintenance issue.
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Owned two Harley's, changed oil and of course added gas. Put about 40,000 miles on the two bikes and never had a maintenance issue.
Over the years, I have owned and ridden four (4) Big Twin Harley's with >125,000 miles combined...
1988 FLH-S & 1992 FLH-S, (Electra Glide Sport), 1994 and 2007 FLHR Road Kings....
During that time, I replaced tires, batteries, 1 stater, and no other major maintenance issues.
Modern Harley's are excellent road bikes, overall. :thumb:
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Is this supposed to be a joke or who taught you that, some tree hugger?
On that pie chart is the 2.6% solar generation?
Wayne , have you ever read a book ?
Dusty
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Wayne , have you ever read a book ?
Dusty
"Camel-Breath..." :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes: :laugh: :grin: :wink:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cuFrVc/Screen_Shot_2018_02_09_at_8_07_32_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/cuFrVc)
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Kev, I don't bash Harley as a bike, you know why? I have never ridden a Harley other than the several Shovelheads I owned many years ago..I suspect, that the vast majority, but not all, people who put down Harleys have never ridden one...
Three Harleys for me, from three different generations - '54 Panhead rigid handshift FLE dresser, a '65 ElectraGlide dresser, and an '84 last-year Shovelhead first-year belt final drive ElectraGlide Classic.
All were fun, all met my expectations, and the easy-fix parts-available characteristics were nice. It's by no means anything about the bikes themselves that keeps me away from them these days.
Lannis
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I saw on the news today that HD just announced a recall on 251,000 bikes for a brake fluid flush on ABS equipped tour models. From what I read I think it is absurd to expect the manufacturer to change fluid on 10 year old bikes but never the less its going to happen. Probably going to cost the Motor Company somewhere near 50 million $$$$$$. Ouch!!!!
Tim
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Three Harleys for me, from three different generations - '54 Panhead rigid handshift FLE dresser, a '65 ElectraGlide dresser, and an '84 last-year Shovelhead first-year belt final drive ElectraGlide Classic.
All were fun, all met my expectations, and the easy-fix parts-available characteristics were nice. It's by no means anything about the bikes themselves that keeps me away from them these days.
Lannis
Yes, and despite all the Brit bike bashing, you do ride an A10 long distances ... I built my Shovelheads and they did not leak oil or fall apart..But like a Brit Bike, you needed to do some maintenance on schedule...
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I saw on the news today that HD just announced a recall on 251,000 bikes for a brake fluid flush on ABS equipped tour models. From what I read I think it is absurd to expect the manufacturer to change fluid on 10 year old bikes but never the less its going to happen. Probably going to cost the Motor Company somewhere near 50 million $$$$$$. Ouch!!!!
Tim
So here's the problem as I see it.
Let's be honest, even though many manufacturers now require brake fluid flushes, MANY MANY people don't do it with any frequency (I'd say the vast majority of bike and auto/truck owners ignore this or at LEAST push it off to much longer intervals).
BUT, that doesn't cause mass failures in most cases. Whether we're talking BMW, Ducati, Guzzi or Chevy, Nissan, Fiat.
However, it looks like for whatever reason, on these late-model Harleys with ABS there have been a number of failures to the system (I'm assuming modulator related) that cause problems which rise to the level of NHTSA recall involvement.
And though I generally defend Harley against unreasonable expectations or accusations, I'm not taking their side on this one.
You can't sell a motor vehicle in this day and age that may crash if the owner doesn't change the brake fluid every 2 years. That's unreasonable in my eyes.
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Any chance it's a supplier issue and can be back billed at lease in part?
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Yes, and despite all the Brit bike bashing, you do ride an A10 long distances ... I built my Shovelheads and they did not leak oil or fall apart..But like a Brit Bike, you needed to do some maintenance on schedule...
To ride any older bike long distances, you have to make sure it's right, and you have to do regular maintenance for issues driven by its design and how it's used.
As far as I can tell, 95% of "Harley" motorcycle and "Old Brit" motorcycle bashing and spreading of urban legend is done by folks who do not recognize that fact, or who do recognize it and aren't willing to do the necessary work to make it happen. It would be nice if people would say "It's just not my thing to spend the time and effort necessary to ride a BSA across the country" rather than say "Old BSAs are just crap and you can't really ride them anywhere." Or "Panheads will just rattle themselves apart and shed bits going down the highway". You can have a great time and travel all across the country on a '69 Rocket III or a '65 Electra-Glide, and (believe me) while you're doing it, you're just about the only one out there .... ! And people saying "You're doing WHAT .... on THAT?!?! is half the fun ....
Lannis
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Who cares if they really are good bikes? They are by far the most popular, for any number of reasons, many of which have little if anything to do with how "good" they really are. And because they are as common as flies on poop, I love to make fun of them, and many of the dip shots who ride them.
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Who cares if they really are good bikes? They are by far the most popular, for any number of reasons, many of which have little if anything to do with how "good" they really are. And because they are as common as flies on poop, I love to make fun of them, and many of the dip shots who ride them.
You know, for the record, that would make someone look petty and small, in a way not all that dis-similar to the "dip shots" who ride them. Just saying... :boozing:
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Who cares if they really are good bikes? They are by far the most popular, for any number of reasons, many of which have little if anything to do with how "good" they really are. And because they are as common as flies on poop, I love to make fun of them, and many of the dip shots who ride them.
totally agree. :evil:
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You know, for the record, that would make someone look petty and small, in a way not all that dis-similar to the "dip shots" who ride them. Just saying... :boozing:
No, I don't think so. I made a distinction as to the riders with the distinction word, "Many" as opposed to all. However, you my good friend would certainly have to fall into the "Many" category! :boozing: :wink:
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No, I don't think so. I made a distinction as to the riders with the distinction word, "Many" as opposed to all. However, you my good friend would certainly have to fall into the "Many" category! :boozing: :wink:
Let's see you love to poke fun at machines and people at least partially because they are popular/common, and regardless if they are good machines or not (at least that's how you stated it).
Yeah, that doesn't speak well...
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I have to admit, these "little" Harleys sound pretty good. :grin:
https://www.cycleworld.com/my-first-time-racing-harley-davidson-and-i-won?CMPID=ene020818
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I tried out one of the new Road Glides. The Milwaukee-8 engine is nice and the new frames are just as good as Kev said. Still too heavy for me, though. I liked the �04-�06 Sportsters pretty well...the EVO Dyna Low Rider Sport was pretty cool, too (1992?).
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^ http://www.history.com/news/giant-ancient-camel-roamed-the-arctic (http://www.history.com/news/giant-ancient-camel-roamed-the-arctic)
This isn't proof, it's an extrapolation, a theory. :rolleyes:
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They were a separate species from the types of Asian camels and faded out as the last ice age began warming, in part of a minor global extinction event. Back when we covered it in school the jury was out as to what made them extinct -- the introduction of people, or climate change. North American camels were shy, but if you look close you can see one hiding behind the one on the cigarette box.
I'm about 10 years older than you and they didn't teach this kind of stuff then. I took some cultural anthropology classes in college and never heard anything like this. Camels have been imported here for the Army during both WWI & WWII, I know that.
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Then how do you explain all of the camel (camelop) bones found in the Americas that have been carbon dated ? Facts Wayne , facts , damn pesky devils .
Dusty
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Wayne , have you ever read a book ?
Dusty
Naw, don't know how I earned a AA in Social Science and a BA in Business/Marketing. Just got lucky I guess. :huh:
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Then how do you explain all of the camel (camelop) bones found in the Americas that have been carbon dated ? Facts Wayne , facts , damn pesky devils .
Dusty
Show me the proof, Dusty.
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https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2516
http://www.nature.ca/en/about-us/museum-news/news/press-releases/remains-extinct-giant-camel-discovered-high-arctic-canadian
The citation was peer reviewed.
Rybczynski, N. et al. Mid-Pliocene warm-period deposits in the high arctic yield insight into camel evolution. Nat. Commun. 4:1550 doi: 10.1038/ncomms2516 (2013).
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"Hogged" the roads today for some 165 miles.
No death rattle, just some happy tunes through the stock pipes I put back on.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/icdqOx/IMG_20180209_170439396.jpg) (http://ibb.co/icdqOx)
Only ran out of road twice
(http://thumb.ibb.co/everVc/IMG_20180209_165530614_HDR.jpg) (http://ibb.co/everVc)
When we ride only for ourselves, there are a lot of great choices.
... I'd like to have a Moto Morini Camel one day. Just sayin' :afro:
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Thanks Yukonica, that was fascinating. here are some pics for those who don't wan't to read.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f-1ZjuGe8eY/UUyaWkgX5II/AAAAAAAADd0/xm2w1RCFMnk/s1600/Tama%C3%B1o+del+camello+de+Ellesmere_wm.jpg)
(https://pcppire.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/tumblr_m66l2lnswy1qkd7h4o2_1280.jpg)
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Going a tiny bit off topic here, but I don't see another thread coming up any time soon where it would be appropriate to share.
My wifes friend has an Alpaca ( related to the extinct NA camel).
I learned it is frowned upon to ask "Hey, so what the F**k is up with your goat ?"
(http://hdwarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Nice-Alpaca.jpg)
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MPN NEWS, JANUARY, 2018 Harley's reaction to the market slowdown was to announce they are taking on the mission of training 2 million new riders and introducing 50 new bikes over the next five years and 100 bikes by 2027.
I would say they are going for a whole new gasoline engine configuration and an Electric platform. Smaller size and larger range of configurations. Sport, sport touring, scooters and street & trail. The articles also say's they want to expand their international sales by 50%. Every 11 days more motorcycles are sold outside the U.S. than sold in the U.S. in a year of all brands. Time will tell. They have the money, technology and ability to move beyond their dying niche. Bring back the Buell single cylinder Blast. I love to beat around on mine. Gets 50 mpg, quick, light and a great city bike.
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I'm about 10 years older than you and they didn't teach this kind of stuff then. I took some cultural anthropology classes in college and never heard anything like this. Camels have been imported here for the Army during both WWI & WWII, I know that.
I keep telling you, Randy -- I can't help what you don't know. There's just too much of it. :cry:
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Apparently you guys are easily swayed. I see no evidence here to prove camels lived in these areas hundreds of years ago. All I see is 'estimates' and 'perhaps' claims, just like I said. This is not good enough for PROOF. :tongue:
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Apparently you guys are easily swayed. I see no evidence here to prove camels lived in these areas hundreds of years ago. All I see is 'estimates' and 'perhaps' claims, just like I said. This is not good enough for PROOF. :tongue:
So camel bones that carbon date to 10,000 years and older found in North America don't convince you that camels lived here ? Not hundreds Randy , thousands . There are even camel bones that bear tool marks , indicating that they were still around even after man migrated to North America some 13,000 years ago .
Dusty
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So camel bones that carbon date to 10,000 years and older found in North America don't convince you that camels lived here ? Not hundreds Randy , thousands . There are even camel bones that bear tool marks , indicating that they were still around even after man migrated to North America some 13,000 years ago .
Dusty
So camel bones that carbon date to 10,000 years and older found in North America don't convince you that camels lived here ? Not hundreds Randy , thousands . There are even camel bones that bear tool marks , indicating that they were still around even after man migrated to North America some 13,000 years ago .
Dusty
Talk is cheap, Dusty, show me your source of what you claim.
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Talk is cheap, Dusty, show me your source of what you claim.
Randy , others have posted the links , I won't repeat them . Here is what you can do however , visit the museum of natural history right there in Arizona and look at the bones yourself .
Dusty
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Randy, you're being a troll. If you need more proof, search on "north American camel". You'll learn something.
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Randy , others have posted the links , I won't repeat them . Here is what you can do however , visit the museum of natural history right there in Arizona and look at the bones yourself .
Dusty
I read the links and posted accordingly. Do you guys not know how to think for yourselves? :sad:
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I read the links and posted accordingly. Do you guys not know how to think for yourselves? :sad:
So you are smarter and have more expertise on this subject than the anthropologists and scientists who have spent their lives studying these things ?
Dusty
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So you are smarter and have more expertise on this subject than the anthropologists and scientists who have spent their lives studying these things ?
Dusty
No, but what I read none of them claimed to have all the answers to explain exactly what they THINK occurred hundreds of years before any of us were here. So I see their opinions at this point as theoretical, not proof. But if you want to accept it as proof, go ahead. Just don't assume me and everybody else agrees with you. This won't be the 1st time archeologists/anthropoligists are wrong about how things occurred in the past. :azn:
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No, but what I read none of them claimed to have all the answers to explain exactly what they THINK occurred hundreds of years before any of us were here. So I see their opinions at this point as theoretical, not proof. But if you want to accept it as proof, go ahead. Just don't assume me and everybody else agrees with you. This won't be the 1st time archeologists/anthropoligists are wrong about how things occurred in the past. :azn:
Obviously you didn't read any of the links , because you keep saying hundreds of years . The experts say the camelops disappeared around 10,000 years ago from North America , not 100's of years . I'm guessing you don't believe the fossil evidence of dinosaurs either . I think we should close this discussion out , as it isn't getting us anywhere .
Dusty
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Going a tiny bit off topic here, but I don't see another thread coming up any time soon where it would be appropriate to share.
My wifes friend has an Alpaca ( related to the extinct NA camel).
I learned it is frowned upon to ask "Hey, so what the F**k is up with your goat ?"
(http://hdwarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Nice-Alpaca.jpg)
:bow:
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(http://findtattoodesign.com/images/idea/cute-camel-hilhouette-toe-small.jpg)
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You're wrong. You just wanted to find a way to make me look like I didn't know what I was talking about. I said hundreds because saying thousands of years is preposterous. For you or anyone else now to talk about what happened here that long ago is ridiculous. Knowing that long ago is theoretical, period at this point in time.
Now I'm convinced both you and Rodekyll are like Siamese twins whose only purpose in life here is to make me look like an imbicile not to be considered worthy of listened to since Rk and I had a falling out last May at my place. Like I said prior, I have no respect for either of you now. If all this time you've wanted me to say this, you've got it.
Randy, one thing I am certain of in life is that you don't need any help looking like an imbecile.
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I read the first page, get to the end & off topic much?
Think I’d go audace... or however you spell it
Keep stirring, :popcorn:
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HD has produced a bike (The Road King e.g.) for the major part of the US, wide open relatively flat with straight(ish) highways. They will always have a market until a new set of mountains rise up just West of the Mississippi River and East of the Rockies. They have adapted pretty well over the past hundred, I suspect they will yet again.
I live in the curves and the Road King does fine in the curves. I can take any curves above the speed limit. No, I can't take them at double the speed limit like an SS bike can, but I wouldn't anyway so no point in owning an SS bike.
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So here's the problem as I see it.
Let's be honest, even though many manufacturers now require brake fluid flushes, MANY MANY people don't do it with any frequency (I'd say the vast majority of bike and auto/truck owners ignore this or at LEAST push it off to much longer intervals).
BUT, that doesn't cause mass failures in most cases. Whether we're talking BMW, Ducati, Guzzi or Chevy, Nissan, Fiat.
However, it looks like for whatever reason, on these late-model Harleys with ABS there have been a number of failures to the system (I'm assuming modulator related) that cause problems which rise to the level of NHTSA recall involvement.
And though I generally defend Harley against unreasonable expectations or accusations, I'm not taking their side on this one.
You can't sell a motor vehicle in this day and age that may crash if the owner doesn't change the brake fluid every 2 years. That's unreasonable in my eyes.
With Harley ABS bikes you have to use a diagnostic tool to open the valves in the ABS unit in order to flush / change the fluid properly. So, guys who think they are changing the fluid, aren't if they don't use the diagnostic tool.
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A man after my own heart! We have the same Road King (I bought it just because I loved the silver/blue, but that Milwaukee Eight motor is phenomenal). Looks like you have a Road Glide Ultra at the end of the line . . . but mine is two-tone red . . . not the blue.
On Day 1 with a new Road King, the windshield is removed and hung on the wall. When I gave away my 2007 Road King, its windshield was still brand new (and my friend always rides it with the shield, so he's happy).
I had the Road Glide Ultra first and chose the blue road king so I could move the tour pack over for longer rides in the summer when it is too hot to be behind a full fairing.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eUe7O7/026_Road_King.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eUe7O7)
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You know, for the record, that would make someone look petty and small, in a way not all that dis-similar to the "dip shots" who ride them. Just saying... :boozing:
Not unlike the people who "hate" Tom Brady because he is a winning quarterback with a supermodel wife. :wink:
When reporters asked people why they hated the Pats and Tom Brady in particular they couldn't give a response without looking petty. People tend to hate anyone/anything that is on top.
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What is nor disputed is there was a species of western camel that lived in north America up to 10,000 years ago and became extinct. How closely related it is to the eastern Camel (the ones we are familiar with) is in dispute. From what I have read it is more closely related to Alpacas, Llamas, and Guanacos.
Camels lived here, sure. Is the Camel as we know it today indigenous to North America ? I have not seen any proof of that.
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What is nor disputed is there was a species of western camel that lived in north America up to 10,000 years ago and became extinct. How closely related it is to the eastern Camel (the ones we are familiar with) is in dispute. From what I have read it is more closely related to Alpacas, Llamas, and Guanacos.
Camels lived here, sure. Is the Camel as we know it today indigenous to North America ? I have not seen any proof of that.
There will most likely still be a Harley Davidson brand, but most likely not indigenous to North America. It will be imported from China, Viet Nam, India or Pakistan. They are going to go for the world market using their boutique name and low cost small displacement units. The V twin will not be dead, but subsidized with the World wide platform. Their only option. Depending on the U.S. market of clothing lines and large displacement units to keep them solvent obviously is not working.
Who would of thought that camels would have caused such thread drift and animosity? Winter better end soon so the shut ends can ride. Or at least go to the garage and sit on your bike and make engine noises. Me, I have a date with my Daughter today. We are going to the circus for the 18th year in a row. Always fun and there will have motorcycle stunt riders.
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Who would of thought that camels would have caused such thread drift and animosity? Winter better end soon so the shut ends can ride. Or at least go to the garage and sit on your bike and make engine noises.
Personally, I think the snippy exchanges contained in this thread area a set-up; a plot hatched by the 3 or 4 worst offenders to demonstrate to the rest of us unwashed, or barely washed, readers what NOT to do/say on a discussion page that tries to be informative and friendly...
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No, I don't think so. I made a distinction as to the riders with the distinction word, "Many" as opposed to all. However, you my good friend would certainly have to fall into the "Many" category! :boozing: :wink:
I spat out my drink when I read that.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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What is nor disputed is there was a species of western camel that lived in north America up to 10,000 years ago and became extinct. How closely related it is to the eastern Camel (the ones we are familiar with) is in dispute. From what I have read it is more closely related to Alpacas, Llamas, and Guanacos.
Camels lived here, sure. Is the Camel as we know it today indigenous to North America ? I have not seen any proof of that.
Excellent point Turin. The animal of today apparently has no direct genetic connection to those fossilized bones.
But we agree that camels considered indigenous to North America did exist? Yes. They went extinct.
The premise of the discussion was not succinct in defining genome.
Documentation was presented believing one side might never have been in contact with that type of information.
What to do with the information is not in my hands. To be unaware of facts is very different than to be unaware in spite of facts.
American Scimitar Cat, for example. Who has heard of it? Until last year, I hadn't. I thought all big cats with big teeth were sabre toothed... But I am now certain they did exist and they are not related to any remaining carnivore. Knowledge supported by facts.
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With Harley ABS bikes you have to use a diagnostic tool to open the valves in the ABS unit in order to flush / change the fluid properly. So, guys who think they are changing the fluid, aren't if they don't use the diagnostic tool.
And you can bet that I will spend the next year and a half (that will be when my RGU with ABS is two years old) figuring out how to buy or make some device that will cycle the ABS so I don't have to take it to a dealer to flush and bleed the system. I'd spend two thousand dollars rather than let someone else touch the bike! (My Road King doesn't have ABS.) One reason I dumped my Monster 1200 was that I couldn't even turn the damn "Oil Service" lamp off myself . . . unacceptable.
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To be unaware of facts is very different than to be unaware in spite of facts.
:smiley: :thumb:
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And you can bet that I will spend the next year and a half (that will be when my RGU with ABS is two years old) figuring out how to buy or make some device that will cycle the ABS so I don't have to take it to a dealer to flush and bleed the system. I'd spend two thousand dollars rather than let someone else touch the bike! (My Road King doesn't have ABS.) One reason I dumped my Monster 1200 was that I couldn't even turn the damn "Oil Service" lamp off myself . . . unacceptable.
I haven't bothered buying anything yet since my new RK is still less than a year old.
But I've heard there are solutions that are about $300.
A quick Google search pointed me towards Twin Tech, here's an example that's almost $400:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180211/80e9a6d0c9c4f3f1bf1cadb15082dd77.jpg)
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Do I understand this right? Some are complaining about the fact that normal hygroscopic brake fluid has to be exchanged each two years? Do responsible people exist who don´t do this at their cars, bikes or aeroplanes yearly?
The discussion about the North American camels was funny. Obviously some do not understand the concept of a scientific theory - and the concept of Deep Time. I recommend the books of the late Stephen Jay Gould regarding this theme.
Back to the original topic: What if Harley tries a new concept: bikes that need not to be modified and customized? I think some of them already exist in the new setup, but what about a sporty Sportster (big tank, nice seat, two-in one exhaust, good leaning angle, and - shock! - lighter, stategically placed pegs, a breaking foot lever that can be reached without turning the foot inside)? Or a touring - Sportster, that is not lowered in such a silly way and has a good suspension travel? All this for an attactive price? Would that attract new buyers?
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Do I understand this right? Some are complaining about the fact that normal hygroscopic brake fluid has to be exchanged each two years? Do responsible people exist who don´t do this at their cars, bikes or aeroplanes yearly?
The discussion about the North American camels was funny. Obviously some do not understand the concept of a scientific theory - and the concept of Deep Time. I recommend the books of the late Stephen Jay Gould regarding this theme.
Back to the original topic: What if Harley tries a new concept: bikes that need not to be modified and customized? I think some of them already exist in the new setup, but what about a sporty Sportster (big tank, nice seat, two-in one exhaust, good leaning angle, and - shock! - lighter, stategically placed pegs, a breaking foot lever that can be reached without turning the foot inside)? Or a touring - Sportster, that is not lowered in such a silly way and has a good suspension travel? All this for an attactive price? Would that attract new buyers?
I think what they're objecting to is that instead of using a syringe, a wrench, and some brake fluid to change the fluid it now requires using a syringe, a wrench, some brake fluid, and a computer.
The problem with the non-customizing approach to the Sportster is that it still burns petroleum. There's no future in it.
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I haven't bothered buying anything yet since my new RK is still less than a year old.
But I've heard there are solutions that are about $300.
A quick Google search pointed me towards Twin Tech, here's an example that's almost $400:
Thanks, Kev! Right there, you saved me $1600 :grin:
I bought the RGU because I loved the new RK so much, and was fully aware of the ABS situation ("dealer-only service"). But since I never let anyone touch any of the machinery here (look, I even mount and balance my car tires), I suspected that there was a legitimate workaround.
Didn't know someone had already developed it. That's what I get for reading the Harley forums and not considering that I'd get a better answer from Wildguzzi!
Oh, wait. I just looked at this tool and it says it's not compatible with 2011-up models using CAN data bus. I think that's me . . . :sad:
Another edit . . . You DID point me to the right place, Kev . . . I just didn't dig in far enough. There's a new version of the tool for the newer bikes that looks as though it will work:
http://www.daytona-twintec.com/Twin_Scan3.html (http://www.daytona-twintec.com/Twin_Scan3.html)
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Do I understand this right? Some are complaining about the fact that normal hygroscopic brake fluid has to be exchanged each two years? Do responsible people exist who don�t do this at their cars, bikes or aeroplanes yearly?
I got money saying the brake fluid in the vast majority of cars/trucks never gets changed until a hydraulic brake part gets replaced..Bikes probably more often but I bet half go for years...
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I got money saying the brake fluid in the vast majority of cars/trucks never gets changed until a hydraulic brake part gets replaced..Bikes probably more often but I bet half go for years...
My money's right beside yours. I've flushed brake fluid on friends' cars that looks like weak coffee.
No wonder motorcycle owners just assume it never needs changing.
I have a Vacula (vacuum bleeder) that makes it really easy, and it's an annual ritual I do on all my bikes. The cars, every two or three years or whenever I replace pads/rotors.
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Do I understand this right? Some are complaining about the fact that normal hygroscopic brake fluid has to be exchanged each two years? Do responsible people exist who don´t do this at their cars, bikes or aeroplanes yearly?
I've never changed the brake fluid in any car or motorcycle I've ever owned. In cars and trucks, I've never changed the manual transmission oil, nor the differential oil.
I guess this makes me irresponsible, but then I've never had a brake failure either, so maybe your "annual" standard is a little tight ... ?
Lannis
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I’ve always heard that brake fluid should be changed every four years, but it’s probably a dated standard. ABS and modern proportioning valves make more frequent maintenance a cost of ownership. It’s a paradigm shift. Remember being outraged at the cost of your first timing belt or CV joint replacement? It’s a “new normal” thing...
I’m restoring a 1971 Triumph...brake fluid never needs changing on that rascal.
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Back to HD...The price on used late model Sportsters has dropped really low... So low that the Rough Edges Racing crew chief, me, is going to work up a land speed racing modified production Sporty in 1000 cc class...
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Back to HD...The price on used late model Sportsters has dropped really low... So low that the Rough Edges Racing crew chief, me, is going to work up a land speed racing modified production Sporty in 1000 cc class...
Sweet!
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As I recall, about 20 years ago Sidney Conn got into a friendly rivalry with the Sportster guys. They were running the same LSR class (1320 pushrod?). Mr Conn was running a Guzzi and took the class record...OK, it was low hanging fruit at the time. That energized the Sportster guys, who came back the next year and regained the record. This was traded back and forth for a few years and was great fun. Best of luck with the new Sportster venture.
Peter Y.
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I know there are a couple of guys on the XLforum over the years who have regularly pursued LSR Sportsters.
I believe Dan of NHRS is one of them:
http://www.nrhsperformance.com/racing.shtml
Aaron of Hammer Performance
http://www.hammerperf.com/racing.shtml
And I'm pretty sure I've seen some threads there from other privateers.
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Yukonica wrote:
American Scimitar Cat, for example. Who has heard of it? Until last year, I hadn't. I thought all big cats with big teeth were sabre toothed... But I am now certain they did exist and they are not related to any remaining carnivore.
Homotherium ! Discovery channel covered that back when they had programing that was educational! There were many variations of prehistoric big cats. That doesn't make tigers indigenous to North America.
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I know there are a couple of guys on the XLforum over the years who have regularly pursued LSR Sportsters.
I believe Dan of NHRS is one of them:
http://www.nrhsperformance.com/racing.shtml
Aaron of Hammer Performance
http://www.hammerperf.com/racing.shtml
And I'm pretty sure I've seen some threads there from other privateers.
Yes,currently I'm in a discussion on the XL Forum with those guys .......Discussing long or short stroke...whether to use an 883 or Buell XB9 crankshaft.
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Back to the OT 7 pages and non one has mentioned Guzzi is currently it lock step following HD's marketing strategy probably 25 years after the fact I do not see this ending well.
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Back to the OT 7 pages and non one has mentioned Guzzi is currently it lock step following HD's marketing strategy probably 25 years after the fact I do not see this ending well.
I'm not sure I fully agree with that. Does Guzzi not have smaller, lighter, and less expensive bikes that appeal to younger riders? And they have announced a new smaller adventure bike.
They seem to be in a different place than Harley right now, at least to me.
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Yukonica wrote:
Homotherium ! Discovery channel covered that back when they had programing that was educational! There were many variations of prehistoric big cats. That doesn't make tigers indigenous to North America.
Not sure what your point is?
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I'm not sure I fully agree with that. Does Guzzi not have smaller, lighter, and less expensive bikes that appeal to younger riders? And they have announced a new smaller adventure bike.
They seem to be in a different place than Harley right now, at least to me.
I would agree with you Kev. The smaller bikes seem to be catching on. Not only with younger riders but with older long time Guzzi fans like myself that are looking to downsize. The V9 and new V85 are on my short list when I make the move from my present Stelvio. I would like to keep my long term affair with the brand.
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I'm not sure I fully agree with that. Does Guzzi not have smaller, lighter, and less expensive bikes that appeal to younger riders?
They have some smaller lighter less expensive motorcycles, a bad carpenter can count on one hand the number of "young" riders I have actually seen on one.
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They have some smaller lighter less expensive motorcycles, a bad carpenter can count on one hand the number of "young" riders I have actually seen on one.
Maybe you gotta get out more... :boozing:
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Maybe you gotta get out more... :boozing:
Between the two of us, we probably get out enough for one, and I have to agree with "doesn't appeal".
I've been thinking of all the small-blocks I know about, and the youngest guy on one is 50 or so. Most of them look more like me, and have bought the smaller bike for the same reason I will, NOT because they're young and new to the game and a 750 seems like the right speed.
Perhaps it would help if any 20 - 30-somethings here with V7s could tell us why the bike appealed to them ... ?
Lannis
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The old saying "follow the money" is probably a good strategy.
Who has the money and time?(boomers,old guys) I've got at least 15 more years of riding left.
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Between the two of us, we probably get out enough for one, and I have to agree with "doesn't appeal".
I've been thinking of all the small-blocks I know about, and the youngest guy on one is 50 or so. Most of them look more like me, and have bought the smaller bike for the same reason I will, NOT because they're young and new to the game and a 750 seems like the right speed.
Perhaps it would help if any 20 - 30-somethings here with V7s could tell us why the bike appealed to them ... ?
Lannis
I don't think many/any of us around here tend to "hang out" with 20-30 somethings anymore.
Why should we assume they would go the places we go and do the things we do enough for us to notice.
Hell that includes this board. I still feel too young for it half the time and I've been here a long time now.
But we have seen some younger/newer Guzzi owners do some drive-bys even on this board looking for info, and our local group has seen a couple too IRL.
Reports are the smallblocks are selling like hotcakes, they must be selling to someone, and it seems that only a part of that is the WG curmudgeon crowd.
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All the young enthusiasts that I know gravitate to older bikes. One example is Brian, the parts guy at The Bonneville Shop. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of British bikes; especially Triumphs. He also possesses an enthusiasm for riding that is tough to maintain as an older guy. He would never dream of buying new...
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I have seen quite a few young people riding small blocks. People probably in their 30's. I try to talk to them whenever I can. Most don't really know much about Guzzi history. They just like their bikes. I was riding my t3 with a Lemans tank one day when I met a young guy on a v7 Classic at a gas station. He was quite surprised to find that my bike that his closely resembled (if you don't look too hard) was built before he was born!
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Between the two of us, we probably get out enough for one, and I have to agree with "doesn't appeal".
I've been thinking of all the small-blocks I know about, and the youngest guy on one is 50 or so. Most of them look more like me, and have bought the smaller bike for the same reason I will, NOT because they're young and new to the game and a 750 seems like the right speed.
Perhaps it would help if any 20 - 30-somethings here with V7s could tell us why the bike appealed to them ... ?
Lannis
QUOTE: Perhaps it would help if any 20-30-somethings here with V7s could tell us why the bike appealed to them?
That would be a good "new" thread... :thumb: :1: :cool:
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There are some 20-30-somethings riding V7s in my city. College town, so that could have some bearing.
Large 25,000+ Student population.
One 30-ish guy with a V7 Racer up the street from me. He also has a vintage BMW R-bike, and some 1970s Honda thing. He's into the V7 because of the vintage looks with modern reliability.
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There are some 20-30-somethings riding V7s in my city. College town, so that could have some bearing.
Large 25,000+ Student population.
One 30-ish guy with a V7 Racer up the street from me. He also has a vintage BMW R-bike, and some 1970s Honda thing. He's into the V7 because of the vintage looks with modern reliability.
Was in Tahlequah last Spring , same there , a couple of V7's parked on campus and along the main drag .
Dusty
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Things have changed and the young people now days don't even like driving other than for transportation. I grew up lusting over motorcycles and cars and the largest market is in the 55 y/o up by far. They will be continuing riding for quite some time, but trying to interest todays youngsters in a recreation vehicle like a motor bike seems to me to be futile.
The huge majority of riders I meet in the states are 55 and up. Many are looking for lighter machines and have the resources to buy them.
Maybe I'm just out of touch but its what I'm seeing.
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Things have changed and the young people now days don't even like driving other than for transportation. I grew up lusting over motorcycles and cars and the largest market is in the 55 y/o up by far. They will be continuing riding for quite some time, but trying to interest todays youngsters in a recreation vehicle like a motor bike seems to me to be futile.
The huge majority of riders I meet in the states are 55 and up. Many are looking for lighter machines and have the resources to buy them.
Maybe I'm just out of touch but its what I'm seeing.
I have to disagree. In Toronto during riding season we have weekly and monthly 'social' events were all kind of bikes are welcome. On any of those events there are over 50% of sport bikes owned by people 30 years old or younger. This lines up with my observation when visiting Piaggio local dealer, if you see young person walking in he/she already rides Aprilia or is looking at one. Very rarely I see rider under 40 years old on Moto Guzzi.
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Things have changed and the young people now days don't even like driving other than for transportation. I grew up lusting over motorcycles and cars and the largest market is in the 55 y/o up by far. They will be continuing riding for quite some time, but trying to interest todays youngsters in a recreation vehicle like a motor bike seems to me to be futile.
The huge majority of riders I meet in the states are 55 and up. Many are looking for lighter machines and have the resources to buy them.
Maybe I'm just out of touch but its what I'm seeing.
You're not out of touch. I also believe that Baby Boomers are driving the current "mid-size" motorcycle sales, despite what the makers' advertising would have you believe.
Most younger people are either just not interested in power sports, or can't afford it due to college debt and the choice to spend their time and money on media and phones.
I see some younger riders on "mid-size" motorcycles, but they're outnumbered.
From what I've seen, Harley's "Street" line is mainly sold to girlfriends and wives of HD riders. I don't see many young men on them. I'm sure there are some, but the younger guys are always on Sportsters.
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On any of those events there are over 50% of sport bikes owned by people 30 years old or younger.
True. 600-750cc sportsbikes are the reserve of young men. Easy to see they are the major demographic on the Japanese Supersports. However, overall sales numbers of those mid-size Supersports has been trending downward for a long time.
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I have to disagree. In Toronto during riding season we have weekly and monthly 'social' events were all kind of bikes are welcome. On any of those events there are over 50% of sport bikes owned by people 30 years old or younger. This lines up with my observation when visiting Piaggio local dealer, if you see young person walking in he/she already rides Aprilia or is looking at one. Very rarely I see rider under 40 years old on Moto Guzzi.
To be clear I'm not talking about rallys and social events, I'm talking about out on the road where you meet people that consider their moto a large part of their every day life.
I believe there is a big difference between the two.
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I sure like some of the Storz HD Sportster Street Trackers http://www.storzperf.com/
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Most younger people are either just not interested in power sports, or can't afford it due to college debt and the choice to spend their time and money on media and phones.
That's ALWAYS been true, the motor heads were always a subset of the Gen Pop, the motorcyclists an even smaller sub-set...
To be clear I'm not talking about rallys and social events, I'm talking about out on the road where you meet people that consider their moto a large part of their every day life.
I believe there is a big difference between the two.
The vast majority of the motorcycle popularity bubble we saw in the last few decades were owners that DIDN'T make it a large part of their everyday life. Those who DID were always a subset, of a subset, of a subset - see above.
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QUOTE: Perhaps it would help if any 20-30-somethings here with V7s could tell us why the bike appealed to them?
That would be a good "new" thread... :thumb: :1: :cool:
Probably not. As you can see from my and everyone else's posts on the subject, the data is going to be all subjective, all qualitative, based on "it seems to me" and "from what I can tell" and "in my town" and "lately" and .... and ....
The fact that we don't HAVE any 20-somethings here with V7s is a data point, but it could mean several things, and we won't even know which is right ....
Lannis
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I sure like some of the Storz HD Sportster Street Trackers http://www.storzperf.com/
:thumb:
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I sure like some of the Storz HD Sportster Street Trackers http://www.storzperf.com/
The original customized Sporty is still the style champ in my book -
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Photobucket-transfers/i-4xh5v9r/0/de48869b/S/1977-harley-davidson-xlcr-1-S.jpg) (https://lannisselz.smugmug.com/Photobucket-transfers/i-4xh5v9r/A)
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A lot of young guys over on the FZ-07 forum and the Ninja 650 forum that i still visit.
One of those bikes brand new cost 2/3rds of what a V7 costs and offers more performance for the money. They don't care that the bikes are clad in plastics and are full of budget parts. Most that buy new do so because they don't know enough about bikes to buy a used one and take the chance on getting an abused one. Most that buy new are not tool savvy at all, or still live the apartment life that doesn't mix well with wrenching. Most that buy new do so because they need the finance guy to work them out a nice payment plan.
What I paid for my V7 I have spent on a vacation. Most young people have to choose between that vacation, a motorcycle, putting money into a retirement plan, paying off student loans, etc.
When I started riding motorcycles were cheap economical alternative modes of transportation. Now they are a leisure activity for most.
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Quote from Kev
"The vast majority of the motorcycle popularity bubble we saw in the last few decades were owners that DIDN'T make it a large part of their everyday life. Those who DID were always a subset, of a subset, of a subset - see above."
So I learned something today...I'm a subset! Damn!!!!!I like it!
:-)
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In a country of aprox 325 million people, the motorcycle industry is selling aprox 5-600,000 units a year!! That includes off road bikes. It's a relatively small market, it's a wonder there are as many players as there are.
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I *have* talked with several young people on new small blocks in the SoCal area..you see a lot of them. But.. you have to be fairly wealthy to live there in the first place. It is an upscale bike for millennials. You can buy Japan inc. iron for much less.
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I don't think many/any of us around here tend to "hang out" with 20-30 somethings anymore.
I work at extremely large university (50 000 students) motorcycle parking is free, I stand by my original statement.
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I work at extremely large university (50 000 students) motorcycle parking is free, I stand by my original statement.
Are motorcycles even a thing on that campus?!?
I don't recall ever seeing one on the campuses of Lehigh or Villanova when I went there, or hell even any of the college's we used to travel through for the East Coast Shotokan tournaments.
I got the impression most of my generation who rides didn't do so in college <shrugs>
But such are the dangers of perceptions.
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Are motorcycles even a thing on that campus?!?
I don't recall ever seeing one on the campuses of Lehigh or Villanova when I went there, or hell even any of the college's we used to travel through for the East Coast Shotokan tournaments.
I got the impression most of my generation who rides didn't do so in college <shrugs>
But such are the dangers of perceptions.
I used to ride my RD400C from out by Stone Mountain to Georgia Tech from '76 to '79.
If I saw 10 other bikes among the thousands of cars, it was a banner day for bikes ....
Lannis
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When I went to the UW in the 80s, scooters were the preferred mode of student mobility. Seattle is a hilly town and pedal bikes are only fun one way. Motorcycles paid some nominal access and parking fee -- like $10 a term -- to cover the sticker, I think. They encouraged bikes because they took less space, and 90% of them were Vespas or less. It was a wildly successful policy; there were thousands of scooters everywhere. Helmets were required on campus.
The relatively few street bikes on campus were never crowded. Bikes could park anywhere we could fit the machine, as well as in designated bike corrals and the parking garages, where we could stuff as many into a car slot as we could fit. I can't recall getting boxed in, although I'd park to the outer edge, making the mopeds have to fill in behind me. My Windjammer stuck up among the clusters of step-throughs like a sail -- always easy to find.
I could park handy enough to ride between classes (had to stay on car paths and designated alleys), which was easier than walking at the time. That and being able to use the HOV lane on the commute made it worthwhile to rack up about 50k commuting on the Convert, sometimes in pretty nasty weather.
I was there in L&I and qualified for a handicapped sticker. They fought like heck to keep from giving me both a m/c pass andthe blue placard. I put up a good stink for disabled biker rights. :angel:
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In the early 90's I was riding my 850 T-3 to school. There were always other bikes, I remember seeing Katanas, 250 ninjas, a-ZX-7 stands out ( because I thought it was the fastest looking thing ever in green white and blue) and some older Japanese 4 cyl bikes.
I've noticed a lot of smaller displacement sportbikes lately (250 cc?)
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When the weather was nicer I rode a Triumph 650 to state college in western NY state during the 70's..A huge campus...Saw no other bikes...
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"Death rattle," good grief. Harley haters are amusing.
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Preferred Chesterfields myself.
Equally extinct nowadays.
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Are motorcycles even a thing on that campus?!?
At a guess 90% plus of the student base do not live on campus they commute one way or another.
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You're not out of touch. I also believe that Baby Boomers are driving the current "mid-size" motorcycle sales, despite what the makers' advertising would have you believe.
Most younger people are either just not interested in power sports, or can't afford it due to college debt and the choice to spend their time and money on media and phones.
I see some younger riders on "mid-size" motorcycles, but they're outnumbered.
From what I've seen, Harley's "Street" line is mainly sold to girlfriends and wives of HD riders. I don't see many young men on them. I'm sure there are some, but the younger guys are always on Sportsters.
I agree with this statement in its entirety. Younger people can't tell you how many cylinders a car has. Most have no idea how to do maintenance on it and manufacturers are playing on this. Look under the hood of a modern car and all you will see is a sheet of plastic. BMW has even made the oil dipstick obsolete with computer oil monitoring. Kids today are more interested in connectivity features of a vehicle than how many horsepower it has.
Up here in Canuckistan it is cold and snowy for the winter months so a motorcycle is essentially a luxury item. Insurance is expensive and if you are a young new rider it is really expensive. Seen quotes for young riders in excess of $2000. Hell most large displacement riders 60 years old with 40 years experience are paying in the $1000 range. What young person with student loans. a mortgage and rent could afford this. Heck, they would have to give up there cellphones and we know that is not going to happnen,
Cheers, Tim
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When the weather was nicer I rode a Triumph 650 to state college in western NY state during the 70's..A huge campus...Saw no other bikes...
I rode Yamaha 250, 305, 350 twin 2 strokes to college, work in the `60's in California year round. :grin: Saw a few other bikes in my college parking lots.
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I rode Yamaha 250, 305, 350 twin 2 strokes to college, work in the `60's in California year round. :grin: Saw a few other bikes.
Those few others you saw was only me.