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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bobrebos on February 12, 2018, 11:08:45 AM
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I need a revolver for a snake (Timber Rattlers) gun for when Im up in the mountains at my cabin. I was reading that the Taurus "The Judge" would fit the bill. Anybody agree or have one or?? Thanks for your opinions......
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Seems like any revolver that you are comfortable with will work. In Arizona I used my .357 and my wife used her .44 special, both loaded with snake shot.
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A long handled garden hoe used to work pretty good for me.
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Taurus sells a lot of "Judge" revolvers. The option of .45 LC or .410 shotgun seems appealing for some.
Downside is the piece is heavy and the balance is a little clumsy. Upside is being able to use .410 shotgun rounds.
Personally, I'd recommend any revolver which you're comfortable shooting. Load a couple chambers with snake shot, and the rest with JHP rounds.
But, if you're at your cabin, it's hard to beat a normal shotgun for the task. You can pick up a Turkish import double barrel .410 or 20GA at Academy Sports for a few hundred dollars.
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Timber rattlers are pretty easy to avoid but I do get the being prepared part ( a scout is...).
Keeping it stock I would suggest a Model 65 in 4" . There are a ton of them used and the .38 snake loads are off the shelf.
If you are adventurous you could go with a used Taurus Model 415 Titanium. You'd have to have someone make your snake loads but the .41 Mag. is really a great shooter.
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If snake defense is really going to be the main purpose of your gun, it almost doesn't matter what it is.
You don't need a nice or accurate pistol for blasting #9 shot out of a .410 shell at a snake at point-blank range. You could make a homemade zip-gun and it would work as well as a $2000 Colt .... !
If you'd like a nice pistol because it'll be used for other things too, or just because you like the feel of a nice pistol, the choices are endless ....
Lannis
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A howdah pistol can be had in 20 gauge and there is no better snake shooting pistol available.
It can also be found in .410 and .45 colt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH3HTuDgjSs
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Overkill! .... or underkill if counting rounds.
Get yourself a used 22LR wheel gun and rat shot ammunition - that'll give you at least six shots at that venomous rascal.
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A howdah pistol can be had in 20 gauge and there is no better snake shooting pistol available.
It can also be found in .410 and .45 colt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH3HTuDgjSs
That's essentially a sawed off shotgun; which I've been taught to believe is illegal in most places.
Correct me if I'm wrong
Edit: https://www.google.com/search?q=are%20sawed%20off%20shotguns%20legal
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I have a 410 snake charmer which is a downsized and shortened single shot. Hard to find these days. This is for copperheads at my cabin near the Big South Fork in Fentress County, Tennessee. Remember is is illegal to kill a snake in Tennessee! So you are only "harvesting" one. I would never wish to harm a timber rattler, but copper heads are a dime a dozen so... I like the 38 with snake shot idea myself.
Keith
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I have a 410 snake charmer which is a downsized and shortened single shot. Hard to find these days. This is for copperheads at my cabin near the Big South Fork in Fentress County, Tennessee. Remember is is illegal to kill a snake in Tennessee! So you are only "harvesting" one. I would never wish to harm a timber rattler, but copper heads are a dime a dozen so... I like the 38 with snake shot idea myself.
Keith
Yes they are. Luckily we have a good population of Kings in our neighborhood.
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That Taurus "Judge" .45 / .410 is a HUGE, heavy, hog-leg!! :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes: - - but I am sure with the right pepper-shot...in either caliber, it would certainly do the job...and then some!! :laugh: :grin: :wink:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/i4AvwS/Screen_Shot_2018_02_12_at_3_15_11_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/i4AvwS)
...and here is the Pedersoli Howdah...also in .45 / .410 gauge! - - another HOG-LEG!! :laugh: :grin: :wink:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kLH3i7/Screen_Shot_2018_02_12_at_3_17_45_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/kLH3i7)
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I worked on a seismograph crew in sw oklahoma in my 20’s seeing 10 to 12 diamondbacks a day was fairly common, never shot one, never bitten. You’re in thier territory, be aware
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I worked on a seismograph crew in sw oklahoma in my 20�s seeing 10 to 12 diamondbacks a day was fairly common, never shot one, never bitten. You�re in thier territory, be aware
We have these (Western Diamondbacks) as well here in Arizona. I have seen large ones WHILE hiking...best to just let them pass across the trail... :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/i9MeO7/Screen_Shot_2018_02_12_at_3_49_00_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/i9MeO7)
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We have these (Western Diamondbacks) as well here in Arizona. I have seen large ones hiking...best to just let them pass across the trail... :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes:
snip
JJ, if they are big enough to hike.. :grin: I'd want a bigger firearm than a snake gun. <shrug>
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JJ, if they are big enough to hike.. :grin: I'd want a bigger firearm than a snake gun. <shrug>
Picky...picky...PIC KY!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
OK-OK - I changed the wording!! (Geeeez!!!) Tough crowd here in wildguzzi-Land! :laugh: :grin: :wink:
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Maybe something to think about when it comes to rattlers?
Perhaps, maybe some of the conventional wisdom handed down over the years may not be as accurate as thought. I don't have to deal at all with snakes where I usually run, but my brother has been big into snakes his whole life, and has educated me a bit on them. I'm still not a fan of snakes, but I do now understand that they mostly do far more good than most think.
If you think rattlers should be killed on sight, I encourage a quick read here.
https://rattlesnakeawareness.blogspot.com/2011/12/when-is-it-ok-to-kill-rattlesnake.html
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The Howdah is a muzzle loader in 20 gauge, therefore it is legal.
And it will kill any snake you ever imagined. Even the one in the first Conan movie.
Those that hike are Childs play for it.
It was invented to kill a charging tiger at point blank range for vacationing Brit officers in India.
It has probably taken care of two legged snakes as well.
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If you think rattlers should be killed on sight, I encourage a quick read here.
https://rattlesnakeawareness.blogspot.com/2011/12/when-is-it-ok-to-kill-rattlesnake.html
Good article, and one I follow for almost any potentially harmful animal. There's my turf (see "Property Rights" and "Food Chain") where my grandchildren play and I live, and store firewood, and there's HIS turf, out in the woods, in National Forests, timber company land, and places like that.
Two sets of rules, like the article says.
Lannis
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The Howdah is a muzzle loader in 2 gauge, therefore it is legal.
And it will kill any snake you ever imagined. Even the one in the first Conan movie.
Those that hike are Childs play for it.
It was invented to kill a charging tiger at point blank range for vacationing Brit officers in India.
It has probably taken care of two legged snakes as well.
"Uncle Jim" is correct on all counts!! "Howdah-Mania!!" :huh: :shocked: :rolleyes:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jxY7t7/Screen_Shot_2018_02_12_at_6_20_21_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/jxY7t7)
upload temporary image (http://imgbb.com/)
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If you can I suggest shooting a .410 pistol before buying. Some find the recoil uncomfortable.
My police trade in S&W .38 special model 10 fits the bill for me. As suggested first two lead shot, next four wadcutters.
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Good article, and one I follow for almost any potentially harmful animal. There's my turf (see "Property Rights" and "Food Chain") where my grandchildren play and I live, and store firewood, and there's HIS turf, out in the woods, in National Forests, timber company land, and places like that.
Two sets of rules, like the article says.
Lannis
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=boV0t-riFuw
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=boV0t-riFuw
Lotta truth to that! Fair's fair .... it's their house ...
... but the chances of my getting killed by her car while she's driving along recording a viral youtube video are probably a thousand times greater than me getting ate up by a shark at Topsail Beach this summer .....!!
Lannis
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I am so pleased we don't have snakes here in NZ. Some have tried to hitch-hike here but so far (I hope) they have been cut off at the Pass.
Just the thought of them gives me the ab-dabs.
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Glad I don't need a gun to protect me from snakes.. not sayin' I don't have a gun(s) for other protections tho..
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-bw7kQSX/0/100f2efe/M/joey%20%26%20Dad-M.png) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-bw7kQSX/A)
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Overkill! .... or underkill if counting rounds.
Get yourself a used 22LR wheel gun and rat shot ammunition - that'll give you at least six shots at that venomous rascal.
Or a Ruger 22 revolver with 10 shots on hand.
When growing up in Florida, my dad always carried a 22 with shot cartridges. On the other side, he carried a 44 mag for larger things. This was while hunting in the orange groves. I don't recall him ever needing either one.
John Henry
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ooops, thought this might be a muscle car thread..
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ooops, thought this might be a muscle car thread..
It would be a good one. The "advertised" performance (and "tested" performance depending on how much you believe the tests in an advertiser-funded magazine) of the 1990 Taurus SHO and the 1970 GTO "Judge" (about 14.5 - 15.0 sec quarter mile and 140+ top end) was so close on the two cars that you'd have to do a head-to-head, or timing slips at the same place at the same time, to determine which one was going to be faster.
There. Now it IS a muscle car thread, at least for a few minutes .... !
Lannis
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Keep it simple. Small .22 LR revolver unless you like to see things explode.
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Hey! Guys *like* to blow up stuff.. :grin:
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Taurus sells a lot of "Judge" revolvers. The option of .45 LC or .410 shotgun seems appealing for some.
Downside is the piece is heavy and the balance is a little clumsy. Upside is being able to use .410 shotgun rounds.
Personally, I'd recommend any revolver which you're comfortable shooting. Load a couple chambers with snake shot, and the rest with JHP rounds.
But, if you're at your cabin, it's hard to beat a normal shotgun for the task. You can pick up a Turkish import double barrel .410 or 20GA at Academy Sports for a few hundred dollars.
I agree. The Judge is a large and heavy pistol to be packing around for snake work only. Better off with something lighter loaded with snake shot.
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I have the lightweight version of the judge. great weapon and I thought it was the best thing to carry at deer camp for snakes. my neighbor shoots a lot. owns about everything you can think of. he said the 22 Magnum in the little 5 shot short (almost no) barrel derringer did a better job. before calling him nuts I went out and patterned both. he was right the 22 mag is awesome with the bird shot and does a much better job than the 410 did.
nice thing is it's so easy to carry compared to the judge.
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Many years ago I was riding in the Oregon desert with a couple of friends. I saw a rattle snake and stopped to play
with it. My friends went on to the next oasis with gas. I shot the thing with a .38 loaded with snake shot. then I stuffed the body under some bungees and rode on to catch up. Feeling worried , I looked back and saw the snake working itself out from the bungee cords that held it. The snake was obviously not dead yet and as reaching for my butt.. I stood up and pressed my crotch against the handlebars and began slowing down thinking , "How am I to escape this thing. I did not wan't to lift my leg over it thus exposing my jewels to the fangs. As I rolled onto the shoulder of the road, I squeezed hard on the front brake and thumbed the kill switch. This allowed me to somersault over the bars to escape the fate the snake wanted to give me. I then got up and shot the snake again until his head was no longer a hazard. This is the reason I now have faith in the howdah pistol as a snake gun. The .38 is not a certain way to kill snakes.
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OK, items to consider:
1. How comfortable are you with carrying a handgun all the time. To be effective, you must carry it on you always. Mr. Rattles won't give you time to go get it out of the safe/cabin/truck/etc...
2. How much weight are you comfortable carrying all the time? The Judge series, even the light ones, are a lot heavier than the 22 or 38 revolvers mentioned by others. Because the one day you decide to not carry that heavy thing will be the day Mr. Murphy puts a rattler in your way.
3. How good of a snap-shooter are you? With snakes, time is critical and distance is usually 5 feet or less. Have you or are you willing to train yourself to reliably hit a small moving target? (the head is the only sure kill on a snake) If you're not up to the task, solid bullets are out and you must use shot, but even then, at 5 feet the shot will only spread to between the size of an orange and a grapefruit. And you're still aiming for the head.
You also don't mention if you current own a revolver. If you do, go buy a couple packs of commercially available snake-shot. CCI makes it in 22LR, 22 Mag, 38, 9mm, 44 mag and 45 ACP that I know of. Set up a target 5 feet away from you and see if you can hit it with your first shot. Now have someone time you, and try to draw, sight, and fire in under 2 seconds.
With all that said, in competent hands, a Judge loaded with #9 birdshot can be a great snake gun! But is it the right gun for you? Where I live, we can't open carry, so those massive cannons are not something I'd have much use for. But if you're set on using a 410 shotshell, look into a Bond Arms derringer. They even called one the "Snake Slayer" if that gives you any idea what they were thinking. Sure, it's only got 2 rounds, but it's a lot lighter and easier to handle than the Judge, and I can say the quality is much, much higher than any Taurus. Just another option for you to consider.
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You guys are funny.
What do you do to mitigate the risk from falling space debris ?
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You guys are funny.
What do you do to mitigate the risk from falling space debris ?
What do YOU do to mitigate the risk from all the timber rattlers in the Chicago area?
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How about a Charter Arms 44 special and load it up with CCI shot shells? It's compact, not too heavy and relatively cheap.
A Taurus 444 Ultra Lite would be a more expensive but still relatively light option for a large bore revolver.
There are also shotshells in 9mm, 45 acp and 45 Colt available.
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For about $50 you could get a set of snake chaps that cover your legs from ankle to knees w/ Kevlar. Not much weight, kinda warm though. Have used these when bow hunting and not allowed to carry a firearm.
Not a firearm, but might be useful anyways.
Yeah. Chaps are a good idea if you're walking through brush and tall grass, hunting or working.
Personally, I've only seen three timber rattlers in my life. All in the past 5 years. Two of them while riding horseback in the forest. The rattlers let us know they were there, and we just left them be. Unlike in the movies, the horses didn't pay the rattlers any mind.
One big boy showed up in my dad's driveway last year, close to kids and dogs, so he was dispatched with hoe.
Our normal policy with snakes is to leave them be. They do more good than harm.
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I have a crawl space under my cabin that is big enough to stand up in (For about half the area) and the rest I can be on my knees in. I store tools etc in there and have water pipes etc in there that need my attention periodically. Had a rattler in there once two years ago and its not good to come across a rattler in my opinion, within a semi confined area.
I carry a .380 concealed for personal protection but i need something that I can use snake shot in for the next occurrence like that last occurrence. I dont go out of my way to kill timber rattle snakes, but dont want to get bit either!
Il look at .38 .44 etc with snakeshot rounds to also carry with me and il keep my 20 gauge shotgun up at the cabin i suppose with a few rounds until i buy another pistol.
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Our normal policy with snakes is to leave them be. They do more good than harm.
:1: Dorcia is always happy to see a snake around the house, knowing it will be munching on those stupid voles and ground squirrels that tear up her flower beds. For *those* I have a .410 over and under.
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:1: Dorcia is always happy to see a snake around the house, knowing it will be munching on those stupid voles and ground squirrels that tear up her flower beds. For *those* I have a .410 over and under.
Yep, like was said above ... snakes in THEIR space (non-poisonous ones outside, controlling rodents), we let 'em alone, even though (being human) we jump a bit when we see one.
Copperheads near the house, or anything INSIDE the house, is dispatched.
Lannis
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I find it interesting that many guys will go out of their way to shoot a snake that presents no danger to themselves...I came across a rattle snake out west...I observed from a safe distance and moved on...
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The nastiest rattler I ever encountered was a Mojave Green. I held on tight to his head and removed the rest of him from it with a buck folding hunter. The body became a hat band for me. I wore it for about 10 years until a packrat
ate some of it.
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You guys are funny.
What do you do to mitigate the risk from falling space debris ?
Gees, Chad. A kevlar impregnated tinfoil hat. Please, try to keep up. :evil:
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When I lived on my five acres in the Arizona desert I killed about 20+ rattlers a year around my house. I kept the brush cut, had three big dogs, quite a few king snakes and a few other types. Mojave green rattlers were the worst. They were aggressive and would strike before rattling. The side winders were not friendly either. The western diamond back were a bit shy but would strike out if they perceived any danger. My property, my rules, my world. They put my wife in danger so I took care of the threat. Killing all those rattlers did not upset the eco system one bit.
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Seems like a lot of wasted time and energy. If for some reason, you really needed to kill a snake, wouldn't a good stick do the job for a lot less money?
I have no problem with someone killing a poisonous snake if it is indeed hanging around their abode, or somewhere where a pet or person is likely to be found. The problem I have is tens of thousands, maybe more, of beneficial snakes of all kinds are killed every year for no reason other than they are living their lives, in their habitat. I have know lots of guys who would kill a rattler on sight, regardless of where they are, that is just plain stupid.
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Seems like a lot of wasted time and energy. If for some reason, you really needed to kill a snake, wouldn't a good stick do the job for a lot less money?
For the same reason that I wouldn't by choice fight off a rabid dog with a spear or a knife, I wouldn't approach a poisonous snake to within arms length if I didn't need to.
Why, when we have technology enabled by our well-organized brains and our opposable thumbs, would I use caveman tools to dispatch an animal that's capable of killing me?
Where's the wasted time and energy? The appropriate pistol in one's pocket is the cheapest, easiest insurance of all. Where am I going to get the stick to kill the snake with? Carry it around with me? Hope I find it on the ground? It doesn't make sense. I already have a bunch of guns so it's no trouble picking one for that job if I'm in snake country.
If you know "lots of guys" that just like to go around killing rattlers, you shouldn't waste YOUR time and energy on us. Go tell THOSE guys how stupid they are ... maybe?
Lannis
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Lannis, if you were walking along a trail and saw what you think is a dangerous snake, would you kill it even if you could avoid the snake and continue on your way? I believe this is what Bad Chad means...
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I wont kill a snake, unless it specifically threatens me or I am in a situation where I do not have any choice, like down in the crawl space of my cabin and I cant get away safely from the rattle snake. If its out in the woods, il just walk the opposite way. If its on my cabin stoop, Il try to get it to move away......
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I worked with a hilljack who killed any critter that moved.Went out of his way to do it.Why not? Are you a man or not?was his reasoning.I guess the myopic logic was if it is no good to man it must be exterminated.
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The stick comment was mostly tongue and cheek. But a nice walking stick works great!
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The stick comment was mostly tongue and cheek. But a nice walking stick works great!
I use one (I have a collection) on every walk I go on. Sometimes a bit of arthritis in the knee throws my balance off and a stick really helps.
But most people don't use them. Too "Old Man" looking, I guess. Walking sticks and hats were how you could tell an "old man" when I was younger.
Now they're the sign of a "smart man" .... !
Lannis
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Walking sticks are also good while walking or on a bicycle to shoo away obnoxious dogs...And if you can twirl it, very cool...
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I kill poisonous snakes close to the house, but leave them alone in the wild. I understand that the outbreak of Hantavirus some years back was the result of coyote and rattlesnake bounties out west. Without the predators to control their populations, vermin became a very big problem.
As for the Judge, I tried one out a few years back. I found it unwieldy to carry and the accuracy with .45 LC rounds was poor. A double-action .38/.357 revolver with a 2" to 4" barrel will make a far better choice. I use a 2" S&W 638 Airweight in the field. It weighs 15 ounces, is reasonably accurate, has a five shot cylinder, and deploys simply and safely. Taurus, Charter Arms, and Rossi have similar pieces available for affordable prices.
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If I try to twirl my walking stick, I will fall down. So if you can twirl your walking stick, you don't really need one.
It then becomes a twirling stick that you pretend to use for walking. Poser.
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Lannis, if you were walking along a trail and saw what you think is a dangerous snake, would you kill it even if you could avoid the snake and continue on your way? I believe this is what Bad Chad means...
Depends. Is anyone else involved, dog, child, someone/something that doesn't know how to react and can't follow my instructions? If it's way out in the woods where he could never get to me or my house, sure, you back down or go around.
Insurance is cheap and unobtrusive ....
Lannis
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Well put, Lannis. A buddy of mine said it thusly:
A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you're unlikely to ever need it again.
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I saw a snake in my path and picked up a stick to hit it with. The snake turned out to be a stick.
The stick I picked up to hit it with turned out to be a snake. YAHGG!
An old story my father told me when I was very young.
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I saw a snake in my path and picked up a stick to hit it with. The snake turned out to be a stick.
The stick I picked up to hit it with turned out to be a snake. YAHGG!
An old story my father told me when I was very young.
Holy Moses, what a situation .... !
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I've has a couple of dozen encounters with rattlesnakes dicking around here in the desert. ( never at my house though ). I never felt the need for a weapon. The last encounter was a few years back where we had a baby rattler at the entrance to the bar I was working at. I swept him up with a broom and one of those dustpans with the long handle and put him back into the desert.
The snakes aren't looking for a fight.
Interesting fact ... 99% of Gila Monster bites are caused when someone attempts to pick one up.