Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Guzzistajohn on February 25, 2018, 07:21:33 AM
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We've had several discussions on this subject here. Well here's the reason why:
BREAKING NEWS:
Major motorcycle manufacturers are closing plants due to declining sales.
Apparently the Baby-Boomers all have motorcycles, Generation X is only buying a few, and the next generation isn't buying any. A recent study found the reasons why Millennials don't ride motorcycles:
1. Pants won't pull up far enough for them to straddle the seat.
2. Can't get their phone to their ear with a helmet on.
3. Can't use 2 hands to eat while driving.
4. They don't get a trophy and a recognition plaque just for buying one.
5. Don't have enough muscle to hold the bike up when stopped.
6. Might have a bug hit them in the face and then they would need emergency care.
7. Motorcycles don't have air conditioning.
8. They can't afford one because they spent 12 years in college trying to get educated in gender studies .
9. They are allergic to fresh air.
10. Their pajamas get caught on the exhaust pipes.
11. They might get their hands dirty checking the oil.
12. The handle bars have buttons and levers and cannot be controlled by touch-screen.
13. You have to shift manually and use something called a clutch.
14. It's too hard to take selfies while riding.
15. They don't come with training wheels like their bicycles did.
16. Motorcycles don't have power steering or power brakes.
17. Their nose ring interferes with the face shield.
18. They would have to use leg muscle to back up.
19. When they stop, a light breeze might blow exhaust in their face.
20. They would need to upgrade before the in-transit expired.
21. It could rain on them and expose them to non-soft water.
22. It might scare their therapy dog, and then the dog would need therapy.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😎
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:evil:
My husband and I were joking yesterday about how getting dressed is too much of a bother for some. I love my PJ's but wouldn't be caught dead wearing them in public.
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Excellent and mostly true !!!
Cut, paste, save to archive ... with permission of course ... :cool:
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I know so many kids who resemble that remark!
Geez. My daughter wants nothing to do with anything powered except the car, but she's in collage working on being a Dr. She has no time.
My youngest plays soccer 12 1/2 months a year all over the northeast and has never even expressed any interest in power toys. My wife, on the other hand, lives for the smell of two stroke. A KEEPER!
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My oldest is an avid enthusiast but the youngest is more preoccupied with working full time and going to school. Rally has put all his hobbies aside and looks to graduate in May. He still likes to ride my bikes occasionally but most of mine don't interest him since none are supersports.
There sure seems to be a bunch of 20 somethings riding around OKC. They regularly show up in the dozens at Cyclegear bike nights, mostly on sport bikes and street fighters. Also Lake Draper has an off road trail area that is pretty crowded most weekends with a lot of younger guys on dirt bikes. It's too crowded for my slow ass riding holding them all up. Some of those kids have some serious money tied up in their bikes. The older guys are mostly riding the cruises and side by sides and on a warm sunny weekend there are a bunch of bikes out on the road.
Could it be the bike market is just pretty saturated from the last couple of bubbles and those older bikes need to go away before a new bike push comes along?
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The last somewhat larger high school I worked (about 800 students) at would have a couple of 600cc class sport bikes, KLR or two, some 250 class dirt bikes and one student riding what I would guess to be a 90s vintage Sporty along with about a half a dozen scooters. . Whenever I could ride the Norge to work I almost always got one or more positive comments on the Norge from students. Money is tighter and days of cheap bikes and parts are pretty much past. Don't have to drag main anymore to socialize.
GliderJohn
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John, now that you mention it, I can see where the CG bike nights might be those kids version of dragging main street. Which incidentally has become a highly discouraged activity in my town in the last couple of decades. :copcar:
Wonder if that has much to do with the lack of gearhead kids?
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Excellent and mostly true !!!
Cut, paste, save to archive ... with permission of course ... :cool:
That's how I got it <shrug> go for it!
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From the perspective of what you folks lovingly refer to as a millennial, I can tell you the biggest reason is a lot simpler than that: we can’t afford new motorcycles. We ESPECIALLY can’t afford the big-displacement, overpriced (cough - Harley - cough) motorcycles that the generation before us popularized so well. Things are different now. We can’t afford to “work and pay our way through college” anymore. More and more of us are being forced to move back in with parents. As costs of living outpace wage increases and job prospects, luxuries like new motorcycles feel just as out of reach as home ownership (you know, another market that millenials are killing, in addition to jewelry stores and Applebee’s).
If you’d take the time to actually observe and chat with a few of us confoundin, dagnabbin millenials, you’ll see that we’re pretty huge fans of the vintage market, barn finds, and finding cheap bikes on Craigslist that we can afford to pick up. Scrape together a bit from our paychecks and make them our own. We love it. Here in Pittsburgh, I can name three cooperative shops in a 3 square mile area where a bunch of us rent a space, stock it with whatever tools we can afford, and wrench on our bikes. We buy old shop manuals off eBay, make tons of mistakes, create some really cool things, and absolutely love it. At 26, I’m fortunate enough to own three bikes so far. One of them I bought from my brother and pulled it out of a storage shed. The other two were bought used, one is a 2011 and the other a 2012. A truly new bike, the statistic with the storm cloud over it, is just out of reach for me (and almost every single one of my millenial riding buddies) for right now. We can’t afford new ones.
But trust me, we love motorcycles.
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Money is tighter and days of cheap bikes and parts are pretty much past. Don't have to drag main anymore to socialize.
GliderJohn
I don't think that money is relatively tighter in the area of buying bikes in high school than it was when I came along ... In 1971, I was making $1.60 an hour, working evenings as a part-time janitor at the high school, summers in town maintenance (garbage collection, sweeping streets, etc).
I saved and saved, and found a year-old CS-3 Yamaha 200cc electric start twin for $500. That represented 280 hours of work for me, but it put me on the road.
You had to be dedicated back then to get a bike to ride in high school, and you'd have to be just as dedicated now. A kid bagging groceries or boxing up chicken wings for $7.50 an hour for 280 hours would have $2000+ to spend on a bike, which would put them on SOMETHING they could ride ... but they'd have to give up a lot of other stuff.
There were only two motorcycles in my high school parking lot .... Not many more now at the same high school ...
Lannis
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From the perspective of what you folks lovingly refer to as a millennial, I can tell you the biggest reason is a lot simpler than that: we can�t afford new motorcycles. We ESPECIALLY can�t afford the big-displacement, overpriced (cough - Harley - cough) motorcycles that the generation before us popularized so well. Things are different now. We can�t afford to �work and pay our way through college� anymore. More and more of us are being forced to move back in with parents. As costs of living outpace wage increases and job prospects, luxuries like new motorcycles feel just as out of reach as home ownership (you know, another market that millenials are killing, in addition to jewelry stores and Applebee�s).
If you�d take the time to actually observe and chat with a few of us confoundin, dagnabbin millenials, you�ll see that we�re pretty huge fans of the vintage market, barn finds, and finding cheap bikes on Craigslist that we can afford to pick up. Scrape together a bit from our paychecks and make them our own. We love it. Here in Pittsburgh, I can name three cooperative shops in a 3 square mile area where a bunch of us rent a space, stock it with whatever tools we can afford, and wrench on our bikes. We buy old shop manuals off eBay, make tons of mistakes, create some really cool things, and absolutely love it. At 26, I�m fortunate enough to own three bikes so far. One of them I bought from my brother and pulled it out of a storage shed. The other two were bought used, one is a 2011 and the other a 2012. A truly new bike, the statistic with the storm cloud over it, is just out of reach for me (and almost every single one of my millenial riding buddies) for right now. We can�t afford new ones.
But trust me, we love motorcycles.
You gotta compare apples to apples. Twenty-somethings of the last generation, or the one before that, were NOT buying big bright Harleys with their huge paychecks; that was the older guys, already established, or guys who had NOT wasted $150,000 on a college degree that they had never used, but had apprenticed into a trade and had a reliable job and paycheck.
The rest of us got by on whatever sort of project bikes and whatever was going cheap that we could get our hands on. AND we were satisfied that 350cc bikes were normal, fast, touring, sporting motorcycles - a CB350 Honda or RD350 Yamaha would do anything we wanted to do. The marketeers had not yet convinced us that only someone (excuse us a moment, ladies) whose testicles had not yet dropped would buy anything under 1000cc to putt around on.
From the age of 18 to 28, I rode any clattering thing I could get my hands on, and had a great time.
For the true enthusiast like yourself (and my limited observation says that you are NOT typical!), it's going to happen. For people who just don't care .. well, they never cared ... !
Lannis
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A few days ago I was riding home when I spotted a rider and passenger broke down in the median on a very busy road. I doubled back to find a young kid (maybe 19) and his girlfriend next to a very ratty and very broken Kawasaki Ninja 300. The poor bike had seen better days. The left side was rough, turn signal dangling from the wire, clutch lever bend almost back on itself. The bike would (seemingly) click into gear, but revved freely with no movement when you let the clutch out. Something let go in the tranny or clutch. Anyway, I told him it wasn't a roadside fix and helped him push it to a safer location around the corner. I offered to get my truck, but his girlfriend said they would just call her mom for a ride. I feel safe in saying he was riding it because it was all he could afford. A lot more things competing for one's dollar these days...cell phones, computers, cable TV, Netflix, etc. Yesterdays luxury is todays necessity. I feel bad that I didn't do more to help this kid out. His bike may cost more to repair than it's worth. I'd hate for someone to give up riding because of some bad luck. I've been fortunate to be able to ride for over 45 years. We need to put some effort into sharing that passion with younger people. Give back, as it were.
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Pittsburg, I know exactly where you are coming from. The old guys, manufacturers and bike shop owners now think riders have to be buying new bikes, but back when I was in my 20's, I was also riding cheap used bikes and having to work on them regularly. The bike night kids on sport bikes usually have plenty of zip ties holding the fairing together and we all know where the street fighters came from.
And the kids out at the stunting areas (late at night behind big closed warehouses) are riding anything that runs. Just like my friends and I did back in the day. Except the old trashed bike they are riding now are night and day better performance wise than what we had back then.
And I also think these young guys are better, more skilled riders than we were (except in our clouded memories and dreams). I do have a bit different perspective since I have two 20 something sons who rode and had riding friends.
As a side note, I have a real tire changing machine in the garage. When I change tires that are slightly past the wear bars I save them. My son and his friends come over and put those "worn out" tires on their stunt bike rims, replacing tires with cords showing. They are happy to get them. I enjoy the kids coming over and hanging out doing MC stuff.
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There are a lot of really nice used bikes out there, so many that I'm not interested in anything new, regardless of wherewithal. Used is better in today's market, especially if you like to fiddle with them for a little while after you buy them, and get them all dialed in.
How about a pristine Ducati ST2 that rides like new for $2900? That one actually doesn't need anything, I did it all a long time ago. Let me know if something like that is of interest :wink: The similarly clean Suzuki SV650 that I bought and made my own for $1300 total investment is not for sale... because right now I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Meanwhile, my ST4 is in the workshop but will pop out in a little while, looking and running like new. All them combined are not worth the price of one new bike. It's a great time be a motorcyclist, young or older.
So as a much older than millennial motorcyclist with a taste for bikes with character, I'd agree that used is the way to go for anybody, including those on a budget, but argue against the necessity to ride anything that looks rough. For not too much money you can ride a nice bike that goes fast, looks great, and runs as new.
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Oh, and do any of you guys know what full coverage insurance costs a 22 year old (if the bike is financed it is required)? Major hurdle for a young guy to buy a new bike.
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Try National General, liability only, on a bike that you bought with saved cash. If it is 10 times what I'm paying as an older guy, it will be about $350/year per bike.
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Oh, and do any of you guys know what full coverage insurance costs a 22 year old (if the bike is financed it is required)? Major hurdle for a young guy to buy a new bike.
I still remember what happened when I was 30 years old, with a fresh new paycheck including overtime, and committed to an $8400 ElectraGlide, on a "3 months same as cash", with the plan of paying in full in 90 days.
I went to my usual insurance company that had insured the old Triumph I was riding (for $125 a year) and found that they would NOT insure me on that bike!
I went to my old fallback, the company that had insured my very first bike (Dairyland), and they wanted over $1200 a year (in 1984) to insure it.
By now it's Oh No This Isn't Going To Happen, and I stepped with no hope into an Allstate office. $250 a year full coverage, sign here; I could do that! Big sigh of relieve, never expected them to be the cheap option.
So, as always, with insurance you NEVER know, it's like "Face the Wheel", it could be Death, Loss of Goods, Gulag, or Auntie's Choice ... and for the same reasons, I suspect.
Lannis
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You gotta compare apples to apples. Twenty-somethings of the last generation, or the one before that, were NOT buying big bright Harleys with their huge paychecks; that was the older guys, already established, or guys who had NOT wasted $150,000 on a college degree that they had never used, but had apprenticed into a trade and had a reliable job and paycheck.
I was 26, and still very early in my career when I bought my first new any motor vehicle. It was a Harley (XL1200 Sportster). I took out a loan and couldn't afford to keep my used car too. I hadn't bought a house yet either.
I was 28, and still struggling when I bought a new Road King.
The thing about generalizations is that they are always wrong, even if they're right.
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I was 26, and still very early in my career when I bought my first new any motor vehicle. It was a Harley (XL1200 Sportster). I took out a loan and couldn't afford to keep my used car too. I hadn't bought a house yet either.
I was 28, and still struggling when I bought a new Road King.
The thing about generalizations is that they are always wrong, even if they're right.
Generalizations are useful, though; we use them all the time to live our lives and make our decisions. We don't say "Well USUALLY if you try to start a fire with gasoline it'll burn you, but I don't know for a fact that that's ALWAYS true so I'll try it again."
If you were 26 years old today, you wouldn't be moving in with your parents, enslaved to your cell phone and social media, unable to support yourself, unable to get a job, etc, like pittsburghguzzi indicates is the norm for modern millenials. Neither would I. My sons are 31 and 32 and they haven't had any of those problems.
Come to think of it, we just now got done talking about this on two different threads ... it always seems to go the same way. People that are going to "make it" will make it; people that aren't will have whatever this generations' excuses are for why it's SO hard ....
Lannis
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Geeze guys, this was meant to be
hu·mor
/ˈ(h)yo͞omər/
noun
noun: humour; noun: humor; noun: cardinal humor; plural noun: cardinal humors
1.
the quality of being amusing or comic, especially as expressed in literature or speech.
"his tales are full of humor"
synonyms: comedy, comical aspect, funny side, fun, amusement, funniness, hilarity, jocularity; More
absurdity, ludicrousness, drollness;
satire, irony, farce
"the humor of the film"
•the ability to express humor or make other people laugh.
"their inimitable brand of humor"
2.
a mood or state of mind.
"her good humor vanished"
synonyms: mood, temper, disposition, temperament, nature, state of mind, frame of mind; spirits
"his good humor was infectious"
I'm goin' riding! :bike-037:
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Geeze guys, this was meant to be
hu�mor
/
And it's still "humorous". Why would you think it's not? :wink: Pajamas, selfies, Starbucks, nose rings ...
Saying "millenials" is like saying "Dolly Parton". You KNOW what the first thing that everyone's going to say is ....
Lannis
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I first started riding MCs back in 1962. Then you could get a new 250 2 smoke twin Yamaha for $500. I was making $2+/hr. working part time @ US post office as sub-clerk working swing shift 30/hrs./week going to Jr. college, sharing a 1 bedroom apt. with another young guy doing the same. He had an Austin Healey 100-6 and I had my 250 bike. We both made just enough to get by. We had no TV in furnished apt. but did have a record player.
After that I spent 2 years in the US Navy during Vietnam and then was able to use the GI bill to help pay for my other 2 years of College @ Cal State Fullerton. Back then `68 to `70 it only cost me like $200 a semester + books to finish school.
I know cost of education varies a lot depending what state you reside in and if it's a private or public college, but what the students have to pay nowadays is outrageous compared to what it used to be back in the 60s-70's.
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A few days ago I was riding home when I spotted a rider and passenger broke down in the median on a very busy road. I doubled back to find a young kid (maybe 19) and his girlfriend next to a very ratty and very broken Kawasaki Ninja 300. The poor bike had seen better days. The left side was rough, turn signal dangling from the wire, clutch lever bend almost back on itself. The bike would (seemingly) click into gear, but revved freely with no movement when you let the clutch out. Something let go in the tranny or clutch. Anyway, I told him it wasn't a roadside fix and helped him push it to a safer location around the corner. I offered to get my truck, but his girlfriend said they would just call her mom for a ride. I feel safe in saying he was riding it because it was all he could afford. A lot more things competing for one's dollar these days...cell phones, computers, cable TV, Netflix, etc. Yesterdays luxury is todays necessity. I feel bad that I didn't do more to help this kid out. His bike may cost more to repair than it's worth. I'd hate for someone to give up riding because of some bad luck. I've been fortunate to be able to ride for over 45 years. We need to put some effort into sharing that passion with younger people. Give back, as it were.
I agree! I was thinking of giving my 1971 Honda CB 750 Chopper to some hard working 17 year old kid someday, but then the other part of my brain told me if they dont work for it and pay for it, they wont appreciate it. I guess, but you are right, giving back as it were is a great idea if one can do it.
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Reasons why old people don't ride motorcycles :
A. There bellies are so big that they don't fit anymore .
B. They are too busy sitting in the barcolaounger watching reality TV.
C Riding interferes with Tee Time
D They can't bend over far enough to put on riding boots .(see A.)
E. Gotta mow the yard
F. Can't get the bike out of the garage because of all the "valuable" stuff piled around it .
G. Lost the keys .
H. Can't find their fringed chaps .
Dusty
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Good stuff. But #20 went right over my head. Can someone explain?
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you old guys really need to get out of your bubbles & maybe actually meet a real life millennial
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you old guys really need to get out of your bubbles & maybe actually meet a real life millennial
I agree .
Dusty
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you old guys really need to get out of your bubbles & maybe actually meet a real life millennial
I raised two of them. What about you? :popcorn:
Lannis
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I raised two of them. What about you? :popcorn:
Lannis
So did I.
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I raised two of them. What about you? :popcorn:
Lannis
So did I.
So do any of your kids fit the stereotypes?
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So did I.
Probably a LOT of people here did. It's beyond me how anyone could say they know ANYTHING about Millenials if they haven't dealt with 1995 middle-school peer pressure, 2000 "which sports team?", 1997 "What IS 'Odyssey of the Mind' and should we do it?', 1999 8th grade "Your son wrote an article for an 'underground' school paper", 2003 "I was accepted to the Air Force Academy but I'd rather enlist in the Marine Corps (??!!!???)" 2001 "Everyone else has a cell phone" 2002 "You got WHAT kind of ticket?" 2004 "You're taking WHO to the Senior Prom?" 2005 "WHAT GPA did you say you got for your freshman year? I couldn't have heard that right, what I heard started with a 1.!".
If you've been there, you know. And because we paid attention to how we raised them, and didn't let MTV and "The Village" raise them, they humorously fit NONE of the millenial stereotypes, the stereotypes humorously parodied in the opening post of the thread ....
Lannis
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I raised two of them. What about you? :popcorn:
Lannis
dang, so you are the dastardly knave handing out all those participation trophies!
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Poor kids. No matter what they do, they catch hell. If they buy old bikes and try to modify them, (like we did) wear old jeans and flannel shirts (like we did/do), we call them hipsters. "Why don't they invent their own thing?"
If they want nothing to do with the smelly old deathtraps, and buy a newish sportbike, they are Squids.
And, if they cannot be bothered with bikes and hot rods, they are Millenial pansies. I guess young and old laughing at each other is just part of the deal. Me, I'm just jealous of their shiney undamaged livers..... :thumb:
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dang, so you are the dastardly knave handing out all those participation trophies!
We didn't much go for that, despite the popularity of them .... ! Our motto was "Second Place = First Loser!" :evil:
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Poor kids. No matter what they do, they catch hell. If they buy old bikes and try to modify them, (like we did) wear old jeans and flannel shirts (like we did/do), we call them hipsters. "Why don't they invent their own thing?"
If they want nothing to do with the smelly old deathtraps, and buy a newish sportbike, they are Squids.
And, if they cannot be bothered with bikes and hot rods, they are Millenial pansies. I guess young and old laughing at each other is just part of the deal. Me, I'm just jealous of their shiney undamaged livers..... :thumb:
You need to either get down to Raleigh EuroBike Day in April, or experience it vicariously through my pics in (for example) this
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=75811.0
post.
One of the real pleasures of this get-together is seeing the home-made, I-did-it-my-way, stick-to-it-boy creations of the young folks that are putting these things together with NO money. I don't know how to spot a "hipster", but when I'm talking to some long-haired, wild-arsed 20-year-old who has built a "cafe" bike or a "tracker" bike out of some junked CX500 or C90 Honda or a KZ400 that someone put in the skip ... I have no fear for the future!
Maybe it's the exceptions that prove the rule ....
Lannis
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You need to either get down to Raleigh EuroBike Day in April, or experience it vicariously through my pics in (for example) this
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=75811.0
post.
One of the real pleasures of this get-together is seeing the home-made, I-did-it-my-way, stick-to-it-boy creations of the young folks that are putting these things together with NO money. I don't know how to spot a "hipster", but when I'm talking to some long-haired, wild-arsed 20-year-old who has built a "cafe" bike or a "tracker" bike out of some junked CX500 or C90 Honda or a KZ400 that someone put in the skip ... I have no fear for the future!
Maybe it's the exceptions that prove the rule ....
Lannis
Your photos in that link have "shelf lifed", but I get your drift, and would probably love that event.
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Your photos in that link have "shelf lifed", but I get your drift, and would probably love that event.
Really? I can see all of the photos ... or maybe that's because they were Photobucket at the time and I can see them but no one else can? If so, I apologize for the inconvenience on behalf of the money-grubbing bait-and-switch team at PB ... :angry:
Lannis
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So do any of your kids fit the stereotypes?
So here's the youngest posing on her Honda Rebel:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cLvtnc/IMG_2755.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cLvtnc)
She works hard, plays hard, owns her own house, and makes a whole lot more money than I did at her age.
The oldest one? Maybe a few millennial tendencies, but not many. When the Mrs and I talk about her we usually finish the discussion with "At least she hasn't done <fill in the blank>". We'll leave it at that.
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The thing about trends is they may identify with some portion of a group, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's even the majority never mind all.
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The thing about trends is they may identify with some portion of a group, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's even the majority never mind all.
Yep. Thing is, I don't think anyone is SAYING it's "all"; maybe not even that it's the majority.
But enough to notice; and (as we who can remember the past), different from the past ....
Lannis
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Yep. Thing is, I don't think anyone is SAYING it's "all"; maybe not even that it's the majority.
But enough to notice; and (as we who can remember the past), different from the past ....
Lannis
Many of the comments on these threads seem to suggest the belief that it is the majority.
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The thing about stereotypes is there is a trace of truth to it and there are those tendencies in most subjects (of course some turn out perfect, like they were raised in the 1950's or something). My two sons are very ordinary and typical, as are their friends. And while they all have smart phones and fact check everything you say and regularly check their social media, for the most part they are actually intelligent good kids that like to do cool things and have somewhat realistic views of the future. Just because some of those things aren't the way I imagine them to be, doesn't mean they are wrong.
I really think opportunity is a big factor in what they are able to accomplish. Several kids, who's Dads never turned a wrench or taught their sons to do it, took to wrenching on cars and bikes and had a lot of fun. They also thought tuning with diagnostic tools to be a piece of cake (very comfortable in the digital world). I think they will be OK and actually like them hanging out in my garage, as long as they stay out of my beer fridge.
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Going back to the original post, Rainwater is not hard water. It is distilled water, therefore soft.
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Perhaps each of us on WG should assign ourselves a sales quota this year:
Convince one person throughout the year to buy a New Guzzi, and simultaneously invite them to join WG here online.
Given the large of folks here and who also simultaneously participate in the MG Facebook page, there's a chance this could result in a moderate bump in new members and new owners over the course of time.
Cheers!
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Luap and I were discussing how to increase membership here , and help promote the brand . One of the ideas was to NOT insult young folks . There is a limited supply of us old guys , we really need young folks to join in , so let's not start dissing them . Agreed ?
Dusty
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And not get all grumpy to hell and back when someone asks a question that was covered in a thread three years ago. Please.
Luap and I were discussing how to increase membership here , and help promote the brand . One of the ideas was to NOT insult young folks . There is a limited supply of us old guys , we really need young folks to join in , so let's not start dissing them . Agreed ?
Dusty
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And not get all grumpy to hell and back when someone asks a question that was covered in a thread three years ago. Please.
Interestingly enough , we touched on that also . We were all neophytes at one time .
Dusty
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Luap and I were discussing how to increase membership here , and help promote the brand . One of the ideas was to NOT insult young folks . There is a limited supply of us old guys , we really need young folks to join in , so let's not start dissing them . Agreed ?
Dusty
+1 Brazilian
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Hey Dusty go ahead and delete the whole damn thread before we reach the dreaded �conjecture�
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Hey Dusty go ahead and delete the whole damn thread before we reach the dreaded �conjecture�
And we thought it was Humorous, shame on us you! This is why we can't have nice things .... :bow:
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And we thought it was Humorous, shame on us you! This is why we can't have nice things .... :bow:
It started that way , but then...
Dusty
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And we thought it was Humorous, shame on us you! This is why we can't have nice things .... :bow:
Yes, I'm a mean no good SOB! An insensitive lout! I feel TERRIBLE! I hope the kids can forgive me and not make some hashtag thingy about me :sad:
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<sigh>
Dusty
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That’s why I suggested above we all put on our sales hats and go and recruit...diplomati cally of course.
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When I am out riding it seems like a "younger rider" always comes up and says the usual
things...
What's that?
Didn't know they made them anymore.
What year is it?
A pleasant conversation always follows. I explain that you don't need 100+HP to have
fun and the way a bike handles has a LOT more input than mere numbers.
I tell them to check out this site and give them my Guzzi business card that I carry.
(My daughter made them for me and have been quite useful!!).
Does it help? Don't know.
But it is always nice to chat and promote the brand.
More often than not we leave together and they can see just how a Guzzi can handle...because this old guy is ahead of them!!!
We all share the same passion...
no matter what we ride.
Ride safe and often,
Jeff
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We didn't much go for that, despite the popularity of them .... ! Our motto was "Second Place = First Loser!" :evil:
As a guy, there's nothing wrong with coming second..!
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Luap and I were discussing how to increase membership here , and help promote the brand . One of the ideas was to NOT insult young folks . There is a limited supply of us old guys , we really need young folks to join in , so let's not start dissing them . Agreed ?
Dusty
Exactly.
When my Norton owning friends ask me why there are so many old guys who like Moto Guzzi, you know you have an image problem.
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Exactly.
When my Norton owning friends ask me why there are so many old guys who like Moto Guzzi, you know you have an image problem.
We want to be fair, though.
Every time we "dis" an old guy, we get to "dis" one young guy. How else are they going to learn to take it? They'll be on steel cut oats and viagra and knee replacements and cpaps and have gray beards and Dunlaps soon enough ... it's up to us to train them.
Lannis
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From the perspective of what you folks lovingly refer to as a millennial, I can tell you the biggest reason is a lot simpler than that: we can’t afford new motorcycles. We ESPECIALLY can’t afford the big-displacement, overpriced (cough - Harley - cough) motorcycles that the generation before us popularized so well. Things are different now. We can’t afford to “work and pay our way through college” anymore. More and more of us are being forced to move back in with parents. As costs of living outpace wage increases and job prospects, luxuries like new motorcycles feel just as out of reach as home ownership (you know, another market that millenials are killing, in addition to jewelry stores and Applebee’s).
If you’d take the time to actually observe and chat with a few of us confoundin, dagnabbin millenials, you’ll see that we’re pretty huge fans of the vintage market, barn finds, and finding cheap bikes on Craigslist that we can afford to pick up. Scrape together a bit from our paychecks and make them our own. We love it. Here in Pittsburgh, I can name three cooperative shops in a 3 square mile area where a bunch of us rent a space, stock it with whatever tools we can afford, and wrench on our bikes. We buy old shop manuals off eBay, make tons of mistakes, create some really cool things, and absolutely love it. At 26, I’m fortunate enough to own three bikes so far. One of them I bought from my brother and pulled it out of a storage shed. The other two were bought used, one is a 2011 and the other a 2012. A truly new bike, the statistic with the storm cloud over it, is just out of reach for me (and almost every single one of my millenial riding buddies) for right now. We can’t afford new ones.
But trust me, we love motorcycles.
That’s not a whole lot different than when I grew up in the 60s, most of my fellow apprentices had beat up old Brit bikes from the 50s
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I think the real problem are the bike manufacturers and their unrealistic production and sales expectations. Did Harley Davidson really think they could continue to make and sell 350,000 bikes a year forever? I knew when they decided to stretch the production run of the 100th anniversary models to 14 months they were headed for a glut. I toured the Kansas City plant right after it opened, thinking, "my god, they've got more production space here than they could ever possibly use." But we've been down this road before. Anyone remember the Yamaha 550 Vision? Only imported for a couple of years...1982 and 83 I think. I wanted one of those so bad, especially the later faired version. Couldn't afford it, but the warehoused were filled with unsold ones. You could buy that bike (and other left-over models) several years later brand new. The glut of unsold Japanese bikes led to the "Harley Davidson" tariff on bikes over 700cc. The market will survive, but none of the manufacturers are going to sell as many $20,000 plus bikes as they thought they would. Things are going to be slow until the market works through the over-supply of nice used bikes out there. That will take several years.
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I think the real problem are the bike manufacturers and their unrealistic production and sales expectations. Did Harley Davidson really think they could continue to make and sell 350,000 bikes a year forever?
Probably not. But they'd have been crazy if they HADN'T produced and sold 350,000 bikes a year, or 200,000 or however many they could sell while the market for their product was hot.
No product lasts forever. AT&T phone rental ($2 a phone per year in 100,000,000 homes) worked for them for 100 years. Gillette made a fortune in double edged razor blades, and for 75 years you could do well owning Gillette stock. Eastman Kodak ... well, they rode it for 100 years while they could.
Same with Harley. If they planned right, they've amortized the cost of the facilities that produced the bikes they sold, and now it's time for them to move on. Just natural, no fault of Harley's ....
Lannis
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I think the real problem are the bike manufacturers and their unrealistic production and sales expectations. Did Harley Davidson really think they could continue to make and sell 350,000 bikes a year forever?
Absolutely agreed.
I mean:
1986: 36,735 bikes sold
2006: 349,196 bikes sold
That's meteoric. That's ~10x increase in two decades.
In the same time frame BMW Motorcycles grew at something like 1/4 that rate.
Where's Triumph these days, are they approaching 50k bike per year? That's less than how many Sportsters Harley STILL sells in a year.
How about Ducati?
Does BMW+Triumph+Ducati+Guzzi total sales = HD sales yet? That might be getting close now.
Maybe this will finally push Harley to broaden their outlook. Lord knows they could use it in some ways.
I may never forgive them about Buell...but bet they wish they had carried him and his products longer to see what they might have to offer today.
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MotorMike is right,
plenty of people are buying motorcycles, they just arent buing the new bikes manufactures are making.... $25,000 BMW adventure bikes and $20k 1800cc harleys arent selling.... Old used bikes and small displacement bikes are selling everywhere
Maybe my perspective is skewed because I live in a motorcycle mecca, but I know more ppl riding than ever
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From the perspective of what you folks lovingly refer to as a millennial, I can tell you the biggest reason is a lot simpler than that: we can�t afford new motorcycles. We ESPECIALLY can�t afford the big-displacement, overpriced (cough - Harley - cough) motorcycles that the generation before us popularized so well. Things are different now. We can�t afford to �work and pay our way through college� anymore. More and more of us are being forced to move back in with parents. As costs of living outpace wage increases and job prospects, luxuries like new motorcycles feel just as out of reach as home ownership (you know, another market that millenials are killing, in addition to jewelry stores and Applebee�s).
If you�d take the time to actually observe and chat with a few of us confoundin, dagnabbin millenials, you�ll see that we�re pretty huge fans of the vintage market, barn finds, and finding cheap bikes on Craigslist that we can afford to pick up. Scrape together a bit from our paychecks and make them our own. We love it. Here in Pittsburgh, I can name three cooperative shops in a 3 square mile area where a bunch of us rent a space, stock it with whatever tools we can afford, and wrench on our bikes. We buy old shop manuals off eBay, make tons of mistakes, create some really cool things, and absolutely love it. At 26, I�m fortunate enough to own three bikes so far. One of them I bought from my brother and pulled it out of a storage shed. The other two were bought used, one is a 2011 and the other a 2012. A truly new bike, the statistic with the storm cloud over it, is just out of reach for me (and almost every single one of my millenial riding buddies) for right now. We can�t afford new ones.
Gen X here. Nothing different... except it never crossed my mind to miove into my parent's, we just rented shithole basement apartments in the shitty part of town and ate NoName ramen. My early bikes were rats, complete and total ratbikes. My SOHC CB750 was held together with wishes and electrical tape. I don't think I paid more than $500 for a bike until my mid 30s, at which point I bought an $1100 CB750 SOHC. My first new bike came at the ripe old age of 42. New bikes haven't been in reach for late teen/ 20/ early 30s for a few generations. I don't know anyone (outside of Boom/bust olfield and related industry employees) that was able to buy new toys at a young age.
But, it's all moot. We'll see the "death by regulation" of the internal combustion engine before I die.
The more things change...
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It is because people don't want to buy them any more.
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plenty of people are buying motorcycles, they just arent buing the new bikes manufactures are making.... $25,000 BMW adventure bikes and $20k 1800cc harleys arent selling.... Old used bikes and small displacement bikes are selling everywhere
I don't know a thing about who buys Harleys but I think the $25K BMW thing has about 5-10 more years to run, based on the average age and health of BMW club members I know well. They are the same people I knew who bought new BMWs 25 years ago, its just that now they can and do spend more, every couple of years. They're not stupid people and they know time for them individually is running out. In that context saving money isn't the main issue, and arguably spending more provides a status benefit that that is only possible within a short window of their riding career. It's a niche market, but one that earns good money per unit.
Otherwise, unlike motorcyclists in (say) 1971 when bikes were getting more practical and useful every year, we now have about 45 model years of used bikes that can provide reliable, fun riding. 1990s Italian stuff continues to be better and more exciting for me than anything made now. I'm younger than the BMW Club norm, can still work on my stuff (physically), would rather use my money elsewhere, and I don't feel the pressure to be seen on the newest and 'best' before my time runs out. I don't fit the niche.
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"1990 Italian stuff" :thumb:
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I'm not a (big)"data analyst", but let me throw this out- You could probably build a statistical model that predicts motorcycle sales based on the number of riding age people without children, disposable income, the price of entry level bikes, and how many people slip through the above filters than can ride a bicycle and shift gears. That statistical model would tell you that HOG(NYSE) is in deep trouble, the rest of the bike business is in for some tough years, and a manufacturer with the guts to disrupt the market with an affordable 3 wheeler with an automatic tranny and maybe electric propulsion is gonna make a killing...
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For your consideration, the HoverRound XHD Fat Bob:
(https://www.hoveround.com/Hoveround/media/Image-Library-Kentico/Product%20images/Home%20Grid%20Items/hoveround-xhd-heavy-duty-power-wheelchair-sm.jpg?width=342&height=346&ext=.jpg)