Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lumpy Idle on March 29, 2018, 10:55:49 AM
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this youtube viddy showed up on my screen and i watched it. go to 1:20 to see it just before the crash. i don't understand what happened to the first rider that made him ride off the road. he wasn't going all that fast and he just seemed to lose the road. any insights on this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Z6w_rBsf0
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lead bike looks like a Scurra or V11 Sport.. maybe he felt there was no more lean left and stood it up to brake? but looks to me like he could have easily made the curve with a little more courage.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/fpfxX7/Screen_Shot_2018_03_29_at_11_05_33_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/fpfxX7)
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Everyone will have a different view.
Mine is:
1) As the narrator says, he didn't know the guy in front, and was no longer riding "his own ride"; he was riding to keep up with the front guy.
2) The front guy was riding way too fast for his ability, and low-sided on the left-hand turn; whether his bike scraped hardware and lifted the back, or whether he panicked and jerked off the throttle or hit the brake, I don't know.
3) The camera guy was riding far too fast for his own ability to stop. The front guy crashed, and the guy in back was too close, too fast, and couldn't stop.
Just going too fast to keep control of their bikes, that's all ... This is a perfect example of why I discount "fast street riding" as a measure of riding ability or bike performance. You're not showing "how fast you can ride"; you're showing how willing you are to crash if something on the road isn't ideal. The track, now, that's a different story ....
Lannis
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The lead bike got too wide in the corner , panicked , and appeared to stand the bike up instead of trusting in the laws of physics . He may have ran into some detritus on the road , hard to tell . But yeah , maybe riding faster than he was comfortable .The crasher may have also target fixated on the Armco barrier . The camera guy could possibly have avoided crashing by going to his left instead of simply cranking up his brakes , but all in all it could have been worse . At least the camera guy possessed the "cool" to give a warning to the following riders .
Dusty
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set up. they just wanted to be a youtube sensation. :rolleyes:
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set up. they just wanted to be a youtube sensation. :rolleyes:
Sliding into a guardrail at speed may mean that you don't get to see your own video go viral ... so I still think the testosterone/speed/skill cocktail probably meets the Occam's Razor test ... :angel:
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Sliding into a guardrail at speed may mean that you don't get to see your own video go viral ... so I still think the testosterone/speed/skill cocktail probably meets the Occam's Razor test ... :angel:
so, you're saying it was an accident? :shocked:
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Pure speculation obviously... but what I see is the front rider scraped hard stuff, and shit himself. There's that tell tale deep lean, followed by a super quick "oh shit" standup. Add in a little "that guardrail looks awfully close" target fixation and that's all she wrote.
Notice he heads *directly* for the only yellow sign on the side of the road. I'm guessing that's all he was seeing for that last couple seconds.
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so, you're saying it was an accident? :shocked:
Actually, no, I don't use that word any more in regards to road crashes (unless I forget).
Almost nothing bad that happens on the road is an "accident", except in the sense that after it happens, we wish it hadn't happened. A tree falling on your car while you're stopped at a light, or an eagle flying into your driver window at 65 MPH might qualify, but all the rest (running off the road, hitting a car from behind, sliding on ice or water, etc) are due to going too fast, not knowing how to control your vehicle, driving impaired, or someone not paying attention to what they're doing.
In this case, it was three people riding too fast for their sight line and riding abilities.
I thought you were joking when you suggested that it might have been staged. Don't think you'll get many votes for that ... !
Lannis
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looks like he got spooked, his head looks like he was looking down. his unsecured backpack flopping around was a contributing factor
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I was surprised when he wiped out, looked like he was an experienced rider but he wasn't the first to crash just there, hopefully not too badly hurt. I'll bet he's on VII Lemans.
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Great how the second rider (filmer) says "I'm not mad", like any other person was responsible for his crash other than himself for tailgating. The front rider should be pissed off at the extra damage to his bike.
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Too hot and n the curve for his ridding ability.
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Who starts a curve on the inside like that?
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lead bike looks like a Scura or V11 Sport.. maybe he felt there was no more lean left and stood it up to brake? but looks to me like he could have easily made the curve with a little more courage.
What happened is that the lead rider dragged the V11 Sport side stand slightly, you can see the sparks, it bobbled slightly and instead of retaking control he gave up, straightened up and rode off the side of the road. His lack of skill is what caused the accident, compounded by the second guy following too closely. One of the following riders was then unable to brake and steer smoothly enough to remain upright even when there was no chance he was going to hit anything using smooth normal braking and staying on the road. A sport touring street pace bobble leading to a substantial three bike accident, all caused by lack of experience, lack of skill, and probably being too excited.
I've watched accidents like these for 35 years. I remember so distinctly following a guy, I forget his name, doing the same thing on a 900 Ninja circa 1986 and wondering why the heck he did that. The first of many. Similar accidents don't occur nearly as much to the new rider who spends a year or so following somebody around who knows what they're doing, and after being on the receiving end many years ago, I've been on the giving end quite a bit. The issue with these kids is that they probably don't know what they don't know. You can sometimes get their attention prior to an accident by showing them how its done on the road - in my case circa 1984 an 'old guy' passed me like I was standing still and I followed him and his bunch for the next 10+ years before I was in their position. At (now) age 85 or so, he still kids me about saying "you go pretty fast for a bunch of old guys" after that first ride :grin:
What you do in this particular circumstance is first take a better line and if you do drag, roll off about half way, keep counter steering because the bike will want to stand up when you gently roll off, and then once the road speed has decreased slightly and the stand is no longer dragging, you carry on. If you're on a slight uphill grade as these guys appeared to be, the bike will slow markedly quicker than on a flat road.
The rubber side stand pad on a V11 Sport can be shortened from about 3/8 inch to 1/8 inch. You can also reshape the foot of the stand so that it is narrower and less triangular in shape. It drags quite easily in stock form and although the lead rider was unskilled in handling the resulting minor bobble, its always better to have the additional clearance if you can arrange it.
Its not a particularly good idea to wear a back pack when sport riding.
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Too hot and n the curve for his ridding ability.
His ridding ability seemed pretty smooth up to the crash.
He entered the corner too narrow requiring a tighter radius turn for the speed he was carrying.
His knee was pretty close to the ground on the earlier corners, actually reckon he's no slouch.
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Actually, no, I don't use that word any more in regards to road crashes (unless I forget).
Almost nothing bad that happens on the road is an "accident", except in the sense that after it happens, we wish it hadn't happened. A tree falling on your car while you're stopped at a light, or an eagle flying into your driver window at 65 MPH might qualify, but all the rest (running off the road, hitting a car from behind, sliding on ice or water, etc) are due to going too fast, not knowing how to control your vehicle, driving impaired, or someone not paying attention to what they're doing.
In this case, it was three people riding too fast for their sight line and riding abilities.
I thought you were joking when you suggested that it might have been staged. Don't think you'll get many votes for that ... !
Lannis
don't take these posts personally, BTW I not running for office, so vote for someone else
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don't take these posts personally, BTW I not running for office, so vote for someone else
I don't think you're in my district anyhow .... :wink:
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I don't think you're in my district anyhow .... :wink:
Thank you Lord!
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Thank you Lord!
Hey, don't take it personally ... :shocked:
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Everyone pretty much called it. The lead guy knew he was being filmed, the camera guy was well below ability but following too closely and got caught off guard.
Notice the geography, though. A pretty steep downhill, which acts like a decreasing radius and reduces traction on the front wheel. The two riders screwing the pooch behind them show just how easy it is to get in too deep in that particular corner.
None of them had to crash, it appeared to me that anyone comfortable in the performance envelope of those machines could have kept #1 on the road, missed #1 with #2, and missed/stopped without skidding and tipping over #3 & 4.
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Intellect meets Physics . :bike-037:
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Darn! Nothing like that ever happened to me! :embarrassed:
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lead bike looks like a Scurra or V11 Sport.. maybe he felt there was no more lean left and stood it up to brake? but looks to me like he could have easily made the curve with a little more courage.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/fpfxX7/Screen_Shot_2018_03_29_at_11_05_33_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/fpfxX7)
Looks like an Ohlin front end. Parts for sale??? The camera dude never practice a full lock up on the brakes. The rider looks like he's over doing the body-english. The camera dude after the accident is standing down stream of the accident and using some dubious hand signals. Not a good idea with other bikes headed towards him.
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Or he could have simply ridden a little slower.
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His ridding ability seemed pretty smooth up to the crash.
He entered the corner too narrow requiring a tighter radius turn for the speed he was carrying.
His knee was pretty close to the ground on the earlier corners, actually reckon he's no slouch.
Lol, like I said, he hit the curve to hot for his ridding abilities.
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look at 1.26 there is a dark mark on the road looks like rear tire was right on it rear tire broke loose got off throtle try to chase it up ran out of real estate
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That's why I ride alone.
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Darn! Nothing like that ever happened to me!
I wish I could say the same but Ive ridden over the top of a bike I was moments before following. In this case it wasnt because I was following particularly close, it was because the leading bike was hit head on by another motorcycle coming the other way, out of control and crossing the double yellow line. The whole mess stopped instantly in front of me, some of it came back to meet me, and right over the top I went like some kind of stunt rider. Oddly and luckily enough l didnt even come off the bike, a very directionally stable Le Mans.
Agreed that the lead rider in this incident was over doing the alligator wrestling body English. If he had used the energy involved with jumping all over the bike to simply position the bike on a better line, he would have been better off. As with most things, its not making a big effort that gets the job done, its doing the right thing at the right time.
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Too hot and n the curve for his ridding ability.
Watched the video twice...and that's my thoughts exactly! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
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so slow down on public roads, don't ride over your head and don't tailgate.
I've made all 3 mistakes. And paid the price.
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Slow in , fast out , eyes open , brain engaged .
Dusty
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Lol, like I said, he hit the curve to hot for his ridding abilities.
Also target fixated...
When he panicked, he was staring at the guardrail, where he should had been looking down the curve
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That's why I ride alone.
That's a good point, and combines with the general "You should slow down" advice.
SAYING "slow down" is like saying "You should lose weight". Good advice, and it will have the intended result IF you do it, but making yourself do it is the hard part.
If you're alone it's easy. Nothing at all driving you but your own comfort zone. If you've decided to go a little faster than usual, you're usually very wide awake about it, and it's only marginally more dangerous than going a few miles per hour slower
BUT if you're riding WITH someone, it's 4 times as hard. You don't want to look like a piker, you don't want to be holding people up, you want to be "with" the other guys, even if their risk-averseness is on another level down from you. And so you tend to ride at the speed they're going, otherwise what's the point of riding "with" someone?
I'm not saying you're FORCED to ride faster, any more than you're FORCED to eat more at the full buffet that the guys took you to, when you were just going to get a salad at Appleby's. But the tendency and the temptation is there, and you got to recognize it or soon you'll be saying "Why did I do that? What was I thinking?"
I ride with other people, but it's always people I know - The 3rd Saturday Guzzi lunch guys, the Blowing Rock old Britbike ride, my son, the guy up the road who rides faster than me but he just has to wait for me. I can't remember the last time I rode with someone I didn't know well enough to have the "I'm not going to try to keep up" discussion with .... !
Lannis
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Not a Scura. Standard V11 Sport from 2003/2004.
The guy bailed on the turn. As mentioned. Lost his nerve and stood it up.
I've seen this happen many times back when I was in the moto business and riding a lot of group rides. One of the reasons I pretty much quit riding group rides with people I don't know.
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Sounds harsh, but, if anyone can't do a 100% correct post-mortem of this debacle, then lots more study, training, and track time is suggested.
Start here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1889540536/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1889540536/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Follow up with Hough's other books; it's very worthwhile reading for any expertise level.
These sorts of crashes bother me; the fools who do it then refuse to take responsibility and revert to talking about how dangerous motorcycling is, without having understood that before buying a bike and taken precautions by learning basics.
The starting point is that the vast majority of crashes are caused by rider error, including the time I hit a deer at 75 MPH. I was 100% at fault for not appreciating where I was, the season, and by cruising at 85 MPH right before the crash, etc.
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Not a Scura. Standard V11 Sport from 2003/2003.
The guy bailed on the turn. As mentioned. Lost his nerve and stood it up.
I've seen this happen many times back when I was in the moto business and riding a lot of group rides. One of the reasons I pretty much quit riding group rides with people I don't know.
Same here Mike . The few group rises we participate in are always at Guzzi gatherings where everyone seems to be competent , and the "red mist" never makes an appearance . Last fall at the Okie, Delrod , Davedel and I rode over to the Lodge , then on the return trip Delrod wanted to get back to the camp ground so he went on . He commented after Dave and I returned that we had obviously picked up the pace because we were only a minute or so later returning . It brought me great satisfaction to watch a flat lander like Dave become much smoother and quicker on the 40 mile return trip along the mountain road . I mean this as a compliment to Dave , being willing to learn and apply what he had learned . In the process I also thought about the lesson , and had a learning moment or two . Not that I am all that fast , but seem to keep up with some fast guys W/O crashing . Point is , we are never too old to acquire knowledge and apply it to our riding :thumb:
Dusty
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I didn't see any sparks or wobble. He entered that curve way to low/early and then freaked. Just before impact he puts his left leg down on the pavement as he stands the bike straight up as he leaves the pavement hitting the guard rail. He was badly hurt He could not get up. His right leg was working but he could not move his left leg as he tried to roll over and get up. Even if he couldn't ride it out he might have been better off low siding it vs hitting the guard rail straight up. The Ducati camera guy was extremely lucky and stupid.
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I smart guy once said this about musicians:
The difference between an Amatuer and Professional is that an Amatuer practices until he gets it right.
A Professional practices until he can't get it wrong.
I don't think anyone on the board is being paid to ride.
(https://tacticalprofessor.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/phil-esterhaus.jpg?w=640)
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The lead bike got too wide in the corner , panicked , and appeared to stand the bike up instead of trusting in the laws of physics . He may have ran into some detritus on the road , hard to tell . But yeah , maybe riding faster than he was comfortable .The crasher may have also target fixated on the Armco barrier . The camera guy could possibly have avoided crashing by going to his left instead of simply cranking up his brakes , but all in all it could have been worse . At least the camera guy possessed the "cool" to give a warning to the following riders .
Dusty
I agree in theory...The rider may have used the front brake , the bike stoop up and ran wide .....On a Tonti frame Guzzi I went into a 50 mph turn too fast and used the front brake, the bike stood up but I was fortunate having just enough road to make it through ok...I won't do that again...
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I agree in theory...The rider may have used the front brake , the bike stoop up and ran wide .....On a Tonti frame Guzzi I went into a 50 mph turn too fast and used the front brake, the bike stood up but I was fortunate having just enough road to make it through ok...I won't do that again...
Standing up on the front brake is common to lots of bikes , but not something I've really noticed to be a problem on Tonti frames , or maybe I just expect it to happen and compensate , dunno . No doubt when it happens unexpectedly it is , er , unsettling :shocked:
Dusty
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Standing up on the front brake is common to lots of bikes , but not something I've really noticed to be a problem on Tonti frames , or maybe I just expect it to happen and compensate , dunno . No doubt when it happens unexpectedly it is , er , unsettling :shocked:
Dusty
Yes, I just mentioned it because it happened on a Guzzi....My Ducati 900 M will also stand up.....Modern bikes have more cornering potential than I do as a rider. Riding hard it's easy to reach a point beyond which you feel comfortable or unable to put enough force into the bars to lean over more....So the rider thinks he is gong to run wide and "instinctively" tries to slow down using the front brake..
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The guy who started California Superbike Schools has a good term for what happened here. - he calls it a “survival reaction.” SRs are intuitive reactions to trouble that are the wrong thing to do because they are counter to the laws of physics. One of the first SRs is the reflex to brake hard when you go in too fast. As others on this thread have said, hard braking will stand the bike up, and make it run wide, which seems to be what happened here.
When I was racing cars, people used to tell me “you need big balls to do that.” That’s totally wrong. Racing (or riding motorcycles too fast on public roads) is a thinking person’s game. You need to have the force of mind to overcome the SRs. The big balls guys are the ones who crash.
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The guy who started California Superbike Schools has a good term for what happened here. - he calls it a �survival reaction.� SRs are intuitive reactions to trouble that are the wrong thing to do because they are counter to the laws of physics.
That was what sent me over the last time it happened (six years ago now, my how time flies!).
Following someone (Factor Number 1) in Nova Scotia (Factor Number 2 [unfamiliar, distracting]), who was using a GPS to guide us (Factor Number 3 [it 'guided us' to a substandard road]), we were riding down a gravel road when the lead rider came to a sudden stop. The gravel road intersected with a paved road, and the pavement had pea-gravel from the gravel road all over it.
I was too close (in an unfamiliar place, didn't want to lose him), watching him rather than my own ride (group ride danger), and when the bike wouldn't stop because the front was sliding on gravel, I did that "survival reaction" thing and squeezed the Stelvio's brake harder ("Stop, I Command You To STOP!") and over we went at about 5 MPH.
I was wearing compromise foot gear (we were doing a lot of walking while we were touring so I just had high-top leather street shoes on); if I had my Sidi/Aerostich Combat Touring boots on, I wouldn't have gotten a high ankle sprain that had me limping for a month, nor the nylon from my SealSkinz sock melted onto my calf.
A good example of "Stupid Should Hurt" and it did and (wonder of wonders) I don't do that any more. At least I try not to; reflex is a hard thing to beat.
Lannis
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There are a couple places where I intentionally come in hot, leaned over using a lot of front brake. I have done this so often that I have progressively been doing it faster and faster. I do it to just feel my bikes leaning and braking hard, and to be used to it. Kind of like practicing emergency braking. Problem is they are almost all right handers. Hope I can do a left hander as well.
On a positive note, I don't panic and chop throttle when the back end steps out because my reaction time has slowed down so much. Age has it's advantages. :grin:
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The guy who started California Superbike Schools has a good term for what happened here. - he calls it a �survival reaction.� SRs are intuitive reactions to trouble that are the wrong thing to do because they are counter to the laws of physics. One of the first SRs is the reflex to brake hard when you go in too fast. As others on this thread have said, hard braking will stand the bike up, and make it run wide, which seems to be what happened here.
I took Keith Code's course and though out the course he reminded the class when in doubt grab more bar and apply more throttle.
In these to frames this guy didn't just grab front brake. He sat upright (as he target fixated?) and also put his leg out on the pavement acting as a lever arm inducing the bike upright. Look how much pavement he has left in the 1st photo and that is after he pulled his knee into the bike and is sitting upright. He already had given up. And in the next frame he is still on the pavement and he makes it worse putting his left leg on the pavement. BTW the left leg was not working after he crashed. He couldn't use it trying to sit up. He might have been lucky if he just broke the leg vs a broken pelvis or worse a spinal cord injury.
(https://image.ibb.co/kOfYqS/sitting_uprign_on_pavement.png)
(https://image.ibb.co/i3nUVS/leg_out_and_body_upright.png)
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(https://image.ibb.co/kOfYqS/sitting_uprign_on_pavement.png)
(https://image.ibb.co/i3nUVS/leg_out_and_body_upright.png)
I looked at the film again after your still shots and analysis, and saw it in a new light. You're right, he didn't do a hard low-side, he bailed out and target-fixated. If he'd tightened up his turn and stayed off the brakes, he'd likely have made it.
If it were an aviation accident, it would have been in the "CFIT" category for sure ....
Lannis
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These still shots kind of remind me of an incident I had 7 or 8 years ago.
I had already done 400 miles that day and was following a friend on a sport bike thru a series of 20 MPH curves. On the last right hander I didn't get the ball of my foot on the peg and it landed in the arch area with my toe pointed pretty well down. As I leaned the bike the toe of my boot caught and started folding back on the pavement leverage on the peg. It was a bit of an "Oh Sh&#" moment. I had to stand the bike up a bit, clear my foot, then get back into the lean quick. I ended up near or on the double yellow only because I was at the apex and on the inside of the lane on the right turn when the boot caught. And fortunately the car coming the other way was in their lane and hadn't crossed into mine. At the time it seemed like a pretty close pass. That woke me up to how tired and sloppy I was getting. Time for a break and to refocus!
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I looked at the film again after your still shots and analysis, and saw it in a new light. You're right, he didn't do a hard low-side, he bailed out and target-fixated. If he'd tightened up his turn and stayed off the brakes, he'd likely have made it.
If it were an aviation accident, it would have been in the "CFIT" category for sure ....
Lannis
I still think he when into the turn faster that his skills, hit the front brake, the bike stood up running ride and he then target fixated on the guard rail and tried to exit on the left...
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I still think he when into the turn faster that his skills, hit the front brake, the bike stood up running ride and he then target fixated on the guard rail and tried to exit on the left...
I agree.
Lannis
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There was no brake light showing .
Dusty
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I am not sure on the brake light. Chopping the throttle is another survival reaction which produces the same unhappy result. Chopping usually precedes the panic braking.
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There was no brake light showing .
Dusty
I missed that. So he wasn't braking? Just gliding off throttle and no counter steering and sitting up in the saddle eventually with his leg out on the pavement .....in panic/target fixation.
Here is the last frame of him still upright with his leg still on the ground. He looks like he is going to high side as the bike is low siding under him.
And NO brake light.
(http://image.ibb.co/n6CUFS/last_frame_high_side.png)
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The way I see it (without reading others thoughts first), there were several things contributing to this.
1) He apparently was riding outside of his comfort zone. I think they were pushing it, and sometimes the guy right behind you can be stressful in making the lead bike think "I'm boring him and need to speed up". This is one reason I only ride with a handful of people in the twisties.
2) He started that last hairpin curves line way too close to the center of his lane. Should have been as far outside his lane as possible to start. I wonder if he's ridden this road before...
3) He panicked and let off the throttle when he seen that white line. It would not have happened if he performed #2 correctly. I don't think he hit a brake at all.
I have done #3 a time or two myself when coming too hot for my britches. Once was on my 73 Eldo. I was almost flattened by an oncoming car. That one bugged me a lot and I didn't ride for a few weeks after that. I've taught against it and did it myself. But yet again, another time I was too hot into a curve on my 2000 Quota. I stuck with it and rode it out. My brother in law was behind me. I rode in the weed filled ditch and finally got back on the highway. He said all he seen was the top of my helmet bobbing up and down in the ditch. When I stopped, I spent probably 30 minutes pulling weeds out of the bike and another 30 checking my britches and chain smoked 5 cigarettes in a row.
I've slowed down a lot since then. Now, I'll go look at all the other answers and see what those thoughts are.
Be careful folks,
Luap
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Lead guy ran out of talent and panicked.
Trailer was too close. He helped push the leader faster by riding that close.
On track, no, but on street, way too close for anything near 8/10 riding.
But most mountain runs at speed have potential for an around the curve disaster.
CFIT :thumb:
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I think he ran wide and lost the front tire on the paint stripe.
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this one is easy............he went where he looked .......
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5 minutes on youtube is more than enough to convince me I don't need a GoPro camera to document my failings... :tongue:
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5 minutes on youtube is more than enough to convince me I don't need a GoPro camera to document my failings... :tongue:
:laugh:
Yep .
Dusty
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Random crap like the dark van pulling over to let them fly by ruined their day. Had it stayed it's course slowing the group down they probably would've made it home ok.
It was the van's fault.
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1) He apparently was riding outside of his comfort zone. I think they were pushing it, and sometimes the guy right behind you can be stressful in making the lead bike think "I'm boring him and need to speed up". This is one reason I only ride with a handful of people in the twisties.
Luap
The guy that canned actually roared past at the start of the video and took the lead. Probably felt he had to justify doing that.
Those still shots were enlightening.
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Looks like he's doing about 60 mph on a 20 mph curve (estimate from his speedometer and compared to the sign right before the curve)....he took one look at the turn and stood it up...just a plain panic situation. Seems like 2 x the posted speed limit is what most folks are comfortable with... at 3x...that was beyond the skill level.
No idea how heavy his backpack is and I know some folks do ride with one, but if there's a lot of weight in there, that can be a barrier to moving quickly around on the bike as well...momentum being the factor there, no idea if that contributed here to him pulling up on the bars and straightening out.
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he went where he looked ........., he wasnt to fast , he didnt have a bad line , he looked at the guard rail and rode to it and crashed ...simple ..
you go where you look ....
watch the vid and look through the corner...if he would have done that he would have been fine :cool:
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Also target fixated...
When he panicked, he was staring at the guardrail, where he should had been looking down the curve
:1: you go where you look
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I'd call it multi layered foolishness as the cause.
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He choose a BAD line plain and simple. Add to that like some earlier said he was taking a 20 MPH curve (decreasing radius) at 60 MPH.
Where would you guys begin your line in this curve and would dive into full tilt this early in the curve?
(http://image.ibb.co/g8hP6c/curve_1.png)
(http://image.ibb.co/eoRvCH/curve_2.png)
(http://image.ibb.co/mzJHsH/curve_3.png)
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Random crap like the dark van pulling over to let them fly by ruined their day. Had it stayed it's course slowing the group down they probably would've made it home ok.
It was the van's fault.
LOL!
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Looks to me like a typical sport riding off. The guy was probably a decent rider that just got a few things wrong in a corner and then it all went wrong (he bailed on it). Happens to people who are going to ride in a sporting manner. The better riders, who don't crash in that instance, are the ones that recognize the first error early and don't compound it by making more. As we get older, and our reflexes and mental processing slow down, those kind of things are likely to happen more often than when we were younger and on top of our game. That is as long as we get by the learning stage when young and indestructible.
Personally, I don't do much more than double the corner speed signs and that's only on a road I know. If I don't know the road, it's usually a bit less. And my trail riding has slowed to a crawl anymore. Getting older sucks!
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Searching YouTube for "motorcycle crashes" is an unending source of both education and head scratching for me.
The proximate cause of almost every crash is a rider going [way] too fast for conditions [traffic, weather, visibility, traction, etc etc).
I'm undecided if secondary involvment in someone else's crash, or a random attack from some cage, always qualifies as one's own fault.
'Geezer