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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lannis on March 30, 2018, 03:14:32 PM
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Fay and I need to overhaul our riding gear; it's getting worn out.
Helmets, we can do ... our local shop will order two or three of the sort we like in different sizes and let us try them on. Although we're looking at wireless intercoms for our really long trips these days, I suppose I'll have to learn to speak Sena or something.
Boots, we got good ones, waterproof, comfortable.
So the big question - Do we buy gear (jacket and pants) that's already waterproof (Rukka, Klim, Aerostich, etc) so we dont have to always stop and put it on and off if rain threatens and quits, but therefore by definition is heavier, warmer, and less ventilated ... or do we buy gear that is comfortable, layerable, light and cool but then have to be always stopping on inconvenient road shoulders and fighting our boots in and out of rain gear? And after a change or two (usually after a cloudburst comes a period of intense heat and sunlight and you'd steam inside your rainsuit like a broccoli stalk if you didn't shed it), the suit is wet inside and out and getting YOU wet, I guess you know the tune.
We've got a couple of long trips planned including much of the US West, and want to be able to handle 90+ degree days on the road behind a fairing. We can do that in our current gear (ventilated and mesh), but it's not waterproof. We've never ridden in Aerostich or Rukka gear, so don't know how we'd handle hot weather all day.
Not worried about cost, this stuff is important and will probably last us at least half of the rest of our riding lives .... or more, you never know .... What's the best waterproof/ventilation compromise ... ?
Lannis
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Good conundrum! The Aerostitch guys love them. You just wear less underneath them for hotter weather. I have the other problem going hot to cold/wet. I have a pile of cold weather stuff that I have but rarely use.
When I come over for my Summer ride, it's a "crap shoot" on gear. I have to lug everything on a plane first so that limits me. I did leave my rain gear with the bike. I use that as a outer layer over everything else.
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Got to get w/the Jet Set Lannis, everyone knows it's a thong & flip-flops!!! :grin:
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Got to get w/the Jet Set Lannis, everyone knows it's a thong & flip-flops!!! :grin:
With a thong, the flip-flop would come along with that ... :embarrassed: :shocked:
It's not amazingly critical, the gear, people used to ride everywhere in the most basic of stuff and just suffered if it were too hot or cold or wet, but we're getting to the age where if comfort is available, we're willing to pay a little extra for it.
I HATE facing a long day's tour if I know I'm going to be miserably wet or hot or cold all day, I want to enjoy the ride, not be wishing it were over and I can peel out of miserable clothes. A couple ways to go, obviously.
The rain thing is tough ... is it going to be just a little light rain, no need in changing just for this, I can see the other side of the storm, we'll be dry again in 3 minutes ... then WHOOSH, a monsoon, and it's too late to put the wet gear on and now you'll never dry out until the jacket and pants are hanging from the TV set in the motel room ....
We're not camping on these trips, and I also carry a few tools and a small compressor, so the space and weight isn't TOO much of an issue, although you always have to be aware of that on a bike; the load seems to expand and get harder to pack every single day on a long trip ....
Lannis
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...I have found tour master to be my friend for the most part with a textile (Rincon,10 years old and still good but I don't think that is made anymore) jacket that has a linner (don't ride much when real cold (-25 deg F) ...
I've been wearing a TourMaster Transition 4 for a little over a year. I've been pleasantly surprised as to how well it works. It's primary use is cold weather riding. I have worn it in temperatures from 32 f up to 90. The jacket has lots of vents, but most have velcro flaps so it can take a bit of work to keep them open. I usually don't use it at temperatures above 70 degrees, so my hot weather riding experience with it is limited. It is in the current TourMaster catalog.
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Aerostich all the way. I prefer the Darien Jacket and pants. For summer use the light weight may be the way to go, but the standard weight has worked for me for many years.
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you can't beat the crash protection of an Aerostich Roadcrafter. the armor is superior.
it's pretty well vented but on real hot days I soak my t-shirt and open the vents, it's almost air conditioned then..
new suits have flaps that can cover your boots too.
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I've "retired" my old MotoPort suit to SoCal. It served me well for uhh, a few miles.. :smiley: but.
I hate the gortex inner liners. Yes, it works, but the outer jacket and pants get wet and stay wet for a long time.
Honestly, any more I'd just as soon have overpants. My Olympia jacket has a gortex waterproof membrane that can be worn inside or outside the jacket. I prefer to wear it outside if it looks like rain.
There is no perfect riding gear.
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There is no perfect riding gear.
I know. I'm just searching data for the best compromise if we're going to be on the road for a month in the USA in September, which will include high passes in Montana, and possibly HOT weather down in the plains, like it can be that time of year ....
It's tempting to get an all-weather outfit and quit toting rain gear .... and maybe if you carry enough water to pour down inside it if the land you have to cross between breakfast and dinner is 96 degrees and sunny ... it wouldn't be too bad?
I've sounded out Fay and she doesn't want a one-piece suit, so possibly the Roadcrafter two-piece or the Darien outfit or ... leather is nice and comfortable and protective, if Aerostich still made that "Transit" waterproof leather that might be good ... wonder why they quit making it?
Lannis
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I like the Aerostich gear. I still have to stop when it rains, though, but it's only to change gloves.
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I'm with Chuck, mostly. The textile stuff works well, but it gets all soggy on the outside, just feels wrong. And in my experience, some of them give up their waterproofness after a few years use.
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I rode all day in my 'stitch one piece. it is comfy but a hot s----mb---tch in the summer and a bitch to get in and out of. If I had it to do over, I'd get a two piece.
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You might shop around. The new textile stuff is very good. I picked up no brand jacket (Speed & Steel brand) at close out rack at an outdoor booth at COTA. The weather changed when I was riding back to OKC from MotoGP Austin. Rain, wind and cold. I am talking 30s, 45 mph north head wind, flurries and rain. This jacket is much better than my leather so far as warmth and rain. It's ventilated and armored. I wear it 8+ months, and slip into the mesh for summer.
Shop around. You might be surprised.
I wouldn't be shocked if you could find a good one at Cycle Gear.
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you can't beat the crash protection of an Aerostich Roadcrafter. the armor is superior.
it's pretty well vented but on real hot days I soak my t-shirt and open the vents, it's almost air conditioned then..
new suits have flaps that can cover your boots too.
+100. Roadcrafter and soaked long sleeved cotton Tshirt. Only downside is the need to shed suit fast when not moving if hot. so keep moving....
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Simple for me. 80 degrees F and up, mesh jacket and layer to comfort. 75 degrees and down to 50 degrees leather or textile with a liner or not as well as layers as needed. 45 down to 32ish degrees a cold suit and layers as needed. Below 32 degrees, keep my ass at home😂
Oh and frog toggs, water proof boot covers and glove covers in a nylon bag in the right bag with the Jack Daniels for the cold wet conditions.
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You might shop around. The new textile stuff is very good. I picked up no brand jacket (Speed & Steel brand) at a close out rack at a booth ar COTA. The weather changed when I was riding back to OKC from MotoGP Austin. Rain, wind and cold. I am talking 30s, 45 mph north head wind, flurries and rain. This jacket is much better than my leather so far as warmth and rain. It's ventilated and armored. I wear it 8 months, and slip into the mesh for summer.
Shop around. You might be surprised.
I wouldn't be shocked if you could find a good one like it at Cycle Gear.
I'm shopping everywhere I can find ... :thumb: I've had a Street and Steel "Brighton" jacket similar to what you describe, and my "Bilt" mesh jacket from Cycle Gear is reaching the end of its life.
I wore out a FirstGear Kilimanjaro jacket 2000-2010, and my Tourmaster Rincon has lasted about 8 years but is about done. I have a heavy AGV armored leather jacket but (unlike most leather, which people find shrinks badly over the years) this one expanded over the last couple years and doesn't fit me any more.
Fay is at the end-of-life of her second Joe Rocket jacket/pants outfit, and also has a Bilt mesh jacket which needs replacing.
Very little to our credit is the fact that normally we ride in jeans; helmet, boots, gloves, and jacket are all good, but our legs are protected only by cotton denim, which isn't good. We're not going on our next long tour in jeans. Kevlar jeans maybe, if we go the rainsuit route.
None of the gear above, however, is waterproof; all of it requires a rain suit if water starts coming down (or up from the highway; you get wetter from truck and pavement spray than from rain) ....
No place I'm aware of within 200 miles besides the Cycle Gear in Springfield VA has an extensive line of gear where you can try things on for size ... so it's the guess-try-return-try again on line cycle ...
Lannis
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+100. Roadcrafter and soaked long sleeved cotton Tshirt. Only downside is the need to shed suit fast when not moving if hot. so keep moving....
True, can't stop and chew the fat in a 'stitch. air cool baby!
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Simple for me. 80 degrees F and up, mesh jacket and layer to comfort. 75 degrees and down to 50 degrees leather or textile with a liner or not as well as layers as needed. 45 down to 32ish degrees a cold suit and layers as needed. Below 32 degrees, keep my ass at home😂
Oh and frog toggs, water proof boot covers and glove covers in a nylon bag in the right bag with the Jack Daniels for the cold wet conditions.
That's exactly my current plan when I'm at home. :bow:
Problem is, on a long tour, packed full, I can't carry two different riding outfits for two of us; as big as proper protective gear packs, I'd fill two saddlebags with just mesh, rainsuits, pants, etc ..... :undecided:
Lannis
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You get rain? I'm envious ....
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That's exactly my current plan when I'm at home. :bow:
Problem is, on a long tour, packed full, I can't carry two different riding outfits for two of us; as big as proper protective gear packs, I'd fill two saddlebags with just mesh, rainsuits, pants, etc ..... :undecided:
Lannis
Ok, just keep the Jack Daniels and leave the wife’s heavy jacket out, LOL, I crack me up sometimes 😂
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You get rain? I'm envious ....
On a five or six thousand mile tour, we expect to come across whatever part of the country is getting the rain that you're not getting .... :wink:
Lannis
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I'm shopping everywhere I can find ... :thumb: I've had a Street and Steel "Brighton" jacket similar to what you describe, and my "Bilt" mesh jacket from Cycle Gear is reaching the end of its life.
I wore out a FirstGear Kilimanjaro jacket 2000-2010, and my Tourmaster Rincon has lasted about 8 years but is about done. I have a heavy armored leather jacket but (unlike most leather, which people find shrinks badly over the years) this one expanded over the last couple years and doesn't fit me any more.
Fay is at the end-of-life of her second Joe Rocket jacket/pants outfit, and also has a Bilt mesh jacket which needs replacing.
Very little to our credit is the fact that normally we ride in jeans; helmet, boots, gloves, and jacket are all good, but our legs are protected only by cotton denim, which isn't good. We're not going on our next long tour in jeans. Kevlar jeans maybe, if we go the rainsuit route.
None of the gear above, however, is waterproof; all of it requires a rain suit if water starts coming down (or up from the highway; you get wetter from truck and pavement spray than from rain) ....
No place I'm aware of within 200 miles besides the Cycle Gear in Springfield VA has an extensive line of gear where you can try things on for size ... so it's the guess-try-return-try again on line cycle ...
Lannis
I have a couple of pair of textile over pants. One is Joe Rocket mesh. In the summer you can wear shorts or swim trunks under them. But they are still hot in the summer. Neither is rain proof (obvious for the mesh). I keep Frog Togg britches for that- which BTW have muffler induced ventilation holes at both ankles.
I normally wear jeans. I was looking at kevlar jeans at CG. I think they all have about 5 inched of reach from belt buckle to crotch. Still looking.
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Oh man! This is a relevent post for me. I am in my early 60s and I bruise really easily and my skin on my hands cuts easily. Been trying to decide how to go concerning riding apparel and armor.
GliderJohn
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Oh man! This is a relevent post for me. I am in my early 60s and I bruise really easily and my skin on my hands cuts easily. Been trying to decide how to go concerning riding apparel and armor.
GliderJohn
Yup, things change as you get older, physically change and so do your needs. I'm in the same boat.
I think for me, this is being driven a little bit by realizing that whatever we buy is probably going to last us a significant percentage of our remaining riding life so we ought to get what's best for us. We've always just bought a hodge-podge of riding gear, whatever felt good and was on sale and seemed to have the features we wanted at the time.
Sometimes cheap-but-functional $79.95 stuff (Cycle Gear "Bilt"), sometimes $200 - $400 (TourMaster, FirstGear, Joe Rocket, AGV) ... and they've done pretty well. Never even considered Klim or Rukka or Aerostich stuff at $1500 - $2000 per outfit, but maybe it's time?
I know how different it feels to bruise up a knee or twist an ankle or abrade myself NOW than it did 30 years ago, before years of borderline Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, thyroid dysfunction, arthritis, neuropathy, and all that other Old Man/Old Woman stuff took its toll. All of that's under control or gone now (therapy, diet, weight, medication, etc) but the upshot is that neither one of us heals up like a young dog any more if we go down, and a lick that I used to just shake off will have me hurting bad the next couple mornings or longer ....
Hence the search for the Right Stuff!
Lannis
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I have had very good luck with Klim gear, hot, cold, wet. It is very well made, and good consumer support.
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b but the upshot is that neither one of us heals up like a young dog any more if we go down, and a lick that I used to just shake off will have me hurting bad the next couple mornings or longer ....
Hence the search for the Right Stuff!
Lannis
Again, Aerostich. not shown on the web site but the catalog has details about how special the armor is..
you can get wet in them (all day soaker) but it can save your skin in a crash..
(https://photos.smugmug.com/All/i-bpgwTMk/0/e230a0b3/M/IMG_0589-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/All/i-bpgwTMk/A)
50 mph get off.
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I envy you the conundrum. Here, we daren’t go anywhere without rain protection. Hence the stereotypical British gentleman with his neatly rolled umbrella.
My dad used to watch westerns on TV and comment that it never seemed to rain in the USA. After I’d spent a couple of summers thumbing around, I was able to tell him it did rain, but not often in the summer. So if I ever get the opportunity to ride around the States, I’ll go for comfort and be prepared to pull over to put a waterproof layer on.
(Posted while waiting for a break in the rain so I can walk out and buy a paper)
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:1: on the Aerostitch comments.
I went with the Roadcrafter two-piece over twenty years ago. Reasons for the two pieces -- can have different colors and sizes top to bottom. After about ten years I bought a Darien jacket, the bike at that time was a bit sporty, the lean-over riding position left a gap at the waist on the RC jacket and my lower back got cold. I went with the Regular Darien (not the Lite) for the added protection. Their catalog recommended the Regular for sustained speeds above 70 MPH and I ride lots of Interstates.
I've ridden in all types of weather with the current arrangement (Darien jacket, RC pants) and am satisfied. I carry a soakable vest in the summer to use under the Darien in really hot temps but soaking a T-shirt also works. It was 107 degrees the last time across NE and KS. In the cooler temps I layer up including a wool dickey around my upper torso and neck and wool arm warmers on my lower arms to keep wind from going up the sleeves of the outer jacket.
Ride safe.
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Living in Central Oklahoma and traveling multistate from April thru November, I have settled on layering and mesh gear, with heated liners and over the top rain suits. Not uncommon to see 30 to 100's sometimes in the same day and off and on rain. Tried the one suit fit all and didn't like it as I almost always felt it was a compromise and only was "right" a few hours per day. For me stopping and adjusting gear in extremes is the best choice.
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Only 20 hours and already tons of good experience and recommendations.
A little self-reflection too ... as I was reviewing gear that we'd bought in the past, I was looking at old photos. And I realized that a short 25 years ago I was doing things that I would consider stupid and counter-productive today; like riding a 1000-mile round trip to Ohio on my old BSA in a T-shirt, with a light fabric jacket and a slicker strapped down on the back. Open helmet, no gloves, street shoes. (And at least once I almost froze in August in a 55-degree rain on top of Cheat Mountain).
Luckily, by 2004, when I was on my Centauro one December riding with Greg King on HIS Centauro, I was in full gear from head to toe when we both hit an ice-covered mountain bridge and went down at about 45 MPH. Bruised up but nothing bloody or broken, we hammered the levers and pegs back to rideable shape and eased on home. I had to replace the helmet, jacket, and pants, though, although I still use the Sidi boots.
Since then I've been a MOTG/ATT advocate, transitioning to ATG/ATT.
When it gets right down to it, it's the heat I'm worried about. I have wool underlayers, Fay has electric vests and gloves, we know our limits on cold and they're low.
The "change into rain gear or wear waterproof gear" is a comfort and convenience thing; stop and change or ride on? Weather's funny - I've been riding in England for two weeks and never saw anything but sunshine and blue skies, but I've ridden in the US under constant rain for a week at a time. And September in the Midwest or Southeast, you're in and out of thunderstorms all day long; change into gear, get steamed up, change out, dry off, change into gear .....
So the heat? We've always managed that with mesh gear with armor built in. But mesh dries you out so bad, you have to drink and pee all the time, and it's something extra to carry because it has to be changed out under 70 degrees or it'll freeze you.
It sounds like a soakable underlayer (whether a designed one or a T-shirt) with vented jackets would be a solution to the heat, although I've never really done that on a day-long ride. We'll try that on the next really hot day and see how it does ... ?
Lannis
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Living in Central Oklahoma and traveling multistate from April thru November, I have settled on layering and mesh gear, with heated liners and over the top rain suits. Not uncommon to see 30 to 100's sometimes in the same day and off and on rain. Tried the one suit fit all and didn't like it as I almost always felt it was a compromise and only was "right" a few hours per day. For me stopping and adjusting gear in extremes is the best choice.
Tried the one suit fit all and didn't like it as I almost always felt it was a compromise and only was "right" a few hours per day.
Yes, that's the biggest downside to the really nice Aerostich and Klim gear, I think.
But for a month on the road, I don't think we have room for separate mesh, fleece, electric, and rain stuff .... for two of us ?
Lannis
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This thread is awesome.
I'm riding FL/Seattle/Tucson/FL this summer and was giving a lot of thought to exactly this issue.
My problem is, I'm comfortable at temperatures 10-20 degrees hotter than most people, and truly suffer the cold. So most of the trip I'll be fine, but I have to carry enough cold layers to get through the mountains.
I've always ridden in leather and jeans, on the street. I had no idea you could spend so much on riding gear.
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I've always ridden in leather and jeans, on the street. I had no idea you could spend so much on riding gear.
I knew it could be expensive, but I didn't know how expensive until an English riding friend, my age with my same riding habits, same spending habits (semi-cheap usually) and who always wore the same sort of gear I did except all his jackets are leather, his pants were jeans, and he carried a rain suit everywhere ....
... splashed out $2700 on a set of "Rukka" jacket and pants. He swears by them, says he rides in torrential rains and never a drop of water inside the suit, perfect for him. I don't know about the heat in those, though.
But you can spend a ton of money that way, especially if you're buying for two .... !!
Lannis
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Aerostich frequently has sales, especially this time of year.
If you get serious about it, naybe a call and talk to someone there and let them know what your looking for as far and size.
I like the two piece because I sometimes wear denim bottoms w/ bohn armor. Wear the bottoms w/ galluses (sometimes red).
:-)
I've considered Bohn underarmor-type gear, where the armor is built into your underwear, held tight against the skin instead of "moving around" like if it were in a jacket, and then you wear whatever you want on top.
Not to get into too much personal detail, but that would work for us only for a 1 or 2 day trip in the summertime. Beyond that, we'd be spending a lot of extra time each day (that could be spent on riding) washing and drying our gear ... !!
Lannis
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Riding across Texas, New Mexico, Arizona in August, 100+ temps, I wore mesh jacket with a long sleeve heavy tee shirt underneath and regularly poured water down my collar from a squeeze bottle in the tank bag. Not that bad, but have to stop at least every hour to hydrate, starting the previous days.
For cold I wear my armored mesh jacket with wind/rain liner and synergy heated jacket liner with heated gloves. Can stay comfortable down near freezing temp (along with heated grips). Of course most of my touring bikes now have electrical systems that can power small cities, so that is not a concern. here is a thread on that too.
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Lannis, don't forget that you can get a Roadcrafter Light. Layer up as needed for the cold days. I have ridden in 103F temps and as long as I was moving all was good. At any stop I shed the Roadcrafter quickly. It made a huge difference to wear a cooling scarf....get one from Home Depot...soak that puppy in water, drape it around your neck and let the evaporation keep your core cool. The only issue with the scarf is it gets still as a board when completely dry. Klim is also producing some top notch riding gear that is also pretty stylish (if that's important to you). The prices are in line with Aerostich.
Peter Y.
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Klim is also producing some top notch riding gear that is also pretty stylish (if that's important to you). The prices are in line with Aerostich.
Peter Y.
I've never been particularly stylish, no reason to be concerned about what I "looked like" on the road.
But I HAVE noticed that since Fay and I are both in the market at the same time for gear, and since we always ride together on the same bike, she HAS mentioned "Wouldn't it be nice to get gear and helmets that actually matched so that it looked like we cared about it ... ?" and hints like that.
I'm old enough and smart enough now to pay attention to those "hints" these days!
As long as the bike has enough alternator to pull her electric gear in the cold, she'll be pretty easy to please in terms of functionality. But I will pay attention to "presentation" .... It might be sort of fun.
Lannis
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I'm shopping everywhere I can find ... :thumb: I've had a Street and Steel "Brighton" jacket similar to what you describe, and my "Bilt" mesh jacket from Cycle Gear is reaching the end of its life.
I wore out a FirstGear Kilimanjaro jacket 2000-2010, and my Tourmaster Rincon has lasted about 8 years but is about done. I have a heavy AGV armored leather jacket but (unlike most leather, which people find shrinks badly over the years) this one expanded over the last couple years and doesn't fit me any more.
Fay is at the end-of-life of her second Joe Rocket jacket/pants outfit, and also has a Bilt mesh jacket which needs replacing.
Very little to our credit is the fact that normally we ride in jeans; helmet, boots, gloves, and jacket are all good, but our legs are protected only by cotton denim, which isn't good. We're not going on our next long tour in jeans. Kevlar jeans maybe, if we go the rainsuit route.
None of the gear above, however, is waterproof; all of it requires a rain suit if water starts coming down (or up from the highway; you get wetter from truck and pavement spray than from rain) ....
No place I'm aware of within 200 miles besides the Cycle Gear in Springfield VA has an extensive line of gear where you can try things on for size ... so it's the guess-try-return-try again on line cycle ...
Lannis
If you're willing to pay for an hour or so of time with a local tailor to be "professionally" measured, I think at least Aerostitch can use those measurements to get you the right fit the first time. Maybe some of the other higher end manufacturers could work with that as well, if that's the way you decide to go.
I have gotten pretty good results lately with Tourmaster. What I have settled on is the solid textile jacket, with removable cold liner and lots of vents. Waterproof as well, you just have to stop to make sure you get ALL of the vents closed if you hit rain on a summer day. I also have TM mesh pants. They have rain/wind & cold liners, the rain liner is a major pain to use as rain pants because you have to remove the pants to deploy/remove the liner. The internal liners are much more workable if you can at least sort-of know the day-long conditions you will face when you start out. I usually just carry a pair of regular rain pants, much easier to get on/off on the side of the road and as an extra, added bonus the rain pants can also be used as an extra windproof layer in the cold & dry. Such a split system might be workable for you & Fay.
Howard
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Wife and I ended up with matching jackets and both had black pants once. Made me feel weird for us to match so much, even with different helmets. I quit wearing it when riding together. Had husband/wife friends that would race a Flying Scot and they had matching foulies. We used to good nature kid them about being "twinsies".
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If you're willing to pay for an hour or so of time with a local tailor to be "professionally" measured, I think at least Aerostitch can use those measurements to get you the right fit the first time. Maybe some of the other higher end manufacturers could work with that as well, if that's the way you decide to go.
Fay used to make her own clothes when she was growing up (one of those things you do when you don't have an indoor toilet or a telephone until you're a teenager!), so she's pretty good at measuring in all the right places. Although we do know a local seamstress who's more current at it, so .... Whoever does it, it'll be a necessity for mail-order.
I have gotten pretty good results lately with Tourmaster. What I have settled on is the solid textile jacket, with removable cold liner and lots of vents. Waterproof as well, you just have to stop to make sure you get ALL of the vents closed if you hit rain on a summer day.
My current (worn out) textile is a Tourmaster Rincon, and it's all you say. When we're riding and rain approaches, Fay knows where all my vents are and can get them zipped up while we're riding, along with hers (her Joe Rocket doesn't have a back vent).
I also have TM mesh pants. They have rain/wind & cold liners, the rain liner is a major pain to use as rain pants because you have to remove the pants to deploy/remove the liner. The internal liners are much more workable if you can at least sort-of know the day-long conditions you will face when you start out. I usually just carry a pair of regular rain pants, much easier to get on/off on the side of the road and as an extra, added bonus the rain pants can also be used as an extra windproof layer in the cold & dry. Such a split system might be workable for you & Fay.
Howard
You're right about the "inner" rain liner. I'll never forget once when we were headed north on US 15 around Gettysburg, PA. We were riding from southern Virginia, meeting some folks in Harrisburg, and I was trying to stay on schedule. To the west, there was a really ugly squall line headed our way, fast. We stopped in a service area to put on our wet gear "just in case" because I was sure we could outrun it; the highway was clear, and the storm pretty well defined.
So I pulled on my Frogg Toggs, glove covers, and was ready to go. Fay took her rain liner to the ladies room since you have to pull the pants off to put the liner in.
And I waited. And waited. And waited. And the storm got closer, and looked uglier, lightning flashing constantly, and a black rain curtain appearing to the west ... and about 20 minutes after she went in, she came out right when the storm was on top of us.
We got about 3 minutes down the road before it unloaded on us, high winds, lightning, low visibility, torrential rain, all the stuff I hate riding in. And it all could have been avoided if we could have just "ridden on" in our regular gear .... !
Lannis
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Wife and I ended up with matching jackets and both had black pants once. Made me feel weird for us to match so much, even with different helmets. I quit wearing it when riding together. Had husband/wife friends that would race a Flying Scot and they had matching foulies. We used to good nature kid them about being "twinsies".
I might mind that, but she won't!
The helmets and jackets are going to be at least half Hi-Viz yellow or green. It's amazing how far down the road you can see that coming. We've always opted for black (more traditional? More options? Doesn't show road dirt? anyway, always black).
But having had enough experiences with noticing a motorcycle half a mile down the road because the rider is wearing high-visibility colors, we're going that way too. Many jackets have the yellow in a sort of attractive way so you don't look like you're ready to pick up trash on the roadside or something (something I do on a regular basis!)
Lannis
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Aerostich. I absolutely love not having to deal with “looks like it might rain but I don’t want to stop” or “sure wasted a lot of time putting on that rain gear for nothing”. With Aerostich you just ride and you have some of the best protection available.
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I rode across Minnesota and South Dakota in a mesh jacket and that was enough for me. I couldn't stay hydrated no matter how much water I drank. Got pretty punchy a few times (mixing up brake and clutch lever) and actually sailed through a 4 way stop at 60mph.
The following season I went with the Aerostich Darien 2 piece suit. That was 2013. The jacket wasn't waterproof by 2016. Washing in Nikwax had no affect. Since this seemed to be more of a Gore Tex problem than a 'stich problem I sent it in to Gore and within two days they contacted me and asked what color I want my new jacket to be. 'Stich mailed me a brand new Darien 2 months later. While I was diappointed the Gore failed I was impressed with the customer service and warranty.
In my experience base layers get more important when dealing with wearing heavy Cordura in hot weather.
I'd say the temp range of the jacket is (IMO) 55 to 100. You can go lower with extra layers of course. The pants are warmer. I'd say they're best between 40 and 85. Keep in mind that the Cordura fabric 'stich uses is PU (polyurethane) coated and it will melt to your skin in a long slide so they recommend wearing something under the pants to insulate the body against this. In my experience smart wool tights work well as does wicking poly/synthetic tights.
In less oppressive heat (85 or less) I'll wear Army BDU pants under them. These are nice for off the bike or while camping because they are cool to wear, dry quickly and very tough. Look for something in either nylon or poly blend. Avoid 100% cotton. https://www.truspec.com/
Aerostich has Bambo t-shirts and I highly recommend them. I rode from Minnesota to Tennessee last September and took just this shirt and one other. Did 8 days and only took it off to sleep and shower. At the end of the trip it still smelled nice and didn't feel gross. Normally I'd wash it in a sink along the way but this was a test and it did really well.
http://www.aerostich.com/clothing/clothing/bamboo/bamboo-cotton-t-shirt.html
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The Aerostich gear is some of the best. The back and underarm vents work very well and the protection is top drawer. BUT...you can�t leave the vents open when it rains, so you have to stop anyway. Still, my DarienLight jacket/pants is the best rider gear I�ve owned. It�s eight years old and has thousands of miles on it and I have only had to re-attach a couple of Velcro patches to keep it as new. The sleeves are a little on the loose side (they catch a great deal of air when I ride my BMW), but the latest version has Velcro straps to tighten them down. Next time, I�ll probably purchase the standard model, as it is reputed to hold up better in a fall. These suits are as good a compromise as I have found.
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I rode across Minnesota and South Dakota in a mesh jacket and that was enough for me. I couldn't stay hydrated no matter how much water I drank. Got pretty punchy a few times (mixing up brake and clutch lever) and actually sailed through a 4 way stop at 60mph.
Closest I came to passing out in my life was on a ride on my BSA A10 from home here in southern VA to eastern Pennsylvania (Ruff Creek/Prosperity) one hot hot day. I had on my mesh jacket and took a pint of water, rode up US250/I-79).
Wasn't enough. By the time I stopped in the tavern where we were meeting, I was barely functioning. Realized I hadn't pee'd in 7 hours and still didn't need to, got up from the table and had to grab a column to stay upright.
Luckily it was my riding buddies, they figured out what was happening, didn't make a fuss (although conventional wisdom would say they should have) grabbed me and sat me back down with a quart of ice water and a big chocolate bar. In 30 minutes I was OK again, but no more long trips on hot days with mesh for me. You almost can't drink enough to keep up ....
Lannis
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The Aerostich gear is some of the best. The back and underarm vents work very well and the protection is top drawer. BUT...you can�t leave the vents open when it rains, so you have to stop anyway. Still, my DarienLight jacket/pants is the best rider gear I�ve owned. It�s eight years old and has thousands of miles on it and I have only had to re-attach a couple of Velcro patches to keep it as new. The sleeves are a little on the loose side (they catch a great deal of air when I ride my BMW), but the latest version has Velcro straps to tighten them down. Next time, I�ll probably purchase the standard model, as it is reputed to hold up better in a fall. These suits are as good a compromise as I have found.
I've read about the crash protection difference between the Darien and Darien-Light ... it's another one of those comfort v. protection compromises, I suppose. Gotta decide whether to maximize comfort for the 99% of the time, or give up a bit of comfort for the cheer-up-mate-it-may-never-happen event ....
Lannis
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Great topic and timely, my wife and I have been very satisfied with our Darrien stitch gear it is functional and protective, but Mary thinks at times too hot, so she frequently rides with the pant legs partially unzipped,which in my opinion isn’t optimal protection. Recently we’ve been looking at the Helite and other inflatable gear which provides an additional layer of protection. I checked out the Helite vest but over the stitch it diminishes the cooling of the Stitch venting system, which I think works well.
2 friends have invested in the newer Helite coats with built in pads similar to stitch with the air vest built in. They aren’t as hot as the stitch, one has the mesh jacket, the other a regular coat similar to a Darrien but not as long in the back. Both friends are satisfied with their choices and function,but neither has the rain protection of the stitch gear. There are several companies doing these airbag systems now. Look at the gear they are making for Horse riding now also. I think in a year or two the airbag gear will be on par with Aerostitch stuff as far as all around protection incorporating airbag tech. I’m actually surprised Aerostitch isn’t in this game yet. I’m waiting another year to update my gear.
http://www.helitemoto.com/helite-turtle-airbag-vest-black/?_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3pD9lYKX2gIVzbjACh2f6QxmEAQYAyABEgLkAvD_BwE
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Great topic and timely, my wife and I have been very satisfied with our Darrien stitch gear it is functional and protective, but Mary thinks at times too hot, so she frequently rides with the pant legs partially unzipped,which in my opinion isn�t optimal protection.
That's a good observation, and shows clearly that the "Space" that you and I and all the other posters here are in is in a different galaxy than "motorcycle riders" in general.
I'm concerned about the crash protection difference in different weights of armor. You're aware of the risk increase in riding with partially unzipped gear for ventilation. Others have photo-documented the sacrificial nature of good gear when you go down, so that you can imagine what it would be like if it weren't there.
And yet what will I see out on the road once the weather turns nice? Pack after pack of cruiser (and Gold Wings riding as cruisers) riders out for a Sunday ride, with the guy in front in jeans, wife-beater, fingerless gloves, and an unpadded beanie, and his Old Lady up behind in a tank- or tube-top, shorts, and sandals, with a plastic Tupperware helmet. Eighty miles per hour over 100-degree asphalt, with a guy steering that's been riding for 4 years and has 3500 miles under his belt ....
That's why I perceive that, although we're all "in the wind" "on two wheels", we're in separate universes sometimes ... I used to have one foot in it, but maturity tempered by pain sorted THAT out ... !
Lannis
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That's a good observation, and shows clearly that the "Space" that you and I and all the other posters here are in is in a different galaxy than "motorcycle riders" in general.
I'm concerned about the crash protection difference in different weights of armor. You're aware of the risk increase in riding with partially unzipped gear for ventilation. Others have photo-documented the sacrificial nature of good gear when you go down, so that you can imagine what it would be like if it weren't there.
Lannis similar observation for sure. In 1979 I read the �Hurt report� my take away is no matter how safe �You� are it�s the other drivers around you that are distracted by what ever,even more so now with cell phone texting etc... Hurt said make yourself as protected and visible as possible,in town headlight on high beam during the day and always right hand on brake ready to stop. We have 90% of the time adhered to this with combat boot over the ankle protection,leather gloves and leather coats and pants and always helmets. We�ve over the years updated our gear to better protection, better riding boots and the Aero stitch Darrien gear,and up graded helmets. Too many friends who used to be riders arent any more,one friend from high school still has occasional debre like small pebbles coming out of knees and thigh where they didnt get it all and that was from 1973. Weve been lucky and avoided involuntary get offs,but I still like being prepared. I try to remind myself whenever I get on that this may be the time so like Don Juan told Carlos Castinada � This would be a good day to die� so enjoy and appreciate it,that�s my riding attitude.
Dave
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leather treated with dubbin, so its basically waterproof for a small shower....
if the rain settles in then whack on your rain suit... jacksonracing on this forum makes a great one, on and off in seconds
works for me
: :thumb:
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leather treated with dubbin, so its basically waterproof for a small shower....
if the rain settles in then whack on your rain suit... jacksonracing on this forum makes a great one, on and off in seconds
works for me
: :thumb:
Judging if it's going to be a small shower is the hard part! Usually by the time I find out it ISN'T a small shower, it's too late. Someone here did a review or video or something of that rainsuit you mention, I wasn't able to find it ... ?
Lannis
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Lannis, I have two Olympia jackets.. and *on the trip you are taking* I would give the nod to the AST. Those full length sleeve vents are awesome when it is "too hot for a Stitch.." :evil: :smiley: It is very good in the heat, considering it is a "cold wet weather" jacket.
http://www.canyonchasers.net/reviews/gear/olympia-ast.php
For more "normal" local riding, I prefer their perf jacket with Gore tex liner that can be worn either outside or inside the shell.. I much prefer outside.. and a conventional thermal liner.
I am not too concerned about pants. IMHO, they are not as important as keeping your core comfortable. I wear Compacc mesh Sliders all the time, and carry waterproof overpants for (heavy) rain and cold.
For boots, Sidi On Roads.. may have been supplanted by All Roads.. are waterproof, and will last forever.
As I originally said, though, there is no perfect motorcycle gear.
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Lannis,
I think were I in your position, I'd get an Aerostich R3-light (it's a one-piece suit). You did say that cost wasn't part of the decision process. I've used an Aerostich Roadcrafter one-piece for the last 25 years in all sorts of weather. Below 90 degrees as long as you're moving it's actually ok. Above 90 degrees, hot is hot.
The R3 series differs from the Roadcrafter in that it doesn't have a smooth liner and all the seams are well-sealed (similar to the Darien). It's as waterproof as any rain suit, whereas the Roacrafter has eventual limitations in an all-day rain. The Roadcrafter is a bit warmer (from the liner).
Just recently, I decided to move on from my Roadcrafter to an R3. I'll be riding in Ireland soon enough, and I remember my last ride through that country. I got wet. I drove up to Duluth to have a new suit custom fitted. From the outside, the R3 looks just like a Roadcrafter. The "light" version is just that. I'm getting the regular weight.
I have my new R3, now, but haven't yet had a chance to test it in real conditions. These things require breaking-in; I've found just wearing it around the house works pretty well.
As for carrying a separate rain-suit. I tried that for a few years and was always out of synch with the weather--always too late or stuck with a wet thing and no place to put it.
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Lannis,
I think were I in your position, I'd get an Aerostich R3-light (it's a one-piece suit). ......
I drove up to Duluth to have a new suit custom fitted.
Well, you've ridden in a lot of hot places (at least they LOOK hot from the photos!) so you'd know the "heat" side of the issue! Fay's said she'd prefer a two-piece but I haven't made up my mind yet.
I think that we're leaning towards the "no rain suit" plan, for the reasons we've both mentioned. As long as we're both doing that (and we don't have to stop for ONE of us to put on a rain suit), we may decide on really different brands and models, I don't know.
Traveling to Duluth to get fitted is quite a commitment, but considering the cost and the use it's going to get put to, that's probably a good idea. Aerostich hasn't scheduled any planned local "Pop Ups" yet where they bring their stuff to a venue near you, and can measure you and all .... They usually have at least one in Virginia every year ....
Lannis
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Riding gear is always such a personal thing and I've tried a lot of combinations. Riding in Texas and the Southwest we can expect two things with certainty. Heat, and the weather to change constantly. I've settled on the Aerostich AD1 pants because I like the Gore Tex fabric, the armor protection and the ease with which I can put them on or take them off. The Gore Tex pants are important to me because I don't need to carry rain pants and when my crotch gets wet when wearing jeans it never dries out until I can remove the pants after the ride. I can easily wear jean or sweat pants underneath the AD1's to keep me warm. Access to my billfold and pockets is easy.
As for a jacket, I have two that I really like. The TourMaster Transitions is my favorite with lots of adjustable vents and a removable liner. But it isn't Gore Tex so I carry a rain jacket when wearing that one. I've ridden Hwy 50 across Nevada in that jacket in July and using a water absorbent vest it works just fine. The Klim is Gore Tex, but not so many vents, no removable liner so I carry a polar fleece that doubles for after the ride wear. I only bought the Klim because it was on sale at 50% off due to a slight discoloration. I am no fashionista by any stretch. I've ridden a couple of hundred miles in the rain in the Klim and stayed quite dry. Also I find the Klim to be not as warm in colder weather, mostly on my arms, and it also doesn't have the same degree of armor protection as the Tour Master.
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So anyone out there using Ruka gear?........... looks like it would be a premium build.
Ciao
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My go to most of the time is a 'Stitch R-3 Light. Works a treat. For extended getaways when it's hot it a KLIM APEX jacket. Why? Gor-Tex for the chance of rain but the APEX has these really nifty vents on the forearm. It's a brilliant idea that works and even more so if you have significant wind coverage that blocks most air from the chest. Those forearm vents, out away from a screen or fairing, work a treat.
And, they in no way compromise any cooling when using the He-Light vest.
Our own Moshe Levy reported that the LD Comfort hot weather solution worked very well so I'll give that a go this summer.
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Only 20 hours and already tons of good experience and recommendations.
Weather's funny - I've been riding in England for two weeks and never saw anything but sunshine and blue skies
Lannis
That’ll be England, Arkansas.
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That�ll be England, Arkansas.
We're just lucky that way. When we toured Nova Scotia, including Cape Breton Island and the Cabot Trail, we had brilliant clear skies for three solid days. So many people make the long ride up there, and then it's socked in solid and you might was well be riding on Bug Tussle Pike as the Cabot Trail for all you can see ....
We did spend a week on the Isle of Man, and it never stopped raining except in the evening for running the race bikes ....
Lannis
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We're just lucky that way. When we toured Nova Scotia, including Cape Breton Island and the Cabot Trail, we had brilliant clear skies for three solid days. So many people make the long ride up there, and then it's socked in solid and you might was well be riding on Bug Tussle Pike as the Cabot Trail for all you can see ....
We did spend a week on the Isle of Man, and it never stopped raining except in the evening for running the race bikes ....
Lannis
We ended up riding in the rain/fog for one of the two days on the Cabot trail. They tell me the scenery is spectacular.. :smiley:
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You already mentioned it, but I always have my Frogg Toggs with me. Easy on/off, breathable and fold down very small and I've never had them soak through. My bike is fully faired, so can't speak to their durability in the open wind.
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I have an Aerostich R3 light, a bit of a bulky package when off(too big to store out of sight), but when I get where I'm going and take it off it's like I've just changed into fresh clean clothes. Wash the hands, splash some on the mush and I'm good to go. Been through all kinds of weather and felt safe and dry. If I have to kneel or lay down for some reason, the pads make it easier and keeps me clean on the inside. All the temperature things have already been covered so I'll only say that for me, I'm often surprised by the temporary chill when starting off on a hot day. Gauntlet gloves to cover the cuffs do a lot keeping the chill away when it's cooler. Been out on some dark and stormy nights and no place to stop, the large reflective pieces lent an air of security(like when the Cal III died in the dead of night west of KC).
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Lannis,
I'd take the advice of the premier traveling authority, Mr. Kalal.
FrogToggs work sometimes, but not worth it.
Make the trip out west. I've been around to many "gonna do's" that never do it. You have the memory of the trip forever while the increase in your portfolio is soon forgotten.
Enjoy,
Tex
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Lannis,
I'd take the advice of the premier traveling authority, Mr. Kalal.
FrogToggs work sometimes, but not worth it.
Make the trip out west. I've been around to many "gonna do's" that never do it. You have the memory of the trip forever while the increase in your portfolio is soon forgotten.
Enjoy,
Tex
Absolutely right, Tex.. although I think Lannis is a doer.. :smiley:
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I'm always in wool... one piece. It's as constant as my helmet. If I'm riding, I'm wearing it. If it's hot... I don't wear a shirt over it.
I carry a pair of rubberized overalls with me, rolled up tight. They pack down small enough to fit in my bags, and they're easy to pull on in the rain. I find "moto specific" rain gear a PITA to pull on., but I also carry a "moto specific" rain jacket to go over my waxed canvas riding jacket.
I prefer to carry separate rain gear with me. It's not a big deal to pull it on when needed.
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I'm always in wool... one piece. It's as constant as my helmet. If I'm riding, I'm wearing it. If it's hot... I don't wear a shirt over it.
I carry a pair of rubberized overalls with me, rolled up tight. They pack down small enough to fit in my bags, and they're easy to pull on in the rain. I find "moto specific" rain gear a PITA to pull on., but I also carry a "moto specific" rain jacket to go over my waxed canvas riding jacket.
I prefer to carry separate rain gear with me. It's not a big deal to pull it on when needed.
I'm trying to visualize the "one piece wool" you're mentioning ... ? The rubberized overalls I sort of know what those are.
Lannis
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Absolutely right, Tex.. although I think Lannis is a doer.. :smiley:
I usually am, but the extra "make sure you do it" is appreciated. There ARE things that I "always said I was going to do", and then never did them, and it was too late. Usually visiting an aged relative or former teacher or professor ... put it off, put it off, then it's too late!
We were thinking about a European tour, based on when I was riding in the Rockies with LongRanger and just blown away by the scenery, he said "Yes, this is nice, but the Alps are a LOT more scenic" .... then Fay said "Why do we keep getting on airplanes to go ride, when we've never even crossed the Mississippi on a bike?"
So, while we're still hale and hearty (if a bit slower), we've blocked off late August and all September for a long U.S. ride. I've mapped out the first part, from Virginia to Hartwick Pines State Park in Michigan to see a Kirtland's Warbler. Then to the U.P. and across to Yellowstone, then up to Montana where my cousin is the superintendent of a national park up there and has invited us to stay. Then probably down through Utah and then I don't know where yet .... highliting a lot of maps!
Tex is right - if we don't do it, something will come up, and then the next year something will happen, and pretty soon you're out of energy .... !
Lannis
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Lannis... old-school, one-piece wool longjohns. Button in the ass and everything. Warm when it's cold, warm when damp, cool in the heat, Best gear for riding, ever.
Rubberized overalls... bib overalls, welded seams. Standard work gear for in the rain, designed to be pulled on over work clothes and boots. I haul them on, no chance of seepage as they come up to my nipples. I have reflective daylgo Velcro straps (used by cyclists to keep their pants out of their chains) that I wrap around each ankle.
I'm a function over form kinda guy.
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I've had a Firstgear Kilimanjaro jacket and pants set for about 6 years. Very happy with both, though I only put on the pants for long trips or in very cold or wet weather.
I wouldn't want to wear it alone when riding 8 to 10 hours a day in the rain back-to-back, but for 3-4 hours I found them to be outstanding even full day, but they will load up a bit with water so Day 2 and 3 can be a drag. Because of this I keep some frog skin super thin for the outer layer if it looks like rain for days on end.
The jacket is my year round daily Ryder. With the zip in lining it's great for the winter and plenty of ventilation for spring and summer and as always the first gear products is full of pockets and gadgets snaps excetera. Qualitiy has been outstanding as well
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Lannis it's all a compromise. You need to flow a lot of air in the Southeast summers but you also need to endure rain. And I've been in the 60's in August on the Parkway.
I've settled on Cordura for a material as it's the most versatile. It's waterproof "enough" that I don't mind traveling without my rain liners on day-trips and such. Cordura with vents and layers can get you from 25F to 95F and outside that range I don't care what you have it will be too hot or not hot enough.
Cordura with lots of vents will most likely take you to the Stich or Olympia offerings. I went with Olympia because they discount closeouts and as you know I'm cheap. :thumb: But over the past few years Olympia has been discounting less so if I were in your boat I'd probably go Stich.
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I have slowly evolved to this position. Aerostich Darien jacket and the AF1 pants. Sidi Waterproof boots.
One huge advantage of this rig is that it is basically waterproof, thus you do not have to play that irritating game where you try to predict the weather, and are constantly taking on and off the rain gear. Just ride.
The Aerostich is basically waterproof, and therefore perfect for short duration or intermittent rain. But if you ride long enough in a heavy enough rain, it will leak a bit in places. Worse, the entire outer shell gets waterlogged and heavy. So I still pack a cheap rain suit to wear over the Aerostich. I will wear this if I know for sure that I'm going to be in rain for hours and hours. If I wake up to heavy rain, and the forecast shows hundreds of miles of more rain, then I do put on the extra rain gear.
I find the Aerostich as good as anything in really hot weather. It breathes pretty well if you open up the sleeves and the back panel. Maybe it doesn't work as well on a faired bike, but I find it to be ok on a naked bike.
The real secret to dealing with very hot weather is microfiber underwear without seams. And constant hydration.
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I have slowly evolved to this position. Aerostich Darien jacket and the AF1 pants. Sidi Waterproof boots.
..........
The real secret to dealing with very hot weather is microfiber underwear without seams. And constant hydration.
As we absorb the experience presented here, I'm starting to realize that we don't have to match the top and bottom bits, although I would like them to attach together (obviously you don't have to worry about that in a one-piece). When my son had his "Hey, I found my LIMIT!" experience, a hard low-side, he had on the right stuff, but it wasn't attached together, and as he slid down the road feet-first, the jacket slid up and he lost some meat off his back and side ....
I got the socks and underwear thing covered. Doctor said either SmartWool or 70%+ Merino socks, so I've worn nothing but those on my feet for 5 years (and every foot problem I ever had went away), and I found "Ex-Officio" underwear myself. They're expensive at $36 or so apiece, but absolutely worth it, and they rinse out and dry overnight so they're great for a long trip.
Lannis
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I have a friend who was given the top of the line BMW suit to test out in Eastern Europe, Turkey & the Sahara - he says it worked exactly as advertised (astoundingly) - warm when cold, cool in the heat, and dry when wet. But even he doubted whether he would have actually paid the price it cost.
For longer distances, I prefer leather - it bounces better on that odd occasion when needed - but my trousers are Aerostich's Transit pants (no longer available, I believe) - waterproof for a couple of hours heavy rain, with side zips to mid thigh, so boots don't have to be removed to get them on or off (big advantage when touring & camping. My leather jacket is vented front & rear, so it's mostly OK, but there have been times when a mesh jacket would have been preferable to cope with greater heat.
Even so, I do take along rain gear - the jacket big enough to get over the leather easily, and the trousers zip up from ankle to waist, so that on & off is merely a wrap around with zip - no balancing act or contortions required. I found these trousers in the UK, but others are available, if lightly advertised. Jacksonracingcomau 's suit version looked good, if expensive; Andy Strapz was selling a decent-looking set of trousers with similar features, but we here in this corner of the world are not as blessed with the choice other parts of the world seem to have.
If your main concern is waterproof gear, go the experts in Finland, say, or Scandanavia, where rain is a constant feature - so Held and Rukka are more likely to satisfy - they build for their conditions. Their gear also seems to have a reputation for long lives - thankfully, given the cost. Good hunting.
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Really good thread with hundreds of years of combined experience here.. :thumb:
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Really good thread with hundreds of years of combined experience here.. :thumb:
Yep, and Fay and I will take advantage of every word of it .....
Lannis
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I haven't been riding that long, but I started with an Aerostich Roadcrafter (single piece). I sent it back after five years to have the zippers repaired. It doesn't look new any longer, but it works fine.
On a group ride, I got jealous of the folk who could take their jackets off as they went into the restaurant, so I got a second suit, the Darien with a pair of AD1 pants. Now the hard part is deciding which to put on. Both are great, there are enough vents to cool off while moving in heat, and both button up to keep the wind out and heat in when it's cold. I also got a vest you can soak with water to help keep cool in the heat. The claim is the Darien is more waterproof than the original Roadcrafter.
Some things that others haven't covered:
Aerostich has a nice chart/matrix to help size your suit, jacket, or pants. You can also ask someone for online assistance. Measure yourself, and they will recommend a suit. There is a long list of customizations they do on a regular basis.
Another thing Aerostich will do for you is send you a stock suit so you can try it on. If you don't wear it out for a ride, you can return it for the cost of shipping (?) and have a custom suit made based on the alterations needed based on the stock suit.
Aerostich will service, repair, or alter your suit as needed, including restoring the weatherproofing. Work with them and they will work with you.
Both my suits are black and hi-viz yellow. It's not like the international green/yellow used on emergency gear, so it's a little easier on the eyes, but I still get questions. "Doing road work this time of year?" Little kids ask if I'm with the police.
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Tiger Angel, Guardian Suit. Mine is 8 years old and still going strong (and waterproof).
Pete
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'Depends'
What are your 'must haves' for gear?
I have a Klim Badlands jacket and Latitude pant that is a great armor/cold/wet weather combo. The pants are a bit bulky to pack due to the armor, so long tours I tend to gravitate to Klim Traverse pants. No armor in the knees or hips, but the tradeoff is OK with me as I can pack the pants if I want or wear them for abrasion resistance/waterproof. All have plenty of vents and are OK when moving in the heat.
I have a Traverse jacket that I wear locally and really hot days. These have huge side vents and are easy to keep cool (arm vents would be nice). I am thinking of upgrading to a good mesh jacket to replace. All the traverse are waterproof, but no armor. Klim has a traverse style gear called overland that add the armor, but not as bulky as the Latitude. I have not tried them.
I am a fan of pockets for long trips, so the Badlands is ideal all around jacket for that. The number of zips is crazy, but it flows well. You can find these on closeout at the end of a gear season for a few hundo off regular price.
Badlands- heavy, hot if sitting, bulky with all the armor, great all around jacket, tons of vents
Latitude- lighter, but style is not my thing in the jacket. I like the pants, but they are NOT overpants
Outland- good bridge between armor and no-armor, limited features.
Traverse- what got me into Klim, waterproof (mostly), and light. No armor. Pants are overpants, jacket is more of a shell.
As with all gear- I would find a good retailer to try them out.
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Tiger Angel, Guardian Suit. Mine is 8 years old and still going strong (and waterproof).
Pete
I'd never heard of those before, so I did a little on-line searching. They sound somewhat like the discontinued Aerostich Transit leathers - hydrophobic leather exterior and Gore-Tex liner, custom-fitted, these are from Australia so that's a long way to be shipping leathers back and forth if the first fit isn't perfect, but worth a look.
They don't give prices on their website - you have to submit a Request for Quote (RFQ). The only RFQ's I've submitted have been for multi-million dollar power-plant projects, so I'm preparing for sticker-shock when I do submit one .... !
I'll let you know what I find ... !
Lannis
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'Depends'
What are your 'must haves' for gear?
I have a Klim Badlands jacket and Latitude pant that is a great armor/cold/wet weather combo. The pants are a bit bulky to pack due to the armor, so long tours I tend to gravitate to Klim Traverse pants. No armor in the knees or hips, but the tradeoff is OK with me as I can pack the pants if I want or wear them for abrasion resistance/waterproof. All have plenty of vents and are OK when moving in the heat.
I have a Traverse jacket that I wear locally and really hot days. These have huge side vents and are easy to keep cool (arm vents would be nice). I am thinking of upgrading to a good mesh jacket to replace. All the traverse are waterproof, but no armor. Klim has a traverse style gear called overland that add the armor, but not as bulky as the Latitude. I have not tried them.
I am a fan of pockets for long trips, so the Badlands is ideal all around jacket for that. The number of zips is crazy, but it flows well. You can find these on closeout at the end of a gear season for a few hundo off regular price.
Badlands- heavy, hot if sitting, bulky with all the armor, great all around jacket, tons of vents
Latitude- lighter, but style is not my thing in the jacket. I like the pants, but they are NOT overpants
Outland- good bridge between armor and no-armor, limited features.
Traverse- what got me into Klim, waterproof (mostly), and light. No armor. Pants are overpants, jacket is more of a shell.
As with all gear- I would find a good retailer to try them out.
Our nearest "Klim" retailer is more than a day-trip away, but I agree that before dropping 2 or 3 big ones, actually being able to see it and try it on would be a plus ....
Lannis
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Our nearest "Klim" retailer is more than a day-trip away, but I agree that before dropping 2 or 3 big ones, actually being able to see it and try it on would be a plus ....
Lannis
The large retailers like Revzilla have return policies that allow you to return the items. This is great, but a PITA when you are not sure on what you want.
The problem with local Klim retailers is they don't usually stock anything or stock one jacket in one size (not mine). I can't blame them... having a bunch of $$ sitting on the floor where anyone can go online and undercut you is not a great way to stay in business.
The badlands sells itself after a long, wet ride. I take my jacket off and am one of the few who are dry. The price becomes much less of an issue at that point.
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For longer distances, I prefer leather - it bounces better on that odd occasion when needed - but my trousers are Aerostich's Transit pants (no longer available, I believe) - waterproof for a couple of hours heavy rain, with side zips to mid thigh, so boots don't have to be removed to get them on or off (big advantage when touring & camping. My leather jacket is vented front & rear, so it's mostly OK, but there have been times when a mesh jacket would have been preferable to cope with greater heat.
I've worn two riding suits since the mid-80s, both two-piece custom leather, and I rarely wear anything else when riding. If it gets cold or wet, I wear a waterproof fabric riding jacket over the leathers, with or without lightweight rain pants as required. If it gets really hot, I remove the leather jacket and wear the fabric jacket only, generally with vents open. I don't see myself ever changing that 'old school' system as its usually providing the best possible crash protection and also a lot of layering flexibility. The downside is that two people touring and riding double on the same bike, using this system, are unlikely to have the space for two extra jackets.
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The downside is that two people touring and riding double on the same bike, using this system, are unlikely to have the space for two extra jackets.
Yep. If we had more room, the options would be wide open ....
Lannis
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Tiger Angel, Guardian Suit. Mine is 8 years old and still going strong (and waterproof).
Pete
So, just for what-the-hecko, we submitted an RFQ to Tiger Angel of Australia for a custom-made waterproof leather touring suit for Fay.
There are 27 separate measurements that you need to submit, and if you weren't married before the measurement process, you HAVE to get married afterward (I'm given to understand).
This is to get a quote; I expect that when I DO get the quote, I will stagger backward with my hand on my chest like Fred Sanford hollering "It's the Big One Elizabeth, I'm comin' to see ya now" BUT before final submission if we go this way, I would probably have a (lady) tailor redo the measurements, or make real sure myself after talking to the folks.
So no decision yet, just continued investigation ... thanks again to everyone for the info and ideas, they'll all go into the decision ....
Lannis
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I've been really happy with my Klim Latitude jacket and pants,gortex is the answer to the waterproof issue and its easy to add or strip a layer as needed.Have some Rev'it gear in the closet and it stays there now,waterproof for about 20 min the Klim stuff ive ridded in for 7 hrs and stayed dry
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Aerostich. I absolutely love not having to deal with “looks like it might rain but I don’t want to stop” or “sure wasted a lot of time putting on that rain gear for nothing”. With Aerostich you just ride and you have some of the best protection available.
:1: This are the exact reasons I wear waterproof gear. We get a lot of short, but often intense, showers.
I bought a used Darien fifteen years ago, after I realized that my Joe Rocket was not waterproof. Got some AD-1 pants to go with it. Worked well for me, but after a few years I thought I wanted more ventilation so I bought an Olympic that looked good. Vents were good but it was a PITA to close it all up watertight. So I tried a First Gear; the vents looked good but didn't provide much air flow.
Recently I have gone back to the Darien and have been very pleased; the venting results are as good or better than the others, and more convenient to adjust. As it gets warmer: 1. open the cuffs to scoop up air and blow it thru the jacket. 2. Open the back vent. 3. Open the armpit vents. I am so pleased that I will be ordering a new Aerostich Roadcrafter 2-piece.
Pants: Last year I decided that I wanted some new pants with vents (and waterproof). Finally found some that looked OK. They were the type that you pulled on and then put on your boots. I hated them almost immediately. My Stich have full length zippers; I can put them on and take them off without removing my boots. I normally wear street clothes under the pants, so when I stop for lunch or for the day I can easily remove the pants.
BTW: When temperatures get above 95F it is recommended that you close all vents and seal up the jacket. The hot air won't cool you and will dehydrate you. I agree; I tested it in Death Valley at 114F.
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Lannis, I have two Olympia jackets.. and *on the trip you are taking* I would give the nod to the AST. Those full length sleeve vents are awesome when it is "too hot for a Stitch.." :evil: :smiley: It is very good in the heat, considering it is a "cold wet weather" jacket.
http://www.canyonchasers.net/reviews/gear/olympia-ast.php
I had one of these jackets. the "Velcro" that held the flaps closed was too good. I had to take the jacket off and use two hands to separate the Velcro. Also, the Velcro was stronger than the stitching holding it to the jacket; I had several pieces rip off.
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A comment about hi-vis yellow/green jackets:
I have an Olympic hi-vis that I wore for about six years. I noticed that it was looking a bit grungy so I washed it. In the next couple of months I had at least six comments "don't you ever wash that jacket?" I never had that comment before I washed the jacket.
A bit of thought and I found the reason for the comments. The jacket was stained gray in places that got rubbed often, and the other parts were bright. Another washing, with a long soak in OxiClean, got rid of some of the stains.
Bottom line: They are going to get dirty, but even dirty the visibility is significant.
PS: I like what Aerostich has to say about their hi-vis.
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:1: This are the exact reasons I wear waterproof gear. We get a lot of short, but often intense, showers.
More good input in these last few posts. I checked over on "advrider", which is huge site compared to this, and there's not a thread about this subject as informative as this one.
Short, intense showers are the reason we're going to do waterproof gear rather than non-waterproof with a rain suit.
By the time you KNOW it's going to rain, there's often no convenient place to stop except on a narrow shoulder, you have to find a place, get off, unpack the gear, then two of you fight your way into it (especially if it's already damp from the last storm) and get back going. Sometimes you don't even hit the rain, or it was just black clouds and thunder and no rain, and 3 minutes later the sun is back out and no human being can stay in a full rain suit in 95 degF/80% humidity for long.
So you repeat, and change back, and 30 minutes later you're doing it again. At least that's life in summertime Virginia, and I've found it's that way in much of the country. Coming back from the New Hampshire National I ran into 4 such storms between Keene NH and Harrisburg, PA and I called it a night about 6:00 PM as I rode toward an ugly squall.
We just want to ride ...
Lannis
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Have you and Miss Date decided which bike you will be using? The Stelvio or the Triumph?
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Have you and Miss Date decided which bike you will be using? The Stelvio or the Triumph?
Haven't decided yet. I've got the front end of the Stelvio apart to fix a damper cartridge that came loose, and I'm going to put some LED headlights in while there's room. The Stelvio has the Russell Day-Long seat and is the most comfortable of the two.
I'm mapping the route out, and just now getting west of the Mississippi where the 340-mile range of the Triumph might be nice, compared to the 180 of the Stelvio. (I've eked 203 miles out of the 4.9 gallon Stelvio tank since it was re-mapped, but I don't want to push that range, far from home).
Either one has plenty of carrying capacity, so I'll see when we get closer .....
Lannis
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I'm mapping the route out, and just now getting west of the Mississippi where the 340-mile range of the Triumph might be nice, compared to the 180 of the Stelvio. (I've eked 203 miles out of the 4.9 gallon Stelvio tank since it was re-mapped, but I don't want to push that range, far from home).
The greatest distance in the continental US between fuel stops, that I know of, is US6 between Ely, NV and Tonopah, NV -- 169 miles.
You do need to look at your map and plan ahead, and there are places on the maps that don't have fuel.
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The greatest distance in the continental US between fuel stops, that I know of, is US6 between Ely, NV and Tonopah, NV -- 169 miles.
You do need to look at your map and plan ahead, and there are places on the maps that don't have fuel.
Yes; and moreover, we're avoiding Interstates wherever we can (unless an Interstate is the only road through a pass or across a river), so good planning is always a good idea.
The main thing about having more gas in the tank is that it gives you more flexibility if you see something unplanned and fascinating on the way - a road, for example that you'd just LOVE to take but you can't because you don't know if there's any gas there. If you've got it in the tank, you can go and see ...
What do the aviators say? .... the most useless things in the world are altitude above you, runway behind you, and gas at the last airport you visited ....
Lannis
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... and I'm going to put some LED headlights in while there's room.
Lannis
Don't.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html
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Don't.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html
However, good LED driving lights have reflectors designed for the lighting element. I used Piaa with rear facing LEDs on my Stelvio and Denali from Twisted Throttle on other bikes with good results. However, these are high beam only lights and will "blind" oncoming traffic. I recommend wiring them so they are only on with your high beams, or using a dimmer that activates when on low beam. Skene or Denali are two sources.
Dan
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However, these are high beam only lights and will "blind" oncoming traffic. I recommend wiring them so they are only on with your high beams, or using a dimmer that activates when on low beam. Skene or Denali are two sources.
Dan
LED warnings duly noted; but I ALWAYS dim my lights when there's oncoming traffic, so why is there a concern about the brightness or pattern of the high-beams? I'm not going to shine them on anyone ... ? :huh: :bow:
Lannis
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LED warnings duly noted; but I ALWAYS dim my lights when there's oncoming traffic, so why is there a concern about the brightness or pattern of the high-beams? I'm not going to shine them on anyone ... ? :huh: :bow:
Lannis
Redhawk made the point above, if you want LEDs, add additional lamps that were designed for them. Read the entire piece I linked to; you'll understand it's not about the glare, it's about reduced visibility and importantly, fooling yourself into thinking a different short pattern and whiter wavelength translate into better lighting at speed. Installing LED bulbs in your non-LED housing is a straight reduction in down-the-road light.
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LED warnings duly noted; but I ALWAYS dim my lights when there's oncoming traffic, so why is there a concern about the brightness or pattern of the high-beams? I'm not going to shine them on anyone ... ? :huh: :bow:
Lannis
LED driving lights are high beam only. Therefore, what I said.
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Good discussion. My experience, FWIW...
I have used a mesh Hein Gericke two-peice suit with an internal rain liner for probably close to 15 years. It shows major wear, zipper pulls gone missing and replaced with zip ties, all pads rotted out and replaced, etc. It's been great and was waterproof on the rare occasions that I needed it. More importantly, that waterproof layer was also windproof and good insulation. But it has finally given up it's waterproofness (that's a word, right?)
So the mesh sits in reserve now. Currently, fore the street, I am wearing a two-piece leather sport-riding suit by Vanson. It was spendy, but it was an "I always wanted it" type of gift to myself. The jacket is perforated at the front, has good back and sleeve vents, and the perforations can be "sealed" by closing large internal panels. I just bought a cheap, high-vis two-peice rain suit - (AGV Sport Thunder) Received it only yesterday, so I haven't ridden in it yet - however, it fits will over my leathers (without removing boots).
I've decided to go with the rain over-suit because I can take it when I want to and it will go over anything. This is important to me, because I also intend to buy a well ventilated ADV suit for hard dirt riding in hot weather - and the rain-suit will serve as a top layer not just for rain, but also as a windproof, insulating layer when needed.
For gloves... keep some latex gloves on the bike somewhere. They keep your hands a bit warmer, and even if your gloves leak through a little, your hands will be dry inside the latex layer. Also handy if you have to do some messy work along the road.
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What do the aviators say? .... the most useless things in the world are altitude above you, runway behind you, and gas at the last airport you visited ....
The only time you have too much gas is when you are on fire.. :smiley:
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So, just for what-the-hecko, we submitted an RFQ to Tiger Angel of Australia for a custom-made waterproof leather touring suit for Fay.
There are 27 separate measurements that you need to submit, and if you weren't married before the measurement process, you HAVE to get married afterward (I'm given to understand).
This is to get a quote; I expect that when I DO get the quote, I will stagger backward with my hand on my chest like Fred Sanford hollering "It's the Big One Elizabeth, I'm comin' to see ya now" BUT before final submission if we go this way, I would probably have a (lady) tailor redo the measurements, or make real sure myself after talking to the folks.
So no decision yet, just continued investigation ... thanks again to everyone for the info and ideas, they'll all go into the decision ....
Lannis
And .... 3 weeks now and nothing back from Tiger Angel - they say "For sure in 72 hours" but I'm not going to chase after them trying to find a reason to give them money .... wasn't Email, was a form on their own website.
So the search continues.
Lannis
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Good Luck! :thumb:
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If I could only have one set of gear, it just might be an Aerostitch/Darien outfit. My preference is to go with leather and a rain suit for touring. my experience is that a dedicated rain suit just keeps me dryer, so I make room for it. New leather often have ventilation options to keep cooler(ish) when it's hot too.
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Just an update in the ongoing process ....
We ordered a set of Klim "Artemis" gear for Fay. Careful measurements resulted in a close match to the sizing table for a "small" jacket and a "6 Tall" pants in gray/HiViz.
Ordered it from Revzilla ($1269 for both, free shipping). Fay has been trying it on (it fit very well) and walking around in it and decided:
1) It's too heavy and bulky for her. The shoulder and elbow armor bothers her.
2) It "looks too masculine". I can assure her with the greatest confidence and emphasis that it does NOT by any means look "too masculine" - it's cut for a woman and looks great on her, but I have no say in matters like that, I find.
3) She mentioned "getting something cheaper", although it was already paid for and in the budget. I'd pay twice as much for a good working solution, but ....
To me, it was a fairly "svelte" and good-looking outfit, and would obviously have been very protective; adjustments everywhere, pockets all over, etc. But the competition, Rukka and Aerostich, is going to have exactly the same issues ... sooo ... back to Revzilla it goes. It looks like were back into sort of "piecemeal" jacket/pants solutions, with raingear coming out if clouds threaten ....
I'm going to let her pick her own, then, and I'll pick mine. If it's not GoreTex or another waterproof solution for both, there's no need in having it just for one ....
Lannis
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1) It's too heavy and bulky for her. The shoulder and elbow armor bothers her.
2) It "looks too masculine". I can assure her with the greatest confidence and emphasis that it does NOT by any means look "too masculine" - it's cut for a woman and looks great on her, but I have no say in matters like that, I find.
3) She mentioned "getting something cheaper", although it was already paid for and in the budget. I'd pay twice as much for a good working solution, but ....
Lannis
After my wife and I slid in a huge oil slick, enough to have the light grey front panel on my wife's jacket turn black, I am a 100% dedicated fan of armour. Once you are on the bike I personally don't notice it, but when you need it it man is it worth having.
Neither of us can remember going down, it happened so fast, but the first thing my wife can recall is me being underneath the bike, and although the suit had the odd scuff the armour and boots meant that I came out without a scratch. She cracked her elbow with the impact because she was sitting with her arms folded, but you can see from her suit the damage would have been much worse without the armour.
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The last set of riding gear I purchased was for my then-girlfriend. I knew she wouldn't have worn anything I picked out so I let her pick it out. She ended up in some utterly atrocious Icon gear including a very gaudy hot pink helmet.
I ride in a Darien two-piece with a white Neotec. We looked like the odd couple.
Manufacturers sure need to do a better job on womens riding gear. I hated paying for that Icon stuff.
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The last set of riding gear I purchased was for my then-girlfriend. I knew she wouldn't have worn anything I picked out so I let her pick it out. She ended up in some utterly atrocious Icon gear including a very gaudy hot pink helmet.
I ride in a Darien two-piece with a white Neotec. We looked like the odd couple.
Manufacturers sure need to do a better job on womens riding gear. I hated paying for that Icon stuff.
I've realized it's going to be too hard for me to do.
This Klim outfit is:
1) Top-drawer quality - the zippers work like butter, the material FEELS expensive, every buckle and fitting is slick.
2) Great-looking on her.
3) Obviously highly protective.
The benefits are pretty quantifiable; the complaints are very subjective (TO ME, not to her).
So I'm sort of out - she's got an account on Revzilla and a couple other sites now, and looking for exactly what she wants. I'll follow her lead ... if she picks something that requires rain gear in the wet, so will I .... since we gotta stop anyhow ....
Lannis
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I know about wimmens and riding gear. :grin: It's too heavy. It rubs me the wrong way. It's too hot. It's too cool. It makes my Uhh.. you know look too big.
FWIW
I believe that its a good system for me to have the bottoms w/water tight jacket
That is what I've settled on. My Olympia jacket is waterproof with full length sleeve vents for when it is warm. Armored mesh pants with water proof overpants for rain/cold. Aerostitch spock overgloves for rain, too. Gotta be polite to Vulcans.
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I know about wimmens and riding gear. :grin: It's too heavy. It rubs me the wrong way. It's too hot. It's too cool. It makes my Uhh.. you know look too big.
FWIW
That is what I've settled on. My Olympia jacket is waterproof with full length sleeve vents for when it is warm. Armored mesh pants with water proof overpants for rain/cold. Aerostitch spock overgloves for rain, too. Gotta be polite to Vulcans.
Sounds like a good option. If I don't go with leather, it'll be something like that .... maybe.
Lannis
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I do not know if this helps you Lannis. But the modern textile stuff from Aerostich is initially very stiff and bulky feeling. Maybe tell her it all feels bad at first, but it gets better after you use it a LOT, and then it feels molded to you.
It is kind of like buying new leather boots or a belt. Yeah, feels bad at first but gets much better.
Or maybe go drastic. If she is concerned about looks and style, tell her how much better and
stylish she will look with high quality gear that precludes the need for skin grafts.
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I do not know if this helps you Lannis. But the modern textile stuff from Aerostich is initially very stiff and bulky feeling. Maybe tell her it all feels bad at first, but it gets better after you use it a LOT, and then it feels molded to you.
It is kind of like buying new leather boots or a belt. Yeah, feels bad at first but gets much better.
Or maybe go drastic. If she is concerned about looks and style, tell her how much better and
stylish she will look with high quality gear that precludes the need for skin grafts.
I think she'll end up with high-quality gear, with the proper abrasion protection, and armor in the appropriate places (back, shoulders, elbows, hips, knees). And my wish would be that she'd let the Klim gear "break in" and see how it feels then.
But I think that the waterproof-ness (if that's a word) of the Klim jacket and pants makes it "feel" too heavy and stiff to her, and the "feel" and "look" just doesn't click with her.
So I think it'll end up being mid-level-price stuff ($700 for jacket and pants) that is lighter, NOT waterproof, and fits and looks more like she wants. For reference, her present, worn-out stuff is "Joe Rocket" brand; she's looking at FirstGear and Tourmaster at the moment ... After 44 years of riding together, I know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em, as the song says ... !!
Lannis
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Yep. Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.. :smiley:
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Yeah, except for local riding in SoCal, I gave up on leather years ago. Too cold when it's cool, too hot when it's warm, not waterproof. Obviously, though, you can't beat the protection.
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:1: out here in Hawaii. My go to riding gear is an old JR Phoenix vented jacket. I finally killed the zippers from age. :embarrassed: Trying to figure a fix. Maybe velcro.
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:1: out here in Hawaii. My go to riding gear is an old JR Phoenix vented jacket. I finally killed the zippers from age. :embarrassed: Trying to figure a fix. Maybe velcro.
Even in Hawaii, there has to be people who do alterations. Keep on asking around till you find them, even if you have to take along you own new YKK. Ask around the Harley crews & the racing/track day people, someone will know.
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Thanks for some solutions but the solution is to buy a new jacket. No repair shops. No race tracks. I'll probably repair the old jacket myself when I have the time.
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I know about wimmens and riding gear. :grin: It's too heavy. It rubs me the wrong way. It's too hot. It's too cool.
Well, she's mailed back the Klim "Artemis" outfit and has ordered a Klim "Altitude" jacket and pants. I said "You mean 'Latitude' don't you?" (thinking she had reversed the first two letters, since I already knew about the 'Latitude'), but no, she had it right the first time and I learned something new.
She's been watching all the "Revzilla" videos about the different items in the line, and in this case the model demonstrating the outfit was almost exactly her height and weight and build, so she was able to see what it would look like, but more importantly hear and see that it was lighter and more flexible than the Artemis.
So when it gets here we'll see!
Lannis
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Ya gotta love em.. :smiley:
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So the Klim "Altitude" jacket and pants came in.
The pants, although marked as exactly the same size as the Klim "Artemis" pants that she had returned for exchange, are 3 full inches shorter than the Artemis, and look like "Flood Pants" when she sits on the bike, over the top of her boot.
So she's called Revzilla back and going to return them, they're going to see if they're mis-sized (6 Regular is supposed to be 29" inseam, 6 Tall is supposed to be 32"), and she's trying to decide whether to keep the Klim jacket or not. She tried on her old "Bilt" jacket just for comparison, and she loves that jacket's feel compared to the Klim; it's just not GoreTex or waterproof.
So the search goes on. Nobody has this stuff in the various sizes and colors in stock in any store, so this constant game of UPS Tag is really the only way to do it. Frustrating, but hey, it's a First World Problem ....
Lannis
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I�ve narrowed it down the last few years to just keeping a set of frog togs and boot covers along with my bike cover, in a small gym bag which stays in one of my hard hard bags. Then I simply wear the appropriate jacket for the weather conditions. Coldest weather a full artic cold suit which can be rolled up and strapped on the back with bungee chords if not needed. Simple.
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I�ve narrowed it down the last few years to just keeping a set of frog togs and boot covers along with my bike cover, in a small gym bag which stays in one of my hard hard bags. Then I simply wear the appropriate jacket for the weather conditions. ....
That's what we do now, carry Frogg Toggs, but ...
... is it going to be just a little light rain, no need in changing just for this, I can see the other side of the storm, we'll be dry again in 3 minutes ... then WHOOSH, a monsoon, and it's too late to put the wet gear on and now you'll never dry out until the jacket and pants are hanging from the TV set in the motel room ....
.... and when you DO decide it's time to put on the rain gear, sometimes there's literally no place to stop and do it. In the Virginia/West Virginia mountains, for example, you can go MILES through the mountains and woods with almost no shoulder, no turn-outs, nothing but ditches and mud along the road, so you either have to stop in the traffic lane and then jump around on one leg trying to pull on an already-wet rain suit on the pavement, or keep going until you find a place to pull over, and then sometimes you're already soaked to the skin.
We may still do that, but if we can find an alternative, I'd love to be able to just ride on when the weather changes!
Lannis
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That's what we do now, carry Frogg Toggs, but ...
... is it going to be just a little light rain, no need in changing just for this, I can see the other side of the storm, we'll be dry again in 3 minutes ... then WHOOSH, a monsoon, and it's too late to put the wet gear on and now you'll never dry out until the jacket and pants are hanging from the TV set in the motel room ....
.... and when you DO decide it's time to put on the rain gear, sometimes there's literally no place to stop and do it. In the Virginia/West Virginia mountains, for example, you can go MILES through the mountains and woods with almost no shoulder, no turn-outs, nothing but ditches and mud along the road, so you either have to stop in the traffic lane and then jump around on one leg trying to pull on an already-wet rain suit on the pavement, or keep going until you find a place to pull over, and then sometimes you're already soaked to the skin.
We may still do that, but if we can find an alternative, I'd love to be able to just ride on when the weather changes!
Lannis
When I’m traveling on the bike I check the weather channel on my smart phone and hid the most part I know where the rain is going to be. If there is a big green blob on the weather map and I’m riding into it, I get dressed for it upon saddling up and pulling out. The weather app is pretty dang accurate to the start of the foul weather. You pretty much can map the weather for the whole day.
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When I�m traveling on the bike I check the weather channel on my smart phone and hid the most part I know where the rain is going to be. If there is a big green blob on the weather map and I�m riding into it, I get dressed for it upon saddling up and pulling out. The weather app is pretty dang accurate to the start of the foul weather. You pretty much can map the weather for the whole day.
When the weather's really hot (as it's likely to be when thunderstorms are about), traveling 10 extra miles than you have to, encased in the steam-sauna outfit known as Frogg Toggs, is not really "on"! It's just too hot to "suit up" just in case! Besides which, this "smart phone" thing of which you speak just isn't our bag, as they used to say. Like alcohol, dope, and gambling, I've heard many people in my ever-longer life say "I can handle it" or "It's just a tool" or "You can stop any time" .... and watched many of them become dependent, pathetic addicts that will kill someone to get their dopamine fix. I have to dodge some of those addicts every time I go out on the road, and I can tell you that I'd rather face a drunk than a smart-phone addict .... I don't want to take a chance of becoming one, even though many decide they can handle the risk. So I'll just keep my eyes open and use Gore-Tex!! :thumb:
Lannis
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I can hear an Aerostich Roadcrafter Lite video playing in another room ... the idea of "custom U.S.-made" gear, cut to your own measurements, is starting to sound like a good one, I think ... !!
Lannis
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I used a R3 light for a few years. Great kit and highly recommended.
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When the weather's really hot (as it's likely to be when thunderstorms are about), traveling 10 extra miles than you have to, encased in the steam-sauna outfit known as Frogg Toggs, is not really "on"! It's just too hot to "suit up" just in case! Besides which, this "smart phone" thing of which you speak just isn't our bag, as they used to say. Like alcohol, dope, and gambling, I've heard many people in my ever-longer life say "I can handle it" or "It's just a tool" or "You can stop any time" .... and watched many of them become dependent, pathetic addicts that will kill someone to get their dopamine fix. I have to dodge some of those addicts every time I go out on the road, and I can tell you that I'd rather face a drunk than a smart-phone addict .... I don't want to take a chance of becoming one, even though many decide they can handle the risk. So I'll just keep my eyes open and use Gore-Tex!! :thumb:
Lannis
I hear ya and understand your disclaimer and no arguments here. An access to weather information is a valuable tool as modern technology can be helpful although not always best for everyone. I aknowledge that not all old dogs can be taught new tricks, just funning:)
I think bottom line is, there is no way to cross the country without encountering less than perfect weather on the way, at least on a bike. We all just have to do the best we can with the choices we make with our ridding gear. I for one have been caught out many times wishing I had better or different gear. Keep us informed as you attempt to come to a solution to this ongoing issue we all must deal with. Be safe:)
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I can tell you that I'd rather face a drunk than a smart-phone addict ....
I've said that many times. A drunk is at least making an effort to stay on the road..
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I've said that many times. A drunk is at least making an effort to stay on the road..
Yep. Out driving the truck today making (charity) furniture pickups, up high where I can look down on cars, and the number of drivers paying no attention to the road is frightening.
At any rate, we ordered and sent back a Klim "Artemis" outfit for Fay, and now we sent back the Klim "Altitude" outfit, so Klim isn't on any more after an intensive effort.
Current videos playing are Aerostich two-piece "Roadcrafter Lite" ... Fay's realized that fit is the most important thing, and Aerostich (besides being made in the USA which is always a good thing to do, she's had enough of those poncy European sizes and shapes!) will take down all of your measurements in good old inches, ells, and furlongs, and make you an outfit to those numbers.
Good news is that they'll adjust it if the first draft isn't good .... bad news is that once a custom suit has been built, it's YOURS, looks like .... not like Revzilla/Klim, where you get all your money back if it doesn't work out ... And so it continues. Who woulda thought? Top marks to Revzilla for customer service, no matter which way she goes ....
Lannis
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Top marks to Revzilla for customer service,
Yep..
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Well, we've been at this for 9 weeks now and no solution yet. Fay has tried on and returned 3 different outfits so far.
I'm starting to have second thoughts about the "all rounder" GoreTex rainproof suits (Klim, Aerostich, Rukka) that don't require you to put rain gear over them when it clouds up.
It's 85 degrees and humid here today. Sometimes it's 95 degrees and humid. If I'm on a trip, I can't imagine stepping out of a restaurant lunch stop at 1:00 PM in Utah in mid-September at that temperature, and shrugging myself into a 7-pound Klim "Badlands" or Aerostich "Darien" solid jacket, with the sun blazing down, knowing I've got 6 hours to ride behind a fairing in that before it's time to stop for the day. I'm not sure we could even carry enough water to pour into the suit to make that bearable.
So we're branching out a bit in the search ....
Lannis
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When it's 95 degrees and humid my Darien is my favorite jacket.
I like it much better than perf. leather. Mesh textile is certainly more comfortable but I'd never dream of touring in it due to dehydration concerns. In my experience the Darien vents 'enough'. You can have too much venting.
When it's 95 degrees and humid my black Darien overpants are insufferable. My Draggin' Jeans are much more comfortable but I don't want to tour in them either. That's my current dilemma. Think I'm gonna try the Dariens with LD Comfort shorts under 'em.
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I'm starting to have second thoughts about the "all rounder" GoreTex rainproof suits (Klim, Aerostich, Rukka) that don't require you to put rain gear over them when it clouds up.
I been tellin ya, Lannis.. BTDT. :smiley:
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In appreciation of all the great suggestions here, I've been going back through it all and reviewing it with Fay.
The breakdown of current experience goes like:
20 Aerostich (8 Darien, 12 Roadcrafter)
6 Mesh (various brands) with textile and Frogg Toggs
6 Leather, raingear, and layers
5 Klim of various models
4 Olympia Goretex liner
3 Tourmaster Transition
1 Speed and Steel
1 piece wool, rubberized coveralls, rain gear
1 FirstGear Kilimanjaro, Frogg Toggs
1 Tiger Angel
with a lot of good experience about venting, water-cooling, layering, etc.
As Chuck said, this represents millions of miles of experience and needs to be all considered ....
Lannis
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That is what I've settled on. My Olympia jacket is waterproof with full length sleeve vents for when it is warm.
We were really getting excited about the Olympia AST jacket with the sleeve vents and then realized they quit making them around 2011 and that they don't make anything like it today, AS FAR AS WE CAN TELL .... so that might not be an option any more.
As far as I can tell, there no jacket that's:
1) Gore-Tex outer shell
2) Long sleeve vents and chest vents like the AST
3) 3/4 length.
The Darien Light jacket looks good but (you Darien fans) also looks like it has no venting at all? How would it hold up in the heat with no airflow ... ?
Lannis
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Don't know if anyone has mentioned these.
https://www.cyclegear.com/gear/bilt-explorer-adventure-waterproof-jacket
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Don't know if anyone has mentioned these.
https://www.cyclegear.com/gear/bilt-explorer-adventure-waterproof-jacket
That sure looks like it has all the features I was asking about. It's almost scary that it costs 1/4 of the price of the ones I've been looking at. We actually have a Cycle Gear store within a day's ride so I'll get a chance to see one, I hope ....
Lannis
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The underarm vents and back vent of the Darien is very effective at keeping a rider cool. Along with the front zip, arm zips, and the Darien pant’s side zips, the Aerostich offering has a great deal of flexibility for a wide range of conditions. The only downside is that it is a little blousey, particularly in the arms. However, the newest versions have arm adjusters.
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You know, as a rider of of 50 plus years I totally understand all the pros and cons of safety ridding equipment and of rain equipment and I’ve over the years experimented with about every combination possible. The bottom line now, for me, is a simple issue. If it cold as ice, done all the cloths I have in my bags. If it’s hot as hell, take everything off the law will allow me to pass through their town or jurisdiction wearing. For the safety factory.... ride like I’ve got common sense and use my 50 years of experience. :)if it starts raining and it’s 90 degrees, to hell with rain gear period as you will be dry in five minutes after you are out of the rain and for once that day you will ride in the cool air 😎
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This is an epic thread.
I've decided (albeit with some waffling) I'm going for the Roadcrafter probably light 1-piece. I'll let time and AMEX take care of any weather outside my ability to tolerate.
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I recently came across this Ikon jacket:
http://www.motorcyclegear.com/street/jackets_jerseys_and_vests/textile_jackets/icon/raiden_dkr_mochrom_wp_jacket.html
I was impressed by the fit, the armor, the ventilation, and the subdued appearance. The combination of an integral waterproof layer and truly adequate ventilation seems to be the characteristics of quality touring kit. I like this jacket better than my Aerostich Darien because the cost is lower and the fit is not as "blousy." The included D30 armor is form fitting and comfortable. This looks like my next traveling jacket...make mine grey.
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I recently came across this Ikon jacket:
http://www.motorcyclegear.com/street/jackets_jerseys_and_vests/textile_jackets/icon/raiden_dkr_mochrom_wp_jacket.html
I sure am glad there's a team searching out these things. I thought for certain that I had exhausted RevZilla's inventory of jackets with built-in waterproofing, using my best thumbnail "search" techniques, but you've found yet another one!
This one's been bookmarked too.
I was scoping out everyone's riding gear at the Virginia rally, since there were 80 hard-core Guzzi riders there and you would expect (and you wouldn't be disappointed) that you'd see some good stuff on people's backs. I must say I was impressed with ZoomZoom Henry's "Darien" gear - it was a warmish day but he wasn't the least concerned about the heat, said when he's moving it's cool as it needs to be ...
Since we have to buy two outfits, it sure would be tempting to spend $1200 total instead of $3200 total, but I'm still resolved to not let that stop me .....
Lannis
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I have two Darien jackets one light and one regular. I like them and they vent well enough for me, are completely water proof.
If you decide on a purchase you might consider having the length shortened, they are a bit long in my opinion. When sitting on the moto they can be a bit uncomfortable and will pool water in heavy rain.
If I know that a heavy rain event is coming I "roll" the bottom of the jacket inward so water will not pool.
If mine were a couple of inches shorter it would be better.....I'm tall.
FWIW
Edit:
I also have the Darien pants and they are easy to get in and out of if using over your street pants. Water proof and you can get the proper length of the legs (very important to me).
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Darian or AD-1 light pants over shorts works a treat-the overpant is armoured.
LD comfort shirt and any jacket work great. As long as you can get a bit of breeze up your sleeve the "swamp cooler" effect works almost too well. Our own Moshe Levy had a review in one of the moto mags he writes for-
I think it was MotorCycle Consumer News.
The IBA web site has some information that's culled for riders who ride for 1000 miles a day for 11 days. Hard to think that there is not something to learn there.
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Darian or AD-1 light pants over shorts works a treat-the overpant is armoured.
LD comfort shirt and any jacket work great. As long as you can get a bit of breeze up your sleeve the "swamp cooler" effect works almost too well. Our own Moshe Levy had a review in one of the moto mags he writes for-
I think it was MotorCycle Consumer News.
The IBA web site has some information that's culled for riders who ride for 1000 miles a day for 11 days. Hard to think that there is not something to learn there.
I'll check out the IBA site. Thanks!
Lannis
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Better start getting this stuff sorted, Lannis, or you'll miss your window of opportunity for this year. :smiley:
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Better start getting this stuff sorted, Lannis, or you'll miss your window of opportunity for this year. :smiley:
No doubt about it ... it's been all of April, all of May , and almost all of June we've been figuring this out.
We've bought three different outfits, tried them, sent them back, we've visited half-a-dozen shops and tried on their stuff, so we HAVE been working.
In the Old Days, we (or anyone else) would have just grabbed something and gone with it, risking being too hot, too cold, not really waterproof, not really fitting right ... but with the information available from so many good sources today, I hate not to take advantage of it.
In this lovely comfortable place we live in, one of the most voluntary ways to make yourself absolutely miserable is to take off on a long bike trip with the wrong gear! Been there a time or two and getting too old to make that mistake again when I could have done it right.
We'll get there ....
Lannis
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I have my shells in order and use what I need under them. Works a treat.
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I'll add my two cents on the Darien (and a few other items). I've been wearing Dariens for, I dunno, twelve, thirteen years. My first one was already five or ten years old when I got it, and it lasted me into 2014. I guess that means I've had the current one four years. I've worn both in lots of different kinds of weather, including:
- 105-degree heat (dry heat, though)
- mid-90s mid-Atlantic humidity
- Oklahoma dime-sized hailstorm
- 300-400 mile all-day rain
There's a key feature to the Darien (maybe the Roadcrafter, too, I dunno) that I don't think anyone's mentioned. There is a gap between the main jacket and the two chest pockets, which is ideal for stuffing ice packs in. In a pinch, I've also stopped at a 7-11 and filled a cup with ice and just dumped the ice in the gap pockets. They're waterproof, so after the ice melts, you can just press on them and the water comes out the top and down the outside of the jacket. Obviously, whatever you've got in the inside pockets will get cool before you do, so you may want to reshuffle the 15 pounds of stuff you'll end up stowing in the Darien's 259* pockets.
I've never found that I have to close the Darien's vents in the rain. Often on the first hot day of the year, I'll go to open the vents on my jacket before leaving work, only to find that they've been open all winter (yes, I tend to dress warm under the gear). Somewhere around here, I've got a photo that's a pretty good testament to the dryness of the Darien, but I can't find it at the moment. Basically, I had just gotten back from a 300 mile freeway ride under a hard spring rain the entire way from BC to Portland (including an hour in line at the border), came in the door, threw the jacket and pants on the rubber mat in the entryway, and ran to the bathroom for an urgent pee. When I came back to pick up the gear, my cat was curled up inside it. So, yeah, dry.
I've had AD1 pants for the past four years, and I'm less impressed with those. About ten times so far, I've had the zipper teeth on the right leg pull apart as I swing my leg over the bike. Relatively easy to fix, but annoying. My previous pants were Olympias, which were fine as far as waterproofness went, but they let me down as far as crash protection: in a 30mph getoff, the knee armor on both legs rotated away from my kneecaps, and I've still got dark spots on my knees where the cordura melted into them.
______________
* Seriously, I think the thing automatically generates pockets. I just found a new one last week, hiding inside one of the other pockets. Sneaky.
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.... and when you DO decide it's time to put on the rain gear, sometimes there's literally no place to stop and do it. In the Virginia/West Virginia mountains, for example, you can go MILES through the mountains and woods with almost no shoulder, no turn-outs, nothing but ditches and mud along the road, so you either have to stop in the traffic lane and then jump around on one leg trying to pull on an already-wet rain suit on the pavement, or keep going until you find a place to pull over, and then sometimes you're already soaked to the skin.
Lannis
Know where you are coming from here. I found a couple of different rain pants in the UK that have a full length zip right up to the waist, so you can put them on like a sarong & zip down the legs - quickly & no hopping around. Cheap too - single layer siliconised nylon for LSD 29 & lined for LSD 40 or thereabouts. If you come across something like those in your search, it's worth grabbing a pair to try out.
They have worked well for me. Normally reside under/behind the wok on top of the luggage under 2 Velcro straps, so easily accessible. And mated to my Transit pants (no longer available - leather, but waterproof for a couple of hours, & a 3/4 length zip on each leg) and with either silk or merino next to the skin, comfortable in all conditions, at least on the bike - not so good for walking around town when it's 100F.
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Regarding riding jeans, I just picked up a new pair of Dragging Jeans. Kevlar lining. The comfort fit, they added 3% spandex to the jean fabric and it allows for slight stretch. Really seams to be an improvement.
I have been wearing Dragging Jeans for 15 years as my daily jeans as I commute by bike. One get off on the freeway at 50mph. No injury and that pair of jeans just suffered the loss of one belt loop.
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So I think we finally got this sorted, and many thanks to everyone who contributed.
Fay's going with a set of Rukka "Orbita" jacket and pants from Revzilla. She had ordered and returned a set of Klim "Artemis" and a set of Klim "Altitude" because once she tried them on, she didn't like them, either too heavy (the Artemis is made as "Adventure" gear, off-road weight) or too short-armed and -legged (Altitude).
The Rukka jacket is a perfect fit and is the nicest jacket I've ever seen. The pants, at the suggestion of the video that Revzilla provides with every product, she ordered one size down from her "measured" size, but they were too small, so she's returned those and they're sending a size larger; turns out the newer Rukka gear is made exactly to size rather than a bit larger as in years past. It only takes two days to turn around and you only pay shipping once, so not really a problem.
I've ordered an Aerostich "Darien" jacket and "AD1 Light" pants. They were almost "custom" in their size and color, so it was going to be 3 weeks to get them made and shipped, but I called Aerostich, let them know my 'deadline' need, and they've moved me to the front of the production queue and I should have them next week.
Two Snaps Up for both Revzilla's and Aerostich's customer service, too.
We'll need to spend some time breaking them in, since we're leaving right after Labor Day. We decided to keep our old helmets (they're 6 or 7 years old but never "impacted" and still work) and install a pair of "Sena" units to be able to talk to each other; they work really well.
A far cry from the day when we'd just throw on a denim jacket and a plastic rainsuit and boogie, but as the saying goes we are "Too soon old, and too late smart", and we don't mind a bit of comfort these days on a long ride .... !
Lannis
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I'll be looking forward to the reviews! :grin:
For me, the whole thread has been …. uh, educational, but I think not unambiguously conclusive.
Again, looking forward to your review! And do have a nice trip! :thumb:
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Great choices, Lannis. I agree with your better half...Klim doesn’t work for me, either.
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I've ordered an Aerostich "Darien" jacket and "AD1 Light" pants. They were almost "custom" in their size and color, so it was going to be 3 weeks to get them made and shipped, but I called Aerostich, let them know my 'deadline' need, and they've moved me to the front of the production queue and I should have them next week.
Lannis
Well, Aerostich finished my Darien jacket and AD1 pants on Tuesday as promised and I got them in the mail yesterday.
The Darien jacket is surprisingly light; I've been used to much heavier lined textile jackets. It has more snaps, pockets, magnetic catches, vents, zippers, adjusters, and pads than you can shake a stick at - the owners manual is 4 closely-spaced pages. Fits as advertised. I may or may not get a chance to ride with it before we leave on our trip, things have gotten really busy only 3 days before the "off", but I've been wearing it some to get it "broken in" and see if anything chafes.
The AD1 pants are very comfortable, very adjustable, and fit just right when sitting on the bike; it's like they're not there. One tag says "This single layer garment is designed to be worn over street clothes for additional abrasion protection" and another says "You may want to wear shorts under it if the temperature is over 98 degF", but they feel very protective and have nice adjustable padding in them.
I won't be able to do a review until we get back, but I'll know by then "how they are"!
Lannis