Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: NC Steve on April 04, 2018, 06:42:30 PM
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I've been thinking for a while about picking up an 850T or T3 as a solid daily rider, no restorations or anything fancy, just clean and reliable. But, I recently met a guy that runs a small independent shop nearby, who has five, not 1, but 5, G5s that he's accumulated over the last year or so. He spends time on the road following tips on barn finds, and when he's not working on customer's bikes, he's out there 'picking'.
Anyway, the 850s have become quite desirable and pricey the past few years, and I'm thinking of having him get one of the G5s gone thru and running right, with everything working as it should. From some online searching, depending on which site I'm on, it appears the the G5 and T bikes make similar power, with the T maybe making a bit more, surprisingly; I would've expected the 1000 engine to produce more torque, if not horsepower. Their weights look to be similar as well, maybe varying with bags and windshields? I haven't been able to find seat height or wheelbase info, but wouldn't be surprised to see the G5's was longer.
So what's the general opinion? What am I probably overlooking? All advice, warnings and prayers are welcome!
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Go w/G5
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I'm your huckleberry
(http://thumb.ibb.co/m2bjNH/DSCF0009.jpg) (http://ibb.co/m2bjNH)
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One thing to consider: G5s have iron liners (or Nigusil if late enough) not the flake prone chrome bores of the T and T3. Wheelbase should be the same. Seat height will be higher - the G5 has that big, comfy "couch" originally. The 949 engine does have a bit more power and torque in the real world, don't believe "brochure horsepower" claims.
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Apart from an extra 100cc�s there is very little to tell between them. Depending on exact model there may be slight differences in terms of pegs and bars or the like and the G5�s, from memory, have the cast iron bores of the early SP�s so there are no worries about flaking chrome. Of course alternatively there may be problems with rust!
In any case be aware it�s a nearly 40 year old machine so regardless of whether or not you want to �Restore� it it will require considerable work to turn it into a safe daily rider. Apart from obvious things like cleaning out the sump and a full service and tune it will definitely need new brake lines and almost certainly new calipers as the G5�s pre-date the swap to anodised alloy pistons. If the bike has been sitting both calipers and master cylinders will have oysters growing in them!
Then there will be steering head bearings and most likely swing arm bearings. A UJ support bearing and maybe a new UJ.
The wiring loom will be frail and brittle and seals throughout the bike will be old and dry. The front dampers in the forks will be shot as will the shocks and there may well be rusty fork staunchions to deal with as well.
Look, the G5 is a lovely bike, basically a �Naked� SP1000 but go in with your eyes wide open and don�t cut corners. Your life may depend upon it!
Pete
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I'd pick up whatever pops up first. Early 850 T's lack an oil filter so that is one disadvantage.
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I'd pick up whatever pops up first. Early 850 T's lack an oil filter so that is one disadvantage.
I'd pick up the one in the best condition I could find, without regard to which model it was. Lots of them have had a lot of work done. Find one of those.
On the other hand, I haven't really begrudged my T3 the thousands of dollars I've put into her. It's fun to work on them too.
Moto
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G5's are solid bikes. If you can get one for less than a T3, I'd go with the G5. :thumb:
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ALL true but the 850T has a cult like following.. buy the one from Perazzimx14, you can't beat that color..(unless you find a maroon one) !
I'm your huckleberry
(http://thumb.ibb.co/m2bjNH/DSCF0009.jpg) (http://ibb.co/m2bjNH)
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I'll place another vote in favor of the G5. A G5 is about 90+% the same as an 850 T-3 except for the huge advantage of iron bores/cylinders instead of the flaky chrome bores of the 850, and the modest advantage of slightly more power and torque from the 1000 cc (actually 949 cc) G5 engine. Other differences come down to things like the extra comfy G5 seat, slightly different/lower peg location on some G5s, and a few other nits and nats.
For me the bottom line in buying one or the other is the significant advantage of the G5's iron bores. All else being equal, that's about a $500-$750 advantage to the G5, even if you have to do a fresh ring job on the G5. It's still way cheaper than new barrels, pistons, writs pins and rings for an 850 model. In almost every other respect an 850 T-3 and G5 will cost about the same time and money to restore, renovate and refurbish.
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Apart from an extra 100cc�s there is very little to tell between them. Depending on exact model there may be slight differences in terms of pegs and bars or the like and the G5�s, from memory, have the cast iron bores of the early SP�s so there are no worries about flaking chrome. Of course alternatively there may be problems with rust!
In any case be aware it�s a nearly 40 year old machine so regardless of whether or not you want to �Restore� it it will require considerable work to turn it into a safe daily rider. Apart from obvious things like cleaning out the sump and a full service and tune it will definitely need new brake lines and almost certainly new calipers as the G5�s pre-date the swap to anodised alloy pistons. If the bike has been sitting both calipers and master cylinders will have oysters growing in them!
Then there will be steering head bearings and most likely swing arm bearings. A UJ support bearing and maybe a new UJ.
The wiring loom will be frail and brittle and seals throughout the bike will be old and dry. The front dampers in the forks will be shot as will the shocks and there may well be rusty fork staunchions to deal with as well.
Look, the G5 is a lovely bike, basically a �Naked� SP1000 but go in with your eyes wide open and don�t cut corners. Your life may depend upon it!
Pete
All good advice. I just went through all this, including the universal joint and its support bearing on my Eldorado + the swap to Gilardoni Nikasil cylinders.
Plan on spending several $k to make it a safe and reliable daily rider.
Any bike this old is likely to need everything.
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In my opinion the only disadvantage to a G5 is the instrument cluster. I'm sure some people would disagree with me but, I like the dual guages of the T3 over the single on the G5.
Sent from my QTASUN1 using Tapatalk
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In my opinion the only disadvantage to a G5 is the instrument cluster. I'm sure some people would disagree with me but, I like the dual guages of the T3 over the single on the G5.
Later G5 models (early 80s, I believe) had a traditional two-gauge cluster much like an 850 T-3. I do agree on the early models with awkward-looking Convert-style big black box. Here's a comparison:
(https://thumb.ibb.co/dCANRc/261564859_o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dCANRc)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/cbGkex/261565708_o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cbGkex)
multiple photo upload (https://imgbb.com/)
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I find the big convert instrument box ugly as well. 850T also runs a smaller u-joint than the later bikes.
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The G5 will have better (than an 850T) electrical output, better brakes, a better (stock) seat, an oil filter, and possibly cast wheels and floorboards, if'n that's any importance to you. Some of the T's had higher gearing as well. The T is a better running start on a V7 Sport clone project, if that is in your future plans. In addition to the above mentioned items, a new timing chain and tensioner, and aftermarket ignition may be in store for you as well. My latest Guzzi, an 81 G5, feels heftier than my older Ts. Then again, so did my SP1000 when I had it. Might be imaginary.
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ALL true but the 850T has a cult like following.. buy the one from Perazzimx14, you can't beat that color..(unless you find a maroon one) !
Mine also has Gilardoni's
EBC floating front rotor, new caliper and master cylinder to match
Universal and splines are in like new condition
And lots more.
External oil filter
The biggest thing is I have not had it on road for 2 seasons so it'll take me an afternoon to get it back it to road worthyness. It also has a generic headlight bucket as it is a survivor of a windjammer fairing.
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ALL true but the 850T has a cult like following.. buy the one from Perazzimx14, you can't beat that color..(unless you find a maroon one) !
This. He's already spent the money and done the work. The cheapest Guzzi you can find is the most expensive because the owner has already done the work, and will be lucky to realize 50 cents on the dollar spent. The labor is free.. :smiley:
Trust me. I've done several barn finds.
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...who has five, not 1, but 5, G5s that he's accumulated over the last year or so..
I thought that was going to be me, but I couldn't find anymore at the time. I see where they all are now! :grin:
There are two overall generations of the G5.
Generation 1 with the large dashboard and cowled tail light, spoke rims, hard-mounted carbs - 1978-1980
Generation 2 with the smaller (T3 style) dash and Le Mans / SP Tail light, alloy rims, soft-mounted carbs - 1981
Those are the most visible things to easily spot the two. There are other little things that are different between the two, but nothing major. Triples are also different on Generation 2.
Here is my 1981 G5 post restoration. All what has been said in the above replies is true. They'll be lots of parts to replace if you really want to make it safe and reliable. Good thing is that everything is available in one form or another. The T3 do have a cult following, but I've been really pushing and working on brainwashing people into a G5 cult these past few years with some of my posts and pics on this board :grin: . The T (not T3) is in a whole different collector category I think.
In regards to the barn find restoration $ factor. Could easily be purchase price x 10 depending on your restoration goals, so beware.
(http://www.scooteropolis.com/images/guzzi/wg/Groover's%201981%20V1000%20G5%20October%2013%202017.jpg)
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That's a beauty, Groover.. attaboy. :thumb:
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Its kind of like this: You take Sally, I'll take Sue, there aint no difference between the two. :boozing:DonG
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Some of you will know of whom I speak,Ron Tinkham of R&K cycles,who ran the Illinois Guzzi for decades has been riding a G-5 forever. He has had all kinds go thru his shop and the G-5 is his choice! Nuff said...
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I have a 850 t and my first bike was a t3. Both were pretty tragic when I bought them. Buying a finished example will save you a ton of money.
If I was after one I'd look for one with new gilardoni barrels.
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Doesn't the G5 have footboards, whereas only the T3FB had them? Having ridden a Convert and now a Cal 2 for so many years, the footboards, iron liners, and extra 100 cc would definitely sway me toward the G5. Don't see many of them, how in the heck did that guy accumulate 5?
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Last week is the first time that I've ever seen a G5 in the wild. I was told that it was probably the only example in the Houston area right now. So, how many of these bikes made to the US?
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According to this Wikipedia link and the fax image included there, only 3.857 were made of which ~3,000 were military use (police, polizia, etc) leaving 857 civilian.
Not sure if that is accurate, but that's what I know.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_Guzzi_V1000_G5
Forgot to add.... then out of those, most have been chopped and parted out and used for parts and cafe' racers, leaving just a few. Mine, Shorty's and the 5 the guy has in his barn. So 7 total :azn:
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Thanks for all of the input guys. I'm leaning toward the G5 over the 850 as well, but don't know a lot about them, although the stats I've found show them as very similar machines. Yeah, I don't know how he found five G5s either; thing is, he was just hearing about old Guzzis sitting in barns, and they turned out to be G5s. A couple weeks ago he went out for a few days and came back with a Laverda 750S, A Rokon 2wd bike, some undetermined V65 Guzzi, and a Ural Solo. Why anyone would ever buys a Ural solo is beyond my understanding, the only thing that ever made them appealing was the sidecar! But whatever, he also has a few old Triumphs and BSA, small Desmo Ducatis, old Japanese bikes, and a few dirt bikes/scramblers from Husqvarna, Ossa, and probably a few others. Many of these bikes are in various stages of disrepair, but from I've seen most appear to be fairly complete.
I've only had my eyes on 3 of the Guzzis so far, but the good thing I'm seeing is that there are apparently various years of G5s represented, with wire or cast wheels, dual vs. single gauge clusters, etc. I haven't paid much attention to things like seats, tanks, bags and such yet, but there are also both footboards and pegs available. We haven't talked about any money or builds yet, but I'll be going back out to the shop in the next couple of days to pick up a BMW he's working on for me, and am thinking I'd like to sit down and have a talk about making a reliable runner out of what he's got.
ps: And Groover, daaaamn man, that's a nice resto G5 you've got! :thumb:
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, he was just hearing about old Guzzis sitting in barns, and they turned out to be G5s. A couple weeks ago he went out for a few days and came back with a Laverda 750S, A Rokon 2wd bike, some undetermined V65 Guzzi, and a Ural Solo.
HOW DO PEOPLE DO THIS!? Is there a website where people share sites of old barns where it's rumored there are old motorcycles parked inside? Or do they actually drive the countryside and knock on the doors of homes where an old barn sits, or do they go to every estate sale advertised in the local paper? Good for him! That's what I wanna do when I grow up!
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HOW DO PEOPLE DO THIS!? Is there a website where people share sites of old barns where it's rumored there are old motorcycles parked inside? Or do they actually drive the countryside and knock on the doors of homes where an old barn sits, or do they go to every estate sale advertised in the local paper? Good for him! That's what I wanna do when I grow up!
I've been wondering the same thing for 30 years. I've never found a damn thing abandoned in a barn or behind Grandpappy's old pickup. All I know is he apparently has people out there that know he buys old bikes that need work, and they must let him know when they see anything he might be interested in. Larry Chabira, aka Lamont Sanfurd on Ebay, has been doing the same thing for many years, with old Airheads and Guzzis; he has 2 bikes for sale or trade listed right now here on the MGNOC classifieds, an Ambo and a Convert, and always has lots of parts for sale on Ebay. I've scratched my head many times over how and where he finds all of these things.
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There are Frankenguzzi G5s, too. A friend had an 80 G5 LAPD that the PD didnt buy. It had a skinny seat-put it on my T and the standard rear fender/tail light, not the cowled one. Had the big tiller bars with Vert speedo and the switches at the grips for lights, siren, etc. And it had foot boards.
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I have an early G5 civilian, got pegs and a tach. There is another one in Alberta, so that makes 9. DonG :boozing:
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I have an old 850T, I've owned it for maybe 18 yrs now, someone said the lack of an oil filter is a bad thing, I
have to disagree as mine has 150k + miles and I'm not removing an oil pan every time I change oil. The cylinders, pistons, brake caliper, uj, hanger bearing and other things I have forgotten have all been replaced. I
would feel very confident in taking the old girl anywhere right now today. However other Guzzies are more comfortable for the long haul I do like the old T. Next time I get out I guess it will be with the T.
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Most G5's will have floorboards instead of footrests. The ones with the footrests are positioned slightly ahead of the footrests on the T's. There is a small tach that mounts just behind the big ugly speedo box but is a bit hard to find as is the rubber mount for it.
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To make at least 10, here's my friend in MA's G5 that he turned into a stunning cafe' for his wife; a few changes and upgrades were made.
I'm sure he won't mind me posting these, he's a member here too.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dUDyjx/rat_G5.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dUDyjx)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nwcDHH/20170318_175531_X2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nwcDHH)
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Yep, I'm a fan of the G5 too! This is my version.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/c38LxH/image.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c38LxH)
p :embarrassed:
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I cannot remember. Were the G-5/ Converts/ SP1000S the last of the roundheads?
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Get one of each and eliminate any regret... :boozing:
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The 1000cc engine with 36mm dellortos is a thing of beauty.
Harry
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My first bike was a '74 850-T and I've a real soft spot for them. It had lower bars, LeMans 850 III exhausts and had a big bore kit in it. It was awesome and I miss it.
I wouldn't say lack of an oil filter would be any concern in and of itself. Ambassadors and Eldorados don't have oil filters either and there's a ton of them still alive and kicking.
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This. He's already spent the money and done the work. The cheapest Guzzi you can find is the most expensive because the owner has already done the work, and will be lucky to realize 50 cents on the dollar spent. The labor is free.. :smiley:
Trust me. I've done several barn finds.
True. I could've bought Perazzimx14's Eldorado for less than the money I put into my Eldorado above it's $3,500 purchase price.
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Had this Gen2 G5 last year...like a lot if Guzzi's I've had...kinda wish I'd kept for a while longer...
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cMoUrc/IMG_3881_zpswhybuffc_L.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cMoUrc)
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My 1979 G5 with box and pegs. It did not have the original air filter, but an empty box like http://hmb-guzzi.de/Luftfiltergehaeuse-Ansauggummi-V7-Sport-750-S-750-S3-850-T .
The VIN = VG156nn.
[Without this great forum I maybe would not have dared to buy it, which would have been a pity as the models in question are among the most beautiful bikes of all ages. Ran nicely on the very short trips I did, but fuel lines etc. were probably OM and quite mouldy. Changed this and that and played with the carbs over a good part of last summer, but now gave it to a pro for new break lines and for checking general reliability befor the upcoming season and some serious riding]
(http://thumb.ibb.co/deGGMc/DSC_0080.jpg) (http://ibb.co/deGGMc)
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A lot of nice bikes here, I enjoy a SP1000 on 3rd season and overall have nothing but good things to say about the "family"
A few things to note:
The standard carburettor is a 30mm square slide dellorto which apparently gets worn in a pattern so it either sticks open or allow false air to pass. Many people including myself upgrade to a round slide, either a 32mm or 36mm like on the LM1/2. If you go for a 36mm, you can get tapered manifolds to bolt right on.
The sidestand is different on models with floorboards and with pegs (I think). As mine were born with pegs and had a cracy short stick as a side stand which flips up automatically and is a drop just wait to happen. Try to get one with the long side stand like the white original bike in the post above
Wheels is a matter of taste - I would think the spoke wheels are a bit more popular for cafe racers and gives a more classy view... but the alloy rims can run tubeless
my 2 cents
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One nice G5 being posted right after another here; Mine's not looking so great by comparison anymore! The Rosso Madeira one EldoMike posted is a great example of a 1981 model. Mine was like that originally, but had been repainted blue and had "seen the road" a lot more when I got it.
I think I see another G5 in my garage in the near future.... :tongue:
Or maybe not. Who knows - depends on :thewife:
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G5 article found on the net: https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2009/april/moto-guzzi-v1000g5---the-rottweiler-of-the-motorcycle-world/ :wink:
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The G5 I bought in '90 for $800 and fixed up. Top photo was "as bought", lower two was after I did a lot of work. Loved the big old "tour pig". Sold it sometime around '92.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kT49rc/79_Moto_Guzzi_G5_001.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kT49rc)
One I worked on for a customer several years ago.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mMEyjx/Kurt_s_G5_003.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mMEyjx)
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It also has a generic headlight bucket as it is a survivor of a windjammer fairing.
Never heard it put that way before. I had a GT-750 Suzuki that came to me with a Windjammer, and I know exactly what you mean ..... !
Lannis
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I cannot remember. Were the G-5/ Converts/ SP1000S the last of the roundheads?
Add in the CX.
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The 83 SP1000 was the last of the roundfins that were imported into the US. Moto Guzzi did make the 850 T4 roundfin and the G5 into 1985 for other markets and Police Depts.
Here is your customers old G5 Charles , one of my favorite Guzzis here. Unmolested ones are sure getting hard to find , I looked for a bunch of years.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gYeqgc/DSCN1246_2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gYeqgc)
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The 83 SP1000 was the last of the roundfins that were imported into the US. Moto Guzzi did make the 850 T4 roundfin and the G5 into 1985 for other markets and Police Depts.
Here is your customers old G5 Charles , one of my favorite Guzzis here. Unmolested ones are sure getting hard to find , I looked for a bunch of years.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gYeqgc/DSCN1246_2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gYeqgc)
:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
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The 83 SP1000 was the last of the roundfins that were imported into the US. Moto Guzzi did make the 850 T4 roundfin and the G5 into 1985 for other markets and Police Depts.
Here is your customers old G5 Charles , one of my favorite Guzzis here. Unmolested ones are sure getting hard to find , I looked for a bunch of years.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gYeqgc/DSCN1246_2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gYeqgc)
Very nice! :thumb: :thumb:
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To make at least 10, here's my friend in MA's G5 that he turned into a stunning cafe' for his wife; a few changes and upgrades were made.
I'm sure he won't mind me posting these, he's a member here too.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nwcDHH/20170318_175531_X2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nwcDHH)
THAT is cool!
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That’s Jaqui’s bike! I know that :laugh:
It’s actually a nice Cafe.the problem I have is that every asshole and his brain dead dog is buying up old T’s Nd G’s/SP’s and doing much worse than this to them all in the name of the retro ‘Cafe’ craze. Very soon there won’t be any of these wonderful and far more practical machines left because they will all of been turned into bought from a catalog ‘Art Bike’ junkers.
Pete
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I still have a number in stock trim. :thumb:
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Add mine,I've owned this 81 G-5 for 21 wonderful years, sounds like I'm describing my wife.. :thewife: I've have tinkered with it some over the years , it's a great running machine.Easy to work on and maintain.My original G-5 round head engine was getting tired so at 100.000 miles I replaced it with a low mileage Cal2 engine,thats whats in it now.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/duEnmc/101B1600.jpg) (http://ibb.co/duEnmc)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/f60n2H/101B1430.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f60n2H)
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And mine,I've owned this 81 G-5 for 21 wonderful years, sounds like I'm describing my wife.. :thewife: I've have tinkered with it some over the years , it's a beautiful running machine.Easy to work on and maintain.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/duEnmc/101B1600.jpg) (http://ibb.co/duEnmc)
Nice instruments. Nice bike. I like the "1" you added at the left of the odometer! Hope you get to "2."
Moto
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And mine,I've owned this 81 G-5 for 21 wonderful years, sounds like I'm describing my wife.. :thewife: I've have tinkered with it some over the years , it's a great running machine.Easy to work on and maintain.My original G-5 round head engine was getting tired so at 100.000 miles I replaced it with a low mileage Cal2 engine,thats whats in it now.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/duEnmc/101B1600.jpg) (http://ibb.co/duEnmc)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/f60n2H/101B1430.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f60n2H)
Someone who takes their voltage and oil seriously. :thumb: Those toggle switches would dress up nicely and possibly extend their life with some cute rubber boots. Available in formal black or business gray on ebay, for nickels.
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Hmm there are surprisingly few blue ones being posted here. I thought it was one of the more common G5 colours? It does look very good on them, IMO. Mine is all original, exept for the exhaust system and seat. It has 60.000 km on it. Imported from Italy to Germany, then to the Netherlands. It also has the older dials (like the convert but with a tacho) and cast wheels, a weird combo.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ieowgc/L1010047.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ieowgc)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bU7NMc/L1010050.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bU7NMc)
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I like that Ice blue on the G5. Not sure if they imported any G5s in the color in the US. It was however an imported color option for the Convert models from what I can tell. And SP1000.
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My SP1000NT is ice blue. I should have follow through with the pursuit of an ice blue 850LeMans. :embarrassed: Got a red one though.
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I really like that ice blue too, also the black & white as on a couple of the bikes shown above.
I was over at my guy with the 5 G5's shop earlier this afternoon, and one of the bikes there is the ice blue color.
He's covered up with work right now, but we talked a little about putting together a reliable runner the other day, and when he gets room to breathe I think we might try a build. His bikes are nowhere near as shiny and clean as the ones here in this thread, but it turns out he's a pretty fair painter too, so if I ride the thing ratty for a while and fall in love, I may ask him to shoot a new coat on it over the winter.