Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Huzo on June 04, 2018, 09:22:27 AM
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Now I know there are a few Norges of various valve configurations, racking up some fairly decent mileages in all sorts of places and although not unheard of, those at or above 200,000 k are rather rare.
I think IT Sec has gone over and maybe some others but I've got a ways to go yet.
But here's the thing..
I'm specifically interested in Norges, especially 2 valvers 'cos I've got one, and the question is, what pre emptive maintenance did you find became necessary between 150 and 200 ?
How was your clutch ?
Bevels ?
Rings ?
Guides ?
I've chatted over drinks with Pete on this one, and I did read with interest, the work, (or lack of) required at the 200 k tear down of the 1200 Sport.
He reassured me that in all likelihood, rings, k- lines, and a head job (...!), would probably see things right on a well ridden and maintained one.
Naturally, there'd be general perusal of head bearings, swingarm pivot greasing...etc.
I'd just kind of formed the opinion that 200+ is starting to enter a fairly rarified zone...?
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K what? Those poncy Napoleonic ones or full-sized English ones?
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K what? Those poncy Napoleonic ones or full-sized English ones?
Was thinking about the real ones.
BTW..
Did you mean 850's..?
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Would I be able to see a shot or shots, of IT Sec's or Lannis' bike...?
Any other high k's 2V Norge would be beaut also.
Thanks.
Huzo.
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Was thinking about the real ones.
BTW..
Did you mean 850's..?
Sorry, I was too obtuse in my question.
200,000 miles or 200,000 kilometers? Not that it makes a lot of difference but there's not many 200,000 mile Norges about.
Mine's a Stelvio.
Lannis
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Although the Norge is a lot newer than the old Cali and would have a few advancements inside the engine it's still the basic mill same as the rest of the big blocks so I can't see why it shouldn't do what they often did with longevity.
When my Cali3 had about 90K on it Pete recommended a new set of rings and a cam chain tensioner and a couple of seals. That was about it, though because the gearbox was made with plastic caged main bearings I pulled it out and got Pete to fit new bearings throughout, though the small needle rollers remained as they were both hard to get and still in good nick.
I think it's mainly the rings that you need to pre-empt as if they break you're up for a rebore and pistons and stuff but if you keep a good set of rings going say every 100,000 or maybe if there's a change in compression or you start using a bit of oil, and while that's being done you have the heads serviced, I'd say you should be able to clock up hundreds of thousands of K's.
I was told some time that some blokes had over 600K on their Guzzi's still running original motors, though I haven't seen the proof. But due to the very good quality of the bores they don't seem to wear like you'd see in a car of that age where you'd definitely need to remove the lip.
It does need a hone with new rings though as that roughing up gives the new rings something to bed in against.
The only thing is after a few hundred thousand it's possible you might get a bit bored with the old Guzz and go looking for something a bit more interesting and fun, like a Ducati for instance. Just saying. :grin:
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Although the Norge is a lot newer than the old Cali and would have a few advancements inside the engine it's still the basic mill same as the rest of the big blocks so I can't see why it shouldn't do what they often did with longevity.
When my Cali3 had about 90K on it Pete recommended a new set of rings and a cam chain tensioner and a couple of seals. That was about it, though because the gearbox was made with plastic caged main bearings I pulled it out and got Pete to fit new bearings throughout, though the small needle rollers remained as they were both hard to get and still in good nick.
I think it's mainly the rings that you need to pre-empt as if they break you're up for a rebore and pistons and stuff but if you keep a good set of rings going say every 100,000 or maybe if there's a change in compression or you start using a bit of oil, and while that's being done you have the heads serviced, I'd say you should be able to clock up hundreds of thousands of K's.
I was told some time that some blokes had over 600K on their Guzzi's still running original motors, though I haven't seen the proof. But due to the very good quality of the bores they don't seem to wear like you'd see in a car of that age where you'd definitely need to remove the lip.
It does need a hone with new rings though as that roughing up gives the new rings something to bed in against.
The only thing is after a few hundred thousand it's possible you might get a bit bored with the old Guzz and go looking for something a bit more interesting and fun, like a Ducati for instance. Just saying. :grin:
Si tous les cons volaient, on ne verrait plus le soleil
Nikasil does not take a rebore , replate if worn out / damaged
But 200k real miles not a lot for nikasil
Rering when it needs it, leakdown will tell you if fuel / oil consumption does not, no need to tear apart
Jury out on honing nikasil, google for more but very important to clean properly.
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My Norge is currently at 137,000 miles (call it 200,000 km). I am getting ready to take it down for major maintenance so that it can go that far again.
Things I've had to do so far:
- Replace starter at about 90,000 miles
- Replace seal at the rear wheel at about 80,000 miles; while the unit was apart I replaced the bearing as well, but it could have gone further
- Replace alternator belt about every 50,000 miles
- All the usual maintenance stuff as in the manual, but usually at longer intervals than recommended since I do a lot of highway miles
Things that will be part of the major maintenance (done by a real mechanic/tech, not fumble-fingered me!):
- full clutch service (it's not terrible yet, but it isn't as good as it should be)
- timing chain and maybe gears
- probably replace rear engine seal while stuff is off and accessible
- full testing and possible service of alternator
- full testing and possible service of engine (i.e., check compression, check leak-down), especially valves and valve guides or whatever
- lube everything in sight, and double lube everything not in sight since I never check that enough
- new bearings in the triple tree and maybe some other places
- new seals on the forks
I may think of something more as a result of this discussion. Good thing I've got the Stelvio and Griso to ride since this will likely take some time.
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Sorry, I was too obtuse in my question.
200,000 miles or 200,000 kilometers? Not that it makes a lot of difference but there's not many 200,000 mile Norges about.
Mine's a Stelvio.
Lannis
I was thinking k's mate.
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My Norge is currently at 137,000 miles (call it 200,000 km). I am getting ready to take it down for major maintenance so that it can go that far again.
Things I've had to do so far:
- Replace starter at about 90,000 miles
- Replace seal at the rear wheel at about 80,000 miles; while the unit was apart I replaced the bearing as well, but it could have gone further
- Replace alternator belt about every 50,000 miles
- All the usual maintenance stuff as in the manual, but usually at longer intervals than recommended since I do a lot of highway miles
Things that will be part of the major maintenance (done by a real mechanic/tech, not fumble-fingered me!):
- full clutch service (it's not terrible yet, but it isn't as good as it should be)
- timing chain and maybe gears
- probably replace rear engine seal while stuff is off and accessible
- full testing and possible service of alternator
- full testing and possible service of engine (i.e., check compression, check leak-down), especially valves and valve guides or whatever
- lube everything in sight, and double lube everything not in sight since I never check that enough
- new bearings in the triple tree and maybe some other places
- new seals on the forks
I may think of something more as a result of this discussion. Good thing I've got the Stelvio and Griso to ride since this will likely take some time.
THAT'S what I'm talking about..!
137,000 miles is over 200,000 k
Most of the preventative stuff you mention was what I would have done intuitively but good to read your perspective.
How the hell do you manage to do that much distance.?
I owned my Triumph Sprint ST concurrently with the Norge and did 70,000 on that, so I guess it could be said that those k's didn't go onto the Guzzi, but all the same, you've really done SOME travelling..!
Pete says that even at 200 k, once you've looked at the rings, guides , camchain and such, there's not a lot of reason to suspect anything is going to let go catastrophically.
I'm on the same page as you maintenance wise IT.
On the subject of the cutch, how do you ascertain that it's not as good as it could be ?
Does it slip under provocation.?
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While my engine work is being done, it will be my chance to do all the checking and lubrication work that is within my capability.
Headstem bearing lube/replace, swingarm pivot/spline lube (again), check u-joint condition, Pete can advise me on bevel pre-emptive work.
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THAT'S what I'm talking about..!
137,000 miles is over 200,000 k
Most of the preventative stuff you mention was what I would have done intuitively but good to read your perspective.
How the hell do you manage to do that much distance.?
I owned my Triumph Sprint ST concurrently with the Norge and did 70,000 on that, so I guess it could be said that those k's didn't go onto the Guzzi, but all the same, you've really done SOME travelling..!
Pete says that even at 200 k, once you've looked at the rings, guides , camchain and such, there's not a lot of reason to suspect anything is going to let go catastrophically.
I'm on the same page as you maintenance wise IT.
On the subject of the clutch, how do you ascertain that it's not as good as it could be ?
Does it slip under provocation.?
The clutch slips if (for example) I am traveling at moderate highway speed and then accelerate hard - for example, being at 60 mph (100 kph) and then hitting the gas for a pass or such.
As for how I get that distance, for most of the past 6 years the Norge was my only bike. Also, I do a lot (!) of Ironbutt rides, usually at least 3 or 4 a year, sometimes more. While the basic IBA ride is 1000 miles in 24 hours or less, many of mine have been multi-day rides of 1200+ miles per day. Here's one I developed that is now a recognized IBA ride - http://ironbutt.com/themerides/spacechase/SpaceChaseNarrative_McQ.html (http://ironbutt.com/themerides/spacechase/SpaceChaseNarrative_McQ.html)
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The clutch slips if (for example) I am traveling at moderate highway speed and then accelerate hard - for example, being at 60 mph (100 kph) and then hitting the gas for a pass or such....
Hence why it uses less fuel at 100kmh than an 8V ??? :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Hence why it uses less fuel at 100kmh than an 8V ??? :evil: :evil: :evil:
Arse..!
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The clutch slips if (for example) I am traveling at moderate highway speed and then accelerate hard - for example, being at 60 mph (100 kph) and then hitting the gas for a pass or such.
As for how I get that distance, for most of the past 6 years the Norge was my only bike. Also, I do a lot (!) of Ironbutt rides, usually at least 3 or 4 a year, sometimes more. While the basic IBA ride is 1000 miles in 24 hours or less, many of mine have been multi-day rides of 1200+ miles per day. Here's one I developed that is now a recognized IBA ride - http://ironbutt.com/themerides/spacechase/SpaceChaseNarrative_McQ.html (http://ironbutt.com/themerides/spacechase/SpaceChaseNarrative_McQ.html)
Serious distance.
Thanks IT. Pretty much the guts of what Pete said.
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Arse..!
succinct and to the point ... well done :evil: :evil: :evil:
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succinct and to the point ... well done :evil: :evil: :evil:
I hope you break that other ankle..!
Look forward to seeing you BTW.
Let's know if you're anywhere near.
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I hope you break that other ankle..!
Look forward to seeing you BTW.
Let's know if you're anywhere near.
The pain from one ankle reconstruction is enough thank you
Tossing around a few trip ideas at the moment ... I'll keep you in the loop. :evil: :evil: :evil:
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The pain from one ankle reconstruction is enough thank you
Tossing around a few trip ideas at the moment ... I'll keep you in the loop. :evil: :evil: :evil:
Hmm.
A self confessed tosser..!
Who's innocent of that crime ?
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Hmm.
A self confessed tosser..!
Who's innocent of that crime ?
Get a grip Huzo :rolleyes:
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Hmm.
A self confessed tosser..!
Who's innocent of that crime ?
Mostly, the innocent would be those not in the bar - the dwarves were complicit!
Or maybe you mean the other kind of 'tosser' :wink:
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Mostly, the innocent would be those not in the bar - the dwarves were complicit!
Or maybe you mean the other kind of 'tosser' :wink:
Yes.
Akin to the loose oscillatory motion of the wrist, generally palm up, in the vast majority of cases right handed, but not universally so, most commonly demonstrated when performing the function of "feeding the chooks", or the chickens if in the 'States.. :wink: :embarrassed: