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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: kballowe on July 05, 2018, 07:38:55 AM

Title: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: kballowe on July 05, 2018, 07:38:55 AM
We are OK - no injuries.
I'm beginning to believe in Guardian Angels.

We were out riding yesterday, 2-up on the red bike - on a rural Missouri road.
For some unknown reason, an oncoming car pulled directly into the path of the car that was in front of us.  Both cars were traveling at approximately 55 mph.   It was an instant and horrific crash.

Thankfully, we managed to miss the accident by a foot and a half.... at the end of a 122 102 foot skid.
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(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1810/42495392714_44f1f07afc_b.jpg)
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(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1786/42309822575_4b0dbddb0f_b.jpg).
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This crash happened virtually instantly and without warning on a nice, sunny day in a rural area where one would feel a bit more safe from the chaotic traffic of the cities. 

Life is short. Try to have a little fun each day
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: yogidozer on July 05, 2018, 07:54:08 AM
HOLY KRAP! You were lucky!!!
Another good reason to keep a good distance between you and the vehicle in front.
There had to be injuries at least.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: lucian on July 05, 2018, 08:01:16 AM
Man, that's too close. Glad you managed to keep the bike upright. nice job.  Better check that rear tire for a flat spot. Sorry it happened, but glad you're both ok. Thank's for sharing and helping all of us see first hand the dangers we all face out there.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: fotoguzzi on July 05, 2018, 08:01:48 AM
You laid down a lot of rubber, nice riding!
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 05, 2018, 08:17:57 AM
Relieved that you are all okay,  but the carnage must have been tough to witness
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: oldbike54 on July 05, 2018, 08:25:15 AM
  :shocked:

 Sometimes life is a game of inches . Glad you are both OK Kevin .

 Dusty
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Mean Mr. Mustard on July 05, 2018, 08:37:12 AM
I'm very happy that everyone is ok.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Sasquatch Jim on July 05, 2018, 08:43:29 AM
 Not even enough time to say,"OH F#$%K*N SH*T"!  The one driver broke his car pretty bad.  The other is merely totaled.
 Hair teeth and eyeballs all over the road.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: John A on July 05, 2018, 08:55:31 AM
You did well avoiding that mess. What a surprise.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Guzzi Gal on July 05, 2018, 09:16:36 AM
Jesus, Mary, and Joseph! :shocked: I'm so sorry you were forced into such horrific circumstances and very happy you both were able to ride home.   
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: tazio on July 05, 2018, 09:23:24 AM
Sweet Lord! These kinds of "events" are opportunities to reassess priorities...
AND that is a crazy STRAIGHT and long skid!!!!!
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: redrider90 on July 05, 2018, 10:17:51 AM
You laid down a lot of rubber, nice riding!

Is laying down rubber on a hot dry road a good or bad thing? I gotta admit that length of rubber and keeping the bike up is great driving skills. Are you loosing traction laying down rubber on dry road or does the drag of tearing rubber off the tire give more friction. Stupid question? I know I know about ABS but he held it straight and it was not slick pavement nor rain or snow which would indicate the tire(s) being locked and losing traction. I never could figure this one out.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: old head on July 05, 2018, 10:33:19 AM
Is laying down rubber on a hot dry road a good or bad thing? I gotta admit that length of rubber and keeping the bike up is great driving skills. Are you loosing traction laying down rubber on dry road or does the drag of tearing rubber off the tire give more friction. Stupid question? I know I know about ABS but he held it straight and it was not slick pavement nor rain or snow which would indicate the tire(s) being locked and losing traction. I never could figure this one out.

generally, on a dry road, ABS will lengthen stopping distance as the rubber sliding has more friction than the ABS trying to keep the tire from sliding.

on a slick surface, ABS will stop you quicker as the locked tire will slide much easier on water and water will reduce friction quite a bit

Old Head.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Delta425 on July 05, 2018, 11:12:14 AM
generally, on a dry road, ABS will lengthen stopping distance as the rubber sliding has more friction than the ABS trying to keep the tire from sliding.

on a slick surface, ABS will stop you quicker as the locked tire will slide much easier on water and water will reduce friction quite a bit

Old Head.

NO!  This is WAY wrong and just basic physics.  Go to the following link for a simple breakdown of braking forces:  https://www.quora.com/How-does-ABS-reduce-stopping-distance-theoretically
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: kingoffleece on July 05, 2018, 11:21:06 AM
Wow.  JUST............... ..............wow
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: John Croucher on July 05, 2018, 11:43:27 AM
Looks like a huge chunk of concrete in the road in your first picture.  Maybe the driver was trying to avoid it.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: TimmyTheHog on July 05, 2018, 11:45:30 AM
JEEZ Mother of luck!!!!

Glad you are here and well to tell the tale!  :thumb:

You miss by an inch, you miss by a mile!

Be safe out there brother...
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Rhodan on July 05, 2018, 11:48:07 AM
I drink a toast to skill and Lady Luck.  Glad you're both fine.  A definite pucker moment.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: bad Chad on July 05, 2018, 12:55:30 PM
Wow,  that had to be sickening to experience,  you guys are dam lucky !

Holding a locked rear wheel is not hard, keeping a locked front wheel up, now that takes massive talent!   A rolling tire pushed right up to lock will always stop quicker than a locked tire.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: canuck750 on July 05, 2018, 01:12:25 PM
WOW!  That is a horrible crash, glad you escaped becoming collateral damage!
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: davedel44 on July 05, 2018, 01:18:47 PM
 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Dave
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: normzone on July 05, 2018, 02:18:55 PM
Helicopter sitting on the road and it appears to be shut down - never a good sign.

Nice skid, nice miss.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on July 05, 2018, 02:37:56 PM
Attaboy.  :thumb: Didn't have to "lay her down"..and end up being involved in the crash. Whew! That is an ugly one.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Delta425 on July 05, 2018, 02:43:14 PM
BTW, if you want to REALLY shorten your stopping distance, use the front brake next time.

Glad you weren't hurt.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: sdcr on July 05, 2018, 03:10:07 PM
 My sentiments also.
Helicopter sitting on the road and it appears to be shut down - never a good sign.

Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: twowheeladdict on July 05, 2018, 03:19:24 PM
Looks like a huge chunk of concrete in the road in your first picture.  Maybe the driver was trying to avoid it.

More than likely, texting.  My wife almost witnessed the same thing but the vehicle in front of her with a farm tractor on a trailer took the ditch and the oncoming driver swerved back and took the other ditch.  My wife was hauling horses.

I tell people that sometimes I feel safer on the bike than I do in a car.  On the bike I move to the white line when approaching oncoming traffic and then back towards the yellow line once past.  That gives me a lot more space to avoid something than i would have in the car. 
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: craigclu on July 05, 2018, 03:31:48 PM
What was the result of the accident for the occupants of the cars?  Sometimes the energy absorbing ability of modern cars can make an accident aftermath look horrendous with less injury than expected.  This looks nasty though as it appears there was a great amount of intrusion into one car.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Pizza Guzzi on July 05, 2018, 07:09:16 PM
Thank God you are both OK. I can't imagine how traumatic that was - I know I would have needed a good sit down before continuing.

Glenn
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Huzo on July 05, 2018, 09:43:08 PM
Yeah well, first things first very glad you're ok.
That really could have ended very badly through no fault of yours. Just a question that harks back a bit, the skid mark you left suggests a full lock up with no traction regained at any stage and you stopped with 1 1/2 feet to spare.
You were there I wasn't, but in your estimation, what would have happened if you'd released the brake slightly to prevent the wheel from locking, at what speed do you think you'd have hit the car/s ?
A few will see where I'm going here...
Would ABS have stopped you sooner or resulted in a collision ?
Surely releasing the brake to regain traction would mean there was little or no retardation during the "brake off" period.
So I'm suggesting that with ABS activating, you'da crashed.
I'm sure Sumner Miller or Newton will shoot me down from beyond the grave..

(https://thumb.ibb.co/koKmCJ/IMG_0985.png) (https://ibb.co/koKmCJ)

And call me old fashioned, but just a little tasteless squeezing off a happy snap of a crash scene where someone died with "hair and eyeballs" all over the road...
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Gliderjohn on July 05, 2018, 09:54:30 PM
Glad you are all okay. Had a similar experience a few years ago while stopped at a major intersection in Wichita. In the lane next to me a car rear ended the vehicle stopped next to me at what I would estimate at 45-50 mph. Never heard any braking just a massive explosion and being hit all over by debris. My front tire was flat the next morning cut by some debris. Could have just as easily been me being hit. Does get ones attention.
GliderJohn
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Nic in Western NYS on July 06, 2018, 05:20:48 AM
Glad you are physically OK.  That will leave a toll on your spirit.  I can't figure out why one car is so much more severely damaged than the other.  They are very close on the road so I'm guessing it wasn't a rollover that caused the extra damage.  Was there a big mass difference between the cars or was one a cheap make?  Again, all the best to you for keeping it upright and living to ride another day.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: kballowe on July 06, 2018, 07:51:15 AM
The bigger car is a 2002 Buick Century and the silver car is a 2007 Chevy Aveo.  In the picture, they had already cut away some of the Chevy to extricate the driver - making it look much more damaged.

As far as braking - it's hard to tell from the pic, but the first part of the skid is much darker because the front brake was heavily engaged and contributing to the skid mark.  I eased up on it, just a fuzz, when I felt the slide. 

Very closely inspected the tires - and they look normal.  No discernible flat spots.  Had a friend come over and take a look.  Same conclusion.

This bike has Bridgestone 721/722 tires with approx 6,000 miles and date codes late in 2013.  OEM factory tires on a new clearance 2014 model - purchased last year.  Possibly hard rubber - I don't know.  What I DO know is that I ordered a set of tires this morning. 

It's two days later now - and I am still shocked how something like this happens on a flat, straight rural road with virtually perfect visibility.

Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: kballowe on July 06, 2018, 07:55:09 AM
Looks like a huge chunk of concrete in the road in your first picture.  Maybe the driver was trying to avoid it.

It's a mirror from the crash.

$hit was flying everywhere.  We were both hit with pieces, but thankfully just minor injuries.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: swooshdave on July 06, 2018, 08:59:58 AM
Did you find out what happened to the occupants?
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: kballowe on July 06, 2018, 09:24:09 AM
Did you find out what happened to the occupants?

Driver of silver car extricated after an hour effort by two rescue crews, then airlifted.  Expected to fully recover after extended therapy.

Please say a prayer for the soul of the other driver.

Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Garp on July 06, 2018, 09:45:03 AM
You were there I wasn't, but in your estimation, what would have happened if you'd released the brake slightly to prevent the wheel from locking, at what speed do you think you'd have hit the car/s ?
A few will see where I'm going here...
Would ABS have stopped you sooner or resulted in a collision ?
Surely releasing the brake to regain traction would mean there was little or no retardation during the "brake off" period.
So I'm suggesting that with ABS activating, you'da crashed.

ABS doesn't shut the brakes off, it just reduces the pressure enough to get the wheel spinning again, the idea is to keep the wheel right at the edge of locking, which is where you get maximum braking. Like you, I wasn't there, but it's generally accepted that unless you're a highly skilled rider who's practiced maximum braking, you'll stop quicker with ABS than without.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: blackcat on July 06, 2018, 09:59:26 AM
Driver of silver car extricated after an hour effort by two rescue crews, then airlifted.  Expected to fully recover after extended therapy.

Please say a prayer for the soul of the other driver.

Which driver was at fault?
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: kballowe on July 06, 2018, 10:04:17 AM
Which driver was at fault?

Gold car
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: wymple on July 06, 2018, 06:12:02 PM
"It's two days later now - and I am still shocked how something like this happens on a flat, straight rural road with virtually perfect visibility."

It's called stupidity, and is extremely common.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: groundhog105 on July 06, 2018, 07:05:36 PM
That had to be a horrific thing to witness.  Good job on avoiding the mess.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Huzo on July 06, 2018, 08:20:37 PM


It's called stupidity, and is extremely common.
Unless of course the poor bugger had a heart attack at the wheel or similar..
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Paul Brooking on July 06, 2018, 11:04:22 PM
There is another, horrific, reason for this type of road crash.
A significant number of rural head on crashes, rollovers and hit roadside objects (tree) are as a result of a suicide attempt. A very scary thought when you are on the road.
How do I know?  I work in Transport Planning as an Economist and I have to use adjusted fatality rates when assessing road improvement projects.
The Australian National Road Toll is net of all known suicide deaths [emoji22][emoji22][emoji22]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Huzo on July 07, 2018, 05:16:11 AM
That's very interesting Paul.
Are there any stats on people catching alight from following motorcycles at a seemingly safe distance..?
Now I know how John Lee Pettimore felt down on Copperhead Road..!
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Paul Brooking on July 07, 2018, 05:17:33 AM
That's very interesting Paul.
Are there any stats on people catching alight from following motorcycles at a seemingly safe distance..?
Now I know how John Lee Pettimore felt down on Copperhead Road..!
If only someone had had their GoPro on   [emoji79]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: Nic in Western NYS on July 07, 2018, 07:02:52 AM
There is another, horrific, reason for this type of road crash.
A significant number of rural head on crashes, rollovers and hit roadside objects (tree) are as a result of a suicide attempt. A very scary thought when you are on the road.
How do I know?  I work in Transport Planning as an Economist and I have to use adjusted fatality rates when assessing road improvement projects.
The Australian National Road Toll is net of all known suicide deaths [emoji22][emoji22][emoji22]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That was my thought because the OP said it was a sudden swerve.  Distracted driving would lead to more of a drift or a lack of response rather than an abrupt input.
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: kballowe on July 08, 2018, 06:31:10 AM
CORRECTION

I left home at 5am this morning with a 100ft reel measure and personally measured the skid.
It's 102 feet and a few inches.  Not 122 feet.

I must have mis-heard them, because I don't think they would make a mistake like that.

Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: twodogs on July 08, 2018, 07:08:12 AM
Glad you're still with us and ok, 102 or 122 don't matter, I was thinking if that happened to me on the g5 it would be a different story. Once again glad you're ok.
Bruce
Title: Re: WARNING: Graphic Photo - And our lucky day
Post by: John A on July 08, 2018, 08:44:16 AM
Yeah well, first things first very glad you're ok.
And call me old fashioned, but just a little tasteless squeezing off a happy snap of a crash scene where someone died with "hair and eyeballs" all over the road...


I thought the photo was carefully selected to show the shock of the crash without gore. Well done I say.