Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kev m on July 30, 2018, 08:42:00 AM
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Well, looks like that info I heard some months back about Harley asking for sport and dual sport tires from Michelin may have some meat to it. Seems that they might have finally woken up and are going to try and compete in something more than just air-cooled cruisers/tourers. I hope these new bikes are up to the task.
https://www.hotbikeweb.com/harley-davidson-...new-motorcycles
(https://www.hotbikeweb.com/sites/hotbikeweb.com/files/styles/655_1x_/public/images/2018/07/01-harley-davidson-pan-america-adventure.jpg?itok=WOGgHCgZ&fc=50,50)
(https://www.hotbikeweb.com/sites/hotbikeweb.com/files/styles/655_1x_/public/images/2018/07/03-2020-harley-davidson-975cc-streetfighter.jpg?itok=eGx2PO-p&fc=50,50)
(https://www.hotbikeweb.com/sites/hotbikeweb.com/files/styles/655_1x_/public/images/2018/07/04-harley-davidson-custom-model.jpg?itok=4ttQZfZ8&fc=50,50)
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Just when I was getting excited about the Indian FTR 1200, Harley comes along and adds confusion!
Looks like my next bike might be American.
Hope it likes my little Italian V7 it will be parked next to. :cool:
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shoulda just brought back the Buell.. those all look too heavy.
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OMG, those bikes are UGLY. Especially the top two.
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OMG, those bikes are UGLY. Especially the top two.
Ya.....the top two are butt ugly but I'm kinda likin' the bottom one.
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Kudos to Harley for aspiring to enter the market for modern non-cruiser bikes, an uncharted territory for the Moco. The question is, are they able to design and build anything that is not grossly overweight? To date nothing has emerged from Harley's model lineup that is not prohibitively massive. Harley will have to turn over a completely new leaf to make bikes that are competitive in weight with bikes from other constructors of modern motorcycles. Kilo control doesn't appear to be in the Moco's DNA, but let's wait and see what emerges. Meanwhile, they deserve credit for good intentions....
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That top photo must be the new Harley Dirt Glide.
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An attempt to get winning on the flat track against Indian 750.
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OMG, those bikes are UGLY. Especially the top two.
The top for sure. But i don't think the V85, or any other bike in that segment, are lookers. i guess as appliances they'd be ok.
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Wonder what weight class they'll be in 1/2 ton or 3/4?
The BMW GS Adventure with 7.9 gallons of fuel is 580lbs
The KTM 1290 Adventure with 6.08 gallons of fuel is approximately 525lbs
Wonder if the Harley Pan America will get within 250lbs of either?
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That top photo must be the new Harley Dirt Glide.
Good one!
I'm liking the street fighter concept, and that they mention the new bikes will have more tech, hopefully ride modes, TCS other stuff all other makes have had for years. I still think I'm a little more excited about the FTR1200.
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But the ADV bike doesn't have forward controls.
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Interesting but ponderous.
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I like Harleys very much and own two, but (IMO, of course) those bikes are hideous. Yes, weight control would help, but why would anyone buy something in this genre from H-D when proven superior bikes are available elsewhere? I doubt that the target demographic (surely much younger than I) cares a damn where the bikes are "made" (in quotes because lots of H-D pieces are produced offshore).
As noted, I must surely be outside the target demographic . . .
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On the one hand, good for them for stepping outside their comfort zone.
On the other hand, is it just me or does that dualsport look like it's made out of legos?
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On the one hand, good for them for stepping outside their comfort zone.
On the other hand, is it just me or does that dualsport look like it's made out of legos?
First two looks like Lego...actually, more like MegaBloks pieces together...
Especially the first one...StingRay Fish anyone?
The last one looks like an old Buell re-branded HD...with some HD heavy duty feel to it...
Don't get me wrong, I am happy and glad HD is trying to step into other category besides the good old cruiser/bagger territories, but wow...
Let just say design revision required...
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That third one looks great. Reminds me of a Ducati Streetfighter. The first one is no uglier than all the other giant adv bikes out there.
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OMG, those bikes are UGLY. Especially the top two.
You seen a duel sport BMW lately? All duel sport bikes have that type of configuration, as far a I can see tell by looking at picture of them.
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https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/harley-spend-275-million-revive-113725545.html
100 plus new model are being designed and built for the world market.
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30 years late and $300M short IMO
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(https://thumb.ibb.co/hO4tb8/earth.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hO4tb8)
I think the adventure bike was developed for this guy. God that headlight is ugly.
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They gotta do something with all those VROD engines....
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It will be interesting how they market these, hopefully they learned something from Buell. I'll be keeping the Uly for now.
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You forgot a pic of their "LiveWire" electric bike, which appears to be available next year...
(https://thumb.ibb.co/eXun3o/02_2019_harley_davidson_livewire.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eXun3o)
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We have come full circle , no comment on the top two , but the third bike sure resembles the Yamaha Bulldog .
Dusty
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You forgot a pic of their "LiveWire" electric bike, which appears to be available next year...
(https://thumb.ibb.co/eXun3o/02_2019_harley_davidson_livewire.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eXun3o)
as awesome as the tech can be...I am still trying to forget this thing actually exist... :violent1:
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Wonder what weight class they'll be in 1/2 ton or 3/4?
The BMW GS Adventure with 7.9 gallons of fuel is 580lbs
The KTM 1290 Adventure with 6.08 gallons of fuel is approximately 525lbs
Wonder if the Harley Pan America will get within 250lbs of either?
Why do you assume things like this?
The closest relative to these bikes in the Harley line-up (the Street Rod 750) currently weighs in a 516 # wet.
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You forgot a pic of their "LiveWire" electric bike, which appears to be available next year...
(https://thumb.ibb.co/eXun3o/02_2019_harley_davidson_livewire.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eXun3o)
Purposely omitted.
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Regardless of aesthetics (which look mostly like concept renderings), good for Harley doing this.
The first GS clone is definitely looking like a styling exercise that will morph into a real, more moderately styled bike. That one has possibilities. The second bike, I can't get over the huge front tire size. The third looks like it might be pretty cool from a standard sport roadster standpoint (I still like my Griso better).
I was hopeful Polaris, through Victory and the 156 bike, would eventually go for a full model line using the 1100 scout engine in a multitude of chassis. Then through Indian, with the flat track bike as the basis. But in the end, looks like Harley beat them to it. Hope it works out for them!
"Dirt Glide" I love it.
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The top one has a headlight that reminds me of my Kirby vacuum.
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With declining sales in the US, both for HD and for the cruiser market in general, HD is forced to do something different. More than just 'bold new graphics' or a parts bin mod to the tried and true. Sports bike sales are flat. There is growth in the Adventure segment as seen by the fact that every major manufacturer is hitting that one hard. Heck, even Ducati and KTM are offering serious competition to the GS. I wish the Motor Company good luck. What has been posted here appears to be overweight, under suspended and a far departure from their core market. Now, if we do see a big tax on imported motorcycles from Europe and the East HD just might find themselves under pricing the competition enough to offset those shortcomings. Time will tell.
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Why do you assume things like this?
The closest relative to these bikes in the Harley line-up (the Street Rod 750) currently weighs in a 516 # wet.
Ahh yes the KTM 1290 and the BMW 1200 GS are so closely related to a Harley 750 cruiser it like they are all one bike.
What am I assuming? The BMW and the KTM are posted weights. I just wonder if Harley will be able to even get close in weight. I mean everyone knows Harley is sonomous with light weight.
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What am I assuming? The BMW and the KTM are posted weights. I just wonder if Harley will be able to even get close in weight. I mean everyone knows Harley is sonomous with light weight.
You're assuming these bikes are business as usual for Harley and not an attempt at something new.
Fwiw Harley has started to pay attention to things like brakes, suspension, and even weight.
And as I said these bikes appear to be related to the Street series which is already hundreds of pounds lighter than your stated assumption.
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Ya.....the top two are butt ugly but I'm kinda likin' the bottom one.
+1
My thoughts exactly.
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And as I said these bikes appear to be related to the Street series which is already hundreds of pounds lighter than your stated assumption.
I'm not schooled or experienced on the Street engines. Are you saying the motors in these examples are based on those motors and not the 1200 sportster motors? That would be interesting if they went in the middle 750 to 850 range and not the bigger 1200 motors.
Competing with the new V85? Who would of thought Guzzi would be on the cutting edge of a new trend in middle size V Twin ADV bikes??? :bike-037:
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Happy the motor company is using some imagination for a change. I'm so sick of looking at Harley cruisers and look alike cookie cutter bikes. Why the hell does 1/2 the "biker" population have a need to bolt a set of apes on a bike? But that dirt glide could use a little work for sure.
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The top one has a headlight that reminds me of my Kirby vacuum.
I'd rather ride a Kirby vacuum.
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I wonder what the dual sport Pan America 1250cc motor will weight? anybody. They sure are not knocking on KTM's door with that bike.
Is there a market for overweight dual sport HD? I've been looking for weight of this and cannot find it.
KTM 320#s 690 cc single cylinder at 72 ponies vs the Pan America. It isn't apples to apples but HD is building a dual sport that is more Sportster than dual sport. And KTM will eat it lunch on the twisties and how many Harley boys what a dual sport. Now a HD sport bike built right (Eric Buell where are you when they need you) and they will sell them. But forget the off road stuff.
Heck they didn't even raise the fenders off the tires.
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You're assuming these bikes are business as usual for Harley and not an attempt at something new.
Fwiw Harley has started to pay attention to things like brakes, suspension, and even weight.
And as I said these bikes appear to be related to the Street series which is already hundreds of pounds lighter than your stated assumption.
Aren't you assuming these bike are related to the 750 series bikes? Also Hundreds of pounds lighter than what? The 900 or 1000lb bohemoth that usually rolls off the assembly line. Boy that's really be pushing the envelope. If we're lucky they will also have the traditional long throw transmission that would rival a Farmall. Oh wait there i go assuming again.
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Four new bikes with four different swing arm designs....
Not the best economy of scale.
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They gotta do something with all those VROD engines....
I think the VRods are DEAD. These motors are the newer water cooled 500/750 (975/1250???) engines.
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Maybe there is some hope here, I'll check my earlier comment and withhold judgement.
Could there be a Harley Monster lurking ?
(https://www.hotbikeweb.com/sites/hotbikeweb.com/files/styles/655_1x_/public/images/2018/07/04-harley-davidson-custom-model.jpg?itok=4ttQZfZ8&fc=50,50)
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If we're lucky they will also have the traditional long throw transmission that would rival a Farmall. Oh wait there i go assuming again.
THIS comment on a GUZZI forum? Up until the 6 speed CARC and 6 speed V7 transmissions, Guzzi transmissions were pretty agricultural too.
I for one am happy to see the MoCo trying something outside their normal cruiser box. That said, it'll only work if they're dealers do a better job of selling them than they did Buell, the XR1200(X), and even going back to the XLCR.
The "Faithful" won't want these. That is true, but, that is the point. I hope that they do well with them.
The first one is ugly.
The second one isn't bad if it had low pipes. High pipes on a street bike are pointless.
The third one has me interested, as another said, looks sort of like a Ducati Streetfigher. That said, I'm only interested in it if it is under 550#. 520# like my R1200RS would be about right for the 1250, a 975 version should be 460-475#, 500 and 750cc version should be closer 430#. Any heavier, then I'm not really interested.
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That has to be the most Chinese looking ADV bike I've ever seen. Hideous. Almost unimaginably hideous. I christen thee THE PANNED AM.
I'm a little surprised Harley didn't go for something aesthetically that reflects a little more history like, say, the way a Royal Enfield Himalalyan manages to blend some measure of their own current styling into the mix. But I'm not a giant fan of the REH either.
For some reason the 2nd one is reminding me of a more straight ahead Confederate.
The third one reminds me of a Kawasaki on a bad day, maybe a Diavel if I'm feeling generous. But I think Diavels are terrible too.
By contrast, I think their current Fat Bobs are near gorgeous.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/ep0xM8/BF7_DA1_A7_8_CDF_4_AC7_9_F23_CB672490_CE66.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ep0xM8)
As everyone says, however, kudos to them for giving it a shot. More than once have folks on this board and many others declared Harley "finally dying" only to have the company come back stronger. So we'll see.
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1. FUGLY
2. Just generally ugly
3. Hmmmmmmmmm
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The top one has a headlight that reminds me of my Kirby vacuum.
I'd rather ride a Kirby vacuum.
...
.....but the Kirby is designed to only accommodate one dirt bag.
Why’d that take so long?
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THIS comment on a GUZZI forum? Up until the 6 speed CARC and 6 speed V7 transmissions, Guzzi transmissions were pretty agricultural too.
I for one am happy to see the MoCo trying something outside their normal cruiser box. That said, it'll only work if they're dealers do a better job of selling them than they did Buell, the XR1200(X), and even going back to the XLCR.
The "Faithful" won't want these. That is true, but, that is the point. I hope that they do well with them.
The first one is ugly.
The second one isn't bad if it had low pipes. High pipes on a street bike are pointless.
The third one has me interested, as another said, looks sort of like a Ducati Streetfigher. That said, I'm only interested in it if it is under 550#. 520# like my R1200RS would be about right for the 1250, a 975 version should be 460-475#, 500 and 750cc version should be closer 430#. Any heavier, then I'm not really interested.
All the small blocks have long throw transsmission. At least all the once i have ever ridden. The 70's era BB stuff is very agricultural with the Eldorado being king of the heap. Shifts were a very dedicated process. The 850T and T3 were not so involved but certainly not snick up through the gears. The Quota and Griso were quit acceptable. Actully the V50 MX3 and the V7R transmission were both smooth just a very long throw.
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hopefully they learned something from Buell.
Seemingly not as much as Buell learned from the MoCo - whom not to bed down with.
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Good for HD. I am also sick of the cruiser bagger Harley and the image that can go along with it. I like different and that's one reason why I bought my Touring. The bikes shown are different and that alone is appealing to me. Harley has been really improving their products over the last few years and my hat is off to them to take a new approach.
If some of those bikes came out with no name on them many here would be singing a different tune.
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I'm not schooled or experienced on the Street engines. Are you saying the motors in these examples are based on those motors and not the 1200 sportster motors? That would be interesting if they went in the middle 750 to 850 range and not the bigger 1200 motors.
Competing with the new V85? Who would of thought Guzzi would be on the cutting edge of a new trend in middle size V Twin ADV bikes??? :bike-037:
The articles I've read today are implying (probably means they don't know for sure yet) that these motors are related to the Revolution motors (60° water-cooled, unitized) used in the Street line.
They certainly don't appear to share anything with the 45° air-cooled Sportster line.
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Aren't you assuming these bike are related to the 750 series bikes? Also Hundreds of pounds lighter than what? The 900 or 1000lb bohemoth that usually rolls off the assembly line. Boy that's really be pushing the envelope. If we're lucky they will also have the traditional long throw transmission that would rival a Farmall. Oh wait there i go assuming again.
Why are you straw manning this and deliberately being obtuse. The articles published today and common sense would suggest these are related to the other Revolution motors. And YOU suggested they will be 250# too heavy which is baseless since the current Revolution Street Rod is only 518# wet. And that is already hundreds of pounds lower than you are assuming.
It's one thing to speculate, but at least base the speculation on something logical and related.
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I christen thee THE PANNED AM.
LIKE!
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MSRP: Twice anyone else. No, thanks.
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On HD's site:
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/pan-america.html?source_cd=Email_073018_MoreRoads&camp_id=16&CL_ID=2996543152&ext_tracking=34428e255e049f913038c6af2ac08dcb7998487d3e82a74fc6cc42ac0629a0d8 (https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/pan-america.html?source_cd=Email_073018_MoreRoads&camp_id=16&CL_ID=2996543152&ext_tracking=34428e255e049f913038c6af2ac08dcb7998487d3e82a74fc6cc42ac0629a0d8)
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/streetfighter.html (https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/streetfighter.html)
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/custom.html (https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/custom.html)
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/livewire.html (https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/livewire.html)
I'm definitely looking forward to demoing these new models.
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From the HD website:
NEW PRODUCTS
We are planning our most comprehensive lineup of motorcycles. Highlights include:
Extending the company's leadership in heavyweight motorcycles by continuing to develop improved, more technologically-advanced Touring and Cruiser motorcycles that will keep existing Harley-Davidson riders engaged and riding longer.
Introducing a new modular 500cc to 1250cc middleweight platform of motorcycles that spans three distinct product spaces and four displacements, starting with the company;s first Adventure Touring motorcycle, the Harley-Davidson Pan America 1250, a 1250cc Custom model and a 975cc Streetfighter model, all of which are planned to launch beginning in 2020. Additional models to broaden coverage in these product spaces will follow through 2022.
Developing a more accessible, small-displacement (250cc to 500cc) motorcycle for Asia emerging markets through a planned strategic alliance with a manufacturer in Asia. This new product and broader distribution is intended to fuel Harley-Davidson's customer access and growth in India, one of the largest, fastest growing markets in the world, and other Asia markets.
Leading the electric motorcycle market by launching Harley-Davidson's first electric motorcycle, LiveWire, in 2019 -- the first in a broad, no-clutch twist and go portfolio of electric two-wheelers designed to establish the company as the leader in the electrification of the sport. LiveWire will be followed by additional models through 2022 to broaden the portfolio with lighter, smaller and even more accessible product options to inspire new riders with new ways to ride.
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Seems to me the last time HD tried to compete broadly was the mid-1970s, with HD Aermacchis supporting the low end. It'd be great to see them successful, I'd see it as the result of positive change in philosophy. It'd also be nice to see an end to the long era of questioning how much longer their stylistically intransigent product can possibly continue sell in volume.
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reading closely, it looks like Harley is actually coming out with some versatile motorcycles. I've been disappointed every time I've gotten serious about Harleys but these bikes do look serious. After seeing the pictures of ugly bikes and then seeing some of the others, it looks like they might have some nice rides.
My gooodness, some are midmounts!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder what I might do if I see one a I like after bashing them for 50 years?
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The Kirby Dirtglide is horrendous, even by ADV bike standards.
The retro dirt tracker has a cool look to it and it follows the current trend for customs/scrambler/café etc. I'd skip the fat tires.
The "streetfighter" looks like a Buell S1 lightning.
HD has to do something, and I hope it works out. I could see considering the second two.
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--CE0ah5Tn--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/cv7tp8gnnptnwo6vn26l.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--dBcPa-VD--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/hvcu3gfd4hozw9bukoip.jpg)
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First thing I thought of when I saw the Adv bike was the Bimota DB3 Mantra!
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I must be the only one that thinks #3 looks like a bug that walked across my yard today.
The ADV with a better headlight might be a contender. But then again, what do I know. ADV is not my style. BUT if it was, I would compare the specs and price.
I do applaud HD for giving something different a whirl!
JMHO,
Tom
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Why are you guys so happy about HD finally trying to save their collective ass from self imposed decent into irrelevance? If they had any sense they would have been here a decade ago.
Ha, some dude in comments section of motorcycledaily, referring to the adv bike said, "I'm not interested in buying the Pontiac Aztek of motorcycles. "
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(https://thumb.ibb.co/hnUc4T/A341386_E_01_B2_4_D2_D_B023_D3519_D1_E6253.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hnUc4T)
They are going to sell a lot of these. Saving my $$$ for one,great job HD!!
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That top photo must be the new Harley Dirt Glide.
It will look good parked next to my Road Glide!
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Now the video......
https://youtu.be/j2XglhtZTbA
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Why are you straw manning this and deliberately being obtuse. The articles published today and common sense would suggest these are related to the other Revolution motors. And YOU suggested they with be 250# too heavy which is baseless since the current Revolution Street Rod is only 518# wet. And that is already hundreds of pounds later than you are assuming.
It's one thing to speculate, but at least base the speculation on something logical and related.
"Wonder if the Harley Pan America will get within 250lbs of either?" The "either" if you read my post is the current BMW 1200GSA or KTM 1290 Adventure two of the larger adventure bikes currently on the market.
Ah yes I can see how you misconstrue this as speculative and straw manning.
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Arggghhh. Just what we need: a crop of lard arsed, dew ragged, bedazzled ex-cruiser riders, trading in their studded waist-coats for Klim, to come clogging up my dirt roads. Mamma Mia! :sad:
Nick
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Arggghhh. Just what we need: a crop of lard arsed, dew ragged, bedazzled ex-cruiser riders, trading in their studded waist-coats for Klim, to come clogging up my dirt roads. Mamma Mia! :sad:
Nick
Don't worry Nick.. that crowd will be as receptive to the new ones as they were to the Buell.
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I don’t care for them, but then I didn’t care for the original Super Glide, either...
(https://image.ibb.co/gkLiuT/C0_D19725_35_F1_4_C5_F_B617_2_ACE6_C2_AEBD0.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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When men were men, 600 pound Harleys were ridden off road...
(http://www.rickramsey.net/Originallg/DadJumping74ci50.jpg)
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Now the video......
https://youtu.be/j2XglhtZTbA
Minimal knuckledraggers, voice actor sounds human, didn't lower his voice an octave to sound tough....it all started going to hell when they hired Elton John for the Centennial, lol. :thewife: :evil:
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I don�t care for them, but then I didn�t care for the original Super Glide, either...
(https://image.ibb.co/gkLiuT/C0_D19725_35_F1_4_C5_F_B617_2_ACE6_C2_AEBD0.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
The ONLY thing wrong aesthetically with the original superglide was that goofy boattail fender.
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Meh, Harley killed off their one bike that I would actually own. The 2005-2006 Street Rod which was a modified VRod with mid controls and a Porsche derived engine. Didn't sell all that well so Harley killed it off. In fact, it's probably the one bike (besides a mint Pacific Coast) I would give up my Guzzi for. Too bad, the owners of these bikes know what they have and ask a premium for them considering they are now 12 years old at least.
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They gotta do something with all those VROD engines....
I don't think that's the V-ROD engine, it's the water cooled 750 they introduced a few years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_Street
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I don't think that's the V-ROD engine, it's the water cooled 750 they introduced a few years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_Street
The Vrod and Street series motors are all called Revolution models by Harley. They share some basic design architecture (60° V, OHC, Unitized, Water-Cooled), but no actual parts.
They're related similarly as how the Big Twin EVO is related to the Sportster EVO give or take.
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The ONLY thing wrong aesthetically with the original superglide was that goofy boattail fender.
"Boat Tail", but yeah...
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"Boat Tail", but yeah...
Bet you're fun at parties.
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this,
(https://www.hotbikeweb.com/sites/hotbikeweb.com/files/styles/655_1x_/public/images/2018/07/04-harley-davidson-custom-model.jpg?itok=4ttQZfZ8&fc=50,50)
reminds me of this,
(https://thumb.ibb.co/mXM4Jz/yamaha_mt01_2005_11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mXM4Jz)
And that's not a bad thing..
"The MT-01 is a motorcycle made by Yamaha from 2005 to 2012, available in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, India, Japan and parts of North America. But Yamaha Motor Corp. USA declined to import it to the United States, citing a small market for this style of bike"
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The bikes are too dense, too chunky, too organic...similar to the Ducati Diavel.....A motorcycle shouldn't look a like the interior of a WW2 submarine...
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Can someone please explain to me what is the purpose of the "streetfighter" tail pointing up at the heavens? It doesn't seem to relate to fender clearance or suspension travel....
I'll admit I'm a Luddite through & through, but I don't get the attraction.
Style-wise, I'm not taken with any of them, but may they sell millions of them to others....
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(https://thumb.ibb.co/hnUc4T/A341386_E_01_B2_4_D2_D_B023_D3519_D1_E6253.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hnUc4T)
They are going to sell a lot of these. Saving my $$$ for one,great job HD!!
If it said Kawasaki on the badge I suspect folks would be a lot less excited.
It speaks to the brands power, folks no nothing about the bike, other than it doesn't look like the usual from HD. Yet they are ready to sell their first born to get one! Crazy!
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Arggghhh. Just what we need: a crop of lard arsed, dew ragged, bedazzled ex-cruiser riders, trading in their studded waist-coats for Klim, to come clogging up my dirt roads. Mamma Mia! :sad:
Nick
Many fellow road glide owners also ride R1200GS BMWs. We won't be wearing glow in the dark aerostitch either.
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Can someone please explain to me what is the purpose of the "streetfighter" tail pointing up at the heavens? It doesn't seem to relate to fender clearance or suspension travel....
I does relate to suspension travel and mono shock clearance it also shifts the riders weight forward onto the front wheel which helps handing and weight transfer during braking. In similar was the Cafe racer were attempts to replicate and pick up on the style of the race bikes of the time modern bikes are similar, when a dog drags it rear on the ground to scratch its rear end its called scooting and it look stupid. :P
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I think I read somewhere a few months ago that HD had saturated the world market with cruisers so I guess they need to look elsewhere to start making money.
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Good for them. Too late-too heavy, too this, too that? Looks like design ideas and rough prototypes to me.
I'll be happy to give the MoCo a chance to (finally) evolve.
As for the KTM references, the 4 guys I know that bought the latest and greatest from them won't ever purchase again.
WAY too many issues. They all say the same thing-great bikes-when they run.
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If it said Kawasaki on the badge I suspect folks would be a lot less excited.
It speaks to the brands power, folks no nothing about the bike, other than it doesn't look like the usual from HD. Yet they are ready to sell their first born to get one! Crazy!
If it said Kawasaki on the badge I'd expect an additional 20 horsepower ! :evil:
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:shocked: Those just make me want to drive a car... :rolleyes:
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If it said Kawasaki on the badge I'd expect an additional 20 horsepower ! :evil:
Supercharged!
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I like all of those, especially the Pan America. Harley's current stuff is great, too, specifically the Milwaukee Eight-engined motorcycles, but it is nice to see these overhead cam-engined models and Harley going in a few new directions. I go on their demo rides whenever I can, and I definitely want to ride the Pan America and Live Wire when they make it to the demo truck.
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this,
(https://www.hotbikeweb.com/sites/hotbikeweb.com/files/styles/655_1x_/public/images/2018/07/04-harley-davidson-custom-model.jpg?itok=4ttQZfZ8&fc=50,50)
reminds me of this,
(https://thumb.ibb.co/mXM4Jz/yamaha_mt01_2005_11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mXM4Jz)
And that's not a bad thing..
"The MT-01 is a motorcycle made by Yamaha from 2005 to 2012, available in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, India, Japan and parts of North America.
But Yamaha Motor Corp. USA declined to import it to the United States, citing a small market for this style of bike"
The MT-01 was a nice bike but failed to sell. Unless Harley start using light weight modern materials (see KTM on how to do it) their effort will fail too.
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Happy the motor company is using some imagination for a change. I'm so sick of looking at Harley cruisers and look alike cookie cutter bikes. Why the hell does 1/2 the "biker" population have a need to bolt a set of apes on a bike? But that dirt glide could use a little work for sure.
I said to my wife the other day: "see that bike over there? You know what they call those handlebars?" She said: "monkey bars?" I said: "close, those are ape hangers" We both got a good laugh over that one!
I do not know how anyone rides a motorcycle with bars like that, or for that matter with forward controls, but that is just me. These new Harley's whatever they end up looking like were not targeted towards me, that's for sure. I commend HD for these efforts though...but I think they really have an uphill climb.
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Can someone please explain to me what is the purpose of the "streetfighter" tail pointing up at the heavens? It doesn't seem to relate to fender clearance or suspension travel....
Wheelie clearance for wannabe stunters...
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Personally, I don't think it's any uglier than any of the other duel sport bikes, especially the BMW. That being said there are a couple of positives to a harley duel sport. First of all I'll go out on a limb in saying it will be a dependable well designed motorcycle as Harley Davidson motorcycles are just as reliable as anything out there. I've put thousands on totally trouble free miles on them in the last 20
Years and you can bet your butt if you break down in Podunk No Where there will be a harley shop near by. That being said duel sports are not my cup of tea, just too fugley🤮
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You forgot a pic of their "LiveWire" electric bike, which appears to be available next year...
(https://thumb.ibb.co/eXun3o/02_2019_harley_davidson_livewire.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eXun3o)
I test rode the Livewire. I'll own one as soon as it's available.
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That being said there are a couple of positives to a harley duel sport. First of all I'll go out on a limb in saying it will be a dependable well designed motorcycle as Harley Davidson motorcycles are just as relevant as anything out there. I've put thousands on totally trouble free miles on them in the last 20
Years and you can bet your butt if you break down in Podunk No Where there will be a harley shop near by.
I think that's a very relevant point, and could be HD's best hope for market share outside of their traditional domain. European manufacturers have generated a reputation for poor reliability and do not have the same dealer base. Japanese manufacturers have generally good products and dealers but don't address BMW's snob appeal. HD has the money to develop a performance product if (a big if) they they have the will to do so. With that in hand I think their excellent dealer network, likely reliability and non-Japanese snob appeal could make this work out.
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I applaud H-D for making such a bold move.... finally. I do hope they can remain a successful motorcycle manufacturing company, after all they are Americana at its best. I've owned a few and enjoyed each and everyone of then, FXR, FLHTP, 2 R K's and a R G.
I take a test ride on the new models as soon as I can and if it makes me smile I may own it. What I won't do is join the culture, no black t-shirt, no dew rags, no fingerless gloves, etc...
Paul
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I think that's a very relevant point, and could be HD's best hope for market share outside of their traditional domain. European manufacturers have generated a reputation for poor reliability and do not have the same dealer base. Japanese manufacturers have generally good products and dealers but don't address BMW's snob appeal. HD has the money to develop a performance product if (a big if) they they have the will to do so. With that in hand I think their excellent dealer network, likely reliability and non-Japanese snob appeal could make this work out.
I've owned 8-9 BMW's 1st was a new 1972, got about 350,000 mile in total on BMW's. luv the boxer motor and the technology, never been left stranded at road side, always had great dealer support, …. and don't consider myself myself a BMW snob. On the other hand I've owned 2 MG's and they both left me stranded at roadside, the 1200 Sport on several occasions and the V7 III only one so far, as did an H-D(owned 5), and a Yamaha.
Will ride and own anything that makes me smile, that's what motorcycle enthusiasts do!
Paul
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Can someone please explain to me what is the purpose of the "streetfighter" tail pointing up at the heavens? It doesn't seem to relate to fender clearance or suspension travel....
It's a styling exercise, nut'n wrong with that. All manufactures apply different styles to similar bike in a model lineup, it provides shoppers with a more choices. H-D excels in this practice. :wink:
Paul
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I've owned 8-9 BMW's 1st was a new 1972, got about 350,000 mile in total on BMW's. luv the boxer motor and the technology, never been left stranded at road side, always had great dealer support, �. and don't consider myself myself a BMW snob. On the other hand I've owned 2 MG's and they both left me stranded at roadside, the 1200 Sport on several occasions and the V7 III only one so far, as did an H-D(owned 5), and a Yamaha.
I've got about 200,000 miles on BMW twins myself, on two continents and have never been left stranded by mine... the newest of which was a '93. Actually, I've never been stranded by any motorcycle since 1974 but that aside I have been with quite a few other riders on 21st century BMWs that have left their owners in the lurch. One notable instance was a ride on which one late model GS got water in the TPS and was trucked home and another ate its valve gear. Both on the same ride to Corsica from Munich. Another friend had a K1600 engine self immolation, bike totaled and parted out at 60,000 miles and so on. This stuff is not exactly rare.
I don't think I have to lay out KTMs issues, there's a lot of info out there. I have 6 of them in addition to my current BMW, but Ducati and Guzzi don't have a sterling reputation for reliability either...
HD does have a good reliability reputation in the here and now. That reputation is matched only by the Japanese and possibly by Triumph, I think that leaving an opportunity for HD and their well developed dealer network.
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Great point about the HD dealer network. This is the reason I test ride one every time I am shopping for a bike. Some even get to the final two choices, but I still haven’t bought one (the Road Glide Special came close, but was way too heavy). Though the pictured bikes don’t do it for me, HD is finally putting together some motorcycles that address my priorities. I can see myself on one someday...
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<SNIP> I've owned 2 MG's and they both left me stranded at roadside, the 1200 Sport on several occasions and the V7 III only one so far, as did an H-D(owned 5), and a Yamaha.
Paul
Paul - In a blatant thread hijack, what problem stranded you on the V7 III? Owning one I'm interested in troubles I may encounter.
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I applaud H-D for making such a bold move.... finally. I do hope they can remain a successful motorcycle manufacturing company, after all they are Americana at its best. I've owned a few and enjoyed each and everyone of then, FXR, FLHTP, 2 R K's and a R G.
I take a test ride on the new models as soon as I can and if it makes me smile I may own it. What I won't do is join the culture, no black t-shirt, no dew rags, no fingerless gloves, etc...
Paul
I 100% agree Paul on the cultural, I've owned several and never gave them free advertising on my body and the leather vest and chain going to theiwallet was always laughable to me.
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im not reading 4 pages about Harley, but I will say the ADV looks like a catfish and the white one looks cool but I would never ever ever even consider purchasing a bike with these ridiculous forward controls.. and if midmounts are offered I want them installed & included in the purchase price before i'll get on it
otherwise, kudos on pushing the electric into production
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In 50 year cycles, everything old becomes new again... Including HD's wide spectrum, performance focused 2020 product line :grin:
(http://www.adbranch.com/wp-content/uploads/harley-davidson_out_performers_1970.jpg)
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Paul - In a blatant thread hijack, what problem stranded you on the V7 III? Owning one I'm interested in troubles I may encounter.
Fuel filter ruptured in first 1k or so miles.
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From their press release at https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/about-us/hd-news/2018/harley-davidson-accelerates-strategy-to-build-next-generation-of-riders-globally.html (https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/about-us/hd-news/2018/harley-davidson-accelerates-strategy-to-build-next-generation-of-riders-globally.html):
"Developing a more accessible, small-displacement (250cc to 500cc) motorcycle for Asia emerging markets through a planned strategic alliance with a manufacturer in Asia. This new product and broader distribution is intended to fuel Harley-Davidson’s customer access and growth in India, one of the largest, fastest growing markets in the world, and other Asia markets."
It will be interesting to see how the 250cc HD's will turn out!! :undecided:
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I was a Harley hater for most of my life. They didn't make very good motorcycles in the 70's and 80's and the 1%-er thing turned me off. However, far, far too many old men here, on ADVrider and elsewhere continue to think Harley, their riders and their dealers are still the same as they were 30-40 years ago. They're not.
The new Harley cruisers have more power, better brakes, better electronic packages, handle as well and are priced competitively with Japanese, European and other American cruisers.
I've been to at least a dozen Harley dealers in the last ten years. Not once was I on a Harley. Every..single.. time I was greeted by friendly staff who asked me what I rode, if I liked it and they usually complimented my bike. Yeah, some of them were boutiques that I left 3 minutes after walking through the door but they were all friendly and helpful.
The Streetfighter is what I always wanted from Buell but never got; a modern, American Ducati. It has rational steering geometry. It has an engine that isn't 4' long, that weighs 280lbs. It has normal, high quality brakes instead of perimeter rotors. It's not a collection of ideas packaged into a motorcycle. It's a thoroughly designed motorcycle. Extrapolating some power figures from a tuned up 975cc version of the Street 750 gives you something around 100+hp and 80ft/lbs. That's Griso 8 valve territory. Now...I like the Griso but that engine in a bike that was 50-60lbs lighter, with a 4-5" shorter wheelbase would absolutely rock. The Streetfighter might be that bike. I have high hopes for it.
I've owned a dozen Adv and dualsport bikes. The GS is a pig. The KTM is a pig. The Stelvio is way past pig and into whale territory. If you prance around in a hi-viz twatsuit(copyright Pete Roper) and a Schuberth helmet but make fun of a guy on a Harley in a leather vest...well...you might be lacking some self awareness. I'm not a fan of the DirtGlide because it looks as heavy as all the other bikes I think are too heavy to ride where I like to ride. That's a personal thing. Hopefully there will be a lot of buyers out there that don't share my views on it. I think the Custom-Thingy(whatever it's called) looks amazing as a static design theory. I think it would suck to ride. I feel the same way about the Indian Scout. This roll out is the first time in 40-50 years that Harley has introduced a revolutionary(for them) line up of motorcycles spanning the marketplace. Even if I'm not interested in 2 out of the 3 shown so far I still think it is an amazing development and I hope they're successful.
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Paul - In a blatant thread hijack, what problem stranded you on the V7 III? Owning one I'm interested in troubles I may encounter.
OEM fuel filter failed on my V7 III Special at only 1300 miles and 12 days after taking delivery. I was returning to FL from Ct on a buy/fly/ride. The selling dealer in CT, Hamlin Cycles, sent an employee on an overnight 300 mile round trip to fetch me and the bike.
The OEM fule filters are 1/2 plastic and 1/2 metal, the plastic swells and parts from the metal, then you sitting at road side. My recommendation to all V7 owners, all guzzi owners for that matter, is to change to an all metal filter ASAP. It's a know week point and has a high potential for failure. My 1200 Sport had tha same filter but was swapped out before it cased abroblem.
Paul
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It will be interesting to see how the 250cc HD's will turn out!! :undecided:
The 250cc HD's will not be sold in the US, or Europe.
They will likely be a premium bike for their intended market of Asian countries, such as China, India, and most of South East Asia, where people's income is 1/10th or less what it is in the US. 50-125cc bikes are what people typically ride there. A 250 is a premium bike. The RE Bullet 350 is a big bike in India.
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Well, looks like that info I heard some months back about Harley asking for sport and dual sport tires from Michelin may have some meat to it. Seems that they might have finally woken up and are going to try and compete in something more than just air-cooled cruisers/tourers. I hope these new bikes are up to the task.
https://www.hotbikeweb.com/harley-davidson-...new-motorcycles
(https://www.hotbikeweb.com/sites/hotbikeweb.com/files/styles/655_1x_/public/images/2018/07/01-harley-davidson-pan-america-adventure.jpg?itok=WOGgHCgZ&fc=50,50)
(https://www.hotbikeweb.com/sites/hotbikeweb.com/files/styles/655_1x_/public/images/2018/07/03-2020-harley-davidson-975cc-streetfighter.jpg?itok=eGx2PO-p&fc=50,50)
(https://www.hotbikeweb.com/sites/hotbikeweb.com/files/styles/655_1x_/public/images/2018/07/04-harley-davidson-custom-model.jpg?itok=4ttQZfZ8&fc=50,50)
I love all three of these H-D's and I'm thrilled to see H-D doing what they're doing. I find it strange people calling them ugly and such. As if the KLR, any KTM or a BMW GS is anything to look at. All three of these bikes, IMHO, look well suited for their intended purpose and clientele.
I showed someone a picture of a red and black Eldorado last week and they said "man; that thing's ugly!" I said "I think it's beautiful with it's retro styling and modern mechanicals." Then they said, "yea, I can see that". I thought to myself, what a mark. And the guy doesn't even ride an H-D!
Look folks, the motorcycle markets around the world for most anything over an 800cc for the most part are not doing well. Like it or not, H-D 'is' the 'big' motorcycle market. I don't want an H-D at this point but I will certainly continue to cheer them on when they improve their motorcycles and widen their target markets. Though if I could find a nice Dyna Wide Glide in great shape I could be talked into it if the timing was right. Maybe even an old 60's Knucklehead, though I love the look of their Pan Head motor as well.
But, for now, I'll continue to be loving on my Victory CCT. Though I did talk to a dealer with a red and black Eldo today.
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Standard on all of them:
Excess weight
Excess cost
Poor handling.
Can't wait to not buy them lol
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Standard on all of them:
Excess weight
Excess cost
Poor handling.
Can't wait to not buy them lol
Amazing how some are so sure of things that haven't been released yet.
The Street Rod is none of those things, NONE.
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Amazing how some are so sure of things that haven't been released yet.
The Street Rod is none of those things, NONE.
Yes..I'm critical of the style but the bikes may perform very well....Hopefully ,the HD looking like a Ducati Monster will be about the same weight and performance.
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I said to my wife the other day: "see that bike over there? You know what they call those handlebars?" She said: "monkey bars?" I said: "close, those are ape hangers" We both got a good laugh over that one!
I do not know how anyone rides a motorcycle with bars like that, or for that matter with forward controls, but that is just me. These new Harley's whatever they end up looking like were not targeted towards me, that's for sure. I commend HD for these efforts though...but I think they really have an uphill climb.
Have you ever ridden a bike with moderate ape hangers (shoulder height) and forward controls? If not, you should. It is a different riding experience. I personally like to experience something before I pass judgement on it. I find it funny reading these posts about bashing others and then reading what you all put up with to own big block Moto Guzzis.
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Worldwide sales in 2017:242,788 bikes. Even if these three bikes don't sell well, they will still outsell worldwide Guzzi sales of all models.
https://investor.harley-davidson.com/news-releases/news-release-details/harley-davidson-announces-fourth-quarter-full-year-2017-results
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Have you ever ridden a bike with moderate ape hangers (shoulder height) and forward controls? If not, you should. It is a different riding experience. I personally like to experience something before I pass judgement on it. I find it funny reading these posts about bashing others and then reading what you all put up with to own big block Moto Guzzis.
I have rode my buddies Harley with Apes for a good half a day I actually liked it.
then we traded off and I rode his new bagger down the freeway.
both we good running bikes. I would consider a new or new to me Harley as my main ride.
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Amazing how some are so sure of things that haven't been released yet.
The Street Rod is none of those things, NONE.
Yes, 100%.
Sadly for way too many their deeply help opinions are backed only by their extremely shallow experience. (Romans 1:22) Thankfully, there are brands and styles to fit just about any pre conceived notion of what's right.
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The Adv bike looks like it came straight out of a Chinese design studio. I'll very surprised if the production version still has that block front end.
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As a BMW GSA owner, have to say I am liking the Adventure bike. Like the front end. If the wind screen is well sorted that looks like a bike that would be great eating up miles of western US roads.
Looking at the Adv bike, looks like HD is sacrificing some suspension travel to get a low seat height (for the segment). I imagine this will be a more road oriented Adv. bike, meant only for dirt roads when off pavement, which is pretty similar to the BMW and other offerings. Want to go off-road, need a 600 to 700 single or twin weighing below 400 lbs.
And I have been treated well at Harley dealers. One even did diagnostics on my BMW battery.
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Standard on all of them:
Excess weight
Excess cost
Poor handling.
Can't wait to not buy them lol
There is a simple fix for all three of these issues.
Excess weight: one could just buy a scooter
Excess cost: one could buy a used scooter
Poor handling: one could take lessons and learn how to ride.
😂
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Standard on all of them:
Excess weight
Excess cost
Poor handling.
Can't wait to not buy them lol
With an overnight setup job, I'll smoke you on your goose with any '90's Sportster 883 anywhere you'd like to ride.
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With an overnight setup job, I'll smoke you on your goose with any '90's Sportster 883 anywhere you'd like to ride.
I'll be your huckleberry.
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With an overnight setup job, I'll smoke you on your goose with any '90's Sportster 883 anywhere you'd like to ride.
There is a local guy here who could smoke most anybody on his 90's model HD dresser because he was good not because he had a good bike.
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It is interesting reading this subject on various forums and seeing the different reactions.
There appears to be a common theme.
Those that love motorcycling are looking forward to seeing if Harley hits the mark and sells these new creations.
Those that have motorcycle prejudices and want to hate on anything that isn't what they know.
Those that complained that Harley killed off the Vrod because of the great engine, but now that Harley is putting the engine in bikes that will also handle they aren't happy either.
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The biggest concern for HD should be dealer apathy, Buell would most likely still be around if they weren't sold only in HD shops.
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With an overnight setup job, I'll smoke you on your goose with any '90's Sportster 883 anywhere you'd like to ride.
Uh , OK Valentino :evil:
Dusty
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The biggest concern for HD should be dealer apathy, Buell would most likely still be around if they weren't sold only in HD shops.
That was a different time when the arrogant HD sales staff had waiting lists or at least recent memories of them.
Think of the apathy the could strike the heart of a sales staff when literally every bike you can get is presold for a decade or more!
I still blame them, it's foolish to succumb to such sloth, but still it's human.
So today I think there's a lot more motivation to adapt and survive. Or they won't.
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I'll be your huckleberry.
Yeah , me too .
Dusty
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Next we are going to be hearing " yea but my Daddy can whip your Daddy " LMBO,
We are stooping down to Facebook level here😂
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The Adv bike looks like it came straight out of a Chinese design studio. I'll very surprised if the production version still has that block front end.
I suspect sales in China will likely exceed sales in the US. H-D have have been declining in the US but continue to be on the rise in other parts of the world, most notable is in Asia. So if these don't look like bike that you feel would appeal to American not to worry, that's not the primary target consumer. :smiley:
Paul
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Ya.....the top two are butt ugly but I'm kinda likin' the bottom one.
Agree on the bottom one. However...
major competitor will be the Ducati Monster. Can H-D build a 150 hp, sub 500 lb bike that handles?
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I'll be your huckleberry.
You gonna actually make me do it?
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I had commented on how bike #3 looked like a bug.... Well...
After my post I started looking at the types of bike rolling along on my commute. There was quite a few of the bug bikes, a good amount of you sport bikes, and a good amount of ADV bikes. I left the Harley variants out, just because you would expect them.
So...I guess I could see a Harley bug bike. I could see it as being cool at the local drive in bike night. Everyone else has the foreign bike and YOU have the HARLEY!
Now for an odd note. Guzzi is rarely sighted. There are 2 new style V7 series bikes that I see on almost a daily basis on my commute. One is black engine with flat green tank and the other has a red frame and maybe a silver tank. The world is changing :smiley:
Tom
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Agree on the bottom one. However...
major competitor will be the Ducati Monster. Can H-D build a 150 hp, sub 500 lb bike that handles?
Does it have to?!?
I mean, to be competitive in the market place is different from being the top dog.
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Hmmm. I wonder what the inspiration for the third one might have been............ Interesting to see an American company copying the Japanese. Something the Japanese companies have been accused of (quite rightly) for a while now.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/d40RmK/haryey_yam.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d40RmK)
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Hmmm. I wonder what the inspiration for the third one might have been............ Interesting to see an American company copying the Japanese. Something the Japanese companies have been accused of (quite rightly) for a while now.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/d40RmK/haryey_yam.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d40RmK)
Not just accused of, actively attempted for the same reason Harley is arguably doing the same in reverse now. In both cases we're talking about companies fighting for the same customers. Hopefully both companies, despite similar aesthetics, do things their own way with regards to other unique qualities (powertrain, etc.).
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Agree on the bottom one. However...
major competitor will be the Ducati Monster. Can H-D build a 150 hp, sub 500 lb bike that handles?
A Monster 1100 has about 95hp. On the other hand, a KTM 1290 has 177hp. There�s a big window to shoot through. IMHO, if the Streetfighter has Buell XB power figures(100hp & 80ft/lbs) but it�s from a modern engine, in a traditional chassis...it�ll be in the ballpark.
There aren�t many 150hp, sub 500lb bikes.
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You gonna actually make me do it?
Yes
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I've got about 200,000 miles on BMW twins myself, on two continents and have never been left stranded by mine... the newest of which was a '93. Actually, I've never been stranded by any motorcycle since 1974 but that aside I have been with quite a few other riders on 21st century BMWs that have left their owners in the lurch. One notable instance was a ride on which one late model GS got water in the TPS and was trucked home and another ate its valve gear. Both on the same ride to Corsica from Munich. Another friend had a K1600 engine self immolation, bike totaled and parted out at 60,000 miles and so on. This stuff is not exactly rare.
I don't think I have to lay out KTMs issues, there's a lot of info out there. I have 6 of them in addition to my current BMW, but Ducati and Guzzi don't have a sterling reputation for reliability either...
HD does have a good reliability reputation in the here and now. That reputation is matched only by the Japanese and possibly by Triumph, I think that leaving an opportunity for HD and their well developed dealer network.
I wonder how much of our impressions of which make is reliable or not have to do with our own experiences. There's this cognitive psychological area of study called 'heuristics.' Kahnemann and Tversky about 30 years ago pioneered it. Relevance here is, our brains are not mechanistic, they evolved to remember certain things differently. For example, we will remember things that happen recently of course. But we also remember the first event in a series more correctly than we remember middle events in a series. We also remember VIVID events more clearly. Primacy, recency, and vividness are characteristics of events that we remember and shape our actions.
Finally my small point - I got stranded on a BMW oilhead in front of a storm coming home to Massachusetts from Chicago, somewhere between Erie and Buffalo before I knew that part of the world - it seemed like I was stranded somewhere VERY remote. The engine had a major top end failure at only 25k miles with good maintenance from new. N of 1, almost no relation to how another oilhead would perform, nothing scientific about it - NO WAY I'd buy another oilhead. Looked at their parallel (Rotax I think) twins, but never an oilhead. That's not really rational. It's not based on evidence of how likely another oilhead is to fail. I had a Ducati clutch blow up on me and I'll never forget riding home being unable to use the clutch without stalling and being stranded - that was sort of fun as a one-off experience.
Never stranded on a Guzzi other than for a tire mishap, so my own perception of MG reliability is probably better than it should be. Or not. I don't KNOW anything about this without a LOT of systematic data and analysis...how I feel about things is a complicated matter having to do with my particular brain, its experiences and the experiences of the early humans on the savanna. CHEERS!
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The biggest concern for HD should be dealer apathy, Buell would most likely still be around if they weren't sold only in HD shops.
Many dealers refused to carry Buells. Many said it was because the didn't have any mechanics trained on the Buells. And many dealerships refused to pay to send someone to get trained because of the cost and anticipated lack of return on that investment.
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I wonder how much of our impressions of which make is reliable or not have to do with our own experiences. There's this cognitive psychological area of study called 'heuristics.' Kahnemann and Tversky about 30 years ago pioneered it. Relevance here is, our brains are not mechanistic, they evolved to remember certain things differently. For example, we will remember things that happen recently of course. But we also remember the first event in a series more correctly than we remember middle events in a series. We also remember VIVID events more clearly. Primacy, recency, and vividness are characteristics of events that we remember and shape our actions.
I've been riding and hanging out with BMW people for about 30 years, weekly, taking annual or semi-annual rides in Europe with groups of them since the late '90s, and have a good friend who owns and manages a large BMW dealer. I don't have any emotional reaction to BMW reliability and serviceability, or any particular events. I've just watched the bikes slowly, gradually become complex, bug ridden, dealer dependent and irrelevant to my interests. The situation and bikes are wearing and decadent to me, not exciting or vivid in either a negative or positive sense. Meanwhile, HD's reputation for reliability has equally slowly been gaining ground and is now widely understood. I think it'll be a marketable asset in selling bikes other than HD's current cruisers... Its one area where the non-Japanese competition is not that strong.
On a more exciting subject, the mention of Buells in this thread reminded me that I'd really like to have a Ulysses with HB bags before you can no longer find a nice used one. The later ones (about 2008 and newer) seem to be relatively bug free, and if I could be sure the individual bike was dialed in it'd be a good choice to buy, store and ride in Europe, replacing my existing bike there: no valve adjustments, no throttle body synch, 'lifetime' belt drive with no rear drive oil to change and good handling on the passes - better than most other comparable bikes. Buells sold pretty well in Europe and you can find them easily, although prices are about 50% higher than in the US.
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&isSearchRequest=true&makeModelVariant1.m akeId=4200&makeModelVariant1.m odelDescription=ulysses&maxPowerAsArray=PS&minPowerAsArray=PS&scopeId=MB (https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&isSearchRequest=true&makeModelVariant1.makeId=4200&makeModelVariant1.modelDescription=ulysses&maxPowerAsArray=PS&minPowerAsArray=PS&scopeId=MB)
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Good on them for having a go. And for paying homage to the GS , when many manufacturers pay homage to Harley with their cruisers.
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Amazing how some are so sure of things that haven't been released yet.
The Street Rod is none of those things, NONE.
Also amazing is how sure YOU are of things that haven't been released yet.
The Street Rods is also none of the 3 concepts.
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Also amazing is how sure YOU are of things that haven't been released yet.
The Street Rods is also none of the 3 concepts.
I didn't say I was sure. I was making some, perhaps optimistic, predictions but at least I was BASING them on the closest current product to what they are showing - THE STREET ROD... :boxing:
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Does it have to?!?
I mean, to be competitive in the market place is different from being the top dog.
Just sayin...
I got a dollar that says the magazine writers will make the Ducati comparison. Harley will have to offer something that ticks many of the boxes to pique interest in the buying community. IMHO if H-D fields a bike weighing less than 500 pounds, and that handles reasonably well they may have a fighting chance, as long as it's cheaper than a Ducati Monster.
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Just sayin...
I got a dollar that says the magazine writers will make the Ducati comparison. Harley will have to offer something that ticks many of the boxes to pique interest in the buying community. IMHO if H-D fields a bike weighing less than 500 pounds, and that handles reasonably well they may have a fighting chance, as long as it's cheaper than a Ducati Monster.
I generally agree with that but my view is that price, within reason, is not the issue... the issues for many buyers are competitive performance and reliability (yes, in comparison with Ducati etc), good styling and brand status. New high end buyers want an easy life, good performance and widely admired brand status.
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Just sayin...
I got a dollar that says the magazine writers will make the Ducati comparison. Harley will have to offer something that ticks many of the boxes to pique interest in the buying community. IMHO if H-D fields a bike weighing less than 500 pounds, and that handles reasonably well they may have a fighting chance, as long as it's cheaper than a Ducati Monster.
HD could make a case for the market if their Streetfighter is just fun to ride (combination of handling, braking & power/speed)and has the same reliability and low maintenance costs like their current line up. That can be a big selling point and I would take a lower performing bike in that trade off.
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Yes
Hm. You got Loudon, I have Moroso. Summit Point WV or Road Atlanta, or Roebling Road are sorta in the middle. I'd travel to Mid-Ohio for this challenge.
Stake your claim, bring what you like. I can find any old sportster around here for $2500 and have it ready in a week.
If you'd like a point-to-point race, set your points and your calendar and give me 2 weeks to show up.
Game on.
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Hm. You got Loudon, I have Moroso. Summit Point WV or Road Atlanta, or Roebling Road are sorta in the middle. I'd travel to Mid-Ohio for this challenge.
Stake your claim, bring what you like. I can find any old sportster around here for $2500 and have it ready in a week.
If you'd like a point-to-point race, set your points and your calendar and give me 2 weeks to show up.
Game on.
OK. Exit 3 in Brattleboro, VT to exit 14 in Burlington. It’s 155 miles. My stock 2014 California 1400 Touring against any stock 883 from the 90’s. I figure between the fact there�s a 25mph difference in topend and that you�ll have to stop in White River Junction to fill your peanut tank I should be on my second or third beer with all my gear in the chair next to me by the time you arrive. Oh...and any time in November would be good. A 90’s 883 can run heated gear, right?
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I didn't say I was sure. I was making some, perhaps optimistic, predictions but at least I was BASING them on the closest current product to what they are showing - THE STREET ROD... :boxing:
Speculation, prediction, mental masturbation, menstruation who cares. Like Johnny VT and pressure eagle I suggest we settle this like men! Thumb wrestling or a staring contest you choose. Pick your venue. Denny's, Cracker Barrel, Red Robin....
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Time will tell. My personal experience, which is limited to a couple of friends bikes plus a few test rides while new bike shopping has left me unimpressed, which is why my expectations are low for anything that handles well, is light weight and reasonably priced coming from that manufacturer.
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Speculation, prediction, mental masturbation, menstruation who cares. Like Johnny VT and pressure eagle I suggest we settle this like men! Thumb wrestling or a staring contest you choose. Pick your venue. Denny's, Cracker Barrel, Red Robin....
I say we drink till some one pukes. [emoji6]
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I say we drink till some one pukes. [emoji6]
I'll warn you now I've trained 5 to 7 days a week for decades for a challange such as this.
Rules:
1. No light beer
2. No cheap whisky/whiskey
3. Mixed drinks can contain no more than 2 ingredients. Ice not considered an ingredient
4. Good music must be played
5. Pissing in the lawn encouraged
6. If drinking tequila on the rocks we must have keylime pie to accompany it.
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Sounds like an even match!
We'll have to get Jay to organize a smallblock rally!
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If its a smallblock rally it'll have to be here. The V7R no longer has tags or insurance. Its officially been dry docked and forgotten about.
I'm not sure Jay knows about charcuterie, cheeses or low and slow BBQ off the BGE.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/iqvxTz/C1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iqvxTz)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/c2vLgK/C3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c2vLgK)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/jFZroz/C4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jFZroz)
You win.... 🤤🤤🤤
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OK. Exit 3 in Brattleboro, VT to exit 14 in Burlington. It�s 155 miles. My stock 2014 California 1400 Touring against any stock 883 from the 90�s. I figure between the fact there�s a 25mph difference in topend and that you�ll have to stop in White River Junction to fill your peanut tank I should be on my second or third beer with all my gear in the chair next to me by the time you arrive. Oh...and any time in November would be good. A 90�s 883 can run heated gear, right?
I forgot the part where I want to do it at night. A nice brisk Vermont evening right around Thanksgiving is the perfect time.
I promise that I'll have a bowl of warm water ready for you when you arrive. I'll pour it on you so we can separate you from your bike like the kid in A Christmas Story who stuck his tongue on the flagpole. A couple shots of brandy and you'll be right as rain. When your teeth stop chattering I'll follow KevM and Perazzimx14's excellent suggestion and we can have some Vermont sheep cheese, maple infused vodka and a locally raised, grass fed steak. :boozing:
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You win.... 🤤🤤🤤
When charcuterie like this is served everybody wins.
When my buddy BP (the guy who rides at least 10 miles every day for the last 6000 days) gets back from Alaska I have guanchalai that will have been aged 22 weeks to make a nice pasta carbonara :food:.
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When charcuterie like this is served everybody wins.
When my buddy BP (the guy who rides at least 10 miles every day for the last 6000 days) gets back from Alaska I have guanchalai that will have been aged 22 weeks to make a nice pasta carbonara :food:.
Yes, as you know I've spent a little time getting to know Blaine. Good guy!
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I'll warn you now I've trained 5 to 7 days a week for decades for a challange such as this.
Rules:
1. No light beer
2. No cheap whisky/whiskey
3. Mixed drinks can contain no more than 2 ingredients. Ice not considered an ingredient
4. Good music must be played
5. Pissing in the lawn encouraged
6. If drinking tequila on the rocks we must have keylime pie to accompany it.
Maybe Dusty can put this on the program for the next Wild Guzzi Rally.
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Sounds like an even match!
We'll have to get Jay to organize a smallblock rally!
Weekends are filling up quick, but, maybe we can fit something in.
And yes, let's do it at Lance's place. I'm up for some charcuterie!
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Maybe Dusty can put this on the program for the next Wild Guzzi Rally.
Yeah , like any of those East Coast guys are gonna come to Cedar Vale :evil:
Dusty
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I'll warn you now I've trained 5 to 7 days a week for decades for a challange such as this.
Rules:
1. No light beer
2. No cheap whisky/whiskey
3. Mixed drinks can contain no more than 2 ingredients. Ice not considered an ingredient
4. Good music must be played
5. Pissing in the lawn encouraged
6. If drinking tequila on the rocks we must have keylime pie to accompany it.
Sir, I deem you the genius of the board. If you're not a man of wealth and taste- at the very least, you're a scholar and gentleman. :boozing:
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Yeah , like any of those East Coast guys are gonna come to Cedar Vale :evil:
Dusty
True story...
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What he said............... ..
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This thread ain't fun no more with all y'all getting along and not challenging each other to foot races, however the partying sounds interesting:)
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OK. Exit 3 in Brattleboro, VT to exit 14 in Burlington. It�s 155 miles. My stock 2014 California 1400 Touring against any stock 883 from the 90�s. I figure between the fact there�s a 25mph difference in topend and that you�ll have to stop in White River Junction to fill your peanut tank I should be on my second or third beer with all my gear in the chair next to me by the time you arrive. Oh...and any time in November would be good. A 90�s 883 can run heated gear, right?
What part of handling is the weather?
What do you consider stock?
You gonna step up to something further than your back porch?
I really don't think you're taking this seriously.
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This thread ain't fun no more with all y'all getting along and not challenging each other to foot races, however the partying sounds interesting:)
Alright put your dukes up, its go time :boxing:
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What part of handling is the weather?
What do you consider stock?
You gonna step up to something further than your back porch?
I really don't think you're taking this seriously.
You said name the time and place. You said you could set up the suspension on an 883 Sportster overnight to beat any Guzzi. You said I could name my race point to point. Weather most certainly affects the handling of a motorcycle(as will your uncontrollable shivering). It's not my fault you're walking it back. Don't let your crocodile mouth talk you into trouble your hummingbird ass can't handle. I don't think anyone misunderstands what stock means but I'm too lazy to remove my Mistral slip-ons. You can put on a set of slip-ons and rejet. How's that? I was laughing last night at the thought of setting my cruise control at 105mph...so you could see my lights slowly dwindling away in front of you...as your vision blurred from the vibration of an 883 at redline. I'm pretty sure every part of your body in contact with your bike would go to sleep within 10 miles. You might want to get a really thick gel pad to sit on in case you want to have children some day. You're lucky that a Cali 1400 is electronically limited to 125mph.
The following Guzzi's would hand you your ass in this race;
EVERY BIG BLOCK BUILT SINCE 2000
If I still had my 1200 Sport I'd get to Burlington a half hour before you did. With my Cali it'll only be 20 minutes.
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Feel free to make any fork and shock mods you like. Fit it with Ohlins for all I care.
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Alright put your dukes up, its go time :boxing:
Lol, I'm to old for the racing or fighting:(
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Lol, I'm to old for the racing or fighting:(
You're never too old, dumb, skinny, fat or weak to fight on the internet. That's why we all do it...lol.
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Dang! This thread really grew some legs. Whether we like the bikes or not, Harley seems to have gotten our attention...
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Dang! This thread really grew some legs. Whether we like the bikes or not, Harley seems to have gotten our attention...
What's a Harley?
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What's a Harley?
A Harley? Something I like to bait on my Burgman. It's a new sport.
Find a road couch going by and make sure they see that you're on a scooter.
Pull out behind and match their speed.
As soon as they speed up, which North American concepts of manhood require that they do, continue to match their speed.
Stay the same distance behind, regardless, although catching up a bit is acceptable if they slow too much in the corners.
Back off when you can see they're out-riding the bike or their skill.
It's great fun. You can sense the testes shrinking :evil:
Nick