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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: gearman on August 14, 2018, 06:35:43 PM

Title: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: gearman on August 14, 2018, 06:35:43 PM
I am having balance issues and am wondering if a different ride would give me more confidence.The bergs are about the weight as the Guzzi but maybe the cg is lower on the berg.I have to have an automatic tranny.  Ideas?
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: m13 on August 14, 2018, 06:59:10 PM
seriously not trying to seem mean but with balance issues, is any 2 wheeler safe? Having said that a Bergman is a good option.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: gearman on August 14, 2018, 07:05:51 PM
You are not mean. I have been asking myself the same questions. Thats why I built the two trikes,but they really dont float my boat,  Thanks
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: twodogs on August 14, 2018, 07:11:54 PM
Had both, the scooter is better.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Shorty on August 14, 2018, 07:13:25 PM
If you want to ride and not wrench,get the Burgman. Burgman will have better storage, easier mount/dismount,better options for any electronics  you may want.  Guzzi has better handling at speed, but not in the parking lot.  A 400cc  Burgman will run at about the same speed as the Connie. Burgman will have better weather protection.  You can park the Burgman for longer periods of time without clogging up the fuel system.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: John A on August 14, 2018, 07:35:01 PM
Even a old Bergman is a hunnerd years newer than a Connie. My bro in law has a Bergman as well as a Goldwing which he never rides now. I'm impressed at how well that little scooter keeps up and it's easy to ride. It's not for me though, I'm scared to death on it.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: oldbike54 on August 14, 2018, 08:06:42 PM
 Piaggio MP ?

 Dusty
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Guzzi relic on August 14, 2018, 08:40:42 PM
I'm a tech for a multi line dealership including Suzuki. The Burgmans give us very little trouble. But they are a supreme pain to do any repairs to just because of the body work. If you do your own maintenance invest in a shop manual. There is a sequence for removing the plastics and you just can't do it any other way. That said, they ask very little of the owner. I've only seen one engine failure and that was on a 400 with lots of miles, being ridden on the freeway in the heat.
The 400 has a lower seat height and is considerably lighter; two things that might be better for your situation. But the 650 is much more capable on the highway and is the only one to choose for two up if that's in your plans.
As far as c of g is concerned I've never sat on a Convert so I can't compare but if I were you I'd try to find someone with a Burgy that will let you take it for at least a short ride. Or even if you could straddle one off the stand. I'm 5-7, 30" inseam, 150lbs and 59 years old. I find the 650's a bit of a handful at low speeds.

Ken
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: guzzisteve on August 14, 2018, 08:51:26 PM
If you like the motorcycle stance I would check out the Aprilia Mana. Not very heavy and pretty easy to work on.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: pete roper on August 14, 2018, 09:13:06 PM
If you like the motorcycle stance I would check out the Aprilia Mana. Not very heavy and pretty easy to work on.

Actually Steve they're as heavy as buggery! They just don't feel it particularly because the fuel is under your bum. In this case though I wouldn't recommend one for the simple reason their seat height is quite tall and it sounds as if the OP is looking for something low.

Pete
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Tom on August 14, 2018, 09:15:20 PM
The 650 is more capable of a ride than the 400.  Lower cg for both.  Rode both and the 650 has the power edge for long distance and packing a passenger/groceries/camp gear.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Warren Rhen on August 15, 2018, 01:04:22 AM
Well for 14 years now I've always had a scooter in the garage with my motorcycles and actually end up putting more miles on the scoots. I started with a 600 silverwing but like the burgmans I didn't like all the bulk and my piaggio/vespa have been at least as reliable as anything Asian. However with balance issues I'd look at that tri-king or just get a Miata. That would be my choice.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: azccj on August 15, 2018, 03:05:28 AM
I currently own a 2013 Burgman 650 that I bought new in 2014. The bike currently has 20k miles on it and was my daily commuter rain or shine, until I retired a couple of months ago. The only thing I've had to do on the bike were tires, and basic maintenance. It drives just as nice today as the day I drove it out of the dealership. It will do over 100 mph and smoke most cars in acceleration. I installed a large Givi top-box and that along with the large under seat storage, allow it to carry lots of stuff. I've often told folks if I could only own 1 bike it would be the Burgman, especially if I was just going to ride around town. Although I've ridden the Burg long distance on the interstate I find it a bit uncomfortable after about and hour, so I usually ride one of my other bikes when I go long distances. But when I need to run around town the Burg can't be beat.

Something to consider if you decide to get a Burgman and are trying to decide between 400 or 650. The 650 has a CVT that is much like what you'll find in a CVT car. The belt has metal links and is made to last pretty much the life of the scooter and the CVT is control by a computer. The 400 uses the typical scooter CVT rubber belt and weights, that need replacing after so many miles. So the 650 needs less maintenance, unless something fails inside the 650's CVT, at which point the bike nearly needs to be disassemble to remove the CVT to fix it.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: chuck peterson on August 15, 2018, 04:18:30 AM
If your thinking burgman take a look at the Piaggo bv350....16" wheels, goes 90


>(https://thumb.ibb.co/iM59gU/image.png) (https://ibb.co/iM59gU)

(https://thumb.ibb.co/in3UgU/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/in3UgU)

(https://thumb.ibb.co/igyjFp/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/igyjFp)


It begins to make the burgman look a little frumpy w small wheels


(https://thumb.ibb.co/mB0Wvp/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mB0Wvp)

(https://thumb.ibb.co/g8XN1U/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g8XN1U)

(https://thumb.ibb.co/je09gU/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/je09gU)


Definitely my around town go to...I have 23k on a 250 version.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: chuck peterson on August 15, 2018, 04:53:34 AM
Here you go...way overpriced. It'll sit there unsold. Everyone wants a burgman! Lol...

https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/mcy/d/2015-piaggio-bv350/6665036636.html


(https://thumb.ibb.co/fBRA5p/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fBRA5p)
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 15, 2018, 05:52:12 AM
How about a tilting trike?
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: gearman on August 15, 2018, 07:15:22 AM
How about a tilting trike?
Is that an inside joke? :grin:
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: oldbike54 on August 15, 2018, 07:43:22 AM
 Maybe we should clarify the problem . Are you having balance or strength issues ? Maybe you should address whatever problem you are having instead of worrying about what type of motorbike will solve the issue , because no matter what type of 2 wheeler you choose won't really matter until you fix the underlying problem .

 Dusty
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: gearman on August 15, 2018, 09:22:05 AM
Maybe we should clarify the problem . Are you having balance or strength issues ? Maybe you should address whatever problem you are having instead of worrying about what type of motorbike will solve the issue , because no matter what type of 2 wheeler you choose won't really matter until you fix the underlying problem .

 Dusty
You may be right.I have nph and had a shunt put in two years ago. It helped but I never was back to normal.My doc doesn't know whats wrong.The brain is a mystery to medicine for the most part.I AM 71 YO.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: rider33 on August 15, 2018, 09:53:04 AM
a lower COG matters, a lot, but so does absolute weight and as scooters go, Burgman�s tend to be on the heavy side.  You might want to look at the large frame Vespas.  I have the 200cc variant, it tops out at 75MPH and feels positively feathery compared to my V7 (which isn�t really heavy for a bike)
[img width= height= alt=J1dpAz.jpg]https://vgy.me/J1dpAz.jpg[/img]
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: oldbike54 on August 15, 2018, 10:03:43 AM
 Fellas , I had some serious balance issues , it doesn't matter whether it is a MoPed or a Gold Wing , the motorcycle can't solve the problem .

 Sorry Gearman , I know you really want to ride , and it is truly unfortunate that balance problems are preventing you from doing so , but until you get that problem sorted my best advice is stay away from anything that will fall over .

 Dusty
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: John A on August 15, 2018, 10:10:50 AM
What Chuck P. said about the wheel size is why  I don't like the Bergman. the small wheels make it feel scary to me. probly get used to it, but its not for me. There is a lot that can be causing balance problems, maybe there are some adaptive techniques that can help you ride. don't quit but make sure you can do it safely
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: bigbikerrick on August 15, 2018, 10:59:55 AM
Rider 33 , the Vespa and V7 look absolutely beautiful together. The Vespa in black sure looks stunning! :thumb:
Rick.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Lee Bruns on August 15, 2018, 12:22:49 PM
Mechanically the Burgman is excellent. But the seating position was a deal breaker for me. I just cant' do the 'foot forward' seating. Traditional scooter seating works better for me. Vespa!!
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Gliderjohn on August 15, 2018, 12:31:20 PM
A former Guzzi rider bought a 650 Burgman and ended up completing an iron butt on it when he in his upper 60s or so. He thought the seating was great. Each to their own.
GliderJohn
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 15, 2018, 01:01:17 PM
Is that an inside joke? :grin:

Check it out.  http://www.tiltingmotorworks.com/

Also the new Yamaha   https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport-touring/models/niken

Just about any bike can be converted to automatic.


Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Tom on August 15, 2018, 01:48:30 PM
Piaggio MP3 would cost less.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIAGGIO-MP3-500-SPORT-3-WHEEL-2018-MOTORCYCLE-SCOOTER-ABS-GREEN-585-MILES-MINT-/253807930990
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: gearman on August 15, 2018, 04:19:37 PM
Piaggio MP3 would cost less.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIAGGIO-MP3-500-SPORT-3-WHEEL-2018-MOTORCYCLE-SCOOTER-ABS-GREEN-585-MILES-MINT-/253807930990
I test rode this at a dealer. I hated it.It did not feel like a motorcycle to me.I could not get back to the dealer soon enough.But it maybe just be me. Fifty five years of bike riding.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: gearman on August 15, 2018, 04:24:01 PM
a lower COG matters, a lot, but so does absolute weight and as scooters go, Burgman�s tend to be on the heavy side.  You might want to look at the large frame Vespas.  I have the 200cc variant, it tops out at 75MPH and feels positively feathery compared to my V7 (which isn�t really heavy for a bike)
[img width= height= alt=J1dpAz.jpg]https://vgy.me/J1dpAz.jpg[/img]
Both rides are pretty. I have a friend who has a black 150 Vespa like yours. I rode it a few years ago. He tells me that he doesn't feel safe over 55mph.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: not-fishing on August 15, 2018, 04:31:37 PM
Three wheeler

I plan on going sidecar first then adult trike when I have to give up my license.

(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/tricycle-association-slide-show-3-980x400-jpg.314263/)

My biggest problem will be getting a leg over it and not forgetting how wide it is.



Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Tom on August 15, 2018, 04:43:55 PM
I test rode this at a dealer. I hated it.It did not feel like a motorcycle to me.I could not get back to the dealer soon enough.But it maybe just be me. Fifty five years of bike riding.

I like the bigger engine because there is no axle between the front wheels, it's more tractable on uneven surfaces.  I usually hold the throttle open and work the brakes for quicker acceleration.  I didn't expect it to be a motorcycle but then again I have scooters in the fleet too.  Sidecar set-up?
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: gearman on August 15, 2018, 04:54:50 PM
Three wheeler

I plan on going sidecar first then adult trike when I have to give up my license.

(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/tricycle-association-slide-show-3-980x400-jpg.314263/)

My biggest problem will be getting a leg over it and not forgetting how wide it is.
OH! You are supposed to lean to THAT side in a turn? :grin:
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Tom on August 15, 2018, 05:39:19 PM
You do the same with a hack.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: nick949 on August 15, 2018, 08:30:35 PM
Guzzi riding geezer to Newfoundland by Burgman (heading out tomorrow). No, I haven't suddenly become mentally or physically infirm - the Burgman is simply the best and most comfortable two-up long distance tourer in my stable. And yes it rockets up to 100mph + in a blink. I'm oddly excited about it. Especially the return trip which may be the long way round...

Nick

.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/ePXN39/20180815_212548.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ePXN39)
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: gearman on August 15, 2018, 08:36:41 PM
Guzzi riding geezer to Newfoundland by Burgman (heading out tomorrow). No, I haven't suddenly become mentally or physically infirm - the Burgman is simply the best and most comfortable two-up long distance tourer in my stable. And yes it rockets up to 100mph + in a blink. I'm oddly excited about it. Especially the return trip which may be the long way round...

Nick

.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/ePXN39/20180815_212548.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ePXN39)

Beautiful bike :grin:
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: chuck peterson on August 16, 2018, 04:21:26 AM
Guzzi riding geezer to Newfoundland by Burgman (heading out tomorrow). No, I haven't suddenly become mentally or physically infirm - the Burgman is simply the best and most comfortable two-up long distance tourer in my stable. And yes it rockets up to 100mph + in a blink. I'm oddly excited about it. Especially the return trip which may be the long way round...

Nick

.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/ePXN39/20180815_212548.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ePXN39)

l

Y o u  c a n t  t o u r  w i t h  t h a t  d o n t  y o u  k n o w.....!?!? :popcorn:
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: chuck peterson on August 16, 2018, 04:35:06 AM
Just to add another data point in the capable large scooter department....

Yamaha Tmax....sport spec suspension and brakes on these models, and a complete sales flop.

https://westernmass.craigslist.org/mcy/d/2016-yamaha-max-tmax/6672320723.html


(https://thumb.ibb.co/izes39/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/izes39)
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 16, 2018, 05:13:22 AM
Just to add another data point in the capable large scooter department....

Yamaha Tmax....sport spec suspension and brakes on these models, and a complete sales flop.

https://westernmass.craigslist.org/mcy/d/2016-yamaha-max-tmax/6672320723.html


(https://thumb.ibb.co/izes39/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/izes39)



At that price, I can see why it was a sales flop. 
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: nick949 on August 16, 2018, 06:38:06 AM
l

Y o u  c a n t  t o u r  w i t h  t h a t  d o n t  y o u  k n o w.....!?!? :popcorn:

Apparently you can Chuck. Already 120 miles this morning before breakfast at a steady 70 mph. Smooth and comfortable.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: rider33 on August 16, 2018, 07:12:28 AM
... I have a friend who has a black 150 Vespa like yours. I rode it a few years ago. He tells me that he doesn't feel safe over 55mph.

thanks.  Keep in mind the 150�s are the small frame, �very different.  The large frames were introduced about ten years ago as their touring models (grandturismo) and are quite a bit larger.  I actually enjoy passing sports cars on the freeway with it, they drop their frappe-lapa-chinos and get this WTF look.
Then again, I am nuts.

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2007-vespa-granturismo-review

PS- at the moment I’m fortunate to own 5 bikes, the Vespa, a V7, a Road King, a Ural, and a DR650.  All of them have their charms and their place but when it comes to straight-up comfort, the Vespa wins, fast enough to be fun (faster than most cars up to about 50, much to their surprise) yet light and maneuverable.  It also seems to be cut perfectly for my 6’2” frame.  I don’t think I’ll be taking it out to Montana anytime soon but for around the city duty, it’s tops.

Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: kidsmoke on August 16, 2018, 01:07:18 PM
Gearman, I don't know where you're located, but this seems a reasonable option, in Chicago

http://www.motoworkschicago.com/default.asp?page=xPreOwnedInventoryDetail&id=5705644&p=1&s=Year&d=A&t=preowned&fr=xPreOwnedInventory

'09 Burgman 650, $3500 ask


(https://thumb.ibb.co/bJRRFz/image.png) (https://ibb.co/bJRRFz)
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: gearman on August 16, 2018, 06:25:26 PM
I am in New orleans. My son lives in chicago though.This is a nice one with abs and electric mirrors.I was thinking I wanted a white one. Black is pretty though but show the dirt. I found a white one also.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: nick949 on August 16, 2018, 07:03:42 PM
Total mileage for the day: 683 (1100 kms). The Burgman is a wonderful motorcycle....bette r than many actually, and fun and comfortable to ride. The only let down is the minimal fuel tank (15 litres) which gives considerably less than 200 mile range.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/gk1V8K/20180816_135444.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gk1V8K)
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: gearman on August 16, 2018, 07:17:52 PM
Total mileage for the day: 683 (1100 kms). The Burgman is a wonderful motorcycle....bette r than many actually, and fun and comfortable to ride. The only let down is the minimal fuel tank (15 litres) which gives considerably less than 200 mile range.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/gk1V8K/20180816_135444.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gk1V8K)

Can you see with those low mirrors?
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: nick949 on August 16, 2018, 07:30:33 PM
Can you see with those low mirrors?


No problem. My fingertips are visible at the top of the mirror. Everything else is clear rear view.

edit...and for anyone shoter than my 6'2' they would be completely clear rear view
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: inditx on August 16, 2018, 07:57:52 PM
Late to the party but is a CanAm out of the question?
Don’t hate, just asking.

inditx
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 16, 2018, 08:33:05 PM
Total mileage for the day: 683 (1100 kms). The Burgman is a wonderful motorcycle....bette r than many actually, and fun and comfortable to ride. The only let down is the minimal fuel tank (15 litres) which gives considerably less than 200 mile range.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/gk1V8K/20180816_135444.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gk1V8K)


I don't know if I could ride something I couldn't grip with my legs. 
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Tom on August 16, 2018, 10:47:22 PM
Something the wife told me once.  😱😁
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: chuck peterson on August 17, 2018, 04:14:04 AM
Total mileage for the day: 683 (1100 kms). The Burgman is a wonderful motorcycle....bette r than many actually, and fun and comfortable to ride. The only let down is the minimal fuel tank (15 litres) which gives considerably less than 200 mile range.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/gk1V8K/20180816_135444.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gk1V8K)


 :thumb:

Only 683? See what I mean you can't even get a decent 700 mile day in... :popcorn:
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: chuck peterson on August 17, 2018, 05:04:31 AM
Beating a dead horse one more time, here is the Piaggo BV model but in a used 500cc version. Nice and at the right price, too..probably can't do a 700 mile day on this either.... :grin:

https://vermont.craigslist.org/mcy/d/piaggio-bv500/6672857845.html


(https://thumb.ibb.co/mWhz3K/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mWhz3K)


(https://thumb.ibb.co/eiaSOK/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eiaSOK)
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: Rough Edge racing on August 17, 2018, 05:22:45 AM
Fellas , I had some serious balance issues , it doesn't matter whether it is a MoPed or a Gold Wing , the motorcycle can't solve the problem .

 Sorry Gearman , I know you really want to ride , and it is truly unfortunate that balance problems are preventing you from doing so , but until you get that problem sorted my best advice is stay away from anything that will fall over .

 Dusty

  Exactly... The older scooters feel very scary to me , like sitting on a chair rather than feeling part of the machine. Maybe newer scooters are different.......... ........
 I'm in good shape for 71 but I would be fooling myself to think my riding skills haven't deteriorated ever so slightly. I notice slow speed riding on the  limited steering lock Monster are just a bit challenging. On the other hand, riding the 79 Triumph that weighs the same as the Ducati,  It feels like an experienced dance partner at low speeds...Hmmmm If the OP can kick start a bike, an old Brit might be the ticket...And you'll always be busy working on it... :grin:
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: azccj on August 17, 2018, 06:50:55 PM
Total mileage for the day: 683 (1100 kms). The Burgman is a wonderful motorcycle....bette r than many actually, and fun and comfortable to ride. The only let down is the minimal fuel tank (15 litres) which gives considerably less than 200 mile range.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/gk1V8K/20180816_135444.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gk1V8K)

I get 52 mpg with my Burg 650 in the summer time, and about 49 mpg in the winter, here in the Phoenix area. It will get more than 200 miles on a full tank.
Title: Re: Suzuki bergman vs Moto guzzi convert
Post by: bad Chad on August 17, 2018, 09:19:08 PM
I would think pigtail Mp3