Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: wirespokes on September 26, 2018, 11:12:00 AM
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I've got an 85 LM with points ignition and considering options. One of them is using an amplifier since I've got a few on the shelf. I haven't seen any write-ups about this, not even in Guzziology. It seems I'd have to use two amps, but don't want to due to space required. Is it possible to run a single dual-output coil with an ignition amp running a wasted spark ignition?
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I was talking with a mechanic who used to work on old loops back when they were new, he was telling me they sometimes used a double ended coil without a distributor apparently Lost Spark worked quite well in spite of the 270° firing.
I'm not familiar with the points setup on the LeMans but it must be something similar to the California II surely.
With modern Mosfet transistors to amplify the points should be quite simple.
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I think Cliff in AU makes such a thing. Can't be sure but here's info on contact http://www.cajinnovations.com/MyECU/
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Wasted spark on Guzzis is not advisable, ask Pete Roper about it. I think the problem bike had a Lucas Rita ignition, backfired through carb, lost entire bike in ensuing fire.
Brian
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Are you having trouble with the current ignition? What do you hope to gain? Just curious
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Wasted spark on Guzzis is not advisable, ask Pete Roper about it. I think the problem bike had a Lucas Rita ignition, backfired through carb, lost entire bike in ensuing fire.
Brian
Yes I tried to figure out where the opposite cylinder happens to be with 270° of shift but it made my head hurt so I gave up LOL
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I also have an 85 leMans that I put a dyna III ignition in, and am very happy with it. I also have one in my Cal II, and it has been great.
I would rather carry a spare dyna black box and pickup sensor in my tank bag, if leaving on a long trip "just in case" than to dick around with the wretched dual point distributor on those bikes, and trying to get both cylinders properly timed.
Rick.
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I also have an 85 leMans that I put a dyna III ignition in, and am very happy with it. I also have one in my Cal II, and it has been great.
I would rather carry a spare dyna black box and pickup sensor in my tank bag, if leaving on a long trip "just in case" than to dick around with the wretched dual point distributor on those bikes, and trying to get both cylinders properly timed.
Rick.
I use a Dyna on one of my other bikes, not a MG, never had a problem with it. But I'm old school, very comfortable with a points ign. Keep spare points & condenser with you, you won't get stuck.
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Decades ago when I first restored my Eldo, I installed a booster (I think it was marketed by Dyna). It's still on the bike & it has always started right NOW on the first couple cranks. Back in the day loop riders would have the starter cranking & working the throttle like crazy to get them fired up, which is why I opted for the booster.
ronkom
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I think Cliff in AU makes such a thing. Can't be sure but here's info on contact http://www.cajinnovations.com/MyECU/
I run Cliff's programmable ECU in my V7 and it's great, but it's completely different than the ignition amplifier that the orig poster is talking about.
And ... I just built a Velleman transistor ignition unit for my 350cc Wards Riverside/Benelli single https://www.vellemanusa.com/products/view/?id=350487&country=us&lang=enu (https://www.vellemanusa.com/products/view/?id=350487&country=us&lang=enu). It really helped out the running! Took some troubleshooting though. I recommend it if you have the free time to get it set up. I've got several threads running on electronic forum if you want to read up on it https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/modify-velleman-kit-transistor-assisited-ignition-kit-no-k2543.149878/ (https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/modify-velleman-kit-transistor-assisited-ignition-kit-no-k2543.149878/)
Wirespokes, what kind of ignition amplifers do you have "on the shelf?" They are hard to find now.
Joe
Joe
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Ok - here's the story...
A couple years ago the 87 LM snuck into the garage. I never would have invited her in on her looks - I'm kind of a snob that way. Now it's too late and I've fallen in love, but still trying to bring out that inner beauty. Problem is, she's in really nice shape and hated to put her under the knife.
When MGMark decided not to sell his 85LM (made over to look like a 1000S) (I was going to buy it from him), I found another 85 in sad shape to mimic what he'd done. The 85 was parked in 91 with no mods whatsoever, still running points, even the original air box.
The 87 has a Dyna and has been perfectly reliable the 10K I've had it. Some of my airheads also have Dynas, and only one died and left me stranded (four blocks from home) as I recall.
So I'm starting out from scratch with the 85. I've got a couple Dyna ignition amps and some larger ones that may also be Dynas - or something else. Been a while since I've seen them. I'm hoping I don't have to install two amps to make this work. The nice thing about an ignition amp is the points don't wear since the amp carries the load.
Joe - I'd been thinking about the Velleman kits - thanks for the link. I'll check it out.
Ronkom - The loops are a little different in that the distributor actually distributes the spark like cars. I'm trying to figure out how to make a booster work with two separate coils. With the airheads it's simple since there's no distributor and the wasted spark system. I don't think I want to try wasted spark if there's a possibility of torching the bike.
guzzisteve - thanks! I'll check on Cliff and see what he's got.
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Back in the day loop riders would have the starter cranking & working the throttle like crazy to get them fired up, which is why I opted for the booster.
ronkom
This always puzzled me. My '69 Ambo has always fired up without any drama, hot or cold. Still running stock ignition other than a Bosch Blue Coil.
I would rather carry a spare dyna black box and pickup sensor in my tank bag, if leaving on a long trip "just in case" than to dick around with the wretched dual point distributor on those bikes, and trying to get both cylinders properly timed.
I would rather "dick around" with the points than have my Guzzi turn into a 475 cc single with air compressor attached. Been there, done that after the Dyna partially failed on my Le Mans 1000. Fifty miles on one cylinder was no fun...
When I "refurbished" my Convert back in April of '17 I gapped the points, set the timing (no modification of the points plates necessary) and greased the cam of the distributor with a little Bosch Distributor Grease. Checked the point gap and timing just before I went to WNY this year (10k miles later) and it was still exactly where I set it. So, if I only have to fiddle with the point gap and timing once every few years, I see no need for an e.i. system. :grin:
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Isn't the function of the condenser in a points system for this (accumulate charge, dump it when needed) - would the amplifier come before the condenser, there to make the accumulated charge higher? I'm learning, so I may have dumb questions until in sinks-in..
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Have you looked at the HEI(GM coil) or A Ford coil setup with points? It's a similar setup as the put together transistorized setup (I think). I was going to do this setup until I went on another path. Revival sells a really expensive setup(C5?) for loops.
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I must say that I am interested in this: http://www.c5ignitions.com/c5-alive-coil.html
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This always puzzled me. My '69 Ambo has always fired up without any drama, hot or cold. Still running stock ignition other than a Bosch Blue Coil.
I would rather "dick around" with the points than have my Guzzi turn into a 475 cc single with air compressor attached. Been there, done that after the Dyna partially failed on my Le Mans 1000. Fifty miles on one cylinder was no fun...
When I "refurbished" my Convert back in April of '17 I gapped the points, set the timing (no modification of the points plates necessary) and greased the cam of the distributor with a little Bosch Distributor Grease. Checked the point gap and timing just before I went to WNY this year (10k miles later) and it was still exactly where I set it. So, if I only have to fiddle with the point gap and timing once every few years, I see no need for an e.i. system. :grin:
yup, same here.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/h56dP9/mbkyvjht.png) (https://ibb.co/h56dP9)
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That C5 "Alive coil" looks interesting !
I dont really have an issue with the points on the Eldorado, the distributor is easy to get to, and service when needed.
Its the dual point distributor on the tonti bikes that are more of a PITA for me to deal with for me.
Rick.
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Isn't the function of the condenser in a points system for this (accumulate charge, dump it when needed) - would the amplifier come before the condenser, there to make the accumulated charge higher? I'm learning, so I may have dumb questions until in sinks-in..
Groover,
With a transistorized ignition unit the condenser is eliminated. The transistor ignition markedly improves idle performance on my Wards/Benelli 350 single, but I haven't noticed any top end gain. It could be other factors are limiting the top end. With a 1965 single cyl, there could a multitude of top end limits.
The trans unit should make the points last a very long time, since they're carrying only a signal current, instead of the full ignition current. I think the unit should give a stronger ignition spark too, since the transistor is now the "switch" replacing the points in collapsing the elec. field in the coil. The sudden collapse of the field in the coil, is what generates the ignition spark. Since the transistor is a much faster switch than the mechanical points, the field collapse is sharper, giving a greater spark.
Joe
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That C5 "Alive coil" looks interesting !
I dont really have an issue with the points on the Eldorado, the distributor is easy to get to, and service when needed.
Its the dual point distributor on the tonti bikes that are more of a PITA for me to deal with for me.
Rick.
The C5 Alive at first inspection, just appears to be a transistorized ignition unit, a common add-on when points were standard. Look at my earlier post for the Velleman transistor ignition kit. I think the Velleman (and the C5) may be the only transistor ignition kits still sold.
Joe
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I think you might be right about the C5 "Alive Coil", Joe. By the way, I just read through your complete thread on the Velleman Transistor Amp. A year's gap in the thread left out how you eventually configured the system?
Groover - with a Booster (ignition amplifier) the points act only as a switch carrying only a small amount of current. With the un-boosted system, the points carry the full amperage to the coils, and that's what causes their demise - arcing.
So, with an amp, the points only tell the amp when to deliver current to the coil. No capacitor (condenser) needed since its purpose is to eliminate arcing, which will be non existent with the minimal current now needed.
I've just set the points on this 'new' bike and it wasn't difficult. We'll see if I did it right once I try firing it up, but even if I did it wrong, I can't imagine it being a big deal. They're easy to get at, especially with that big honkin airbox removed. So - Charlie and Yogi - you're saying the points don't change in 10K??? If that's normal, I don't see an urgent reason to modify anything right now.
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I think you might be right about the C5 "Alive Coil", Joe. By the way, I just read through your complete thread on the Velleman Transistor Amp. A year's gap in the thread left out how you eventually configured the system?
Spokes,
I can't believe you read through the whole thread on the electronics forum. 8 pages!!!
I built the system just as the Velleman instructions said. I added a metal enclosure, which cause an grounding problem until I fully insulated the unit inside. I had one or two other construction mods to make it more rugged, and changed some resistors to make the unit work for a 6 volt bike. If you get the kit let me know and I'll give you more details.
As for hooking it up, it went just the instructions said. There's a Velleman forum that I searched, it gave me more details to help with construction and bench testing it. Also, there are two (or more) different instruction sheets, probably from different decades (these kits have been sold forever). The different sheets give slightly diff details.
Joe
(https://suzuki88.webcindario.com/fotos/fm17-1g.jpg)
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So - Charlie and Yogi - you're saying the points don't change in 10K??? If that's normal, I don't see an urgent reason to modify anything right now.
Yes, the gap on my (original Marelli) points and ignition timing didn't change at all in 10k miles. New (Facet) condensers, original coils. The o.e Marelli points are higher quality than any others I've looked at. I'm a huge proponent of using Bosch Distributor Grease on the cam. YMMV if you use other brand of points and cam lube.
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I've kinda made peace with the dual point dizzy. My last Tonti was a mid 90's med valve SPIII. Had a Motoplatt ign that failed shortly after I got it. I had a G5 dizzy in the parts bin so stuck that on and never looked back. I adjusted it annually at the same time I did the valve clearances...genera lly with bourbon in the dead of winter.
My method was to not mess with static timing, but simply set the points gap, then time the engine dynamically AT FULL ADVANCE - not idle - there's too much slop at idle. I balanced the carbs at about 4K rpm as well.
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Ok, I understand now. Thanks!
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Isn't the function of the condenser in a points system for this (accumulate charge, dump it when needed) - would the amplifier come before the condenser, there to make the accumulated charge higher? I'm learning, so I may have dumb questions until in sinks-in..
Sort of, some guys maintain its there to prevent the points sparking but I believe its there to resonate with the coil. As the field in the coil collapses it generates a high Voltage spike that charges up the condenser which then discharges back into the coil, it sort of rings back and forth creating a fatter spark (actually many sparks one after another).
Look at the diagram Sign216 posted, it has the condenser as well C1.
I think the coils that don't require a condenser must have something different about the magnetic circuit that eliminates the need.
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Sort of, some guys maintain its there to prevent the points sparking but I believe its there to resonate with the coil. As the field in the coil collapses it generates a high Voltage spike that charges up the condenser which then discharges back into the coil, it sort of rings back and forth creating a fatter spark (actually many sparks one after another).
Look at the diagram Sign216 posted, it has the condenser as well C1.
I think the coils that don't require a condenser must have something different about the magnetic circuit that eliminates the need.
Kiwi,
I heard the same thing; that the condenser limited arcing across the points, and also resonated with the ignition current to produce a better spark.
One old mechanic said that when he was doing tune-ups he had a box of condensers, and would swap them in-out until he found the one that gave the best spark at the plug.
Joe
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I've also heard that about the condenser. Along that same vein, I used to think the plug cap resistance was only for noise suppression. (radios) Ran my airhead with zero resistance plugs, or caps, and it seemed to run fine. Found out later that the resistance is needed for the best spark, but also helps the coil, and in the case of any electronics it helps them too.
There's always a simple explanation for a much more complex situation. Same here.
sign216 - Yep, read the whole thread. Took a good part of the morning. So did you add a 1 ohm resistor to the coil? And the amp worked just fine with the .7 ohm coil?
So you left it 6V and didn't convert to 12V?
When I got this 85 LM some parts were missing - alternator cover, distributor cover and coils particularly. I figured the coils weren't a problem since I've got a bunch of airhead coils stashed, but as it turns out, airhead coils have a different rating. First off, they're six volt (not sure if that's a problem or not), but the big thing is they're either 1.4 or .8 ohms. Factoring in they're 6V being used on a 12V system essentially halves the resistance. So perhaps I could use the 1.4 ohm coils with a big 1ohm resistor. Or perhaps I should watch for some green Dyna Coils.
I've got some green Dynas, but they're dual output coils. I think if I use them, I'd have to ground the unused output. Am I right?
Seems like too much messing around - I'd prefer the right stuff. Funny how such a simple thing can turn so complex.
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FWIW, my points need adjustment every 5-7k, maybe i'm using the wrong grease??!! I replaced the condensers 12K ago when I re-shimmed the distributor but still run the original coils. I put the coils on a relay vs. factory kill switch set-up and have no problems nor voltage drop to coils.
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guzziart - How do the points look when you adjust them? Is it the gap closing up, but the points look fine?
As I recall, six volt coils can be used on a 12 volt system. It seems there was a discussion about this at one time somewhere. Even if there was a difference (6V parts have heavier wire) which everyone figured wasn't the case, that wouldn't be a problem with a 6V coil in a 12V system. And the resistance wouldn't change, it will be 1.4 ohm no matter what.
I'd figured the Guzzi and airhead systems should be similar and take the same coils, but they're not. The airhead, with wasted spark, runs the two coils in series: two 6V coils in series adds up to 12V, two 1.4 ohm coils add up to almost 3 ohms resistance. The Guzzi, on the other hand, runs two independent circuits - one for each cylinder. So the requirements are the same, but now one 12V coil is needed for each side with a resistance of at least 3 ohms (the originals are 3.5 ohms according to the manual).
Does anyone have a set of coils they'd like to sell?
I've found the ignition amps (boosters as Dyna calls them) - Dynas and Accels. The Accels are large things - probably one and a half times larger than the Dyna - but they're made for dual point ignitions. So it's possible I could run the 1.4 ohm coils with the Accel amp. Dynatek still sells the Boosters, but they're not cheap at something like $100.
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FWIW, my points need adjustment every 5-7k, maybe i'm using the wrong grease??!! I replaced the condensers 12K ago when I re-shimmed the distributor but still run the original coils. I put the coils on a relay vs. factory kill switch set-up and have no problems nor voltage drop to coils.
There is a special grease, also look at the cam that the points rubbing block rides on. Rust/dings?
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For a top notch points replacement an old timer taught me to custom radius the points rubbing block so the contour matches the point cam. I even have a set of grinders that you put over the cam and with the points in place turn it and slightly grind the rubbing block.the theory being that the point gap then would not change as it wore in. I have used them once in twenty years so I can't say it makes a difference, I only post it for the curiosity of it. Now if a guy was racing with a points type ignition it would be great!
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Spokes,
I bought a high performance coil, but the manufacturer recommended not using it on a single cylinder bike. The dwell would be too great, leading to coil overheating. I bench tested the coil, it seemed okay, but decided not to go that route and stick to the tiny little 6v original coil. Adding a resistor and all, just to make the high performance coil work, seemed like inviting trouble.
In another vein, when making the bike roadworthy, I added a modern Bosch platinum spark plug. After getting the system ready and kicking it over, no spark. Double checked everything, still no spark. I put the original 50 yr old rusty Marelli plug in, and spark!
It seems the modern Bosch plug was a resistor plug, w an enlarged modern gap. The old system couldn't handle it. The modern plug came gapped at 0.95mm, while the bike’s manual asked for 0.66mm. The extra gap and 5k internal resistor was too much.
Internet shows 30,000 volts per 10mm gap, so;
modern plug 0.95mm = 28,500 v add 5,000 internal resistance for total = 33,500 ohm
original plug 0.66mm = 19,800 v
When I reduced the gap of the fancy Bosch plug it sparked, but I ended up using a non-resistor Champion plug with a projected electrode, to help ignition. The system was designed for a non-resistance plug, so I'm going w that.
Joe
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Joe - so after all that discussion about what coil to use (and that was the main point through all five or six pages) it didn't get used in the end anyway. And the ignition amp kit only got converted from 12V to 6V. :evil:
At least the maintenance interval on the points has been extended. And you learned (me too) a bunch about points ignitions.
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I ran a multi spark CD ignition box triggered by points on a much modified vintage GMC 302 inline 6...But the amplifiers? What exactly is it supposed to do? Some of us 50 years ago had nothing but points ignition in V-8's having 50 cubic cylinders and 11-1 compression at 7000 rpm...If you keep on top of the tune it worked ok...
It was my experience with 750 Ducati's and a Guzzi, the points last a long time and tend to stay in adjustment.. Servicing the distributor on a Tonti frame is easy with the fuel tank pulled off..Sit on a chair with a bright light and take your time. A chance to feel the engine and imagine being an Italian race mechanic..If it's too much trouble, buy a Camary...........Or fit an electronic ignition..
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At least the maintenance interval on the points has been extended. And you learned (me too) a bunch about points ignitions.
Spokes,
Adding the transistorized ignition was to improve running, esp idle, which it did. Maintenance interval is a secondary benefit.
Situation: 1960's Benelli/Wards Riverside 350 single, idles about 1,300 -1,600 rpm, in good tune. On a Riverside forum they said that's normal, but one experienced man said he was able to get his idle down to 800-900 once he fitted a full electronic Powerdynamo system; charging, ignition, everything.
I wanted to keep my bike stock, so adding a transistor assisted ignition was a way to slice that pie. I posted on the electronics forum (in different thread, Wirespokes, of only two pages); https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/ignition-coil-and-idle-speed.153960/ (https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/ignition-coil-and-idle-speed.153960/)
The transistor assisted ignition was a help, bringing idle speed from 1,300 - 1,600 rpm down to a reliable 1,250 - 1,350. That may not seem like much, but a single cyl going at 1,500 it feels very high.
One question, never answered, is why? These bikes have battery + coil ignition, so idle speed shouldn't be stressful (unlike magneto ignition). I never figured it out, but was happy that the transistor assisted ignition improved the performance.
On the performance coils; they are made for multi-cylinder 12v engines, and not suitable for vintage single cyl. 6v bikes. Yea, Wirespokes, I might have been able modify the system for a new performance coil, but I tested the performance coil I bought, and there wasn't any spark improvement over the 50 yr old orig coil. Here's a question: 60-80 yrs ago, when 6v single cylinder bikes were raced, did they use factory coils and ignitions, or did they have performance parts back then for them?
Joe
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There is a special grease, also look at the cam that the points rubbing block rides on. Rust/dings?
Yogi, cam is like new, no sign of any oxidation even at the advance mechanism moving parts (lubed too). When I said I adjust between 5-7K mile intervals, it is because ( if I remember correctly) the gap has diminished a couple thou to 0.012 or 0.013", I think the clearance should something like 0.014-0.017" so, if I'm taking the time to remove to dist cap to check and it is out slightly, I'll readjust. Then spend another half hour to check timing, sync carbs, idle, etc. so I'm good to go for another couple years or 5/7K. And the bike runs remarkably better.
Spokes....To answer your earlier question about points, I don't remember if I had to draw a file across the contacts because of material transfer.
OK, Happy Sunday to All!
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I'm used to points gap changing and mileage going down, at about 3K miles or less. Being able to go 7 to 10K (or more) sounds wonderful to me. I can't imagine how long the points would last with an amplifier.
sign - I'm guessing spark intensity must be pretty poor at low RPMs with that system. 1250 to 1350 seems pretty high for an idle, but then it must sound fairly slow considering the number of exhaust pulses. It would sound slower than my twins idling at 900 RPM.
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The big advantage with an "amplifier" is there is only milli amps going thru the contact points so the surfaces don't burn out. However the ware blocks on the points will still ware down so they must still be checked occasionally they just don't burn out anymore. As an aside about Condensers, if the buildup or mound is on the pos side of the points the condenser is too small, if on the neg side its too big(electrically speaking uf size).
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When I did my LM2 rebuild I looked into the Velleman kit and even bought two and built them up.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/e7UW1z/IMG_0859.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e7UW1z)
I mounted them on a paxelin base but never installed them; firstly, space was a problem, especially with two of them (one for each set of points).
Secondly, insulation; I sprayed electronic lacquer on them but they really needed to be enclosed to keep moisture / rain out, which would have made the end product even larger.
Have to say I've never had a problem with the original points ignition either and once they're timed using correct timing marks on the flywheel, it gets even better. I checked the original timing markings with a timing disc and piston stop, they were all at least 2 degrees out. When I fitted the lightened flywheel, it got stamped with perfect timing marks.
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Steve - good point. It would be difficult finding a place for two big amplifiers.
I've heard that about mis-marked Guzzi flywheels. I probably should verify TDC first, then measure to static and full advance. I'll have to research how many teeth equals X amount of degrees.
garbin - I've never gotten that deeply into condensers. The next question is if there's a mound building up whether the current condenser is malfunctioning. Back in the day I'll bet everyone knew that bit of data about which side buildup was caused by what. Thanks for that!
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Spokes,
The idle still sounds high, but there aren't any orig specs for the right idle speed, and some references say that's within the normal range for a single cyl engine. See Wikipedia "For many single-cylinder motorcycle engines, idle speed is set between 1200 and 1500 rpm. Two-cylinder motorcycle engines are often set around 1000 rpm."
As for the spark, it's actually a strong spark, as long as you keep within the parameters it was designed for, mainly in keeping a closer (0.6mm) plug gap. That plug gap is actually common for older cycles. I've heard that with modern lean tuning for emission, they widened the gap to help the engines run with the lean mixture.
Let me know if you use the transistor assisted ignition units, and how it works out for you.
Joe
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Keeping the iol pressure up is one reason for a higher than expected idle.
Ideally points wear "flat". The mound, or fang, grows as metal is removed from one side of the points and microwelded to the other. As stated above, the lumpy side tells you if the condenser is over or under sarurating. The fang needs to be filed off to get the true gap.
Dwell isn't much of an issue on a single or twin other than that it affects timing. Dwell is necessary to allow the coil time to saturate. Anything from .012 - .025: ought to work. Dwell becomes more important as you move into multi-cylinder engines. If you have a guzzi dizzy that won't time at idle, changing the points gap is one way to dial it in.
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When I did my LM2 rebuild I looked into the Velleman kit and even bought two and built them up.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/e7UW1z/IMG_0859.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e7UW1z)
I mounted them on a paxelin base but never installed them; firstly, space was a problem, especially with two of them (one for each set of points).
Secondly, insulation; I sprayed electronic lacquer on them but they really needed to be enclosed to keep moisture / rain out, which would have made the end product even larger.
Steve,
I was able to enclose my Velleman and mount it on a much smaller bike. Take another look.
And...
Hmm, I think you could use one unit, wired to fire both points. Come'on, you've already got the units assembled.
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How could you fire both coils with one amp if not wasted spark? I'm sure there's a way, but some mods would definitely be in order.
The amp goes between the points and the coils. How would you keep the two circuits separate on a two cylinder engine with dual points and two coils?
It sure seems like two separate amps would be needed.
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The transistor ignition is just a switch, activated by the points. It is easily activated by two points instead of one.
Easy enough to try out.
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True enough - it won't matter, or care, which points activate it. But if wasted spark isn't desirable, how can the output current be directed to coil A first and then to coil B next time?
I'm sure there's a way electronically, but not being an electronics expert I have no idea what's involved.
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True enough - it won't matter, or care, which points activate it. But if wasted spark isn't desirable, how can the output current be directed to coil A first and then to coil B next time?
I'm sure there's a way electronically, but not being an electronics expert I have no idea what's involved.
Consolidating wasted spark into one plug would really plus up the ignition current, but the effort and geometry involved is large. There's a reason Guzzi (and BMW, and who knows who else) use wasted spark.
I respectfully suggest keep the wasted spark, and work on the other areas to improve the ignition current.
Joe
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Wirespokes, did you ever use an amp?
I never did follow up on my Vellemans but have just installed a pair of Gammatronix amps.
They are very small compared to the Vellemans set up.
https://gammatronixltd.com/epages/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe/Products/NewTwinC-12VNEG
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Two years have gone by already - ??? That was QUICK!
After hearing comments that points can last 50K ignition amps dropped in priority. So no, I've done nothing in that dept.
I'm reluctant setting up the Guzzi in wasted spark mode. I've heard it will run, but I've also heard that with the right conditions, a backfire could set the bike on fire. Not something I want to chance.
The price is certainly reasonable, and I like the size. Let us know where and how you mount them. Keep us posted and let us know how it works out - increased power, gas mileage, smoother running, etc.
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I know that the set up is still points without the condensers, and I'm happy sticking with points, mainly because I can't afford the electronic ignition I'd really like (Sachses). I like the idea that these amps improve the spark and as you say, the price is right. A lot of the classic car owners use these amps too, with improved results over the standard (condenser) set up.
I've mounted mine using closed cell doubled sided adhesive foam; the amps come screwed to the alloy backing plate.
(https://i.ibb.co/Yc20KWs/IMG-1393.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yc20KWs)
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I have to wonder if this is part of the reason Moto Guzzi went to twin points (and if the two lobes in its distributor are the same)
Exactly why, of course there is only one lobe on twin point breaker assembly
Far superior to distributor, no rotor button nor cap, precise control over timing and dwell.
Two completely independent ignition systems, left and right.
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When I "refurbished" my Convert back in April of '17 I gapped the points, set the timing (no modification of the points plates necessary) and greased the cam of the distributor with a little Bosch Distributor Grease.
That Bosch grease doesn't seem to be available from any where in the UK.
I've seen Loctite Super Lube widely recommended and is available here, anyone using it?
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That Bosch grease doesn't seem to be available from any where in the UK.
I've seen Loctite Super Lube widely recommended and is available here, anyone using it?
I got vintage distributor lube off of Ebay.
Basically you want a tacky grease that won't melt under high temps or be flung off.
Lubricam is still being made.
Joe