Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rod on September 26, 2018, 04:59:09 PM
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Saw this at the Cape Cod Vintage Motorcycle Show. I heard from the owner what it was. Anyone else know about this?
(https://thumb.ibb.co/dv8Q2U/E1964_CC2_1449_4947_AB72_9_E98226119_CC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dv8Q2U)
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It's a cagiva, can't tell which model though. Companies been around forever. Owned Ducati at one time. Resurrected MV Agusta. If the bike has the 90 degree twin it's a Ducati engine. Brother has two of them. A Gran Canyon, and a dirtbike.
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Erm... 650 Alazzurra. Basically a Ducati Pantah with different bodywork, decals, etc.
https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-italian-motorcycles/cagiva-alazzurra
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As I remember Ducati had a falling out w/Cagiva agreement. Later Cagiva's had Suzuki "L" engines in them and that is when Piaggio bought it. The motor was developed into the Shiver & Dorso engines years later.
I have no idea who owns Cagiva now.
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Piaggio has never owned Cagiva, although they came very close to buying them once. Piaggio's plan was to buy Cagiva
and use Suzuki engines plus Cagiva designed frames to create an instant presence in the midsize-large motorcycle market. The deal fell through due to flaky Cagiva financials and the Suzuki engined Piaggio prototypes became Cagivas (e.g. the Raptor), except for the 600 cc inline four sport bike which was never produced. (see correction below!) Piaggio later bought Aprilia/Guzzi instead of Cagiva. I'm sure the subsequent Piaggio/Aprilia V-twins reflected the Cagiva/Suzuki experience to some degree but they were developed in Pontedera... I happen to know a guy who worked on the Piaggio test bench, helping developing them.
The Cagiva company history is remarkable. In a nutshell it goes like this...
Cagiva (a company originally unrelated to motorcycling) bought Aermacchi from Harley Davidson in around 1978, and was successful in reviving it in the Italian domestic market That allowed them to buy Ducati at a fire sale price from the Italian Government, in a stepwise deal finalized in around 1985. As part of that buy out they initially changed the Ducati Pantah into a mass-market bike to align with their existing line, grafting their version of early 80s Honda Interceptor bodywork (compare details of construction and its obvious) onto the Ducati frame. The resulting 1985 Cagiva Alazzurra was not a particularly good bike but not an awful bike... much like the next step, the 1986 Paso which came along after they'd hired Massimo Tamburini of Bimota fame. The Paso was originally intended to be a Cagiva too, but by then the'd figured out the Ducati name had value. In '89 they hired Miguel Galuzzi (now with Piaggio) and between him and Tamburini they came up with the '91 belt SS, the '93 Monster and the '94 916. Holy cow Cagiva did a lot between 1985 and 1995...
Meanwhile the Cagiva named lived on through the 90s in markets where it was established, on bikes like the 125 Mito, the Elephant, the Gran Canyon, Suzuki engined Navigator, Raptors and on 500GP racers. Unfortunately by late '96 they'd run the company into the ground financially with all that R&D, racing etc and to raise cash they sold the Ducati name and plant to Texas Pacific Group. They'd bought the MV Agusta name from Agusta helicopters and with the cash received they developed the '98-on nuovo-MV line that is really a Cagiva product and nothing to do with Agusta. More financial troubles followed, ownership by Proton of Malaysia, Harley Davidson (again) and then part ownership by Mercedes Benz... but in the end after all those wild rides Cagiva/MV has ended up more-or-less independent, run by the original owner's son, and in the same lake shore Aermacchi plant where they started.
I don't think there's ever been a more creative motorcycle company than Cagiva under Claudio Castiglioni, with Tamburini, Galuzzi, Massimo Bordi and yes, even Pierre Terblanche designing the hardware.
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Saw this at the Cape Cod Vintage Motorcycle Show. I heard from the owner what it was. Anyone else know about this?
(https://thumb.ibb.co/dv8Q2U/E1964_CC2_1449_4947_AB72_9_E98226119_CC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dv8Q2U)
Allazurra 650. Almost bought a used one when the shop sold my Guzzi V65SP for me. But didn't...
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So much for my memory, thanks to Tusayan for the history.
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My memory of Piaggio and Cagiva's short flirtation wasn't perfect either... I also got it slightly wrong! A little more time for memory to reappear says Cagiva designed, built and sold the Suzuki engined Raptors and Navigator after selling Ducati in late 1996 - they were essentially re-takes on the Monster and Gran Canyon, designed by the same people (who had stayed with Cagiva), but using Suzuki instead of Ducati engines. Then in about 2002, Piaggio came on the scene and wanted to buy Cagiva and replace the Suzuki engines with new Piaggio developed V-twin engines, calling the resulting bikes Gileras. The Piaggio engines were designed to slot directly into the bikes, same mounts as the Suzukis. Here is a photo of a Cagiva Raptor with the Suzuki engine replaced by a Piaggio engine...
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2002/02/022802top.jpg)
Piaggio also had the idea that the Gilera range could be wider if they maintained the Cagiva/Suzuki connection for a four cylinder 600 cc bike that would have utilized a GSXR engine
(https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Gilera-600SS.jpg?d=1&i=1)
Then the deal for Piaggio to buy Cagiva fell through and instead they bought Aprilia in 2004. This was the same basic business concept, but implemented by buying a different company! Instead of replacing Cagiva's Suzuki engines they replaced the Aprila range's traditional Rotax engines with Piaggio engines. The idea to use the Gilera name was dropped and they kept the Aprilia name. Guzzi got swept up in the deal, more or less by happenstance. Guzzi Content! :laugh:
Hope I got it mostly correct this time :grin:
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I've never seen one in that color. Ally's are great bikes, I enjoyed the heck out of mine back in the day,and would probably buy another if a nice one came along at the right price.
They also make great club racers.
Go to ducpower.com for everything Alazzurra.
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Guzzi Content
(https://thumb.ibb.co/g3Wegp/CW1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g3Wegp)
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The Lario on that Cycle World cover belonged to a guy I knew then, if I recall correctly. The cover shot was done by a photographer completely independent of the test bikes and my friends bike was used for the cover shot but not in the test. Or something like that... Thirty one years ago... (holy cow)
PS Dug out my copy... :grin: Chris Wimpey took the cover photo on the west coast using bikes borrowed locally, the comparison test was in New England on different bikes. The barn in the cover shot was used to give the photo a New England vibe.
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Boy, I came to the right place.
The owner commented that if you can find a Cagiva they are cheap, I guess because of the branding.
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A friend of mine recently told me of another friend who had bought what he was calling a Ducati Elefant. I said, "Huh? Don't you mean a Cagiva Elefant?" "What the heck is a Cagiva?", he replied. I don't know the history of relations between the two companies in detail... only that Cagiva owned Ducati for a time. During my years of ownership of a '95 Ducati 900SSCR, I had counted the number of the cute little Cagiva Elephants I found in various places on the bike. A number I have since forgotten. I knew that the Cagiva was using essentially the same two-valve engine as my SS, but did not know that they actually tossed a badge-engineered machine out there like a Big 3 U.S. automaker at the same time and called it a Ducati. U.S. market machine, perhaps?
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A friend of mine recently told me of another friend who had bought what he was calling a Ducati Elefant. I said, "Huh? Don't you mean a Cagiva Elefant?" "What the heck is a Cagiva?", he replied. I don't know the history of relations between the two companies in detail... only that Cagiva owned Ducati for a time. During my years of ownership of a '95 Ducati 900SSCR, I had counted the number of the cute little Cagiva Elephants I found in various places on the bike. A number I have since forgotten. I knew that the Cagiva was using essentially the same two-valve engine as my SS, but did not know that they actually tossed a badge-engineered machine out there like a Big 3 U.S. automaker at the same time and called it a Ducati. U.S. market machine, perhaps?
Probably a Ducati E900, commonly referred to as an "Elefant".
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I knew that the Cagiva was using essentially the same two-valve engine as my SS, but did not know that they actually tossed a badge-engineered machine out there like a Big 3 U.S. automaker at the same time and called it a Ducati. U.S. market machine, perhaps?
Exactly, the later Elephants were sold as Ducatis in the US because the Cagiva name had little US brand recognition. They were Cagivas elsewhere.
During the period in which Cagiva owned Ducati there was a lot of cross pollenization, for example many Ducati Monsters and some 916s were assembled at Varese, the Cagiva plant. So for the bikes built at that time the name on the tank doesn't have a huge significance, they were mostly designed but the same people using components from the same vendors.
Cagiva also bought and owned Husqvarna for 20 years starting in 1987, and those were designed and built in Varese too.
The white Cagiva elephant is a symbol of good luck in Italy, basically the opposite of its US meaning.
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Cagiva also ended up owning Moto Morini.
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Cagiva also ended up owning Moto Morini.
Unfortunately. :sad:
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Yes, I would agree.
I was at the Morini factory in in 1986 and 1987 (two of Herm Baver's three Herdan European tours). In 1986, the Morini factory was a exiting and entertaining experience. In 1987 (after the change), not so much. It felt (to me) that the factory personnel knew it was the end of an era.
And I can't say a lot for the Cagiva/Morini hybrids that appeared later. But there I saw no evidence of them at the Bologna Morini factory. Maybe they came out of Varese.
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Cagiva also bought out Husqvarna in the mid 80's. I bought a WMX 125 mxer back then. It was basicly a highly tuned 125 from the factory that needed race gas to survive. WMX 125s and 250s were grenading all over the country until they were detuned just a bit. Even after a bit of detuning, it was the lightest, fastest, best looking 125 I ever owned.
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Yes, I would agree.
I was at the Morini factory in in 1986 and 1987 (two of Herm Baver's three Herdan European tours). In 1986, the Morini factory was a exiting and entertaining experience. In 1987 (after the change), not so much. It felt (to me) that the factory personnel knew it was the end of an era.
And I can't say a lot for the Cagiva/Morini hybrids that appeared later. But there I saw no evidence of them at the Bologna Morini factory. Maybe they came out of Varese.
When I read that Cagiva had bought Morini, I knew that was the end of them, sooner or later. That's why I bought my (new, leftover) '86 K2.
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There was a Cagiva Gran Canyon at a small gathering I attended last weekend. A bit surprising how few attendees knew what it was.
Dusty
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Actually cagiva was Giovanni Castiglioni's passion, absolutely amazing somebody can have that much influence in the motorcycle world.
without him , the current market would look pretty different.
we would have no MV agusta, no ducati, probably no huskvarna.
He saved morini, the problem in the late seventies and early eighties everybody liked morini's but nobody actually bought one for list price.
in europe , for the price of new morini 350 sport you could buy a brand new honda 750 four.
Pretty amazing they survived that long in the first place.
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I seem to remember some of the money came from the Harley Davidson deal, the Castiglioni brothers sold a factory to Harley for a massively inflated price then bought it back for a pittance when Harley gave up on lightweight bikes? At least thats the story they tell in Europe :grin:
A Friend had a Cagiva Elefant he kept getting rebuilt in an accelerating cycle of higher and higher state of tune and shorter and shorter time between failures.
You were limited to a 2 valve head by a frame member??????
In the UK they came as either a 750 or 900 and there was a special Lucky Strike paint job which looked very Paris-Dakar.
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A Friend had a Cagiva Elefant he kept getting rebuilt in an accelerating cycle of higher and higher state of tune and shorter and shorter time between failures.
You were limited to a 2 valve head by a frame member??????
In the UK they came as either a 750 or 900 and there was a special Lucky Strike paint job which looked very Paris-Dakar.
In the US we got a 650 first, then 750. But the 900 was badged as a Ducati (E900). This was my 2014/2015 "Winter project":
(https://thumb.ibb.co/fLztBp/Elefant_03082015_001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fLztBp)
I bought a spare seat, had it cut down 1.5" and reupholstered, dialed out all of the preload in the suspension, then I could finally reach the ground! Sold it to a collector in PA.
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I seem to remember some of the money came from the Harley Davidson deal, the Castiglioni brothers sold a factory to Harley for a massively inflated price then bought it back for a pittance when Harley gave up on lightweight bikes? At least thats the story they tell in Europe :grin:
They did it two or three times, first with Proton (Euro 70 million versus Euro 1), then with HD (Euro 115 million versus Euro 1) and then with Daimler Benz and their minority stake in the company. The Castiglionis have played the glamour card like an attractive woman moving through multiple marriages and divorces. :grin: Each successive purchaser figured they could tame the Italians and still profit from their creativity... and had the predictable lack of success in doing either :grin: At the moment they have a Russian individual investor, who knows how that will work out.
Through this deal making stuff it was father and son, the brother/uncle stepped out of the motorcycle business at some point and the father has now passed on, leaving the son to run the motorcycle business. The brother carried on the less glamorous parts of the family business, like this: http://www.franzisella.it/en
The Castiglionis continue to attract their fair share of drama, even today: http://www.britishdealernews.co.uk/general-news/castiglioni-family-face-criminal-sanctions
Compared with the Ducati of today and their deadly boring 2018 ownership by VW, Cagiva/MV as a company remains pretty entertaining!
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Duc E900
(https://thumb.ibb.co/jTLtUK/IMG_20170318_113050492_HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jTLtUK)
In the US we got a 650 first, then 750. But the 900 was badged as a Ducati (E900). This was my 2014/2015 "Winter project":
(https://thumb.ibb.co/fLztBp/Elefant_03082015_001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fLztBp)
I bought a spare seat, had it cut down 1.5" and reupholstered, dialed out all of the preload in the suspension, then I could finally reach the ground! Sold it to a collector in PA.