Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kev m on October 01, 2018, 01:25:12 PM
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Not bad...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181001/e725d2e0caea41f2f215d40f03c2bf6f.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181001/25e3f32113e369e2e8c52b2519434a77.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181001/3b9e2241758d9b6f14393ce55ded6b71.jpg)
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https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/indian/flat-track-race/ftr1200/
https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/ftr1200-s/specs/
Horsepower 120 HP (89.5 kW)
Peak Torque 85 ft-lb (115.2 Nm)
Peak Torque RPM 6,000 rpm
Transmission/Final Drive 2.882 : 1
Transmission/Primary Drive Gear Drive Wet Clutch
Fuel Capacity 3.4 gal (12.9 L)
Ground Clearance 7.2 in (183 mm)
Lean Angle 43°
Overall Height 51.1 in (1297 mm)
Overall Length 90 in (2,286 mm)
Overall Width 33.5 in (850 mm)
Rake/Trail 26.3° / 5.1 in (130 mm)
Seat Height 33.1 in (841 mm)
Weight (Empty Tank / Full of Fuel) 497 lbs / 518 lbs (226 kg / 235 kg)
Wheelbase 60 in (1,524 mm)
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If I was looking for a new bike I would want one of those! I see a aftermarket license plate bracket kit in the near future... Heck, I could make one.
Larry
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EVERYBODY is gonna buy one...
When ya walk outta Larry’s burger pit after a couple libations, you’re gonna have a hard time finding yours amongst all the others!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Makes me like the muffler on 8V Griso. The dash looks like a Motus dash.
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120 HP and 520 LB
Made in USA. Looks right. A cafe flyscreen would just do it. Looks like midmounts to rear sets, not bad and certainly a change for Indian.
150 rear tire? Must be a sharp handling bike.
So are they unveiling the bike at all the dealerships or just to the media?
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Good lord. Polaris has never made a pipe that looked good-ever.
The rest of the bike-looks like a blast.
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Yep, that muffler would have to go! Kind of like putting vertical truck exhaust stacks on a Corvette. Good looker otherwise, just no balance with that gross muffler.
GliderJohn
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It's similar "looking" to the ones on the flat track bikes.
That looks like one hell of a fun ride!
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Nice looking bike. I hope they sell. :thumb:
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Welp- while it may be a great performing bike, and a fun bike to ride, based on its looks I would say a swing and a miss. Too bad. Close but no banana. It looks like it is a mashup of five different stylists who were not communicating. Yuk. Y'all can relax, I couldn't buy one even if I wanted and I know that I am not the target consumer. The target consumer will undoubtedly like the looks/styling. Good on Indian for putting out this bike, but the unfinished cartoonish faddish look has no sense of timeless style that will endure for long. It does not look like Indians flat tracker and that is disappointing. I may eat those words in time, if I live long enough. For those that like this look, I hope you really enjoy ripping around on this bike. Should be fun!
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Well, the front 1/2 looks good !
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as I copy ans pasted what I said in the other page:
I quite liked the prototype with its exhaust and its nimble design feel...
the actual bike looks like a pig to me...just like how the Ducati scrambler 1100 is...
The feel is all wrong...to me anyway... :violent1:
Again it's my personal opinion :P
it is no longer a "flat tracker" but rather a street bike trying to look like a dirt bike...
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I think they nailed the styling. I'd would like to see a cafe version.
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Cool beans overall...but it looks similar to a Ducati 1200 Monster!! (IMHO) :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
(https://thumb.ibb.co/diG2de/Screen_Shot_2018_10_01_at_2_08_14_PM.png) (https://ibb.co/diG2de)
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Well, the front 1/2 looks good !
I must wholehartedly agree! Looks like they ran out of ideas after the seat. Way fugly mudguard or is that a bumper? :evil: My$.02
Paul B :boozing:
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Seat is way too short. It and the muffler end and then there is this huge gap with tire and a mini-me mud guard. They need to take the seat back with the muffler.
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I wouldn’t trade my Griso for one, but I must say this is the most exciting American bike I have seen in a long time. Take note HD. Polaris just unwrapped your lunch.
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An odd look about it in the photos.
Not Beautiful Strange as in the GRiSO, just odd.
But I bet it looks and flows better visually in person..hope so.
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I think they nailed the styling. I'd would like to see a cafe version.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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The swingarm is longer than the "custom", likely to make the anti-wheelie not work so hard.
Interesting it is in a pretty mild state of tune, too.
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Kick Ass! Impressive effort! Love it!
:bike-037:
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I like it, a LOT!
As others have said, the muffler is fugly though. Hopefully, the aftermarket comes out with a slimmer looking slip-on that isn't too loud.
This is definitely a shot over the Harley Street Fighter's bow.
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As mentioned in various posts....
The Good:
120 HP and 520 LB Made in USA....
Good on Indian for putting out this bike....
Well, the front 1/2 looks good !....
but I must say this is the most exciting American bike I have seen in a long time. Take note HD. Polaris just unwrapped your lunch....
The Bad :
Those gold forks (my contribution)
The Ugly:
Makes me like the muffler on 8V Griso...
Good lord. Polaris has never made a pipe that looked good-ever...
Kind of like putting vertical truck exhaust stacks on a Corvette...
Way fugly mudguard or is that a bumper?....
Will I go down to Indian and look at it?.....sure. In the hopes that it will look better in the flesh than the pics Kev posted here. And the only way it has a chance of coming home with me at that time is if Indian has an aftermarket exhaust available right then and there to pull the OEM off and replace it with.
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Can you purchase just the left side of the bike?
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Two models-the less expensive has no gold forks.
Indian is offering an optional pipe-I think by next spring there will be more choices!
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ANYTHING but another funky ass "cruiser" I'm sick of that styling! If I see leather fringe just one more time I swear, I'll friggin' HURL!!
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I am really happy to see it announced and can't wait to see one in person.
Only real issue I have with it is the 3.4 gallon tank and they thought it needed cruise control. I like the CC but I always try to turn everything into a sport touring bike, and need a bigger tank.
The performance sounds like top shelf. I would have been happy with the Scout 1100 motor and gearbox (which I thought was excellent).
Way to go Indian!
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Very cool bike and Akrapovic will sell something titanium to replace the ugly muffler.
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I am really happy to see it announced and can't wait to see one in person.
Only real issue I have with it is the 3.4 gallon tank and they thought it needed cruise control. I like the CC but I always try to turn everything into a sport touring bike, and need a bigger tank.
The performance sounds like top shelf. I would have been happy with the Scout 1100 motor and gearbox (which I thought was excellent).
Way to go Indian!
I like how the mufflers look on the Indian.....not that I would compare it to any Moto Guzzi :grin:
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The Bad :
Those gold forks (my contribution)
They're an upgrade, on the "S" model, so you can have black and save money, too...
(I'll take the "S" model and gold forks!)
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https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2018/october/indian-2019-ftr1200-ftr1200s (https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2018/october/indian-2019-ftr1200-ftr1200s)
Up front there�s a pair of 43mm upside-down forks, fully adjustable on the �S� version, while an offset monoshock deals with the rear suspension. Again, the �S� gets better kit, with a piggyback reservoir and a full range of adjustments.
They took a page from Ducati's book. Like Ducati models that offer an "S" version, there is an FTR1200S with fully adjustable suspension.
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I will say it's Ducati expensive and perhaps a little higher. *Guzzi Content*
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5.9-inches of travel, front and rear! Having that extra travel sure is nice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=84&v=sEgyZy2c21A
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I will say it's Ducati expensive and perhaps a little higher. *Guzzi Content*
The base model seems to be coming in very close to the V85's predicted price range.
And though I'd likely still take the V85 (or a road going variant) for a number of reasons I bet a lot of people would prefer the FTR for the additional performance.
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Hmph. 19 on the front, 18 on the rear and 60 inch wheelbase. I would be curious to ride one to see how it handles but wouldn't learn much in an around the block test ride.
That pipe would have to go.
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I don't know why so many are bitching about the exhaust.
But hey look at this screenshot from the website, maybe that explains it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181002/3bdb44b6e220528427e27f58c9917717.jpg)
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Hmph. 19 on the front, 18 on the rear and 60 inch wheelbase. I would be curious to ride one to see how it handles but wouldn't learn much in an around the block test ride.
That pipe would have to go.
I like the shotgun exhaust.
I am curious about the suspension, wheels and tires. 150 rear tire is narrow but the wheelbase is long. Maybe long suspension travel gives a good ride but what does it do to handling? It weighs a little more than I would have guessed.
And it costs a heckuva a lot more than I would ever consider at $15k.
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If our local dealer ever has one on the floor (I expect they will be flying off the floor) I will throw a leg over it. I'm guessing with a 33" seat height I may not be that comfortable, but I'm willing to try. The logical part of me knows my V7 has all the power I need, but since when are motorcycles logical?
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If our local dealer ever has one on the floor (I expect they will be flying off the floor) I will throw a leg over it. I'm guessing with a 33" seat height I may not be that comfortable, but I'm willing to try. The logical part of me knows my V7 has all the power I need, but since when are motorcycles logical?
I went by the Indian store and they told me they won't have one until Spring.
For $15k, I won't consider one. Looks like a great bike for $9-11k.
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I went by the Indian store and they told me they won't have one until Spring.
For $15k, I won't consider one. Looks like a great bike for $9-11k.
I'll let some other DoOD take the hit on a new bike and pick one up used after his Harley Buddies call it a bitch bike. How's that for "Guzzi content"???
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I've always thought that the Scout engine was a thing of beauty, so I'm a bit disappointed that it isn't showcased here. I guess this bike is all about less show and more go, so hats off to Indian for having the stones to break the mold.
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Someone in the aftermarket will have a highside flat track style exhaust available before the first FTR hits the showroom floor. First thing most people do is change up the exhaust, so an ugly muffler is inconsequential.
I like it a lot. :thumb:
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Well...after Kev's original post and my reply and looking at the thread of the V85 I started to think a little about this machine and what Indian might be thinking down stream after its introduction. If the FTR is a sales success (or maybe even before), are there corporate thinkers considering...dare I say it...an ADV version of the FTR? I mention this only because there's a lot of R&D in this bike and the target demographic can't be all that large for a quasi retro American street tracker/fighter (is that even a bike niche?).
However, an American made 1200cc/120 Hp ADV weighing in around 520 +/- pounds sans aluminum luggage, say with a 4 to 4.5 gal tank is bound to expand this platforms appeal. Living out here in ADV central (Utah), I've been kicking around something to replace the KLR with now for 2-3 years and looked at a lot of options. Most are out of the running due to seat hight and/or overall weight/high center of gravity and lack of passing oomph. The last consideration nixing the Stornello. The V85 made the short list with the one major drawback being dealer support.
But, if Indian was to roll the FTR into the showroom floor in the next 12-18 months in ADV guise, well that would more than likely fill my fourth, and last availabe slot in the bike bay as it would prob meet all my basic requirements. Reasonable seat height/dry weight close to 500/accessible dealer support available in my time zone/more than enough HP to take the open road fully loaded. Price would probably not figure into the decision at all unless it was way out of bounds for the category.
Forgot to add...if you think an FTR based ADV is (in the words of Ralph Wiggum) "unpossible", remember that supposedly Harley is introducing the "Dirt Glide"*
*as coined by a member of this site.
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who kicked it up the arse
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Well...after Kev's original post and my reply and looking at the thread of the V85 I started to think a little about this machine and what Indian might be thinking down stream after its introduction. If the FTR is a sales success (or maybe even before), are there corporate thinkers considering...dare I say it...an ADV version of the FTR? I mention this only because there's a lot of R&D in this bike and the target demographic can't be all that large for a quasi retro American street tracker/fighter (is that even a bike niche?).
However, an American made 1200cc/120 Hp ADV weighing in around 520 +/- pounds sans aluminum luggage, say with a 4 to 4.5 gal tank is bound to expand this platforms appeal. Living out here in ADV central (Utah), I've been kicking around something to replace the KLR with now for 2-3 years and looked at a lot of options. Most are out of the running due to seat hight and/or overall weight/high center of gravity and lack of passing oomph. The last consideration nixing the Stornello. The V85 made the short list with the one major drawback being dealer support.
But, if Indian was to roll the FTR into the showroom floor in the next 12-18 months in ADV guise, well that would more than likely fill my fourth, and last availabe slot in the bike bay as it would prob meet all my basic requirements. Reasonable seat height/dry weight close to 500/accessible dealer support available in my time zone/more than enough HP to take the open road fully loaded. Price would probably not figure into the decision at all unless it was way out of bounds for the category.
Forgot to add...if you think an FTR based ADV is (in the words of Ralph Wiggum) "unpossible", remember that supposedly Harley is introducing the "Dirt Glide"*
*as coined by a member of this site.
A great idea!
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I've always thought that the Scout engine was a thing of beauty, so I'm a bit disappointed that it isn't showcased here. I guess this bike is all about less show and more go, so hats off to Indian for having the stones to break the mold.
"Scout engine"? This one has 120hp (possibly a real hunderd). And the current Scout has maybe 70?
I be might happy with a "Scout" (70hp) with midmounts at $7k.
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The base model seems to be coming in very close to the V85's predicted price range.
And though I'd likely still take the V85 (or a road going variant) for a number of reasons I bet a lot of people would prefer the FTR for the additional performance.
I suspect the number of folks who will cross shop a v85 and FTR will be counted on one hand.
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I suspect the number of folks who will cross shop a v85 and FTR will be counted on one hand.
Or, zero.
An ADVtouringbike and a hooligan street tracker. Two different segments.
GS and Tenere people will be looking at the V85TT.
Ducati Hyperstrada and supermotard types will be looking at the FTR1200.
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Indian like Harley are trying to break out of the cruiser mould. This model might work in the US but here in Europe it would have to compete with the likes of KTM and that would take some doing.
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Or, zero.
An ADVtouringbike and a hooligan street tracker. Two different segments.
GS and Tenere people will be looking at the V85TT.
Ducati Hyperstrada and supermotard types will be looking at the FTR1200.
And you guys are both wrong just judging from interest in this thread.
Yes two different categories, but it's largely proven that serious motorcyclists often have multiple bikes from different categories.
My point wasn't direct competition so much as what you get for your money in each and what might draw customers to either.
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Definitely down on power to the KTM, but my goodness KTMs are ugly. I think the FTR will be easier to live with maintenance wise.
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"Scout engine"? This one has 120hp (possibly a real hunderd). And the current Scout has maybe 70?
Yes, although it has been modified to get that power and a weight reduction of 40lbs, this is Scout engine architecture.
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"Scout engine"? This one has 120hp (possibly a real hunderd). And the current Scout has maybe 70?
I be might happy with a "Scout" (70hp) with midmounts at $7k.
OOOPS, I missed that post.
Scout numbers were 100 crank hp / 72 torques -----> MC.com got 85 rwhp / 65 torques, CW got 86/64.
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it's largely proven that serious motorcyclists often have multiple bikes from different categories.
Yes, that's true, but a guy with a BMW GS and a Ducati Hypermotard who is shopping to replace his BMW GS will be looking at the V85TT (and Super Tenere, etc.) and not the FTR1200. Likewise, if he is replacing his Hypermotard, he will be at the Indian dealer looking at the FTR1200 (and Speed Triple, etc.).
Not many who is shopping for an ADVtouring machine will look at the FTR. Two big reasons: Fuel capacity, for one. Luggage mounting options for another.
My bet says there will be a couple more FTRs coming down the pike. One of them will be and ADVtouring machine.
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I'd be more interested in a 750cc 75HP version of this bike.
I think I would buy a new Harley Softail for the money they are asking for this bike.
I guess my hooligan days are behind me.
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My bet says there will be a couple more FTRs coming down the pike. One of them will be and ADVtouring machine.
That's what I'm hoping, -- that the FTRs is Indian's gateway to more "non-cruiser" bikes in the future. Should be interesting to see what they put out ...
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Not many who is shopping for an ADVtouring machine will look at the FTR.
Oh jezus I never said they were.... good lord.... :rolleyes:
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I think I would buy a new Harley Softail for the money they are asking for this bike.
Probably me too but we'd both be short a couple of thousand bucks or more (except for the first three models, seven of the 10 softails are $17K+).
FTR $12,999-$14,999
Softails: $14,549-$21,349
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There are many enthusist on this board who are excited to see the FTR, not because they intend to buy one, but rather they are hopeful that it will sell well, be good for Indian to break out of the cruiser market, and via the same line of thinking, be good for the entire industry.
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When Indian first came back, with only 3 versions of the "Chief" model, I was hoping for a full line. The big touring bikes called the Chief, ADV bike called the Scout, Sport-touring bike called the Brave, something just like the FTR1200 called the Warrior... You get the theme. We joked their Sportster like bike could be called the Squaw. We were not being nice and I apologize if that offended anyone.
I hope this continues with much success and someday I might trade off the GS for one of their ADV-Touring bikes..
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OOOPS, I missed that post.
Scout numbers were 100 crank hp / 72 torques -----> MC.com got 85 rwhp / 65 torques, CW got 86/64.
On the videos I've watched, Indian is saying the FTR's engine is based on, but different from, the Scout.
New cases. New Crank. Lightweight alloys used on all the covers. They're claiming a huge weight savings in the FTR engine, as compared to the Scout engine.
Cool hotrod stuff.
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This thing doesn't have the current Scout engine.
Pretty obvious.
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Thanks Captain.
This thing doesn't have the current Scout engine.
Pretty obvious.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
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"Scout engine"? This one has 120hp (possibly a real hunderd). And the current Scout has maybe 70?
I be might happy with a "Scout" (70hp) with midmounts at $7k.
The Scout engine is the same as the Victory Project 152 engine and therefore the Victory Octane - just states of tune varied. That's the whole point of it, it does different jobs for different bikes. There were whispers of a water cooled bigger Victory engine in development (think > 1500cc) which was originally for the next generation Victory Cross bikes but that disappeared off of the radar when Victory was canned. Expect that engine to re-appear (like this Project 152 engine) in Indian bikes of various guises within the next few years.
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Some different bits, not sure how many parts would interchange but they are both in such a mild state of tune you'd get more power from a remap of some sort. Not that either needs it.
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When I test rode several Scouts (and the Octane), it's engine and gear box seemed very good. This is from Indian, I'm sure it is crank, but the power numbers and my feel were quite good.
HP = 100
ft-lbs= 72
Peak Torque = 6000 RPMs
https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/scout/specs/
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Just to clear up any confusion, Indian started with the Scout engine on the FTR1200 and made many of modifications. It is not a situation like the Scout FTR750, www.indianmotorcycl e.com/.../flat-track-race/ftr750, where they designed and built a completely different engine. Those racers that were able to purchase one were paying upwards of $40-50K for that bike. Designing and building a completely new engine for the FTR1200 would have resulted in an even more costly machine than their current starting prices of $13-15K that would have surely resulted in a sales failure for Indian, obviously.
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info on the FTR1200 engine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQgis63r2r8
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The FTR 1200 motor sounds really strong. Plenty of torque to make a little over 500 lb bike move quite well! I just hope as they tweek it for more power, they didn't give up durability. On paper I think Indian has knocked it out of the park with the FTR and look forward to what else they come up with based on this platform.
:bow:
My experience with the 1100 Scout motor was equally impressed. It was on par with my 1200 Sport, which never seemed to lack get up and go. Both at or near 100 HP and in the 70s for torque with a red line of 8000. And both shifted quite well. It was just being wasted in a cruiser layout. :evil: That motor, as is, in the FTR would have been no slough, IMHO.
Other than tank size, this would have been a real contender for my $$$, if I hadn't just bought a new Griso (that also needs about an extra gallon of fuel capacity).
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sounds like a great bike for $10k
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Watching that guy do wheelies really makes me want one bad. Not.
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sounds like a great bike for $10k
John, I don't recall you being such a pessimist when a new bike was released.
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John, I don't recall you being such a pessimist when a new bike was released.
I've been at the Indian dealer several times, just to see if they could sell a regular Scout with midmounts and maybe a little cafe tuck and flyscreen. The sales guy give me a "deer in the headlights" look (after I explained what midmounts are).
This looks like a cool bike. But it's a pretty expensive toy at $13-15k (for that money you can get a Duc Super Sport, a "real motorcycle" with a gas tank). If I was going to spend my money, which I ain't, there are several Duactis for that much money that are real performers. Not to mention some of the new middleweights like the Kaw 900, Suzuki 1000 naked, and Yamaha 900 triple for $10k.
I am as curious about the small tires and long wheelbase as I am the engine and frame.
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There are several sets of mid-mounts for Scouts-but I think the would be cramped as heck.
You can buy the Krazy Horse kit too..
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There are several sets of mid-mounts for Scouts-but I think the would be cramped as heck.
You can buy the Krazy Horse kit too..
You're right from my view point. The Scout has a cruiser frame with a very low seat. Putting you're feet under the seat would be a no-go unless the seat could be raised 6". It would probably need a completely different frame, kinda like the FTR. :wink:
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meh
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You're right from my view point. The Scout has a cruiser frame with a very low seat. Putting you're feet under the seat would be a no-go unless the seat could be raised 6". It would probably need a completely different frame, kinda like the FTR. :wink:
Or a seat like this
(https://cdp.azureedge.net/products-private/prod/aedca02a-037f-4f65-b925-77435d4c0915/56db311f-6162-433f-85d2-a6640166348f/00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000/7162713e-9103-4481-8335-a66c003087a8/ef1e578d-2875-43a3-861b-a66c0030ab1e/6000000001.jpg)
on this
(https://auto.ndtvimg.com/bike-images/colors/indian/scout/indian-scout-thunder-black.jpg?v=1)
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If I could find one of those Beemer seats, I'd probably buy a Scout...
That seat along with the 1920 beach bars would make it just right!Or a seat like this
(https://cdp.azureedge.net/products-private/prod/aedca02a-037f-4f65-b925-77435d4c0915/56db311f-6162-433f-85d2-a6640166348f/00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000/7162713e-9103-4481-8335-a66c003087a8/ef1e578d-2875-43a3-861b-a66c0030ab1e/6000000001.jpg)
on this
(https://auto.ndtvimg.com/bike-images/colors/indian/scout/indian-scout-thunder-black.jpg?v=1)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
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I'm sure if you could fabricate a pan someone will stuff it for you. Think, high density foam. If I knew of high quality, decent priced, mid-pegs I might be tempted, too.
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The second picture, Scout after the BMW, still looks way to low for proper peg location under the seat. At least to me.
I'd just hold off till they make one close to the right configuration, that is able to work as a sport touring bike.
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The second picture, Scout after the BMW, still looks way to low for proper peg location under the seat. At least to me.
That's why you need a thick, tall, puffy seat like on the BMW
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Scout is my sport tourer.
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sounds like a great bike for $10k
Yep, beautiful bike and I would love to have one but $15K sounds like a lot of money for a bike like this. Having said that, I think it's one of the most exciting bikes to come out this year.
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You're right from my view point. The Scout has a cruiser frame with a very low seat. Putting you're feet under the seat would be a no-go unless the seat could be raised 6". It would probably need a completely different frame, kinda like the FTR. :wink:
Rearsets do not equal mid-mounts.
That is all...
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well crap, I might've found my next bike. Hopefully it's cheaper than the subject bike.
(https://revzilla.imgix.net/blog_content_image/image/54022/gallery/2020_Suzuki_Katana_03.jpg?w=715&dpr=1&auto=compress%2Cformat)
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/suzuki-shows-new-katana-at-intermot
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Really? You would be good riding that thing? I do apperciate the attempt to recall the original Katana, that was one way cool bike. This thing, well, it missis the target. But to each his own!
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Having ridden the bike it's based on Chad, HELL YEAH!
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Rearsets do not equal mid-mounts.
That is all...
Footpegs at least directly under the front edge of the seat. Used to me the norm, now you never see 'em.
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I love all of these new bikes hitting the market. The Panamerica/Dirtglide is pretty cool(even though I hate the stacked headlights). The FTR looks good on paper and I’ll check one out when they hit dealers. The new Katana shown above is a gsx-s1000 restyled and with a smaller tank. I’d ride one because the S and F(and the Katana) all have the K5 GSX-R1000 engine and it’s sublime. I also love the Honda NeoCafe series. The CB300R in red is a fantastic looking bike. The XSR700 and 900 are great. Basically, the 80’s are back again. Bikes have round headlights and standard ergonomics.
What surprises me the most about all the new bikes coming out is that for the first time in my 49 year life...I am lusting after a Harley. The Streetfighter is the only Harley I’ve ever seen that immediately had me frantically searching the web for every possible scrap of information. I hope it’s a Monster 821 without the stupid maintenance costs and with dealers on every street corner.
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Footpegs at least directly under the front edge of the seat. Used to me the norm, now you never see 'em.
Really cause I didn't have to look too far for that:
*Most Bonnie's
*HD Street 500/750
*HD all current Sportsters except the 48/48 Special
*HD Street Bob and Low Rider
*Moto Guzzi V9
*Moto Guzzi V7 Stone/Special
*Most Ducati Scramblers (I didn't check them all)
*BMW K1600 tourers
*BMW some of the R9T variants (I don't check them all)
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Nothing came to mind from the big 4/JapanInc?
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Nothing came to mind from the big 4/JapanInc?
I don't particularly follow them close enough and didn't bother to check. But I would think a few of the Harley clones might like the Yamaha/Star Sportster copies and maybe Honda, do they still make the Shadow RS.
The W800 still around?
Maybe the CB1100?
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I don't particularly follow them close enough and didn't bother to check. But I would think a few of the Harley clones might like the Yamaha/Star Sportster copies and maybe Honda, do they still make the Shadow RS.
The W800 still around?
Maybe the CB1100?
The W800 has been discontinued, 2016 was the last year, but, yes, it's ergos are definitely standard, as are the CB1100's.
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Kev m, when I look at the Harleys, they all look at least a couple inches in front of the seat, V9s are definitely forward of the seat. The V7s and K1600 mostly appear to be at the front edge. Bonnies are even to an inch or so behind (in the correct location :evil: ).
My thinking of standard is like a dirt bike where the peg are under the crotch area, which is a few inches behind the front of the seat. That way standing up on the pegs has your CG correct without moving forward or backwards. I guess those folks more attuned to old vintage bikes (pre 70's), think of standard as sitting in a chair with your feet slightly forward, where you have to lean forward to center your mass to stand up.
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Kev m, when I look at the Harleys, they all look at least a couple inches in front of the seat, V9s are definitely forward of the seat. The V7s and K1600 mostly appear to be at the front edge. Bonnies are even to an inch or so behind (in the correct location :evil: ).
My thinking of standard is like a dirt bike where the peg are under the crotch area, which is a few inches behind the front of the seat. That way standing up on the pegs has your CG correct without moving forward or backwards. I guess those folks more attuned to old vintage bikes (pre 70's), think of standard as sitting in a chair with your feet slightly forward, where you have to lean forward to center your mass to stand up.
I would call feet under you rearsets personally.
But it's all semantics.
Look at some of those bikes I mentioned, most have the pegs just under the front of the seat, maybe some just under the rear of the tank.
But yes to me MID-Mounts are most like you describe, sitting in a chair. And the term mid likely comes from being between rearsets and forwards to state the obvious.
Anyway rearsets are generally uncomfortable to me after say the first few hundred miles of the day.
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Rear sets are what I had on my Thruxton, CBR600RR and ZX6R. Those are more under your tail bone. In peg position, inches matter. :evil:
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Rear sets are what I had on my Thruxton, CBR600RR and ZX6R. Those are more under your tail bone. In peg position, inches matter. :evil:
I get that, but measure, in inches, the distance between those and forwards ... Mids are in the middle. Closer to rearsets are rearsets.... To me. YMMV and that's cool.
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goodness, I think we all know what rear-sets, mid-mounts and cruiser-mounts are.
I only brought it up because I'm not found of cruisers and wondered why they didn't build a Scout with sporty controls. Then I made my point that $15k is a steep price to get them.
Yeah, I'd like to check out the Katana. Retro cool for sure and pure Suzuki. Prolly won't like a small gas tank and no luggage mounts. I rode the full fairing sport touring version when it came out and it was a nice bike for about $10-11k. I probably should've struck when they were available.
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Rearsets/standard etc have changed since the old days, and by that I mean as late as the '70s.
Look at where racers had their feet in the 50s and 60s, feet ahead of hips. If you rode a Ducati in the '60s you know the foot position on those bikes was well forward of the hips.
Anyone here have a Morini 3 1/2 Sport?
Under the hip is where all the rearsets have been on my sport bikes. Much behind there would make it hard to shift weight in a competition situation, and I wager it would be hard to pee after a while too.
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goodness, I think we all know what rear-sets, mid-mounts and cruiser-mounts are.
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Obviously not, but it's not particularly important.
I really like the FTR, as I probably shouldn't because I've demonstrated again and again that's not my bag... But a Scout with a taller seat and mid-mounts would be another thing.
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Obviously not, but it's not particularly important.
I really like the FTR, as I probably shouldn't because I've demonstrated again and again that's not my bag... But a Scout with a taller seat and mid-mounts would be another thing.
You definitely need to buy the FTR.
I'll buy it from you when you decide you've made a mistake. :evil:
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I think the FTR is a really exciting step for Indian. Wow- a company that has the stones to design and campaign a race bike (in a venue they have never competed in)- then take that bike to the street? It looks purposeful, current, and muscular. However, it also has legitimate roots to a racing heritage. Despite the niggles here about styling, I think it's safe to say that a ton of effort was spent in this design. I'd love to see what Glynn Kerr has to say about it. This design is intended to get younger people into the brand- good long term vision. The S version with the red frame and racing tank looks absolutely fabulous to me. My guess is that it will be a hoot to ride. I think the key here is to judge bikes by the slot they are intended to fill- if that riding isn't your bag, that doesn't really matter.
Congrats Indian for stretching out and taking a chance on a daring project. I hope they sell a shit ton.
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Really cause I didn't have to look too far...
Nothing came to mind from the big 4/JapanInc?
Got me there but it was kinda what I was thinking. Where are all the UJMs. I know most Bonnies & V7s have them. Obviously the CB1100! But even the Z900RS & R1200R looks like it has rearsets!
(http://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/040618-Kawasaki-Z900RS-0145.jpg)
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Anyone here have a Morini 3 1/2 Sport?
Just about finished this one. Pegs are way too far forward.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/b1qSb9/Morini_outside_1_005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b1qSb9)
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Got me there but it was kinda what I was thinking. Where are all the UJMs. I know most Bonnies & V7s have them. Obviously the CB1100! But even the Z900RS & R1200R looks like it has rearsets!
(http://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/040618-Kawasaki-Z900RS-0145.jpg)
Well that brings up an interesting observation so thanks.
Generally speaking JAPanInc. looks further and further forward (like some of the EU brands).
And as our friend DW observed the mid-mount position I described is more common in older/nostalgic designs.
So that would explain its largely lack of absence in current JAPanInc. products.
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Just about finished this one. Pegs are way too far forward.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/b1qSb9/Morini_outside_1_005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b1qSb9)
But you've got so many great stories to tell about embarrassing bigger bikes (especially Harleys) with that!
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Great fun riding Morinis -glad to see my point on the history of peg positions so nicely illustrated.
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But you've got so many great stories to tell about embarrassing bigger bikes (especially Harleys) with that!
Not that particular one (although it probably could too), it's a customer's. Mine is a little more modern (and has the pegs perfectly placed :grin: )
(https://thumb.ibb.co/cxLXR9/Morini_first_ride_001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cxLXR9)
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Obviously not, but it's not particularly important.
I really like the FTR, as I probably shouldn't because I've demonstrated again and again that's not my bag... But a Scout with a taller seat and mid-mounts would be another thing.
You're on to something. The Scout I rode was really nice except for the pegs-which ground out on the first turn and were way too far ahead.
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Great fun riding Morinis -glad to see my point on the history of peg positions so nicely illustrated.
The problem with the early 3 1/2 Sport was Morini didn't alter the peg position from the GT/Strada. They were already a bit far forward for use with handlebars, with the 'Sport's clip-ons it's all wrong. This better illustrates how far forward they are.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/kww819/Morini_footpeg_placement_001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kww819)
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At the Meadowlands (New Jersey) over the weekend, Indian had the new FTR1200 on display along with the full-race FTR750. The bike that Jared Mees rides is actually a bit different than this one (same number plate), but I suppose that if you were to buy one, this is what you are delivered as a starting point.
(http://www.dankalal.net/wildguzzi/FTRandFTR.JPG)
Here's what Jared rode. He and Tolbert have tried a number of different wheels; I'd call this one their Super-Inertia wheel.
(http://www.dankalal.net/wildguzzi/FTRMees.JPG)
[edited to add additional photo of Jared Mees bike]
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I just rode the S model and was impressed with it. I don't usually like the upright Supermoto style bike but this one felt pretty good. The motor was real good, torque-y and rev-vy very close to my Ducati but perhaps an edge on torque. The gearbox was very good and better than most Italian bikes.
The thing I really wanted to write about was the handling with that big front tire. And I have to say I was impressed with handling in new way. The steering head is steep and the bars are wide, so the rider has great leverage over the big fat front tire. And once you lean into it, the rider can feel the security of the big tire. It works well with the upright pegs. The knobs on the front tire did tramline in a road seam but not a problem.
I have to admit I'm impressed with the bike more than I would've guessed, vibration, mirrors, brakes, electric dash, etc. were all very good.
They've reinvented the naked bike. Despite that I think $15k+ is a lot for a Street Tracker. If they built a sport or cafe bike, it might be of interest to me but they would still have to come down on the price. I'll say that this is the sportiest motorcycle built in the USA.
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Isn't it nice when preconceptions are shattered? :thumb:
Considering that it is the only sport bike built in the USA that is some high praise! :cool:
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2wa, I guess you could consider the Indian as the only sport bike built in USA. I didn't consider it a sport bike when I rode it but I suppose you could.
I just wanted to give impressions from riding it. Thanks, I guess.
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Great report Low, thanks!
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Nice bike for sure. But somehow Polaris never seems to get the pipes correct. The junction where the pipes turn skyward looks all wrong.
YMMV, as it should.
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I'll be interesting to see how the forthcoming HD Streetfighter compares to the FTR.
It is exciting that American manufacturers are finally building something other than cruisers.
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I have to say I was impressed with handling in new way. The steering head is steep and the bars are wide, so the rider has great leverage over the big fat front tire. And once you lean into it, the rider can feel the security of the big tire. It works well with the upright pegs. The knobs on the front tire did tramline in a road seam but not a problem.
From the Indian website:
Tires / Wheels
Front TiresDunlop® DT3-R Radial, 120/70R19 60V
Front WheelCast 19 in x 3 in
Rear TiresDunlop® DT3-R Radial, 150/70R18
Rear WheelCast 18 in x 4.25 in
So, the front is a 120/70, the same width and aspect ratio as is on most sportsbikes and sporty standards. It's just on a 19-inch wheel rather than 17- or 18-inches.
The rear 150/70-18 on a 4.25 wheel is an old-school sportsbike size from the 1980s/1990s, before sportsbikes and sporty standards were all moved to the 17-inch rear.
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Nice bike for sure. But somehow Polaris never seems to get the pipes correct. The junction where the pipes turn skyward looks all wrong.
YMMV, as it should.
Funny you should say that. There was a bike in the showroom, the Indian pannier only goes on the left side. One only. :grin:
The right side has the pipes.
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From the Indian website:
Tires / Wheels
Front TiresDunlop® DT3-R Radial, 120/70R19 60V
Front WheelCast 19 in x 3 in
Rear TiresDunlop® DT3-R Radial, 150/70R18
Rear WheelCast 18 in x 4.25 in
So, the front is a 120/70, the same width and aspect ratio as is on most sportsbikes and sporty standards. It's just on a 19-inch wheel rather than 17- or 18-inches.
The rear 150/70-18 on a 4.25 wheel is an old-school sportsbike size from the 1980s/1990s, before sportsbikes and sporty standards were all moved to the 17-inch rear.
Darren was reading the tire and said it was a 120, it looks HUGE. But it works. To me it's not a $15-17k bike with no body works or windshield but I am impressed with riding it. No,I like my Ducati better but it did impress me, maybe my expectations were low. Anyone wanting a street tracker- supermoto style should like it.
Some one should ride one and compare my opinion.
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I want something between the Scout and the FTR.
A "Sport Scout". The classic styling of the Scout, but with wheels, brakes, suspension of the FTR.
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I want something between the Scout and the FTR.
A "Sport Scout". The classic styling of the Scout, but with wheels, brakes, suspension of the FTR.
Take a ride of on one these. It's got some guts.
The FTR is still too upright for me but it works better than any - Supermoto/Adventure/ Street Tracker - I've ridden. But way too much $$$ money IMO even if I wanted it.
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Sat on one. Seat seems too short toward the front for me. My natural position to sit on the bike seemed to place me partially
on the back end of the tank.
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I want something between the Scout and the FTR.
A "Sport Scout". The classic styling of the Scout, but with wheels, brakes, suspension of the FTR.
I like the styling of at least one of the FTR variations, but for me it should have been a 750cc like the actual dirt tracker. I have no need for more than about 65 hp on a bike. Any bike I have owned with more than 65 HP I very rarely used all available power.
When I was on one it felt like I was on top of the bike instead of feeling like I was part of the bike. My local dealer allows test rides and actually put the FTR in his rental fleet.
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I think it's a fabulous looking design as well as a good story. Indian kept it real and actually built/campaigned a hugely successful flat tracker. That says a LOT for Polaris. The FTR is a careful adaptation of that machine. It's a needed departure for the brand. It has exciting stats. It's not simply chrome and tassles. I couldn't be happier for the brand and hope a lot of hooligan younger people buy them to expand the customer base. I would love to take one on a ride.
Oh- and I don't think motorcycle design came to an abrupt halt when Guzzi came out with the Griso. As a design, the Griso does not work from all angles. There, I said it.
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I want something between the Scout and the FTR.
A "Sport Scout". The classic styling of the Scout, but with wheels, brakes, suspension of the FTR.
A secondhand Victory Octane with some scout bits?
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The Octane isn't my favorite, the engine styling seems bad to me. Scout is plenty powerful. Plus there are ways to get more power out of them (including a big bore kit) but I don't know why.
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A secondhand Victory Octane with some scout bits?
The wheels, brakes, suspension of the Victory Octane was basically the same as the Scout.
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I think it's a fabulous looking design as well as a good story. Indian kept it real and actually built/campaigned a hugely successful flat tracker. That says a LOT for Polaris. The FTR is a careful adaptation of that machine. It's a needed departure for the brand. It has exciting stats. It's not simply chrome and tassles. I couldn't be happier for the brand and hope a lot of hooligan younger people buy them to expand the customer base. I would love to take one on a ride.
Oh- and I don't think motorcycle design came to an abrupt halt when Guzzi came out with the Griso. As a design, the Griso does not work from all angles. There, I said it.
Agree. You can see some of the Victory 156 Hill Climb bike in the FTR.
I still wish Polaris would have kept Indian as the vintage cruiser brand and expanded Victory to full line brand. And they could have shared showrooms/dealers. Will Indian continue to come out with expanded bike models outside the cruiser world? I wouldn't mind them expanding the FTR motor onto a sport touring platform and an adventure/touring.
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Agree that Indian should've kept Victory and combined them into single dealership. I understand that Victory promised the dealers the moon when they denied them attendant Indian franchises, then demanded they double down on required marketing merchandise just before they pulled the plug.
Regarding the Scout/Street Tracker/Octane. The FTR is nice bike but I have to wonder why they just didn't build a standard model for the Scout with midmount pegs and sell at $9k? That's really the deal with all the Polaris stuff, they design their bikes with the rider's feet way out?
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When I showed my wife the picture of the Indian, her response was "Where is the engine" "I see alot of pipes, but cant tell where the engine begins or ends" :tongue: It made me laugh, and take a second look...Hmm, there really is no clear view of the cylinders, and heads ,like we are used to seeing on some other v twins.
Rick.