Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Moto on October 12, 2018, 07:39:06 AM
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The millennials "ruined lunch, motorcycles and marriage," says an opinion writer in today's New York Times.
Did they? If so, how? Discuss.
Moto
Extra credit: How did they ruin lunch and marriage?
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As you stated, 'opinion writer'. They haven't ruined motorcycles for me. If you engage in groupthink or herd mentality, you may see it differently. I see it indifferenty.
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
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Lunch.. artisan. Motorcycles.. bobbers with knobbies. Marriage.. they don't do that. Easy. <shrug>
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Motorcycle companies ruined the style of motorcycles chasing the millennial market share. Bikes now have to look like something out of the Transformers TV cartoon and whats with the "beek" on all the new bikes.
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They've certainly ruined the look of new motorcycles. But I never wanna go back to skinny forks, carbs and drum brakes. I just want a motorcycle to look like a motorcycle. And I want my Luxury Tourer to look like this:
(http://www.motorstown.com/images/suzuki-gs1100gk-07.jpg)
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During my 55+ years of riding motorcycling and motorcycles have only gotten better for me. That's not my opinion, it's my actual experience. :laugh:
I really don't give a fiddlers f*** about the opinion of others, that's old lady gossip, nuff said.
Paul
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well, the author explains the lunch statement (Mayo is out...too bland) but he doesn't expound on the Motorcycles or the Marriage comment, so we're left to surmise.
Guessing he doens't like the retro reboot (Royal Enfields, Bonnevilles and V7's as exhibit A) OR he thinks, as a Boomer, that a dressed Heritage is the epitome of 2 wheeled nirvana, and HD is reeling due to the punks wanting simple bikes to ride with their rolled jeans, waxed cotton and Halcyon's. *shrug*
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Sprinkle some paprika on your mayo and it becomes aoli... right? A little garlic in there too, perhaps? Everyone makes their own choices, but around here (check local listings) it seems millenials have either a plethora of low paying jobs to choose from or astronomical student debt. Meanwhile, the Pandora's Box of technology marches on at its overwhelming pace with the $10,000 motorcycle waiting for someone who gives a rat's patoot (fiddler's f... had been used already :laugh:).
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Are millennials buying motorcycles? :shocked:
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If anything, bikes have been brought back to a place where "bigger, louder, manlier" isn't the sign of a "real motorcycle" anymore. 350s, 500s, 750s... it's nice to see them back, and not "sneered at" (by anyone other than the old guard that can't see beyond "bigger numbers mean better").
Nah, I see a return to the bikes I always liked. I'm seeing a bigger drive towards classic styling. Those "transformer" bikes? Those aren't millennials driving that movement, that started a while ago, and I'd be happy the see that crap vanish entirely.
Millennials aren't "ruining" anything... they're facing tougher economic times than any of us ever did, and they're adapting to it the best they can. I may not agree with some of the attitudes and opinions that are gathering steam, but I do agree with much of it. It ain't my world anymore... I'm on cruise control in the slow lane, it's their turn to take over the fast lane and get where they need to be.
Which leads into the rest of the article... I think they DO need to vote. My only worry is that an uninformed vote is worse than no vote at all.
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The US unemployment rate is at its lowest since 1969 so the economy is pretty good for millenials and everybody else. The issue with motorcycling is that older people have a great amount of money in 2018, more than ever before in history. There are a lot of them and some of them are spending it on very expensive motorcycles. BMWs sales are booming riding the wave of 'get the best now before I croak' buyers. The isn't the 1970s when motorcycles made in low income countries were competing for young people's money in richer countries. As a result, until recently millenials were ignored by the manufacturers, until the manufacturers figured out that the wealthy older people were once younger people with smaller budgets who developed their interest in motorcycling at a younger age.
Millenials aren't spoiling motorcycling, older people with wads of cash are warping motorcycling by virtue of their buying power. Younger people are buying what is offered to them, which until recently wasn't much. My advice to them has been to buy used, as the vanity and wealth of the old drives them to buy newer and (especially) more expensive bikes being pitched to them, they are casting off stuff which often has better long term value.
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The US unemployment rate is at its lowest since 1969 so the economy is pretty good for millenials and everybody else. The issue with motorcycling is that older people have a great of money in 2018, more than ever before in history. There are a lot of them and some of them are spending it on very expensive motorcycles. BMWs sales are booming riding the wave of 'get the best now before I croak' buyers. The isn't the 1970s when motorcycles made in low income countries were competing for young people's money in richer countries. As a result, until recently millenials were ignored by the manufacturers, until the manufacturers figured out that the wealthy older people were once younger people with smaller budgets who developed their interest in motorcycling at a younger age.
Millenials aren't spoiling motorcycling, older people with wads of cash are warping motorcycling by virtue of their buying power. Younger people are buying what is offered to them, which until recently wasn't much. My advice to them has been to buy used, as the vanity and wealth of the old drives them to buy newer and (especially) more expensive bikes being pitched to them, they are casting off stuff which often has better long term value.
How far does a buck go now, compared to the 70s? Unemployment isn't the only thing at play here, and isn't the only thing that defines a good economy.
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Once electric motorcycles become "mainstream", I think millenials will jump on board.
Most millenials I know( some of my sons friends) dont want to get their hands greasy.
They want a bike that will be ready to go at a moments notice,that is quiet, clean, and require very little maintenance.
When you look at what a company like zero motorcycles is offering, I think thats the type of bike that will appeal to millenials.
Everything changes, and there is a huge shift in trends when it comes to motorcycles these days.
I think in the next 5-10 years, there are going to be big changes in motorcycling, both recreationally, and for transportation. I can see many of us here having at least one electric motorcycle in the stable.
I think I am ready...
Rick
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Most millenials I know (some of my sons friends) dont want to get their hands greasy. They want a bike that will be ready to go at a moments notice,that is quiet, clean, and require very little maintenance.
Like a 1960's Honda when compared to state of the art 1959. The more things seem to change, the more they stay the same. The difference in 2018 is that older people have more buying power and are directing the market to their 'mature' demand... unlike in the 1960s when today's large numbers of wealthy older people were at that time large numbers of younger people buying what Honda accurately figured out young people want. Its hard to be mainstream hip and attract a high status mate while spending your weekends fixing your motorcycle. :grin:
I could see electric bikes doing something similar if they can reduce prices.
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How far does a buck go now, compared to the 70s? Unemployment isn't the only thing at play here, and isn't the only thing that defines a good economy.
$20 today has the "purchasing power" of about $3.50 in 1970.
Of course, USA median family income in 1970 was about $10,000. In 2017, that number was about $61,000.
Lets not let this segue into politics. Wouldn't be prudent.
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Didn't think I was, certainly didn't mean to.
Was just trying to show that the modern young person is facing a vastly different world than we did... hell, in the 90s when I went to university, my tuition was about $3800 a year. So, it makes sense that luxury items (like motorcycles) would be in a transition period.
Wasn't making any statements regarding policy or party, and I absolve myself of any responsibility if this discussion goes that way. Just sayin'.
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In other news today, an old man screamed, "Get off my lawn!" at a group of younger people. Film at 11.
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Didn't think I was, certainly didn't mean to.
Was just trying to show that the modern young person is facing a vastly different world than we did... hell, in the 90s when I went to university, my tuition was about $3800 a year. So, it makes sense that luxury items (like motorcycles) would be in a transition period.
Wasn't making any statements regarding policy or party.
My $.02:
Motorcycles, for the past 60 years, have benefitted from the postwar baby boom. Baby Boomers bought Bonnevilles and Cubs and CB750s. They also bought Mustangs and GTOs and Camaros. The corporations have lived off this same (large) group of consumers.
Now, that group of consumers is beginning to age out. So, it's only natural that corporations will be pivoting to accomodate GenX, and Millenials, and quit focusing so many resources on the boomers.
A big "problem" the Millenials have is the amount of money they spend on media, and other things that boomers never did. Millenials do have some money. It's just that many of them would rather spend a few hundered $$$ per month on cellphones and such, rather than on a motorcycle payment.
Priorities, you know...
It's just up to the powersports industry (and others) to figure out how to sway what the Millenials choose to spend their money on...
(http://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/FT_18.02.15_GenerationsBirths_projected.png?w=310)
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/01/millennials-overtake-baby-boomers/
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Replying as a millenial,
No one eats lunch unless they're forced to or it's an unpaid hour, eat breakfast and work thru lunch until closing time then grab dinner.
Marriage? Maybe, our rates of marriage are low and we marry at an older age but once we are married our rates of divorce are much lower than boomers and gen-xers.
And was motorcycle ridership ever so widespread in the US that it's been a noticeable decline since Millennials came into driving age? The 2008 global financial crisis caused by boomers crippled the motorcycle industry and it's been slowly clawing its way back since then. I personally think millennial interest in cafe racers, scramblers and now street trackers have been responsible for Moto Guzzi's recent success, but I think Moto Guzzi will be in trouble again, google "Cafe Killers" and "Retrowave" to see where I think the trend is swinging.
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My $.02:
Motorcycles, for the past 60 years, have benefitted from the postwar baby boom. Baby Boomers bought Bonnevilles and Cubs and CB750s. They also bought Mustangs and GTOs and Camaros. The corporations have lived off this same (large) group of consumers.
Now, that group of consumers is beginning to age out. So, it's only natural that corporations will be pivoting to accomodate GenX, and Millenials, and quit focusing so many resources on the boomers.
A big "problem" the Millenials have is the amount of money they spend on media, and other things that boomers never did. Millenials do have some money. It's just that many of them would rather spend a few hundered $$$ per month on cellphones and such, rather than on a motorcycle payment.
Priorities, you know...
It's just up to the powersports industry (and others) to figure out how to sway what the Millenials choose to spend their money on...
As a Gen-Xer, I gotta say, other than a pretty sweet period of music and t-shirts, I never felt particularly catered to, It always felt that the boomers still took precedence, and then somewhere in the early 2000s, it all started to change a bit. Maybe that's just me, though.
I agree that the priority for dollars is different right now, for sure (for many, not all of course, but we're all reasonable, and I'm pretty sure that I didn't need to clarify that, but there it is). I see a lot more early 80s small-bore bikes on the road now than I have in my lifetime, as well a higher proportion of scooters, so my gut says that money is definitely a driving factor for those who DO choose to ride.
That said, it was for me, too. I bought my first street-"worthy" bike for $700, and it hurt to spend the money, as an apprentice cook.
There's more at play for sure, attitudes regarding motorcyclists in general, environmental concerns... conversations I've had in some other non-bike forums show a vastly different attitude towards the "wisdom" of riding bikes among certain demographics.
Thought, to be fair, I also see a truly different approch to things when comparing Urban and Rural opinions. Kids out my way all still want their dirt bikes and snowmobiles and quads... but many of them are leaving for more urban opportunities, too.
Ehh. I'm not getting any younger, and as I said, it's not my world anymore. But it sure is interesting to watch.
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My $.02:
Motorcycles, for the past 60 years, have benefitted from the postwar baby boom. Baby Boomers bought Bonnevilles and Cubs and CB750s. They also bought Mustangs and GTOs and Camaros. The corporations have lived off this same (large) group of consumers.
Now, that group of consumers is beginning to age out. So, it's only natural that corporations will be pivoting to accomodate GenX, and Millenials, and quit focusing so many resources on the boomers.
A big "problem" the Millenials have is the amount of money they spend on media, and other things that boomers never did. Millenials do have some money. It's just that many of them would rather spend a few hundered $$$ per month on cellphones and such, rather than on a motorcycle payment.
Priorities, you know...
It's just up to the powersports industry (and others) to figure out how to sway what the Millenials choose to spend their money on...
(http://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/FT_18.02.15_GenerationsBirths_projected.png?w=310)
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/01/millennials-overtake-baby-boomers/
Very good opinion........
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$20 today has the "purchasing power" of about $3.50 in 1970.
Of course, USA median family income in 1970 was about $10,000. In 2017, that number was about $61,000.
Lets not let this segue into politics. Wouldn't be prudent.
The big diff. is things that were once luxury items are now disposable...
computers, microwaves, mobile phones, washer/dryers
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As a Gen-Xer, I gotta say, other than a pretty sweet period of music and t-shirts, I never felt particularly catered to, It always felt that the boomers still took precedence, and then somewhere in the early 2000s, it all started to change a bit. Maybe that's just me, though.
As a fellow GenXer, I know what you mean...
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The big diff. is things that were once luxury items are now disposable...
computers, microwaves, mobile phones, washer/dryers
Kids spend $1000 on an iPhone, then hundreds per month to use it, and access media.
Never before did using a telephone cost so much...
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Replying as a millenial,
No one eats lunch unless they're forced to or it's an unpaid hour, eat breakfast and work thru lunch until closing time then grab dinner.
True but also true of my parent's generation (pre-boomers)
Marriage? Maybe, our rates of marriage are low and we marry at an older age but once we are married our rates of divorce are much lower than boomers and gen-xers.
Kudos, fixed something we've been screwing up for years.
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I'm sure the moto companies will find ways into the Millenials' wallets...
It will just take those companies some time to wean off of the Boomers.
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True but also true of my parent's generation (pre-boomers)Kudos, fixed something we've been screwing up for years.
Yeah, I've never had a paid lunch break in my life. and, in my trade... there were precious few lunch breaks at all. We just worked through that unpaid half hour.
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Our 25 year old grandson is interested in modified high power Diesel PU trucks,mud racing, snowmobiles and jetski's.....And women....He admires my bikes but really has no interest in owning one. 23 year grand daughter would be interested in bikes but is a graduate student with limited funds...20 year old neigbor's kid wants a bike but his mom says no...He lives at home.......Another 20 or so year old down the street rides a very loud Victory...His dad rides a loud Harley........
I'm 71, most of my friends over the years never rode bikes or even had hot rod cars...
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I'm sure the moto companies will find ways into the Millenials' wallets...
It will just take them time to wean off of the Boomers.
Yes, and that may be traumatic unless they grab some of the huge Indian etc market too. The chart below plus the emphasis on the short term tells you a lot about current motorcycle manufacturer offerings in the US and Europe. If I go to my local Euro Moto weekly meeting, there are a lot of nice $10-25K bikes and a lot of people in their mid-60s or higher. Manufacturers paying workers 1st or 2nd world salaries are not currently focusing on millenials because they can't support a business that's developed over time based on selling large volumes of expensive bikes. However, its worth noting that the steepest increase in income in the current (healthy) economy is with younger people... and that may get some attention because its not just income level that's relevant, its also new income that isn't already dedicated to something else. I think Piaggio/Guzzi is working that niche with the V7s, having failed to attract boomer money that goes after newer and 'better' every year.
(https://www.stlouisfed.org/~/media/Blog/2017/October/BlogImage_OldAmIncome_100217.png?la=en)
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Modern bikes are so much better in many ways. The one thing that I don't like about certain modern bikes, is the praying mantis look of some of them.
(https://i.postimg.cc/T14hPPWN/kuoM1cW.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TYBpMpxp/mTrZZ.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0cFFS5t/opsfix-R80-BTt-L0mlk-F.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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It's all apples vs oranges. it's a completely different world. Millennials will do what they want to do, just like older people do & did.
30+ yrs ago, you rode/drove what you wanted, built the way you wanted it built and basically paid cash face-to face to people who you personally found & met for the parts. Ignorance was truly bliss, because an old bike was a cheap way to have fun. It wasn't seen through Barret-Jackson glasses, Internet forums or eBay/craigslist/PayPal. if you were so inclined to ride old Italian bikes, you better have a lot of self-motivation and independence AND spare $$ because almost everything else out there was cheaper and used easier-to-find parts & accurate info.
Now you know what blather is in the Ny Times this morning (even if you don't really know) and have a real time online discussion about it with people all over the USA, essentially for free. Back then, this many long distance calls during the day would cost more than that cheap bike.... And you couldn't spend much or any time during work doing it, either.
Worry about your own bowl of corn flakes. And pay attention to what's going on, just in case you can learn something. jmho.
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I don't know, every generation has new things to spend money on. I graduated from HS in 73. Besides a car the other high expense was stereo equipment and records. Both were expensive when compared to what you get for the buck now in electronics and music. My first stereo cost me around $250 and was at best a mid-level system which in todays dollars would be over $1,500. New release albums were usually in the $4.99 range which is around $30 today!
I didn't get my first motorcycle until I was 23 (1979) and both my wife and I were working professional jobs. That was a used lightly used 77 Suzuki GS400 which I paid $800 for which today would be about $2,800.
GliderJohn
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I think the graph that showed the disposable income by age has a lot to do with why millennial's are less into motorcycles.
When I first started into road bikes in the late 80's I could buy an old second hand bike in running condition for a small portion of my wage. This was enough to make me an addict. I have always had a bike for most of my life and a few years ago at 45 I purchased my first new bike. I finally had enough disposable income.
I have always liked older styled bikes but in Australia most of them go for ridiculous amounts of money. I recently when to a bike rally aimed at older bikes and I felt very young. Talking to people their a lot of them had large collections and had the cash to buy more.
I don't see a lot of reasonably priced second hand bikes for a new starter these days. There are some cheap 10 year old bikes that would cost a heap to get to a reasonable standard. Older easy to work on stuff often sells for a lot of money and is purchased buy those with the cash and want what the struggled to have 40 years ago. Nothing wrong with this and it is just an observation.
I am curious what will happen in the next 20 years to the vintage (pre 1985) bike market. It would appear at the moment as some of the previously mentioned older collectors start to die of there bikes are sold to similar people with disposable income or as an investment because old bikes are worth good money and increasing in price every year. What happens when the people that love the 60's and 70's bikes are not buying and dying. The price starts to fall and the investors sell up before the crash.
Steve
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Modern bikes are so much better in many ways. The one thing that I don't like about certain modern bikes, is the praying mantis look of some of them.
(https://i.postimg.cc/T14hPPWN/kuoM1cW.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TYBpMpxp/mTrZZ.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0cFFS5t/opsfix-R80-BTt-L0mlk-F.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Agreed. Too buggy and birdy by far.
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The majority of the V7 riders that I see almost daily in NYC are millennials.
Also from the article: "Boomers were supposed to fix things, build things, save things for future generations"
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Here, accomodation costs for millennials is out of hand. I bought my first house, a two bedroom back-to-back, in the late 70s, for £3,500. I was earning £5,000 pa. The identical house next door went recently for £133,500. This in a northern city, not in the wealthy south east, where house prices have gone through the roof. My 29 year old daughter got a good degree from a good university, and has a good job, but the maximum mortgage she can get is £110,000. She's still living with us.
I heard a young man tell a radio interviewer that his rent takes between 40% and 45% of his salary. He's living in a flat, sharing with two others.
The blame lies on the shoulders of many of my generation. We've paid off our own mortgages and have inherited the mortgage-free properties of our parents. We've invested that windfall in property, which we let to the young, who we can outbid. A good friend of mine considers himself left-wing, but has seven properties in Leeds which he's letting.
I can see the problem. I wish I could see the solution.
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Well first, just because there is lower unemployment doesn't mean they're well paying jobs. I **think** the young people have less disposable income than previous generations. As a kid, I recall very few moms working. Now most families have both parents working as a norm.
Another factor that I think makes a difference, is the cost of ownership. When many of us were young, cars didn't get the fuel economy they do today. A motorcycle was inexpensive transportation. It was simply an economical way to get around. I some cases, it served needs as well as wants. I think bikes have moved more to the recreational side of things than they used to be. The least expensive vehicle I have to operate is my Subaru. That's all in. (Purchase price, insurance, maint.)
Anyone living in a less than perfect motorcycle environment, with little or no disposable income will not be able to justify a bike.
I don't believe the young people have ruined anything. Modifying cars and bikes go back to their inception. The young people are dealing with things as best they can. Before you can buy toys, you need food, shelter, clothing, and in many cases, transportation that can be used year around. Needs not wants.
I do agree that there are other things these days that also compete for that dollar.
John Henry
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I don't think there are as many Millennials as the Pew research indicates. Back when I was a working stiff, I did a lot of reading/studying about the different generations because I was managing workers who were very much younger/different than me. Here was my understanding of the various generations.
Silents -- born '27-'45, now 73 to 91 years old, no knowledge of size but small.
Boomers -- born '46-'64, now 54 to 72 years old, about 70 Million of them.
Gen X -- born '65-'83, now 35 to 53 years old, about 60 million of them.
Gen Y initially, now apparently known as Millennials -- born '84-'02, now 16 to 34 years old. My reading showed this was a small generation (<20 million). Pew is showing them at >70 million and growing. That can't happen, unless they're counting people who were not born here.
Here's my $.02. The Boomers lived high and fast while working and weren't financially ready to retire at a normal retirement age. (The recession of '08 didn't help since the value of their home, their primary retirement fund in many cases, dropped dramatically.) Consequently, in many cases they're working well into their 70's. Gen Xers got their education and jobs but are stuck in lower level/lower pay positions because The Boomers have not yet retired. The Millennials with their education completed are now stuck at the bottom of the job ladder, many with large loans to repay. They were also raised in an era of exploding technology, so spending a large percent of their discretionary income on the various electronics is "normal". Motorcycles, unless they were raised in a family of "gear-heads", fall to the bottom of the priority list.
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Silents -- born '27-'45, now 73 to 91 years old, no knowledge of size but small.
Boomers -- born '46-'64, now 54 to 72 years old, about 70 Million of them.
Gen X -- born '65-'83, now 35 to 53 years old, about 60 million of them.
Gen Y initially, now apparently known as Millennials -- born '84-'02, now 16 to 34 years old. My reading showed this was a small generation (<20 million). Pew is showing them at >70 million and growing. That can't happen, unless they're counting people who were not born here.
I think when they changed from Gen Y to Millennials they just keep counting, no cut-off. A baby born tomorrow is a Millennial just like my kids, born in the 90's. Millennials should be born after Jan 1, 2001
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Here, accomodation costs for millennials is out of hand. I bought my first house, a two bedroom back-to-back, in the late 70s, for �3,500. I was earning �5,000 pa. The identical house next door went recently for �133,500. This in a northern city, not in the wealthy south east, where house prices have gone through the roof. My 29 year old daughter got a good degree from a good university, and has a good job, but the maximum mortgage she can get is �110,000. She's still living with us.
I heard a young man tell a radio interviewer that his rent takes between 40% and 45% of his salary. He's living in a flat, sharing with two others. The blame lies on the shoulders of many of my generation. We've paid off our own mortgages and have inherited the mortgage-free properties of our parents. We've invested that windfall in property, which we let to the young, who we can outbid. A good friend of mine considers himself left-wing, but has seven properties in Leeds which he's letting.
I can see the problem. I wish I could see the solution.
The solution for your daughter is to move somewhere with a healthier economic environment.
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A 2018 report from Pew Research Center defines millennials as born from 1981 to 1996.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
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Figured id throw my two cents in as well as a millennial. we aren't the ones would are making the design changes to new bikes it's people older than us that think that's what we want, once a trend starts it snowballs to everyone else. I had an 07 Ducati monster that cost way too much and had to throw a big monthly payment at it to pay it off in a year. I sold it to buy my 81 G5 and absolutely love this bike. And to the point of buying expensive phones no one I know my age can flat out pay for one they buy it through a company like AT&T or Verizon on a monthly payment plan and end up paying for it for 18-24 months and paying interest. My phone was 600 and paid for it with PayPal credit with 0% interest for 6 months. Everyone i know my age doesn't have a savings if they do it's not more than a grand or two. Part of the problem is the lack in trade skills, a guy can't go and get an apprenticeship and be making 1000 a week in 2 years. I got lucky and found a job that I could teach myself to weld and machine. But now I'm rambling, growth and change is inevitable people that want things to stay the same their whole lives are what causes stagnation. If you don't like a new bike buy an old one and spend the same amount to restore it. If you don't like fancy lunches eat at a local dinner. The best thing about now is there are options not everyone has to like the same things. I know Chuck in Indiana will agree, the amount of breweries that are around now is a fantastic change and most are ran and created by older millennials.
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the modern young person is facing a vastly different world than we did... hell, in the 90s when I went to university, my tuition was about $3800 a year. So, it makes sense that luxury items (like motorcycles) would be in a transition period.
When I went to the university in the 70's I paid $1,500/year for tuition and room & board.
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When I went to the university in the 70's I paid $1,500/year for tuition and room & board.
That's a good point. I went to community college in 1982 and tuition was $140/semester. Min. wage was $3.50/hour.
My son went to community college in 2012 and tuition was $1,400/semester. Min. wage was $7/hour!
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Miraculously, I can agree with almost all the points made above -- an indicator that Millennials face a complex set of issues compared to what we faced.
I went to a premier private university but tuition was low enough that my dad could handle it on a professor's salary, and I graduated debt-free. My first jobs didn't pay much but I could afford rent and a good used motorcycle cost less than a month's pay.
My 28-year-old daughter graduated a state university with plenty of debt, enough that I sold off my airplane to pay it. Job options are much more limited than they were for me but real estate costs are out of sight. At the same time there are many more options for use of her leisure time. I could go hiking, climbing, skiing, cycling, canoeing, motorcycling and travel on the cheap, and/or spend money on albums. She can do those things PLUS everything electronic (and broadband internet/cable/cell service at a combined $200 to $300/month). Those leisure-time options can easily preclude wrenching on old machinery, so the old motorcycle looks less attractive. Her friends may choose to apply those mechanical skills to fooling around with cheap drones, robots and 3D printing.
There were a lot of things I couldn't afford and one of them was a new motorcycle (or car). Same for my kid.
The disparities in income between retired folks and young working people is a relatively new phenomenon (the Social Security business model is built on the assumption that working people have more money than retirees). The disparity appears to drive the dramatic split in the road-bike market between $20,000 cruisers/sport tourers/"adventure bikes" and $8,000 retrorides. The future for young people may very well be $6000 singles made in India, Thailand and China but styled like '60s-era Eurobikes. And for our group of old-bike fanatics, that's good news. When I can no longer horse a 500 lb bike around the barn and get sick of maintaining the 400 lb vintage, I can see myself wobbling into the sunset on an Enfield or China-made Morini.
That all pretty much applies to young folks living in and around cities on the coasts. Out here in rural Murrica kids still manage to acquire used dirt bikes, ATVs, badly abused 25-year-old Japanese road bikes and clapped-out trucks. The new KTMs and Beemers are all just passing thru.
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Spent last Thurs..- Mon. at the Barber Vintage Event. Millennials both male & female there in force. They were riding vintage of all brands and newer Bonny's, MG V-7's & Cafer's, Ducati Monsters & 748's. The Ace Corner was full with all age groups and really bitchin bikes. Spent most of Fri. in the museum they in there checking out the awesome displays. Seems like there is/are plenty out there who dig motorbikes
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The solution for your daughter is to move somewhere with a healthier economic environment.
And where might that be? And, of course, every other millennial living in the UK and caught by the high price of property, either to buy or rent, would need to move with her to this Shangri La.
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When I went to the university in the 70's I paid $1,500/year for tuition and room & board.
When I went to university at the back end of the 60s we weren't charged for tuition, and we got a maintenance grant based on our parents' income. But only 10% of the generation went to university. Now, students are charged £9,000 a year for tuition.
If an EU citizen goes to study in another EU country, tuition is paid by the Erasmus scheme. The daughter's boyfriend was offered a place for a Master's Degree at The University of Sheffield and The University of Copenhagen. The two year course in Sheffield would have cost him £18,000 in tuition fees. Copenhagen is more expensive to live and drink in than Sheffield, but tuition was Paid by the scheme. £18,000 buys a lot of beer.
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Lot of the Millennials I know spend lots on their technology devices. The difference I see is they are into electronics like Boomers were with machines. They also spend serious money on their kayaks or pedal bikes and spend considerable leisure time outdoors. All age groups around here spend a good bit of time at lakes and parks, biking and hiking and such.
I really don't think they are that much different, just more into what is popular at this period of time. In my younger days a good stereo was essential, same as today. It's just today the stereo is a good set of headphone and their smart phone device that also does video! Remember that motorcycling in the US has always been a small subset of the population.
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And where might that be? And, of course, every other millennial living in the UK and caught by the high price of property, either to buy or rent, would need to move with her to this Shangri La.
Outside of Europe, based on my own life experience. A good education makes that feasible, or I wouldn't suggest it. My wife and I own four houses (three outside of Europe) in preparation for future retirement income and I started with nothing, and inherited nothing. You have to do what most others in the UK don't do, and leave. Or compete for limited land resources at relatively low income for the rest of your life. There are just too many people for the land area.
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When I went to the university in the 70's I paid $1,500/year for tuition and room & board.
I was drafted into the Army in 1966.....In 1972 I quit a decent paying job, about $5 bucks an hour, and went to a state college on the GI Bill...I didn't like the jobs the 4 year degree would get me and became a skilled tradesmen....I never spent money on new bikes or new cars or new houses..I refused to be in debt...owned 6 houses over the years and no mortgage at 56 years old when I retired.....My wife and I have everything we want, a shop full of 20 year old bikes,chickens sewing machines and what we think is more than enough money..
Not everyone wants to live my lifestyle but it worked for me and it's an attainable goal if for most any person if they really want it ..
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Outside of Europe, based on my own life experience. A good education makes that feasible, or I wouldn't suggest it. My wife and I own four houses (three outside of Europe) in preparation for future retirement income and I started with nothing, and inherited nothing. You have to do what most others in the UK don't do, and leave. Or compete for limited land resources at relatively low income for the rest of your life. There are just too many people for the land area.
There's more to any country than just owning land. I certainly wouldn't want to live anywhere outside of The UK, France or Italy. Apart from anything else, there's the beer to consider. And no-one outside of the UK and Ireland knows how to make a cup of tea.
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We have right around 100 microbreweries in the county where I live, mostly within about 15 miles of where I live. Im guessing youd find one youd like, but alas the area hasnt been a place for young people to get ahead for quite a while. But there are others. The world is always changing and change is what young people are best positioned to exploit.
I speak Italian and spend almost every vacation at least partly in one or both of there and France. Wonderful places, but economically very challenging for somebody starting from scratch, great places for a middle aged motorcyclist to spend money, not good places for a young person to get ahead.
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Apart from anything else, there's the beer to consider. And no-one outside of the UK and Ireland knows how to make a cup of tea.
You've probably haven't had sweet southern brewed tea yet.
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I think categorizing people based on their birth date is the wrong way to answer questions. There will be a time when motorcycles go away, but it won't be today. Instead of criticizing our young people, perhaps we should encourage and assist them to achieve their life's vision. If we have done our part as parents and/or mentors, the world will be in good hands.
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I don't know, every generation has new things to spend money on. I graduated from HS in 73. Besides a car the other high expense was stereo equipment and records. Both were expensive when compared to what you get for the buck now in electronics and music. My first stereo cost me around $250 and was at best a mid-level system which in todays dollars would be over $1,500. New release albums were usually in the $4.99 range which is around $30 today!
I didn't get my first motorcycle until I was 23 (1979) and both my wife and I were working professional jobs. That was a used lightly used 77 Suzuki GS400 which I paid $800 for which today would be about $2,800.
GliderJohn
John,
To put things in perspective... we own a modern mid-level turntable/amp/speedbox/speaker combo. All in, the setup cost us $3000.00, three years ago. Vinyl LPs? Cost us between $24.99 and $40.00.
Around here, you don't get a used bike, of any age for less than $2500K unless you're buying a REAL project bike.
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#fakenews
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Millennials didn't ruin motorcycles, deer ruined motorcycles! At least a couple of mine. :evil:
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In the late 50's us farm boys could save 3-400 bucks and get a Harley, Indian, BSA or Triumph without a special m/c license or buying expensive gear. Now, in some areas you have to be 17 or 18 to get a m/c license and almost prohibitive insurance. Drive by any high school and there is not one bike in the parking lot. All Junior can buy with his parents signing is a car and the bike never enters the picture.
My first bike when I was 16 in 1959 was a '51 Harley 74. The bike was in my name and so was the insurance. I wont get into regulation and safety issues that have ruined t for young bikers.
Tex
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anyone got a link to read the article?
The article I saw was entitled "After Ruining Mayonnaise, Can Millennials Save America?"
And no. I won't post due to TOS (political content)
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A friend of mine has hit 4 now..
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Heed this my friend,
Your in powerful need of a medicine man (not Dr.) w/o delay before any more journeys by single track.
M
My wife thinks similar. But she is saying evil forces don't want me riding Guzzis and I should stick to riding Yamahas. I agreed with her about the evil forces and told her as soon as I got the Griso back ridable, I would go exercise it. She was not happy for some reason. Maybe she can set me up with some hot young exotic Voodoo practitioner that can help me out and make those evil deer stay away when riding my bikes. I'll tell her you said it was OK.
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Well, if Mike says it's ok.. that should settle it, right?