Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: PandionExpress on October 29, 2018, 10:56:43 PM
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So I did something stupid.
I was adjusting my valves. First time doing this. Looking for TDC. The video I was watching was using a chopstick to help find it. I missed that the hole the chopstick was down was the spark plug hole. So since the chopstick stuck out of the engine, I took my 9 inch wooden skewer and dropped it into one of the lower holes I side the valve cover. And it disappeared. So now there is a skewer floating inside my engine.
Of course I found TDC right after this by finally finding the D on the flywheel.
Oil is just decomposed wood anyway right...?
Andrew
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Oops :laugh: Well at least a Guzzi cylinder head is easy to remove .
Hmm , I guess you could attempt to set the wood on fire :shocked:
Dusty
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Run it 500 miles and change the oil and filter? :bike-037:
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You are joking?
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Andrew, put your bike up on the center stand, in high gear.
Take out both plugs.
Holding a drinking straw in the cylinder you'll be setting the valves on, rotate the tire until the piston is at the top.
Both pushrods should spin.
This is now TDC compression stroke.
Take the straw out of the cylinder :rolleyes:
Set both valves.
Repeat on the other cylinder.
Sunrise..Sunburn... Sunset...Repeat
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Remove oilpan and find skewer.
Brian
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Dusty is correct and has some experience with this although I contributed to him having some experince. :grin:
GliderJohn
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Dusty is correct and has some experience with this although I contributed to him having some experince. :grin:
GliderJohn
Interesting how he didn’t mention that
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Remove oilpan and find skewer.
Brian
He must have the non piston engine :thumb:
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Stop.
Step away.
Put down all tools and weapons of destruction.
Seek consultant on site with credentials.
Review "4 stroke engines" in a book or online
No gerfingerpokinn
If all else fails read directions
First, do no harm
"Stop- in the name of love...."
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I'm having a hard time visualizing where the 9" skewer disappeared. Maybe a picture would help..
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I never have liked the idea of sticking things down the plug 'ole
For me its
Plugs out and bike out of gear
Stick your thumb over the plug hole and pull the engine over with a socket on the front nut until air starts to hiss past your thumb
Shine a torch down said plug hole and while still pulling the engine over, watch the piston come up and stop
QED engine on TDC or as close as makes no difference given the valves are on the base circle part of the cam
Stand fast, I suspect that this 9" dowel has gone down the oil return bore from the head to the sump
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Ahh, grasshopper, when you can walk across the speedy dry without leaving a footprint & snatch these flat washers from my hand you have so much to learn! :weiner:
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And there's always the chance he's just messin' with us for Halloween.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/hfJPJL/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hfJPJL)
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My buddy did something similar. He used a pencil in the spark plug hole. (I'm grinning as I type this) There must have been just enough angle to put a bind on the pencil. "Snap!" I think it was Thanksgiving day... But he ended up calling the "dirt bike brigade!!", and we all ended up helping him take the head off and dig out the parts of the pencil, and metal banded eraser.
It's been years, but we never let him forget it. NEVER!
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There's even a smaller version of this
(https://thumb.ibb.co/efuvsf/vim-tools-other-shop-equipment-vimfc24-64-1000.jpg) (https://ibb.co/efuvsf)
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He must have put the skewer in the oil return hole .
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Spark plug hole...
Oil return..
Same difference..... :popcorn:
To the O.P. ....
I can jest loudly because I've done worse...much much worse....mistakes lead to understanding
Let's just say I felt your pain when my tap broke off in the threaded crank nose....all my friends won't let me forget that fubar-ian...
Luckily I got to learn all about tap extractors....like they exist. And they work
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Alas, that would be a great Halloween fools joke. Pic showing the hole (battery on camera was low, so no flash ) below. It was near the spark plug hole :) Kinda.
If i take off the oil sump, should i find it there? That seems easier than removing the cylinder head.
I ended up finding TDC by: Bike in neutral, using the bolt on the alternator to turn the engine clockwise, and watching the crankshaft through the peephole. When i saw the D (i was working on the right side), i jiggled the valve rockers, and they were loose. I did do this right? Right?
(https://thumb.ibb.co/fKftCf/Engine.png) (https://ibb.co/fKftCf)
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Chuck, didnt the tap extractor lead you to buy a V700?
Just sayin
TOMB
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If you are just learning how all this mechanical stuff is suppose to work it is easy to get things wrong. So in the interest of getting things right lets go over a couple of basics. I always check engine rotation by putting the bike in a high gear and with the plugs out, rotate the drive wheel in the forward direction noting the way the engine turns. That lets you move the engine in the right direction. Understanding the engine must rotate two full turns to complete all four cycles(intake, compression, power, exhaust) is a must. So the engines valves are adjusted when the piston is Top Dead Center on the compression stroke. The compression stroke is when the piston rises after the intake valve closes. If the exhaust valve is closing and intake opening you are on the wrong rotation. Verify the Pistons location with a straw or pencil(in the spark plug hole only)as the piston reaches Top Dead Center of the compression stroke. Yes, removing the oil pan will let the stick out of the engine. If you are unsure of that procedure be sure to read up on that first. Mike
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If the stick is in the cylinder then I can't fathom how you would get it out by removing the sump but I'm allways open to learning !
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I think it's either stuck in the oil return tube (an integral part of the barrel) or it's went into the sump
I'd check the barrel first, as I reckon that's the most likely
Get cylinder onto TDC (both valves will be closed and rockers able to rock) it's been explained already how to do it
Remove rockers and the support plate
Fish out bit of wood
Put the whole lot together again in the reverse order it came apart, making sure the same parts go to the same place from where they were first removed.
Remember to torque the head nuts down.
I reckon you will get away without doing anything to the head gasket or the like
If it has dropped all the way it's in the sump
Neither is a big deal to do and does not need any special knowledge or tools
As for stupid shit, I'm still doing it and if you don't believe me just look at my previous posts
PIA and don't let anybody who posts a smart ass reply get you down.
You've either done stupid or you take your bike to a shop (to let them do stupid and charge you 50-75 bucks an hour for the privilege.)
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The worst that could be required is to have to remove both the head and the sump to get "it" all out of there. Remove the sump first may be all that is needed. No big deal.
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Maybe chase it with another chop stick (anticipate double disaster...) with a bit of superglue on the tip? Or tubing? Hopefully it will touch/grab the other and be able to pull it out?
Good luck.
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Maybe chase it with another chop stick (anticipate double disaster...) with a bit of superglue on the tip? Or tubing? Hopefully it will touch/grab the other and be able to pull it out?
Good luck.
I don't know that the superglue would set though (it needs a tight, non-porous, anaerobic connection). You need something sticky enough to grab that will either definitely stay on the stick or you wouldn't worry about staying behind and I'm just not sure what that might be.
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If it's in the spark plug hole, use another chopstick with sticky stuff from a rodent glue trap to fish it out or yard the head off. If it went in an oil return hole it will be in the sump so pull the pan.
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Alas, that would be a great Halloween fools joke. Pic showing the hole (battery on camera was low, so no flash ) below. It was near the spark plug hole :) Kinda.
If i take off the oil sump, should i find it there? That seems easier than removing the cylinder head.
I ended up finding TDC by: Bike in neutral, using the bolt on the alternator to turn the engine clockwise, and watching the crankshaft through the peephole. When i saw the D (i was working on the right side), i jiggled the valve rockers, and they were loose. I did do this right? Right?
(https://thumb.ibb.co/fKftCf/Engine.png) (https://ibb.co/fKftCf)
Actually, yes.. you did. :smiley: And.. yes, you should be able to pull the oil pan (a great feature of the Guzzi engine) and take your skewer out. That should be the first thing you do.
Here's what you need to know.
(1) The Guzzi engine turns clockwise, viewed from the front.
(2) Take off the valve covers and remove the spark plugs.
(3) Take off the alternator cover.
(4) You did exactly right by using the bolt on the alternator to turn the engine clockwise.
(5) Do the left (S) as you are sitting on the bike facing forward :smiley: first.
(6) Turn the engine while watching the intake valve on the left cylinder. (The one nearest the carb or throttle body) As the intake valve opens and then closes, the piston will be coming up on compression ready to fire. *Then* put your skewer in the spark plug hole as it nears Top Dead Center. It doesn't have to be perfect, but if it is, you will see the S in the window.
(7) Adjust the valves on that cylinder. The method for feel used to be to put the feeler gauge in the middle of a big telephone book and pull it out.. but since there are no more telephone books.. :smiley: once you have it where you think it is right, try .001" bigger. It should not go or be very hard to insert. .001" smaller should have almost no "feel."
Got that? Kool.
(8) Turn the engine 3/4 of a turn clockwise, and the right cylinder will be at TDC ready to fire. You will see the D through the window if it is "perfect."
(9) Adjust those valves.
Easey Peasey.. and good on you for coming here and admitting your mistake before just trying to start the engine. It's a learning experience, and we've all done something..
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Yes, that hole in the picture is oil return and goes through to oil pan. Drop oil pan, same procedure as changing oil filter. You may want to change the filter while you have the pan down, depending when it was last changed.
18 bolts, 14 around the outer edge and 4 on the bottom in between the fining(2 towards front & 2 towards the rear). Drain oil first and get a new gasket.
Good Luck.
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Pull the sump. If you find the stick just take it out. If you don't, then find the orifice where the head oil drains back into the crankase. Find something similar sized and flexible (like a control cable???) and push it up the drain hole to push the stick out the top. There are many things I would try before taking the head off.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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18 bolts, 14 around the outer edge and 4 on the bottom in between the fining(2 towards front & 2 towards the rear). Drain oil first and get a new gasket.
Good Luck.
You probably won't need the gasket. But if you don't buy one for safety spare, then you will certainly break the existing one. NO CEMENT! Grease the gasket. Also add a hose clamp to the oil filter body.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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(https://thumb.ibb.co/fKftCf/Engine.png) (https://ibb.co/fKftCf)
What you have circled there is the oil return hole that goes to the sump. It just might have made it to the sump. Pull the sump and look.
Do not run the motor until you get it out of there. You may need to fish it out somehow.
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Here is a view up INSIDE your crankcase chamber. Stole the picture from the Internet. The oil drain holes for each cylinder are annotated. Remove the sump and you will surely see the chopstick protruding from one of these holes. You might have to snap it in several shorter pieces to get it out.
Don't let this deter you from using a chopstick to find TDC. Please DO NOT use a metal probe for such a task. Don't just lay the chopstick in there and turn the engine. It will jam and snap the wood inside the cylinder as in the pencil failure above. You need to hold the chopstick in one hand so that it moves freely within the cylinder while you gently rotate the engine.
Just be careful which hole you go poking about!
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
(https://thumb.ibb.co/bKetdL/oilhole.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bKetdL)
holes movies (https://movieplotholes.com/)
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Well, I did something like that on a car engine but it didn't turn out well because I was unaware of the foreign object............. ........OP, If you take a bright penlight and shine it into the hole can you see the stick? If you can see it and it's smaller than the "tunnel", you may be able to fetch it out with a wire loop in small diameter tubing, glue as mentioned or use a sharpened rod like a wheel spoke or metal knitting needle to poke it and pull it up...Or pull the sump like said above...Good luck
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You probably won't need the gasket. But if you don't buy one for safety spare, then you will certainly break the existing one. NO CEMENT! Grease the gasket. Also add a hose clamp to the oil filter body.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Grease? Or oil? I always thought you oiled one side of the gasket... correct me, please.
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Grease? Or oil? I always thought you oiled one side of the gasket... correct me, please.
YMMV. Grease, oil, butter, aioili, etc. I doubt it matters too much. You're just trying to keep the dry gasket from sticking to either the sump or the crankcase. Factory probably puts them in dry which is why they stick and break upon removal. OK if you're willing to go through the scraping routine every time you pull the sump. If lubricated, the gasket can survive numerous disassembly cycles. Just be sure to have a spare hanging on the shelf. That insures longevity to the one in usage.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Yak Fat .
Dusty
ps , I normally use a light smear of anti seize grease on almost any gasket .
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I thought from the subject line that maybe he got his engine aroused.........
Mark
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I did fish around in the hole with another skewer, and could not feel the lost one. So i don't see fishing it out from the top working. I will try the sump first.
A couple notes on the various comments. As i have read, there are two different ways to go about manipulating the valves to get TDC. Both of which have been mentioned: 1) bike on center stand in 5th gear, using the wheel to turn the engine; 2) bike in what ever position it likes (my interpretation) in neutral, using the alternator to turn the engine. I am assuming one versus the other is an age old debate, and arguably either is acceptable?
Sounds like it is not enough to just use the symbols (D & S) on the crankshaft. The chopstick down the hole is necessary to confirm TDC?
And sounds like i should adjust the left cylinder valves first? I started with the right, so i guess i need to redo this one after i get the left done?
Thanks for all the tips and tricks. Much appreciated.
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Note the direction of normal rotation. Always approach and stop at TDC from the normal direction of rotation. If you pass TDC inadvertently, don't just try to go backwards to reach TDC. There is slop in the drive system and you can impact accuracy. Either go around 720 and try again in the normal direction, or back up 180 to allow for slop and come at it again in the normal direction. I prefer a GENTLE wrench on the alternator. Don't be anal about the last degree or so.
The D&S are not necessarily spot on accurate, but probably close enough. If someone worked inside before then it is possible to put the flywheel back on in the wrong position.
It does not matter which cylinder you do first. However, note that you can NOT do both cylinders at the same time. You bring one to compression TDC and adjust those valves. Move to the other side, bring that to TDC compression and adjust those valves. Classic error of new users trying to adjust both cylinders without altering the engine rotation. Big noises!
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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If it's in the spark plug hole, use another chopstick with sticky stuff from a rodent glue trap to fish it out or yard the head off. If it went in an oil return hole it will be in the sump so pull the pan.
HELLO!!!!!! It is not in the spark plug hole! op SHOWED where he dropped it. In the return oil gallery.. GEEZE.
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I wanted to add:
Make sure you drain the oil BEFORE pulling the pan. It was mentioned already, just wanted to make sure you read it.
If you don't know which is the drain plug, look it up or ask first. Also make sure you get all the pan bolts out. The ones around the edge are easy to see, but there are 4 on the bottom of the pan that are easy to miss.
Good luck,
Tom
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Make sure you drain the oil BEFORE pulling the pan. It was mentioned already, just wanted to make sure you read it.
Haha. That would be classic. Thanks for the call out. I recently changed the oil (without making a mess), so will be able to find the right plug there. Now if only my sump gasket hadn't ripped when took it out of the box, or i would be able to reuse it.
pehayes - thank you, that information lines up great with me not having to redo everything.
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You might try probing for the end of the skewer with the eraser end of a pencil. If you feel the end, push the eraser over it and pull it out. If you feel the end but just push it farther down, then it will be in good view through the sump. If you don't feel it, it's already in good view through the sump.
This isn't a huge deal. I've generally got the alternator cover off when I do the valves, to get at the crank nut. I decided to mark TDC for both sides on the alternator, using white witness paint. Now I put nothing down the spark plug holes. I just get the index marks lined up with the valves relaxed and go about my business.
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Fewer words.
Brian
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I thought from the subject line that maybe he got his engine aroused.........
Mark
I was thinking the same thing the first time I read the subject line. :azn:
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GG - great minds...
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I've adjusted the valves on dozens of cars and bike engines and never needed to find tdc.....With valve or cam cover off , rotate engine in normal direction until the exhaust valve starts to open and adjust the intake on the cylinder.... Then rotate again until the intake cycles open and just before it closes, adjust the exhaust...This is the recommended procedure for high performance cams and OHV bikes do have quite a bit of cam.... Does a Guzzi have unusual cam profile that needs TDC for adjustment?
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In regards to: 1) bike on center stand in 5th gear, using the wheel to turn the engine; 2) bike in what ever position it likes (my interpretation) in neutral, using the alternator to turn the engine.
I did #1 the first time I adjusted the valves and it was quite the effort. Next time I did #2 at risk of breaking the bolt (after I had already broken one during alternator & rotor replacement a few months earlier) #2 seems easier and more accurate to get TDC, but I was sweating bullets as I expected the bolt so snap (it didn't) - I'd probably try #1 again next time to be safe.
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#1 is difficult for me. There are springs involved, and I need to keep "bumping" the wheel to get the engine to turn. On that last bump, it'll go past TDC. :grin:
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#1 is difficult for me. There are springs involved, and I need to keep "bumping" the wheel to get the engine to turn. On that last bump, it'll go past TDC. :grin:
Take both plugs out and bump the wheel. If you go a bit past, back bump. Takes about 15-30 seconds. Less time than it takes to remove the alt. Cover.
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If the stick is in the cylinder then I can't fathom how you would get it out by removing the sump but I'm allways open to learning !
The skewer wasn't put in the plu hole. It was put in the oil return side which goes straight to the oil pan.
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Do you have a powerful shop vac? If the chopstick just dropped in there I would pull the oil dipstick , to let air in, and rig a tube taped to a shop vac and try sucking it out of there. My guess is that it's still standing vertically at the bottom of the gallery. You may have to plug up the other galleries to increase the vacuum to the one your going after.
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Turn the bike upside down and shake?
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Turn the bike upside down and shake?
You jest, but I know somebody who did just that with a Brit bike to retrieve a nut that fell into the crankcase & he did get it back out
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Send in the termites!
(https://thumb.ibb.co/gtsSsf/termites.png) (https://ibb.co/gtsSsf)
discount double check (https://carinsuranceguru.org/useful-data-concerning-discount-double-check)
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You jest, but I know somebody who did just that with a Brit bike to retrieve a nut that fell into the crankcase & he did get it back out
I remember doing this more than once to drowned 2stroke bikes of my misspent youth.
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I know this is outside the box but a possible.
A Violyn builder and repair person has tools especially designed to place a sound post (!small wooden Dow rod) inside the instrument through a small hole. He will use a special light on a flexible stem and tools with several angles and a sharpened special designed point to secure the Dow. Just a possibility. Good luck.
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I remember doing this more than once to drowned 2stroke bikes of my misspent youth.
Yeah, me too.. :grin:
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HELLO!!!!!! It is not in the spark plug hole! op SHOWED where he dropped it. In the return oil gallery.. GEEZE.
HELLO!!!! Ever heard of a device that doesn't have good enough resolution on pictures when away from base that does not have the resolution to observe some details? Get out in the world and maybe you can experience such strange things!GEEZE.
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I know this is outside the box but a possible.
A Violyn builder and repair person has tools especially designed to place a sound post (!small wooden Dow rod) inside the instrument through a small hole. He will use a special light on a flexible stem and tools with several angles and a sharpened special designed point to secure the Dow. Just a possibility. Good luck.
You can get him to do a tune up at the same time :weiner:
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By Spring you'll have a forest in your garage. :shocked:
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Waiting for a new oil sump gasket to arrive. Will provide an update soon.
Cheers,
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I, too, have broken the end of a chopstick in there - that's why I now prefer plastic drinking straws for the job. If (& when) they get pinched, it's no big deal. You CAN use a chopstick, but gingerly. It's the angle of the dangle that'll cause grief.
Luck, Pando - here's hoping your skewer just falls out.
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When you find TDC, take a bit of paint and mark the flywheel so it is easy to see. Never phart with jamming things in the cylinder again.
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I have 2 cents to give. Another dowel same size with a needle stuck in the end. Jam it into the lost one and pull it out. Its like fishin. Whatever you do let us know!!
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HELLO!!!! Ever heard of a device that doesn't have good enough resolution on pictures when away from base that does not have the resolution to observe some details? Get out in the world and maybe you can experience such strange things!GEEZE.
NO
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sorry I blew up like that, but I could not see the the arrow, that's why I wrote my response like I did, to cover both, thinking most would be clever enough that I wouldn't have to explain it further. :smiley:
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I got another one -- get a foot of hollow metal tube, with an ID larger than the dowel and an OD small enough to fit in the hole. Pack it with grease. Run it down the hole over the end of the dowel.
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I have 2 cents to give. Another dowel same size with a needle stuck in the end. Jam it into the lost one and pull it out. Its like fishin. Whatever you do let us know!!
Long drill bit?
And, yeah, I've done much dumber things. Probably today.
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How about a shop vac with 1/2 inch pipe ducted to end of hose.
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You can get him to do a tune up at the same time :weiner:
Priceless!!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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If the stick is in the cylinder then I can't fathom how you would get it out by removing the sump but I'm allways open to learning !
Me too!
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This isn't a huge deal. I've generally got the alternator cover off when I do the valves, to get at the crank nut. I decided to mark TDC for both sides on the alternator, using white witness paint. Now I put nothing down the spark plug holes. I just get the index marks lined up with the valves relaxed and go about my business.
Me too, though to be clear I always pull the spark plugs to release engine compression too.
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Me too, though to be clear I always pull the spark plugs to release engine compression too.
:grin: I just assumed everyone would do that. Maybe they don't.
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:grin: I just assumed everyone would do that. Maybe they don't.
I think threads like this teach us not to assume!
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I think threads like this teach us not to assume!
They can TRY to turn the engine without the plug off...go ahead, you won't get too far...
as for assume....You assume, you will make an ASS out of U & ME :evil:
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In Australia there's a term used in common vernacular as " giving it some stick"..
It's wheeled out when you are suggesting that the operator avail him (or her) self, of what the upper end of the performance spectrum has to offer, as in thrash the guts out of it.
Anyway..
I might retire that one, it doesn't seem as funny any more.
BTW. Have you considered changing your name to Panadol Express...?
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IN Wisconsin, it's "Give 'er cobs" , meaning to stoke the boiler with corn cobs for a quick heat, producing instant power
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IN Wisconsin, it's "Give 'er cobs" , meaning to stoke the boiler with corn cobs for a quick heat, producing instant power
Never have heard that one.. :grin: We have "Balls out.." for the governor balls on a steam engine being out from centrifugal force.
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I bring my flywheel around using the rear wheel. As I see TDC "D" coming around on compression stroke I then use a flat head screwdriver and gently move the flywheel with the screwdriver. Gotta us TDC after intake closes and engine is on compression stroke. I made the mistake of setting my valves on the "other" TDC and ended up with clacking loose valves. It ain't the same TDC. I started it and it sounded like it was coming apart the valve lash was that loose. I was lucky the the push rods didn't slide off the valve cam and do damage.
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Lots of chatter.......... did the OP resolve the issue? confirm he dropped the skewer in the oil drain hole, drop the sump to find it? Or are people just rambling with basic BS?
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Or are people just rambling with basic BS?
Probably.... while :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: for the OP to tell us whether he succeeded. :grin:
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The easy way to get that sucker out is to take out the dipstick and fill the sump with acetylene and oxygen. Then lite it off, the momentary increase in pressure will make the stick pop right out, easy as you please.
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Probably.... while :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: for the OP to tell us whether he succeeded. :grin:
Said he ordered the pan gasket the other day. Shirley, he didn't order it from a dealer or something.. (?) That might take 6 weeks.
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good luck with the chopstick.
For service you have to drop the pan and to remove oil filter. And order the gaskets mail order, you'll likely need them, sump and valve covers.
Best way to find TDC is by checking the timing marks on the fly wheel and rotating the alternator under the front cover. Here's a hint, once you find the D mark on the flywheel, mark the alternator at 12 o'clock with a marker. That way you'll quickly know when you are at TDC on the right side. If the valve is tight, then you're on exhaust stroke so take it another 360 and do the above. Then rotate a complete turn and then to the 3 o'clock position and you're TDC on S side.
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Said he ordered the pan gasket the other day. Shirley, he didn't order it from a dealer or something.. (?) That might take 6 weeks.
Maybe I am crazy and lucky but I have reused pan gaskets many times over without a drop of oil seeping out.
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I got another one -- get a foot of hollow metal tube, with an ID larger than the dowel and an OD small enough to fit in the hole. Pack it with grease. Run it down the hole over the end of the dowel.
Hydraulic engineering at it's finest ... :thumb:
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Never have heard that one.. :grin: We have "Balls out.." for the governor balls on a steam engine being out from centrifugal force.
Pre computers....sailin g transport vessels had compasses that were adjusted to the magnetism surrounding them on the boat to give correct readings by adjusting two huge metal balls 180 degrees apart surrounding the compass. These corrected for any magnetism the boat was putting out.
"Don't touch the navigators balls...." Once the compass was compensated
FYI....that's also why those little handlebar compasses rarely tell the truth...they are being overwhelmed by the metal in the bike...
Today there is an app for that and sailing compasses are found in antique shops.
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Then there is "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey.." :grin:
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Maybe I am crazy and lucky but I have reused pan gaskets many times over without a drop of oil seeping out.
I could count the times I've had to replace pan gaskets on one hand.. valve cover gaskets a little more often, but not many of those, either.
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I could count the times I've had to replace pan gaskets on one hand.. valve cover gaskets a little more often, but not many of those, either.
Same here.....
:-)
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Good news! I dropped the dump and sure enough, my skewer was sitting right there. So that was great. Replaced the old gasket, since that ripped before and I was able to make it work. Got my valves adjusted. Used my stick. In the right hole.
Now the bad news.
Put the valve covers back on. One of the screws just keeps on spinning. Pull it out, shards of metal from the threats. Shoot.
Suggestions?
Andrew
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Good news! I dropped the dump and sure enough, my skewer was sitting right there. So that was great. Replaced the old gasket, since that ripped before and I was able to make it work. Got my valves adjusted. Used my stick. In the right hole.
Now the bad news.
Put the valve covers back on. One of the screws just keeps on spinning. Pull it out, shards of metal from the threats. Shoot.
Suggestions?
Yep , the proper thread insert will fix that problem . Some folks prefer the *heli coil* type , some prefer the *time sert* brand . Either way , not hard to fix . You tube is your friend .
Dusty
Andrew
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Good news! I dropped the dump and sure enough, my skewer was sitting right there. So that was great. Replaced the old gasket, since that ripped before and I was able to make it work. Got my valves adjusted. Used my stick. In the right hole.
Now the bad news.
Put the valve covers back on. One of the screws just keeps on spinning. Pull it out, shards of metal from the threats. Shoot.
Suggestions?
Heli coil, any auto parts supplier
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Wat Dusty said. All is not lost. Any questions?? Ask before beginning.
"Moto Guzzi.. making mechanics out of riders since 1921."
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Heli coil, any auto parts supplier
:thumb:
6 mm It will be better than original
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O thank goodness. I figured there had to be something. Or maybe I was hoping there had to be something.
The screw hole doesn't exit into the engine does it? Thinking about the shavings.
Thanks again
Andrew
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No , it doesn't go thru .
Dusty
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This is NOT a real stress location so a Helicoil will be just fine. Just make sure you get it started perfectly 'square' to the mating surface. Perhaps make some sort of a drilling/tapping guide block to ensure the squareness. Don't use a lot of torque on the valve cover or oil sump bolts. Just slightly more than hand tight. 6X1 is quite easy to strip out of aluminum.
Congrats on finding the wayward wood.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Generally, the thread repair kits can be had with the correct drill bit, the correct tap, and several inserts. Cover as much as possible to avoid getting metal shavings inside the engine. For added warm fuzzy feeling, get someone to hold a vacuum right there to suck up the shavings as you drill.
Others may say it's not a big deal, but I would rather take a few precautions than have a shaving get somewhere that might do damage.
John Henry
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No offense intended, but you may be better off paying a pro to do this. You're on strike 2 ;-)
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Ahh, he'll be alright. He persevered and got the valves adjusted. :smiley: This will just be another learning experience..
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Good to see the wood has been removed before it sprouted.
You persevered through the face of the adversity (and an eclectic range of advice) :grin: :thumb:
I am sure you will sort the latest problem.
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The voice of constructive laziness here - first off, put it together and ride it.
If it doesn't leak, take your time to getting around to fixing it.
:evil:
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For a light duty fix, until you can do it right with a helicoil, there is a quick way to put some threads back in the hole.
First clean the screw and hole thoroughly, with thinner or alcohol to clean and remove all oil residue. Second coat the screw threads with wax. Use a candle flame to get all the extra wax to drip off, turning the screw to get it to run and drip off. When finished, the screw should have a very light coat of wax covering all the threads. Next mix up some JB Weld and swab the hole, a Q-tip works well for this. Put the screw in the hole, turning it like you were screwing it in until it is all the way in, a little further than the assembled screw depth. Let it set over night then assemble the cover making sure you don't over-torque the screw.
This repair lasted several months till is was repaired over the winter.
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you could use the wood you got out of the sump to fill the damaged thread hole then just use a wood screw. Only kidding, keep at it you will get there, we've all been there.
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which hole is it? some of the holes you can get away with just using a longer bolt. some you can see the end of the hole where it goes thru the fins and you can run a tap thru it and use a longer bolt.
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For a light duty fix, until you can do it right with a helicoil, there is a quick way to put some threads back in the hole.
First clean the screw and hole thoroughly, with thinner or alcohol to clean and remove all oil residue. Second coat the screw threads with wax. Use a candle flame to get all the extra wax to drip off, turning the screw to get it to run and drip off. When finished, the screw should have a very light coat of wax covering all the threads. Next mix up some JB Weld and swab the hole, a Q-tip works well for this. Put the screw in the hole, turning it like you were screwing it in until it is all the way in, a little further than the assembled screw depth. Let it set over night then assemble the cover making sure you don't over-torque the screw.
This repair lasted several months till is was repaired over the winter.
There is a loctite product made just for that, and it could be permanent. (until its not)
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you could use the wood you got out of the sump to fill the damaged thread hole then just use a wood screw. Only kidding, keep at it you will get there, we've all been there.
That was an old trick my late father-in-law would do, shove in a matchstick and tighten the screw. IIRC, it only works for wood when coupled with some Elmer's glue.
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There is a loctite product made just for that, and it could be permanent. (until its not)
Everything called for here was available at the CVS, or Walgreens, next door to the hotel. It all started with a low side that cracked the stator cover on the engine and was leaking oil. JB Weld fixed the cracked cover also.
Saved a days riding in the Ozarks and got him home 250 miles to OKC. He kept riding the bike the rest of the season before fixing it all correctly.
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Ahh, well Ivan going to blame the guy who owned the bike before me for this one. :) Bolts were stuck good when i took them off. I'm going to have someone who has rethreaded help me with this anyway.
Cheers
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Might as well add to this thread. I too got carried away with a chopstick (I HAVE done this before, but was careless this time around). About 1.5 inches of wood were chopped off, down through the spark plug hole.
Question is - do I need to fish it out, or is that small enough to be ‘no big deal/ get it out next time the sump is dropped’? (does it even go to the sump or doesn’t it just stick around in the cylinder with the piston below?
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I have pulled out wood, took heads off.
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I have pulled out wood, took heads off.
Nah! Let it burn. It ain't gonna last long. :evil:
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The acetylene and oxygen trick might over inflate your engine cases. Not recommended.
This whole problem is simple to fix. leave the hole open and get a friend to help you turn the bike upside down and shake the stuff out.
In the future don't poke things into holes that should not be penetrated.
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Sage advice there Jim. :bow: :grin:
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Dirk,
Seemingly no one is willing to advise you on your mistake. If you don't get the stick out of the combustion chamber, it will bounce around until it burns up or gets pulverized. It has no place to go. I would definitely get it out, even if it meant removing the head.
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Fish it out. I might try seeing it first with a twelve dollar scope to get an idea of it's exact location. Maybe a rubber hose with double sided tape on the end? I have a nice pair of alligator style (SE SPAF-5.5 5-1/2" Stainless Steel Alligator Forceps,Amazon 14 dollars) forceps like those that reach into tight spots. This is an opportunity to put a new tool or two into your box. Mike
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As above or try a vacuum cleaner. And make sure you get the valves open before using the vacuum.