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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: keuka4884 on November 21, 2018, 10:38:58 AM
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Here we go. A 3D printed electric motorcycle is just around the corner. My oh my. Airless tires and super light weight. What will they think of next.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/3d-printed-motorcycle-is-like-nothing-youve-ever-seen-yet
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Here we go. A 3D printed electric motorcycle is just around the corner. My oh my. Airless tires and super light weight. What will they think of next.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/3d-printed-motorcycle-is-like-nothing-youve-ever-seen-yet
Next up - 3D printed personal jet packs and 3D printed backyard fusion reactors ....
Lannis
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The codger in me says "bleh".
But mostly, I gotta say, this is pretty damn cool.
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I was watching an episode of Leno's garage the other day. A chap had a car that used quite a few 3D printed parts. It's coming people..
Divergent 3D Blade:
As the price of 3D printing becomes more inexpensive and accessible, more companies are investing in the technology. Divergent 3D is one of those companies, and to show the world what it's got, it's created the Blade: A 700-horsepower, mid-engined 3D printed supercar.
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/screen-shot-2017-06-26-at-2-42-04-pm-1498502552.png?crop=0.944xw:1.00xh;0.0209xw,0&resize=980:*)
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3D print work in progress...tail light lens for Lemans IV
:)
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I managed various parts in a high-tech metal fabrication factory for 30 years. There are lots of manufacturing techniques used in today's world to make complex things.
Vacuum molding. Extrusion. CNC machining. Carbon Fiber layup. Robotic workcells. Metal-Oxide Display.
Order systems linked to CAD systems linked to CAM systems that feed a manufacturing workcell with data and actually make a part to customer specs.
Hot metal spraying. Waterjet cutting.
These things have been around for years. Why is it a big deal if a car manufacturer uses "3D printing" to produce plastic body panels and aluminum chassis extrusions, instead of vacuum layup and an automated machining workcell where you feed raw aluminum into one end, pick the proper machining program, and remove a chassis beam from the other?
People act like you'll be able to replace your black and color ink cartridges in your HP 4440 desktop with a fiberglass and an aluminum cartridge and print off a Ferrari in your study ...
Why the "It's Coming!" thing?
Lannis
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Remember when every bike rag blathered on about parts being CNC milled from billet aluminum? Yeah...it’s like that with 3D printing.
I think it’s cool technology but to me, where it’s most interesting is in very large steel pieces that can be organically shaped. The MX3D bridge in Amsterdam is an example.
https://mx3d.com/projects/bridge-2/
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A big corporation can have anything made, so that's not such a big deal except for really complex shapes maybe. But for us 'little guys' it's a big deal. My machinist showed me a part he was working on, a complex shape with bores for two shafts intersecting at right angles. A customer of his owns a late 20s or early 30s Durant and the distributor pot-metal mount was worn out and unrepairable. He'd had an employee make the drawings for the part and then got it 3-D printed in stainless. It's actually stainless and bronze, and they cost him $75 each for four of them. And then he had the bores machined so they fit properly.
It's coming to the point where we could have parts made that would otherwise be prohibitively expensive, and possibly of better quality than OEM.
You're right, Lannis - advertising that the car was made with 3-D parts is advertising hype. Big deal.
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3D printing is at about the same stage as CNC machining was in the late 70s/early 80s. It will be *the* manufacturing method, eventually.. IMHO.
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3D printing is at about the same stage as CNC machining was in the late 70s/early 80s. It will be *the* manufacturing method, eventually.. IMHO.
Yes, I'm sure it might be.
But (and I think I speak for many) I'm not going to be CNC machining anything in my shop, I'm not going to buy a EDM spark erosion machine for shaping anything, and I'm not going to buy a "3D Printing" machine that will be capable of making a magneto housing for my 1916 Humbly-Pudge Cannonball-Rally machine.
Someone else is going to own those machines, just like they do today. Too expensive for a regular guy not in the business.
Now, IF there's a market for people to be able to duplicate metal parts (for old vintage machines) or plastic parts (for newer collector items like 80s Laverdas) where we've run out of parts bikes and the bits are just unobtanium, but someone has a service now where they can pour iron filings into one end, load up a laser-scanned file from an original part, and 3-D print me a part for my 100-year-old bike, then that would be something.
But how much of a market is there for that? It might be convenient, but it just doesn't sound like a revolutionary world-changer to me. It's just another clever manufacturing technique that "the man behind the curtain" is using ... and there are already thousands of those ....
Lannis
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Lannis got me thinking about 3D printing and its future.
Here's a very interesting read from Forbes about 3D printing:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/01/23/the-future-of-3-d-printing/#3393631c65f6 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/01/23/the-future-of-3-d-printing/#3393631c65f6)
I know there are guys already printing their own bike parts (soft parts), so it's not totally out of reach for some parts. Too bad I can't print up a bunch of Breva dash boards!!!!
I made the mistake(?) of researching a company that does 3D printing for....almost whatever you want. I had a simple bicycle head badge that I was thinking about getting produced. In about one hour I had the design figured out to spec and just had to figure out what materials I wanted it to be printed in. Plastics, metals, rubbers.... It was pretty inexpensive actually.
With that said, there's always going to be something more special about a handmade part (pieces of art really).
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Lannis got me thinking about 3D printing and its future.
Here's a very interesting read from Forbes about 3D printing:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/01/23/the-future-of-3-d-printing/#3393631c65f6 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/01/23/the-future-of-3-d-printing/#3393631c65f6)
Thanks for the link. I did read it (magic of the Internet), and then did a little reading on 3-D printing guy Avi Reichental (more magic of the Internet; it doesn't throw anything away!).
He's way over the top in his predictions of when and how 3-D printing will be used and how it will affect things. Of course, he's owned dozens of 3-D printing-associated companies, and he's really really good at pumping the stock of them. If you go back and look at his predictions from 2009, 2014, etc, and project his "hit rate" forward, well ...
Three years ago, he predicted that within 2 years, every home in the country would have one or more 3-D printers at home, printing out meals, lampshades, dog bones, etc.
I'll stay tuned and maintain a healthy skepticism.
Lannis
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What I find amazing is the 3D scanners that can 'map' something so it can be 3D printed.
My machinist's son who worked for Tektronix for a bit and then Microsoft, learned how to build a 3D printer. The machinist was telling me about visiting his son and seeing this dusty microwave looking thing in the corner - the 3D printer. Just another bit of junk cluttering the garage.
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"A" major manufacturing technique -- yes, I think it will be.
"The" major manufacturing technique -- probably not. It's inherently a one-at-a-time process.
Other technologies will probably still be more efficient for mass production.
I think it is going to be pretty analogous to how regular printing already works.
If you need one or two copies of something, you print them out individually on a printer.
If you need a couple thousand copies of something, you use an offset press or some such.
I think it will be a while yet before 3D printers that make parts of metal or other durable materials are cheap enough for very many individuals to own.
I do already know a dozen or more people who have 3D printers for plastic parts, though.
One of the niches I do see for them is for remote places; at some point it will be cheaper, and much more convenient, to make a part locally than to order it from somewhere.
Imagine, say, an African village. The village probably already has one or two cellphones/satellite phones, because that's cheaper than building local communications infrastructure. They don't need them for everyone in the village, but having a village phone is worthwhile.
I can see it being worthwhile in the not-too distant future for the village to be able to buy a 3D metal printer, and a couple bags of metal powder, and be able to make/fix things for the whole village. To take one example, a couple decades ago, the UN and other aid agencies went on a spree to try to help poor villages be able to feed themselves better, and got tractors for a bunch of them. This was great for a while, but eventually the tractors needed parts and repair, and those were not readily available, and those (relatively) expensive tractors became useless. If such a village had access to a single 3D printer of durable parts, they could download the specs on the village phone, and keep their tractor running indefinitely, and thereby raise the standard of living of the whole village.
PhilB
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I know there are guys already printing their own bike parts (soft parts), so it's not totally out of reach for some parts. Too bad I can't print up a bunch of Breva dash boards!!!!
if you have the STL files it can be done
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All I can say is I work for one of the largest CD printing companies in the world and it's much more than hype....! I see work go out everyday from the most simple of things home inventors are working on to innovations in the medical and dental industry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRmoowIN8aY&list=RDQMYUp9ATM12Xo&start_radio=1
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All I can say is I work for one of the largest CD printing companies in the world and it's much more than hype....! I see work go out everyday from the most simple of things home inventors are working on to innovations in the medical and dental industry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRmoowIN8aY&list=RDQMYUp9ATM12Xo&start_radio=1
I know that it's a real thing, and good on yer for working in an industry that "makes things" and has a future ... I'm just saying that I don't think that it's going to live up to the World Changing, Never Be The Same Again, 3-D Printed Car Made At Home hype that the popular press is hyperventilating over .....
But best of luck ... if it opens opportunities and makes things more efficient, then Away We Go!
Lannis
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He'd had an employee make the drawings for the part and then got it 3-D printed in stainless. It's actually stainless and bronze, and they cost him $75 each for four of them. And then he had the bores machined so they fit properly.
How does one "print" in steel or bronze? Do the nozzles spray molten metal?
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How does one "print" in steel or bronze? Do the nozzles spray molten metal?
As you might expect, the equipment and processes for printing metal are capital intensive and not withing the grasp of hobbyist.
One method from my very generalized understanding;
A highly controlled environment is maintained to print within, including a high vacuum, or shield gas flooding and temperature controls.
Powdered metal is spread in an even and very thin layer across the 'build platform'. A servo controlled laser selectively melts (sinters) the powder joining those areas together and to the previously sintered part areas. The build platform is lowered incrementally. A fresh layer of metal powder is dispensed. Rinse and repeat until the part or assembly is completed.
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Here's a link describing the many types of 3D printing with metal. https://3dprinting.com/metal/types-of-metal-3d-printing/ (https://3dprinting.com/metal/types-of-metal-3d-printing/)
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Here's how I was told it works. The plastic is embedded with sintered stainless. The 3D printer builds the part - no welding or anything like that. Just the regular 3D plastic process. I think I've forgotten some of the process, so don't shoot me if I got it wrong. I sort of recall that the part was then placed in an oven and the plastic baked out of it. Then it was baked again in a container with sintered bronze at high temps and pressure and the bronze bonded with all of the stainless and bound them all together.
I've probably gotten it wrong or left something out, but I held the parts and know they were substantial, not wimpy at all. And the machinist said they weren't easy to machine - bits dulled quickly cutting the stuff.
After reading through the reference rdbandkab posted, I sort of recall that the part after being 3D printed was subjected to ultraviolet light which somehow eliminated the plastic. I'll have to have the process explained to me again and get back to you.
Another thing - I know another guy in Los Angeles who works in the 3D printer industry and has several himself. He said one of his printers is on the space station. If they need some pliers and don't have any, they print them up.
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A couple of weeks ago I was in the UK centre of excellence for 3D printing supported by HM Government
Hopefully the company I work for will see the light and and properly engage with it.
I'm not sure it will completely see off CNC machining as (currently) it can't achieve the same surface finish as milling or turning.
One of the advantages though is that you need little in the way of fixtures as it can be self supporting
Terrific technology though
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Imagine being able to 'print' a Mila Jovovich (sp) in your own liing room (ala The Fifth Element).
My oh my. The mind boggles.
G
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Not keen on the styling, and, as others have said 3D printing is not new, but its cool for marketing purposes.
Good to see the technology moving on though.... :wink: