Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: pmillar on November 21, 2018, 11:49:43 AM
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I never heard of this bike but have to say it's not bad looking (I wonder why...)
https://toledo.craigslist.org/mcd/d/new-2017-buccaneer-cafe/6730535654.html (https://toledo.craigslist.org/mcd/d/new-2017-buccaneer-cafe/6730535654.html)
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Shame, SHAME...
There comes a point where a product is such a blatant (and cheap) copy that it really shouldn't be allowed on the market.
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I have seen this brand mostly as scooter...
Interesting seeing it here in US as a cafe racer...
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Moto up in Madison has one. Use the handy search feature and enter " SSR Buccaneer" for all of the discussions on this bike.
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A Revzilla review:
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2018-ssr-buccaneer-cafe-and-classic-first-ride-motorcycle-review (https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2018-ssr-buccaneer-cafe-and-classic-first-ride-motorcycle-review)
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It's Just as Good as a Moto Morini 3-1/2, I'm sure.
The factory guy says it won't be a "piece of crap" like the other Chinese motorcycles out there. Now THERE'S some good objective data for you!
Lannis
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Yeah, I've got one and I haven't really ridden either of my Guzzis since I picked it up in July!
Designed originally by Oberdan Bezzi (I'm pretty sure) and then aesthetically rescued by Massimo Tartarini of Italjet, it's certainly strongly influenced by the Guzzi, but is no blatant copy. In my eyes it's more attractive.
The build quality is not up to Guzzi standards (and that wouldn't be saying so much if it were). But the components are pretty good, with German ECU, fuel injection, Japanese relays, halogen and LED lighting, and excellent brakes. One nice thing is its Yamaha 250 v-twin engine clone -- it's an exact copy, as far as I can tell, so I can imagine the day when I might swap in a carbureted, higher power example.
As the NY Times series says this week, it's beginning to look like a world "Built by China." Enjoy it, I say.
Moto
P.S. That $2,999 price is a steal, unless there are lots of additional dealer charges. The list price is now $3,599, plus a $299 destination charge, plus whatever a dealer can get out of you before you can get it out of his door.
M.
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Well, I never! Somebody outta box their Buccaneers.... :evil: Nifty looking little tiddler.
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When others are being accused of copying you, and you are no longer being accused of copying others (e.g. no more telelever emulators) you have made progress towards building a sustainable product line.
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We buy, sell, and trade new and used motorcycles, scooters, mopeds, ATV's, UTV's, and guns. Call Larry or Teresa with any questions @ 419-682-1108 Mon-Fri 9am-5pm and Sat 9am-12. Price listed above does not include tax, title, freight, prep, and doc fees. We've been in business over 25 years!
About the same dealer network! :thumb:
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These seem to appear here every few months. They look fine. Based on a Virago clone engine, should be cool to play with.
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(https://thumb.ibb.co/mizyxA/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mizyxA)
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Here's a new development. Italjet
is seems to be back in the moto business in Italy, instead of selling only e-bikes there. They have a new iteration of the Buccaneer called the Italjet Caffeina on their Italian web site:
(https://thumb.ibb.co/cMcn9q/ITALJET-Caffeina-2018-View-plus-2-729x500.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cMcn9q)
www.italjet.com/moto/italjet-moto-caffeina/]https://www.italjet.com/moto/italjet-moto-caffeina/[/url]
This one has ABS! I doubt there is any immediate prospect of availability in the U.S.
EDIT: It also has a new, upside down fork.
Moto
P.S. I think they're indicating the Burgundy colored seat is leather.
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If you are interested in the 250cc café racer check out this one: $1995 delivered
https://www.cscmotorcycles.com/default.asp?page=xNewInventoryDetail&id=5526002&p=1&s=Year&d=D&t=new&fr=xNewInventory
I have a dual sport with this engine - it's great around town, and in the woods.
They have other models too.
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The build quality is not up to Guzzi standards (and that wouldn't be saying so much if it were).M.
So you think a V7 III is not up to standard in its build quality to - let´s say - a new Triumph Bonneville? Perhaps you should take a look on the real bike.
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It's all too easy to dismiss lower priced bikes coming out of India, China or Thailand. I guess that's natural when you pay almost $10K for a machine and someone comes along and offers a similar machine for one third the price. Nevertheless, those third world countries can produce a good product and do so at a lower cost than the US, UK, Germany or Italy. I think you have to actually look at the machine and determine if it's a POS or just a good deal. Last week I was in Bangkok and saw a Triumph (motorcycle) assembly plant. Ducati has some bikes made in China now. HD and BMW are building bikes in India. The 650 Royal Enfield actually looks pretty good in person. My point is that our world is changing pretty quickly. The bike OP mentioned is not my cup of tea but I cannot dismiss it just because it costs less than my V7.
It is also worth noting that the OTD price is much more than what it cost to make the machine. Companies like Guzzi have a lot of overhead to cover and we all know who ultimately foots that bill....the customer. Small companies like CSC can bypass most of that overhead.
Peter Y.
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I guess that's natural when you pay almost $10K for a machine and someone comes along and offers a similar machine for one third the price.
Similar? Well, it has two wheels and an V-twin (talking about the SSR, not the CSC), and is similar in styling (and even frame color in the case of the red frame/white one). But, chain vs. shaft drive, one third the displacement, and barely more than one third the power. So, definitely not a fair price comparison.
The RE 650's are a much more fair comparison. They're a 2/3 to 3/4 the price of the V7, and offer similar power and weight (still chain vs. shaft).
The RE need to be no more than 3/4 the price of the V7 or comparable Triumphs, at least while they're still a relatively unknown to most buyers outside of Asia.
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Jas — do you own all of those motorcycles today, or is that a historical list. Just curious.
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Here's a new development. Italjet is seems to be back in the moto business in Italy, instead of selling only e-bikes there. They have a new iteration of the Buccaneer called the Italjet Caffeina on their Italian web site:
(https://thumb.ibb.co/cMcn9q/ITALJET-Caffeina-2018-View-plus-2-729x500.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cMcn9q)
www.italjet.com/moto/italjet-moto-caffeina/]https://www.italjet.com/moto/italjet-moto-caffeina/[/url]
This one has ABS! I doubt there is any immediate prospect of availability in the U.S.
EDIT: It also has a new, upside down fork.
Moto
P.S. I think they're indicating the Burgundy colored seat is leather.
If there was ever a "Parts Bin" looking bike... THAT'S IT!!!
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Jas — do you own all of those motorcycles today, or is that a historical list. Just curious.
Yes, these are all currently in my garage, all running,licensed and insured except the R100S (which runs, but, is currently apart, and is in queue to be completed over the winter).
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Yes, these are all currently in my garage, all running,licensed and insured except the R100S (which runs, but, is currently apart, and is in queue to be completed over the winter).
Nice…
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A couple of reactions to some recent posts about these bikes...
As a Griso and a Buccaneer 250i owner, I noticed a couple of factory assembly problems they had in common; lack of grease in the suspension bearings comes to mind. The Buccaneer overall is well-built, with no other complaints from me except the poor application of the striping tape in a spot where it is hidden by the seat. Of course, the use of tape itself is sub-standard compared to Guzzis. I was only thinking of the continuing grease-pot problem when I dissed Guzzi's "build quality."
As for the new styling of the Caffeina, I can't say I like it, and I have to say it made me question my previous high opinion of Massimo Tartarini's taste. But it doesn't appear to be a parts-bin special, since I don't see parts from other bikes on it. I think instead it is a design reminiscent of Italjet's (Tartarini's) own e-bikes in its use of draped leather accessories, a too-small headlamp, and maybe other style elements. Here is an Italjet e-bike that has those commonalities:
(https://i.ibb.co/kBrGdTd/image.png) (https://ibb.co/kBrGdTd)</br>
As I mentioned, the Caffeina is a substantial upgrade on my version, with ABS and upside-down fork. All the new parts that further differentiate it from my bike appear to be custom designed for it, with the exception of things like the headlamp, which might be a generic product.
It's undeniable that you get less in a Buccaneer than you do in a Guzzi V7, as Jas67 itemized. But I wanted less, once I looked into it. No need to criticize it for what it doesn't pretend to offer (or, perhaps, burden you with), and no need to think of it as a direct competitor. It's a distinctive, previously beautiful (Caffeina version aside), enjoyable motorcycle in its own right, that never makes me wish I'd taken my Griso, at least so far. (Next summer I expect to use the Griso on a long trip, but am also contemplating taking the Buccaneer instead.)
Moto
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I guess that's natural when you pay almost $10K for a machine and someone comes along and offers a similar machine for one third the price. ....
Peter Y.
As a responsible person, you have to ask yourself "WHY does it cost 1/3 of the price? How do they do it?"
We already do enough of throwing our friends and neighbors who own local businesses under the bus when a big-box store comes to town and undercuts their pricing, not thinking about "How are they doing this?" We just get blinded by "cheap" and don't care anymore.
If you can honestly look the "Why" and the "How" in the face, and support that, and be part of it in good conscience, then go for it ... Many people don't WANT to know, or don't care ....
Lannis
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Or, if you are really set on 250cc but are feeling nativist, you can go "made in the usa" (except for the engine) for just about twice as much:
(https://i.ibb.co/bXx5T5C/Janus-Motorcycles-Studio-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXx5T5C)
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As a responsible person, you have to ask yourself "WHY does it cost 1/3 of the price? How do they do it?"
We already do enough of throwing our friends and neighbors who own local businesses under the bus when a big-box store comes to town and undercuts their pricing, not thinking about "How are they doing this?" We just get blinded by "cheap" and don't care anymore.
If you can honestly look the "Why" and the "How" in the face, and support that, and be part of it in good conscience, then go for it ... Many people don't WANT to know, or don't care ....
Lannis
Well said Lannis :bow:
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Or, if you are really set on 250cc but are feeling nativist, you can go "made in the usa" (except for the engine) for just about twice as much:
(https://i.ibb.co/bXx5T5C/Janus-Motorcycles-Studio-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXx5T5C)
If I had stupid money I would be riding one every day. Maybe a Gryffin.
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I thought we had decided these are more like Moto Morini and not a Guzzi ????
Dusty
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It's undeniable that you get less in a Buccaneer than you do in a Guzzi V7, as Jas67 itemized. But I wanted less, once I looked into it. No need to criticize it for what it doesn't pretend to offer (or, perhaps, burden you with), and no need to think of it as a direct competitor. It's a distinctive, previously beautiful (Caffeina version aside), enjoyable motorcycle in its own right, that never makes me wish I'd taken my Griso, at least so far. (Next summer I expect to use the Griso on a long trip, but am also contemplating taking the Buccaneer instead.)
Moto
I hope you didn't think that I was putting down the Buccaneer. I think it's a pretty cool little bike, and that it looks good, and I'm sure a helluva lot of fun for the price.
I was just addressing the comment that sounded like it was an apples to apples comparison to the V7 for 1/3 the price, that's all.
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As a responsible person, you have to ask yourself "WHY does it cost 1/3 of the price? How do they do it?"
We already do enough of throwing our friends and neighbors who own local businesses under the bus when a big-box store comes to town and undercuts their pricing, not thinking about "How are they doing this?" We just get blinded by "cheap" and don't care anymore.
If you can honestly look the "Why" and the "How" in the face, and support that, and be part of it in good conscience, then go for it ... Many people don't WANT to know, or don't care ....
Lannis
Unless I run across someone who refuses to buy anything Chinese at all, I have little patience for free-form moralizing about why I shouldn't be doing so. I don't think you're that guy.
Moto
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I hope you didn't think that I was putting down the Buccaneer. I think it's a pretty cool little bike, and that it looks good, and I'm sure a helluva lot of fun for the price.
I was just addressing the comment that sounded like it was an apples to apples comparison to the V7 for 1/3 the price, that's all.
Oh, yes, I see. Sorry if I gave a wrong impression earlier.
Moto
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If I had stupid money I would be riding one every day. Maybe a Gryffin.
I found that looking closely at competing motorcycles was really important for my choice. The Cleveland Cyclewerks bike was small and crude, for example. I have the same impression that the Janus bikes are crudely constructed. One thing I've noted is that there are no close-up photos of their bikes on the website. Why, I wonder.
By contrast, the newest Italjet looks a lot better when the close-up photos are examined. A real design esthetic is evident. For example, the new, cast or machined handlebar clamp replaces a perfectly nice looking one on the older model, with the only gain being for the sake of perceived beauty.
I'd be very leery of buying a Janus motorcycle sight-unseen, without even any close-up photography having been provided by the manufacturer.
Moto
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Unless I run across someone who refuses to buy anything Chinese at all, I have little patience for free-form moralizing about why I shouldn't be doing so. I don't think you're that guy.
Moto
Didn't say you "shouldn't be doing so". That's your conscience talking.
I said you should ask yourself "Why" and "How", and then Go For It. But it's just an opinion, not a command of some sort.
Lannis
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Didn't say you "shouldn't be doing so". That's your conscience talking.
I said you should ask yourself "Why" and "How", and then Go For It. But it's just an opinion, not a command of some sort.
Lannis
Lannis,
I said you were moralizing. Here's the definition of that in the Oxford American Dictionary:
"moralize.... (often as noun moralizing) comment on issues of right and wrong, typically with an unfounded air of superiority."
Especially considering your reference to "good conscience," this fits your comments to a tee.
You might also look up the definitions of "patronize" and "presumption."
I and the other adults on this forum don't need your instruction in what to think about in making purchases, as in: "If you can honestly look the "Why" and the "How" in the face, and support that, and be part of it in good conscience, then go for it." That's patronizing, the kind of thing you might more properly direct toward your own children.
And what gives you a license to presume anything about my conscience "speaking"?
Moto
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And what gives you a license to presume anything about my conscience "speaking"?
Moto
I'm getting to be an oldish man, seen a lot of stuff, listened to a lot of people, and "balance of probability" gets to be more and more accurate as time goes by. Looks like I got a bit close to home on this one ... !!
Lannis
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I'm getting to be an oldish man, seen a lot of stuff, listened to a lot of people, and "balance of probability" gets to be more and more accurate as time goes by. Looks like I got a bit close to home on this one ... !!
Lannis
You're wrong.
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You're wrong.
Well, maybe.
But how do you figure "I and the other adults on this forum don't need your instruction in what to think about in making purchases ..."
How do YOU presume to know what anyone 'needs'? Do they need your help in deciding what to read and what not to read?
Maybe "moralizing" and "presuming" and "assuming" is just what OTHER people do ... what "I" do is just give objective, necessary guidance as to how everyone else should read and interpret stuff.
Well, anyway. No place else for me to go with this, and we certainly don't need to keep Our Moderators playing "Whack-A-Mole" between Personal Attacks on this thread, and Resolution of International Social Issues on the scooter-stealing thread ....
Lannis
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we certainly don't need to keep Our Moderators playing "Whack-A-Mole" between Personal Attacks on this thread, and Resolution of International Social Issues on the scooter-stealing thread ....
Agreed.
If you like, I'll send you a PM with my point of view on buying Chinese, which I'm not foisting on anyone else.
Moto
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Agreed.
If you like, I'll send you a PM with my point of view on buying Chinese, which I'm not foisting on anyone else.
Moto
That'll be fine. I'll bet that I agree with 90% of it .....
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Wow, take it outside guys!
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Wow, take it outside guys!
Way ahead of you! Well, 22 seconds ahead of you, anyway. That's a lot of microseconds in computer time!
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What the h***.
Ya bore a hole or two (called a cylinder) in a piece of metal (take your choice .... (aluminum, iron,) make a few pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, etc, like engine manufacturers have been doing for 125+ years, put all this crap together, put it in a frame, put a couple of wheels on it, and get it on the market. Why all this debate after well over a century?
We as riders all know that some of these combinations feel better than others, shift better, ride better, etc.
But today, if a company making machines powered by internal combustion engines doesn't have the basics of this down to a science, well, God help them!
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What the h***.
Ya bore a hole or two (called a cylinder) in a piece of metal (take your choice .... (aluminum, iron,) make a few pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, etc, like engine manufacturers have been doing for 125+ years, put all this crap together, put it in a frame, put a couple of wheels on it, and get it on the market. Why all this debate after well over a century?
We as riders all know that some of these combinations feel better than others, shift better, ride better, etc.
But today, if a company making machines powered by internal combustion engines doesn't have the basics of this down to a science, well, God help them!
Hitting close to home for sure now!
How long have manufacturers been making engines where the valves are actuated by an eccentric camshaft, where a cam follower rides on the cam and pushes the valves open? 110 years or more? Hundreds of millions of engines, from BSA Beagle 75cc engines to "Oil Pull" huge harvester motors to Pratt and Whitney radial aero engines ...
... and yet Moto Guzzi couldn't figure out how to make them, and sent out thousands of motorcycles where the cam followers failed after a few hundred hours and would ruin the engine if not caught?
How long have manufacturers been building engines with hydraulically-actuated valves, in order to control valve lash? Forever - Harley started putting them on motorcycles 60 years ago. And yet in 2003, Moto Guzzi ....
Simple 4 cylinder automotive engines had been in production for 80 years, and yet in 1974, Chevrolet had the bright idea of creating the Vega ... and in 1980, the V8 diesel ....
Well, you get the picture .... It isn't a given, and not everyone, including the experts, can do it right ....
Lannis
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I hear you, and I agree with you!
Bob
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Funny how much of these coments & debate took place 45 years ago when Soichiro made his presence known.
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Funny how much of these coments & debate took place 45 years ago when Soichiro made his presence known.
Closer to 55 years :shocked:
Dusty
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Funny how much of these coments & debate took place 45 years ago when Soichiro made his presence known.
Honda was the main guy who was responsible for pulling the reputation of Japanese products sold in the USA from "tin junk" to quality stuff, by recognizing what would really sell, and actually doing it.
People forget that 50 years ago, "Made in Japan" was one of the worst things you could say about something .... But they figured it out.
Took 25 years or so, though, from after the war to get there ....
Lannis
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Both Japan (then) and China (now) have the advantage of building up an industrial capacity from scratch (the war having destroyed a lot in Japan). As a result their plants were and will be newer technology.
It's no longer a mass of peasants assembling things by hand for slave wages.
Moto
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More breaking news back here at Buccaneer central.
A slightly modified Italjet Buccaneer 250 v-twin is being sold by Italmoto in Italy, as the Italmoto Tiquattro 250 Cafe Racer:
(https://i.ibb.co/XYNrFXL/image.png) (https://ibb.co/XYNrFXL)
http://www.italmoto.com/tiquattro-cafe-racer-2/ (http://www.italmoto.com/tiquattro-cafe-racer-2/)
In this version, the 59 number plate of the Italjet, for that company's founding year, has been replaced by the number 52, for the year the original Italmoto was founded, according to their website (1952).
Italmoto was the company acquired by Maserati to become the basis for Maserati brand motorcycles around 1960, in 1953, I read. (I doubt that Italmoto was founded only a year earlier, if the acquisition was in 1953.) Of course the current Italmoto, launched in 2013, probably has little or nothing in common with the original company, except the name.
Italmoto also showed a very neat looking 125, with an upswept pipe:
(https://i.ibb.co/nLxtx0q/image.png) (https://ibb.co/nLxtx0q)
https://www.motociclismo.it/novita-moto-guidabili-patente-a2-2019-nuovi-modelli-benelli-fantic-honda-italmoto-italjet-kawasaki-mash-mondial-peugeot-swm-71369 (https://www.motociclismo.it/novita-moto-guidabili-patente-a2-2019-nuovi-modelli-benelli-fantic-honda-italmoto-italjet-kawasaki-mash-mondial-peugeot-swm-71369)
Its construction is so similar to the 250's that it must roll off the same Longjia line.
Moto