Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: pete roper on January 06, 2019, 11:46:20 PM
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So I'm rollerising this Sport this morning and bust open the kit and what do I find? The bag that contains the 'Pads' that go on top of the tappets only contains one 'Pad' and the earthing tang instead of two. I open the second box that contains the RH cambox I find that the bag in that one also only contains a single 'Pad'!
I mean??? Who works in their packing department? Mental patients on day release? Luckily I've got spares in stock but really! How can a factory be so bloody pathetic? It drives me bonkers!
Pete
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I work in Quality Assurance - I could tell you, but it would be nice if I could charge the factory for my audit.
Long story short, well intentioned people but weak management. Same story everywhere.
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Is it intentional. The law of averages say that some packages are picked right. As you often say Pete, they've been trying to get out of business since 1921, maybe their having a concerted company push to get out of business by the centenary???
You'd also think that they would put some effort into fixing a problem that they created in the first place, but hell WTF do I know.....
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So I'm rollerising this Sport this morning and bust open the kit and what do I find? The bag that contains the 'Pads' that go on top of the tappets only contains one 'Pad' and the earthing tang instead of two. I open the second box that contains the RH cambox I find that the bag in that one also only contains a single 'Pad'!
I mean??? Who works in their packing department? Mental patients on day release? Luckily I've got spares in stock but really! How can a factory be so bloody pathetic? It drives me bonkers!
Pete
You wonder how often that kind of thing happens with the Big Four from Japan...after working FOR Japanese companies and WITH Japanese companies in the semiconductor industry for >25 years, my guess is does happen occasionally...but not that often... :wink:
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I work in Quality Assurance - I could tell you, but it would be nice if I could charge the factory for my audit.
Long story short, well intentioned people but weak management. Same story everywhere.
That makes sense Norm. I've found that the attitude of a company's employees who interface with customers almost always tells me the attitude of the management too.
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I ordered a right crashbar and Guzzi sent me a left crashbar...four times in a row. I finally just had my scraped crashbar repaired and re-chromed.
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I ordered a right crashbar and Guzzi sent me a left crashbar...four times in a row. I finally just had my scraped crashbar repaired and re-chromed.
Maybe they thought you are in OZ :huh:
Dusty
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Pete, has to do w/how many are in their box w/they pack them up. The guy that orders parts for them doesn't know bikes only part #'s. Doesn't know it takes 2pcs per side. They got 1/2 & you get 1/2. It's logistics not motorcycles at all.
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It took FOUR attempts to get the left hand side cover for a '15 V7 Stone from Piaggio. #1... they sent the right side, labeled as right side. #2 & #3... they sent the right side, labeled as left side. They finally got it right on #4... a year later.
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Got a front fender from Guzzi. Took three tries as the first two came in a regular cardboard box with no support or padding of any sort, just loose to flop around in the box. Shipping is hard on fenders.
GliderJohn
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You have an ex-wife working in the factory?
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This thread is a pretty clear indicator of why many people are leery of Guzzi…
if you bring up the "quality" issue, cutely referred to as the need to "sort out" your bike in the first year... it gets sneered down as "it's a Guzzi, buy a honda then", as though you're some sort of pleb, undeserving of the brand. But, if you can turn a wrench.. you can look past it. But it seems awfully odd to me that a NEW vehicle has as many issues as Guzzis do. My dealer has a pile of low mileage used Guzzis… all returned for something more reliable. Every old biker I know that has owned a Guzzi professes love for them, though most have given up on them... and will happily go off on a "hey Gary, remember my Guzzi?!" story while sitting around a campfire (and most now ride H-D, or Indian)
But then, if you pile on the supply issue, the support issue, the parts issue... isn't that a clear indication that something is rotten from the top down? Why do we accept it from Guzzi… I doubt you'd return to a restaurant that had the same issues, or any other business, really. Would you accept it with your chosen car company?
It can't be "an Italian thing"... I can get parts and service for my speakers, for my kitchen equipment, etc... quickly and efficiently.
So what is it? Does Guzzi simply have the world's brand loyal owners? Masochists? What is it?
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It is partly an Italian thing. I have a friend that works in concert show lighting. He repairs the equipment when it comes back from touring. He says some of the best lighting is Italian, but the way they often wire and engineer is just weird. He also has trouble getting the right parts from some Italian companies.
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It is partly an Italian thing. I have a friend that works in concert show lighting. He repairs the equipment when it comes back from touring. He says some of the best lighting is Italian, but the way they often wire and engineer is just weird. He also has trouble getting the right parts from some Italian companies.
It may be partly an Italian thing ... Italians DO have a different attitude toward life, towards business, towards politics, and toward "romance" than do Americans or English or 'Stryns ...
BUT they are perfectly capable of producing high-quality, no-nonsense equipment when they have to.
In the factory where I used to work, we needed some new CNC equipment, big horizontal and vertical boring mills that would hold fraction-of-a-mil tolerances. Since it was defense-related business, we were very much "Buy American" driven, since the American taxpayer was paying the bills. We tried our darndest to buy from Cincinnati Machine, Rockford, GE, all the big players. None could meet our specs. We ended up buying from an Italian company, and their stuff is working fine to this day.
They CAN do it. Why they don't do it with motorcycles, I don't know. Probably a Master's thesis in Industrial Management for some young buck in there somewhere ....
Lannis
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Guzzi must be getting better. I bought the new model 2017 V7 III Special in July of 2017, and have done nothing but normal maintenance in 15,500 miles since.
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It makes the whole journey more interesting.
'Gives us something to complain about, like my ex wife, she was only happy when whinging her guts out at me...
(Cannot imagine why...?) :weiner: :angel:
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Believe it or not, build quality is much better than it used to be. The only reason they assembled my Centauro was to make sure I had all the parts. :evil: : :smiley:
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Believe it or not, build quality is much better than it used to be. The only reason they assembled my Centauro was to make sure I had all the parts. :evil: : :smiley:
Very, very witty..
I'm gunna' use that and claim it as my own.
That's as good as the Harley one I saw here the other day...
90% of old Harleys are still on the road...
10% made it home... :evil:
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I mean??? Who works in their packing department? Mental patients on day release? Luckily I've got spares in stock but really! How can a factory be so bloody pathetic? It drives me bonkers!
Pete
story of my life, this sounds like a good description of the company i work for ,
40 % of our workorders are delayed because our company's supply chain cant keep up, and parts simply don't show up, despite customers being lined up to get their ordered machines. ....
even if everything does show up ,they managed to get their parts numbering so complicated they dont understand it themselves, and send the wrong revision of the part :-)
japanese are pretty good at designing and production. In my experience their supply chain is a nightmare....
you guessed, i'm working for a large japanese multinational :-)
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Its not just Guzzi. I spent the last 25 years doing parts for VW and Mazda. Some of the stuff that came in would scare you. Bad packing, parts paced broken, wrong parts, stuff folded just putting in the box, made wrong... Ive seen it all. Its really everywhere in the parts world.
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They CAN do it. Why they don't do it with motorcycles, I don't know. Probably a Master's thesis in Industrial Management for some young buck in there somewhere
If you'd be been buying Guzzi parts in the 80s or 90s, you'd have found that they did do it. At that time Moto Guzzi had the highest satisfaction with parts and backup of any motorcycle manufacturer selling in the US. You can probably find old magazines on line that show the polls, Rider and the like.
In about 1990 I ordered a huge amount of parts to restore my Le Mans, I'd decided that I wanted my existing bike factory perfect instead of buying a new bike and made it the most intense two month 'ground up' restoration project of my life. Everything was ordered - from major mechanical parts to switches, instruments, tiny odds and ends like special finish washers etc. I spent hours going through the parts book and writing down everything I needed before handing it to the dealer. You couldn't check if the stuff was available before placing the order, you had to order then wait and see. But it didn't matter... every single part came in from Centro Ricambi and after two months of working every spare hour without exception my LeMans was as new.
By the late 90s the situation was as Chuck describes using the Centauro example. De Tomaso got old and eventually died at some point in the early 2000s. His heirs set up some kind of Caribbean offshore ownership (TRG, Trident Rowan Group) that was listed on the US stock exchange. That seemed to me a bunch of crooks with little affinity for Moto Guzzi. Parts availability went down the pooper, Aprilia took over, Guzzis hard earned reputation for running a stable, reliable business evaporated and it hasn't improved much since.
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Meh , these types of things happen in the US also . There was a true story related in a Scot Adams book ; service man calls a copier parts supplier to order part A . Parts guy says sorry , can't sell part A . Service man asks if anyone might have the part ? Parts guy says no , I have the only one in the country . Service man says wait , you said you didn't have part A . Parts guy replies no , I said I can't sell it . Service guy in exasperation asks why not. Parts guy replies , if I sold you this one , then I wouldn't have one to sell :huh:
I've had almost exactly the same experience buying motorbike parts . Purchased two gears and a pair of bearings for a 441 BSA , paid new price , then realized the parts were for a 650 twin Burman trans . Drive back to the dealer , he refunds half my money . I ask why only half , his reply was "well , they are used now" Of course they were still in those little sealed plastic bags , that didn't seem to matter . That did not end well .
Dusty
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Ordered some crash bars for my sport years ago, never arrived. I figured someone in the Post italiane liked them...
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It can't be "an Italian thing"... I can get parts and service for my speakers, for my kitchen equipment, etc... quickly and efficiently.
The Italians make speakers?
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I was in a Indian dealership a few months ago who had taken on Moto Guzzi the year before. They had a new 1400 Tourer on the floor that had came out of the crate with the wrong color, non Matching, panniers on it and a year later was still unable to get the correct equipment so the bike just sits there getting older and loosing more money. Now just how can that possibly happen??
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The phrase "we always do it nice because we always do it twice" sounds great in Italian.That said. Just imagine what the folks buying the Chinese built Bennelli Tornadoes will be going through in a few years!
I've got over three decades between my last Guzzi (80 Sp1000) and my current one (16 V7II). At least the manuals are available in English now.
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This thread is a pretty clear indicator of why many people are leery of Guzzi…
if you bring up the "quality" issue, cutely referred to as the need to "sort out" your bike in the first year... it gets sneered down as "it's a Guzzi, buy a honda then", as though you're some sort of pleb, undeserving of the brand. But, if you can turn a wrench.. you can look past it. But it seems awfully odd to me that a NEW vehicle has as many issues as Guzzis do. My dealer has a pile of low mileage used Guzzis… all returned for something more reliable. Every old biker I know that has owned a Guzzi professes love for them, though most have given up on them... and will happily go off on a "hey Gary, remember my Guzzi?!" story while sitting around a campfire (and most now ride H-D, or Indian)
But then, if you pile on the supply issue, the support issue, the parts issue... isn't that a clear indication that something is rotten from the top down? Why do we accept it from Guzzi… I doubt you'd return to a restaurant that had the same issues, or any other business, really. Would you accept it with your chosen car company?
It can't be "an Italian thing"... I can get parts and service for my speakers, for my kitchen equipment, etc... quickly and efficiently.
So what is it? Does Guzzi simply have the world's brand loyal owners? Masochists? What is it?
I look at motorcycles and motorcycling as experiences. I've experienced all the Japanese brands and am working through the European brands. If I wanted boring and reliable I would be riding Honda. I like that only motorcycle enthusiasts know what Moto Guzzi is. It is definitely not a status symbol brand, but is a unique experience. I see my Carbon as a keeper so the depreciation doesn't bother me. Now if I can't keep it running in the future then it will just go up on a platform to look at as fine art.
Lately I have been looking to test ride the little Honda chopper looking bike. That is a bike I haven't experienced yet and the full on choppers are just too pricey to even consider.
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Here in Edmonton a long time Honda dealer (Scona Cycle) sold Moto Guzzi in the late early 70's, prior to retiring and selling his dealership last year the owner still had a picture on his wall of an Ambassador being raced around the local race track circuit. He liked the bikes and carried them up the mid 70's recalling the Series 1 Le Mans as being about the end of the line. Now this owner has forgotten more about motorcycles than most of us will ever learn and he was a Honda dealer since 1968 as well as CZ and a few other European brands.
A couple years ago I asked him why he never kept the Guzzi line. Number one was parts availability and second response to warranty claims, he had to deal through Berliner and wait on the parts to get routed from Italy to Berliner to his dealership, this long before internet or even overnight courier service. He told me Berliner were slow enough and didn't keep a great parts inventory in stock but the factory was the worst for service. Eventually his Guzzi customers became frustrated with the poor parts availability and he was being asked to finance the warranty work awaiting the factory to respond. Again he liked the bikes and thought they were a good product but pricey compared to his Honda line.
Sounds like very little has changed.
Maybe the Chinese will buy Moto Guzzi and like they did for Benelli and Moto Morini, take over the majority of manufacturing and distribution.
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Here in Edmonton a long time Honda dealer (Scona Cycle) sold Moto Guzzi in the late early 70's, prior to retiring and selling his dealership last year the owner still had a picture on his wall of an Ambassador being raced around the local race track circuit. He liked the bikes and carried them up the mid 70's recalling the Series 1 Le Mans as being about the end of the line. Now this owner has forgotten more about motorcycles than most of us will ever learn and he was a Honda dealer since 1968 as well as CZ and a few other European brands.
A couple years ago I asked him why he never kept the Guzzi line. Number one was parts availability and second response to warranty claims, he had to deal through Berliner and wait on the parts to get routed from Italy to Berliner to his dealership, this long before internet or even overnight courier service. He told me Berliner were slow enough and didn't keep a great parts inventory in stock but the factory was the worst for service. Eventually his Guzzi customers became frustrated with the poor parts availability and he was being asked to finance the warranty work awaiting the factory to respond. Again he liked the bikes and thought they were a good product but pricey compared to his Honda line.
Sounds like very little has changed.
Maybe the Chinese will buy Moto Guzzi and like they did for Benelli and Moto Morini, take over the majority of manufacturing and distribution.
That dude has one of the nicest collections of cool old bikes I have ever seen.
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That dude has one of the nicest collections of cool old bikes I have ever seen.
Rudy sold his collection off when the dealership was sold last year. It was a great collection!
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I was at the the establishment formerly known as MPH yesterday, and I heard a tale of a Guzzi owner who has called the New York office 42 times about a problem without receiving a return call.
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I was at the the establishment formerly known as MPH yesterday, and I heard a tale of a Guzzi owner who has called the New York office 42 times about a problem without receiving a return call.
MPH took mercy on me several years ago, when it was apparent that the NY office of Guzzi wasn't going to solve my problem. Todd (RIP) came through for me. I'll always remember how he took over, when it became apparent the primary US Guzzi facility wasn't going to help. It was obvious that he was embarrassed that the brand he supported to the hilt was letting a new owner down.
Bob