Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dcardo021 on January 23, 2019, 10:18:30 AM
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My wife wrecked her V7 III racer going over a set of Railroad tracks that we have crossed at least 60 or 70 times and went down. We were not moving fast, under 40 mph. In my rear view mirror I saw her head light go left to right and couple of times then the front wheel tucked, wife claimed she did not touch the front brake. As I was on adventure rider I had noticed a few riders mention that they felt a high speed weave at times through turns my wife mentioned hers would do it as well on a road that has turns that at times we hit with gusto. Has anyone here experienced this? Want to correct any problems as I just got her a new V7III racer. We had adjusted the rear shocks for sag etc. Wondering do I need a stearing damper or do I need a fork brace or stiffer springs or heavier oil. My wife broke her arm and had to have a plate and screws placed in her left wrist. Don't want to repeat that. She has 10 years of riding experience and never had a wreck. Any insight or ideas welcomed.
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I've found that head shake will be caused by 2 things on a newer bike, loose steering head bearings and incorrect tire pressure. The steering head bearings should be inspected at every scheduled maintenance, especially the first one, the bearings will seat in during the first 1000 miles or so then should be fine for a long time.
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I've had this happen and have had the bike get all squirrelly and then go back and inspect and discover an oil spot on the roadway
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Being new it shouldn't need it BUT I would pull apart neck and check the balls, see if they have grease and adjust. THEN you know it's correct. You could also file a warranty claim and let the shop do it. That way Guzzi may pay medical depending what was found. Especially if it was not test ridden. How many miles on bike? I would document it. You should have also got a list of things they checked off on their set-up/test ride. If it only had 1mi on odo it wasn't done.
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bike had just a little over 5,000 miles. It was totaled, it was a 2018. New bike replacement. :shocked: :shocked:
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if it only happened that one time I would say some form of fluid on the tracks.. if other times it could be anything... head bearings, wheel bearings, something loose front, or rear... really anything.
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Glad your wife is OK and willing to get back in the saddle. My 2013 Racer exhibited headshake right from the start. I ride moderately to somewhat aggressive. I read about others with similar experiences some with crashes and my solution was to upgrade front and rear suspension. That solved the issue. On both front and rear I replaced springs with weight rated Race Techs and put in a Matris preload kit on the front. It was money well spent.
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it did the head shake once...
but I was going at some "questionable" speed on my stone on a stretch of highway which has many micro bumps (stupid overloaded semi-gravel trucks ruining the roads)
I was told to lower the front end by 10~12mm to transfer a bit more weight forward to compensate the lack-buster of the front fork.
Haven't lower the fork nor head shaking as I haven't reach that stupid speed since.
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Check the runout on your front wheel. Look close and use a truing stand if you have one.
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Best to your wife. I hope she gets well soon.
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I've had no handling trouble w/my V7 III racer, but. K-Tech internals were installed b4 taking delivery from my dealer. Fork tubes are up 15mm, in the clamps. I'd like to believe frt. and rear suspension is close to perfect. It doesn't hunt or squirm even @ 4-5 #'s lower than prescribed pressure; and those angled valve stems are total crap. Cute. Handy, but NO THANX. My fault!
Picking up even a small amount of dirt, combined with a polished rail and/or the typically uneven surface and perhaps crossing @ a poor angle, will add unplanned adventures. There's a 6 lane highway (almost always heavy traffic, in southern NH), with a stop light & crossing local street @ slightly off 90 deg. It also features an oblique angled RR crossing, through its middle. I dropped the frt. wheel into flange-way the 1st time through, making a left turn. Went over the bars, of course. Be well. Best wishes toward good fortune, R3~
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While she is recovering, get her a copy of David Hough's "Street Strategies". It is full of short reads on the hazards we encounter on motorcycles that car drivers take for granted.
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It is shaking its' head no to say don't ride me until I am fixed or I'll kill you.
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My wife wrecked her V7 III racer going over a set of Railroad tracks that we have crossed at least 60 or 70 times and went down. We were not moving fast, under 40 mph. In my rear view mirror I saw her head light go left to right and couple of times then the front wheel tucked,
Any insight or ideas welcomed.
Is the railroad track perpendicular to the road? Or does it cross the road at an angle? Is it a rough or smooth crossing? Was she on the gas trying to catch up with you, when the tank slapper happened?
Getting a tank slapper at 40mph crossing a RR Track seems quite dramatic and unusual.
As mentioned, tire pressure and steering head bearings would be the things to look at, but if the track crossing is on an angle, and/or if it's rough, maybe something broke or was damaged.
Or, maybe throttle position had something to do with it... If she was hard on the throttle while crossing the RR tracks and lost traction on the rear wheel, a high-side could result...
You'll probably never know.
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Nobody's mentioned PDI? I know my guy won't let a bike out of the shop (unless you ask) without a full road test.
But, anything is possible.
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Nobody's mentioned PDI? I know my guy won't let a bike out of the shop (unless you ask) without a full road test.
But, anything is possible.
Maybe that's cause the OP said there were 5000 miles on the bike at the time of the incident.
Of course I might be assuming too much, but I would think the OP himself and others had ridden that bike by that point, if there was an obvious head bearing issue one should have felt it when applying brakes at SOME point in 5k miles.
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For me, the most obvious possibility is rider error.
My hunch is a highside induced by lots of throttle causing loss of rear traction on the RR Crossing.
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Many of you need to reread the original post.
The bike his wife wrecked is gone. Totaled.
He got her a new bike and wants to know if he should take any preventative measures because he heard about headshake.
I've hit the ton on my '10 Café and my '18 Carbon and never experienced head shake. I did experience suspension wallowing while leaned over on a less than smooth road. I fixed that with cartridges up front and Bitubo adjustable shocks in the rear.
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He got her a new bike and wants to know if he should take any preventative measures because he heard about headshake.
I've hit the ton on my '10 Café and my '18 Carbon and never experienced head shake.
I've never experienced headshake on a V7. I've owned two and ridden several others.
It's unlikely the bike's fault. It's likely the rider's fault.
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https://www.cycleworld.com/why-do-motorcycles-wobble-and-weave
I really like Murray Walker's wobble and weave video.
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Good grief. I've been in the plow WAY too long. I totally MISSED that. My bad!
My tail is humbly between my legs.
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The Breva I think has a slightly "quicker" steering geometry than the V7lll. It has only shaken it's head once, and that only recently when a guy came around a corner on a very twisty road on the wrong side. I shut off and braked, but then he didn't head back to the correct side. Drop on one side, car very close, I time to say "F..." and hit everything HARD. For the first time ever I locked the front up, it did a hop and when it landed it shook the head once, maybe twice. However, it promptly settled with no input from me.
Shaking caused solely from situation, not from the bike itself.
As it was, the driver suddenly woke up, dived for the correct side and just missed me. :shocked:
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https://www.cycleworld.com/why-do-motorcycles-wobble-and-weave
I really like Murray Walker's wobble and weave video.
Like that video! Thanks for sharing it.
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The Breva I think has a slightly "quicker" steering geometry than the V7lll. It has only shaken it's head once, and that only recently when a guy came around a corner on a very twisty road on the wrong side. I shut off and braked, but then he didn't head back to the correct side. Drop on one side, car very close, I time to say "F..." and hit everything HARD. For the first time ever I locked the front up, it did a hop and when it landed it shook the head once, maybe twice. However, it promptly settled with no input from me.
Shaking caused solely from situation, not from the bike itself.
As it was, the driver suddenly woke up, dived for the correct side and just missed me. :shocked:
That kind of experience will make you think about things.
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Well, my V7 I began to show a still controllable head shake at about 15 000 km´s. But it was at velocities of between 135 and 155 kph. As the fork suspension was really bad after 5 years I had a full service of it, including the modification with a Mupo fork kit (springs and emulator valves). And I had the fork legs showed upwards by 15 mm. These measures transformed the bikes. Even when it is cold the bike runs straight, I feel much less disturbance from ridges and patches in the tarmac. The bike is much more neutral in turns. In this regard it resembles the V7 III which has a slightly steeper fork.
The link to the Mupo kit: http://www.mupo.it/product/8/0/102/hydraulic-and-spring-fork-kit . It made the ride firmer but much more comfortable because it took away the short hard accelerations. Regrettably there seems to be no kit for the V7 III in the moment, only for the older Kaifa and Marzocchi forks.
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Here we go changing the direction of the post, but what is different between the "old" Kaifa forks and the Kaifa forks in the V7 III?
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Well, my V7 I began to show a still controllable head shake at about 15 000 km´s. But it was at velocities of between 135 and 155 kph.
My '09 V7 I also has a mild, controllabe headshake at 80 mph (135 kph). It's not really a headshake, it's more that I can feel the "suggestion" of head shake. Especially if I'm touring with saddlebags. Adjusting the speed either up or down makes it go away.
Joe
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That kind of experience will make you think about things.
Certainly did Joe, after I unclenched my bum pucker and taught myself to breathe again. Be still my beating heart. I remember the big scrape down the side of the drivers door as he went past my right knee. Tells me he didn't give way to someone before.
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My '09 V7 I also has a mild, controllabe headshake at 80 mph (135 kph). It's not really a headshake, it's more that I can feel the "suggestion" of head shake. Especially if I'm touring with saddlebags. Adjusting the speed either up or down makes it go away.
Joe
Basically lines up with the Murray Walker video.
In the wide sweepers my Breva develops a slight weave. Not as pronounced with the steel belted radial on the back now. Load the panniers up for touring and it goes away, again lining up with the video concerning weight.
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And I had the fork legs showed upwards by 15 mm. These measures transformed the bikes. Even when it is cold the bike runs straight, I feel much less disturbance from ridges and patches in the tarmac. The bike is much more neutral in turns. In this regard it resembles the V7 III which has a slightly steeper fork.
I have seen this before on various threads. I would have thought that moving the forks up would make the steering quicker, rather than slower.
The Breva is quick enough in the turns as it is, if anything I would be prepared to sacrifice a bit of that to get a wee bit more stability in the sweepers. Admittedly, the slight weave only shows up usually at about 80-85 mph.
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I have seen this before on various threads. I would have thought that moving the forks up would make the steering quicker, rather than slower.
The Breva is quick enough in the turns as it is, if anything I would be prepared to sacrifice a bit of that to get a wee bit more stability in the sweepers. Admittedly, the slight weave only shows up usually at about 80-85 mph.
Although the quicker turn is also the result of raising the fork, I was told by doing so, you added some weight to the front wheel and reducing wind drag due to higher seating position.
Oh well, I just stop doing stupid speed and that worked too lol...
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I have seen this before on various threads. I would have thought that moving the forks up would make the steering quicker, rather than slower.
The Breva is quick enough in the turns as it is, if anything I would be prepared to sacrifice a bit of that to get a wee bit more stability in the sweepers. Admittedly, the slight weave only shows up usually at about 80-85 mph.
Dropping the forks through the yokes will decrease the trail and will reduce stability.
Do note that it is very common that these bikes, especially the smallblocks, leave the factory with ungreased or inadequately greases steering head bearings. This is where I would of been looking if the bike was still available for inspection. The fact the suspension is fairly pathetic also gives another avenue for screw ups.
Pete
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Dropping the forks through the yokes will decrease the trail and will reduce stability.
Do note that it is very common that these bikes, especially the smallblocks, leave the factory with ungreased or inadequately greases steering head bearings. This is where I would of been looking if the bike was still available for inspection. The fact the suspension is fairly pathetic also gives another avenue for screw ups.
Pete
Thanks Pete. I have not all that long ago done that when I changed out the fork oil after corresponding with you. They had a bit of grease in them still but not much. That has now been corrected. The lighter oil made a huge difference to the Marzocchis. I realise the rear ones are s**t but I can live with that with the preload set as low as it will go now that Lucy won't ride pillion these days and the extra weight from loaded bags touring does help a lot as well.
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I switched to the optional 110 profile tire and went to radicals. Also installed stiffer Fork Springs given my weight. Both resulted a more stable ride.
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Dropping the forks through the yokes will decrease the trail and will reduce stability.
Pete
Yes, I know that. But nevertheless the bike is more controllable. Of course this may result to a big part from the fork job (cleaning, new springs, valves, oil) together with the working-over of the steering head (which I also had done). But the bike reacts calmer to longitudinal ridges now. Of which there are a lot on the back roads I ride.
The steering is quicker. But there is more feedback from the front. And this is exactly what I experienced riding the III. I look forward to reports from those who have both in their garage, like Kev M.
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I am in Rocker's camp on this. While R\R crossings are generally much smoother than they were 30 years ago, they are still one of the biggest hazards that we don't discuss much. It they are not square with the road or at all damp, steel rails do not offer much traction. I have also had some pucker moments on steel cattleguards.
The fact that the event happeded WHILE crossing the tracks should be considered.