Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: eightiesguzzis on January 30, 2019, 08:26:14 AM
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My MK3 is in the upgrade process, C5 Ignition, Tarozzi parts, Mistral Exhaust. Have replaced lego switches (with new) and LED bulbs and indicators.
Can anyone recommend a Brembo upgrade, specificially to calipers, not ready to swap out the disks yet. Although some good aftermarket full floating disks online now.
The other area of interest would be throttle controls and carbs, I'm ready for some dellorto 40 with ticklers so I can loose the whole choke system.
I am on the lookout for a set of MG130 Ohlin rearshocks, already have upgraded front suspension.
If you have any other upgrade ideas please share them here!
Keep the rubber side down
Ross
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If the kickstand is anything like the one on my MK IV LeMans, That would be the first thing I get rid of, and replace with a "Brown's" kickstand. The stock ,self retracting stand is a worthless contraption, and should not be trusted .
Rick.
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I have the complete front end from an 1100 Sport and modified swingarm for mine, mostly for newer mags & rubber. Also have a new Jackal block so I can put on fuel injection if I want. I may ride it yet before I die. All it takes is $$. I have the newer calipers & discs too. Most likely it'll be integral braking cause I'm used to it on everything else. Gives me something to do in retirement if I find some cash.
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Can anyone recommend a Brembo upgrade, specificially to calipers, not ready to swap out the disks yet. Although some good aftermarket full floating disks online now.
Perhaps a set of adapters to allow the use of 4 piston Brembo caliper as used on later Guzzis, Ducatis and such?
http://guzzipower.com/store/Brakeadapt65.html or http://guzzipower.com/store/Brakeadapt.html
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What Charlie said; add a Brembo ?mm RSC w/ remote reservoir. I used a 15mm on my V7 III, single rotor w/same caliper Charlie suggests. R3~
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As stated, a modern brembo MC will give you more power and better feel if it's the proper size. That with GL 4 piston calipers will be a whole new world from your original MK3.
If you're going with 40's, ok. I'd keep the chokes and lose the pumps. Throttle, I use a dirt bike 90' 1/4 turn throttle to open the 40's on my Sport 1100. Simplifies the set up and gives a genuine short pull without the need for the levers. Lighter pull, shorter pull.
Exhaust - assume mistrals are just the cans? If not, ignore the following. IF - IF you can find the front part of the old Bub Hyper System - it moves the cross over to the front of the engine ala LM I, really makes a difference.
Moto International is gone, but I'm sure there's someone out there selling the adjustable voltage regulator for the Bosch system. Batt will charge better and lites will be brighter.
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Relays on the headlight too
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I find the oem linked brakes on the MKIII surprisingly good once you get used to the feel. The front end dive as stock for me was unacceptable , and the
air damping units pretty useless. Suspension dollars will be your best money spent IMO. :gotpics:
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If the kickstand is anything like the one on my MK IV LeMans, That would be the first thing I get rid of, and replace with a "Brown's" kickstand. The stock ,self retracting stand is a worthless contraption, and should not be trusted .
Rick.
Did that with my LMIII works great!
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Perhaps a set of adapters to allow the use of 4 piston Brembo caliper as used on later Guzzis, Ducatis and such?
http://guzzipower.com/store/Brakeadapt65.html or http://guzzipower.com/store/Brakeadapt.html
Have a set of Ed’s adaptors & he did me a fair deal on the calipers, I’m guessing the kids all want radial now.
I also fitted an rcs19 mc, can honestly say a very good improvement even with the original calipers - but you don’t get the dual piston bling
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...
Lighter pull, shorter pull.
Friction being the same, a shorter pull will never be lighter.
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Friction being the same, a shorter pull will never be lighter.
Mike,
I've probably not described it well, and you are correct, I've left out details. The 1/4 turn 90' throttle uses a larger radius 'wheel', essentially moving the 'lever' from the top of the carb to the throttle eliminating the need to do a 'double twist' to fully open the carbs and eliminating the 'fulcrum' of the carb top lever from the friction deficit. Additionally I've done away with the pumpers in the carbs. Using a teflon lined cable and a lighter spring the twist is almost 'Japanese'.
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You are now the custodian of an appreciating classic, and IMO the best-looking of all Le Mans models. You did not say you were going to modify the looks, so that is good. I suggest keeping any aesthetics modifications reversible.
Having mucked around with Dell'Orto PHM40s on two Sport 1100s, and having switched them both over to Mikuni flat slides, I have zero hesitation in recommending switching up to Mikunis or Keihins. They function so much better than Dell-Ortos; they really wake up your bike. 38s are likely ideal for street use; gotta keep up that intake velocity, and Guzzi heads don't flow all that well.
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You are now the custodian of an appreciating classic, and IMO the best-looking of all Le Mans models. You did not say you were going to modify the looks, so that is good. I suggest keeping any aesthetics modifications reversible.
My sentiments, too. It's your bike of course, but still.. :smiley:
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Thanks for all the suggestions, especially brakes, they will be next. The biggest game changer besides the mistral cans, for me has been the C5 ignition. After setting it up, one touch of the starter and shes away, a bit of fluffing around with the carbs probably in relation to the new mistral exhausts and its changed the whole riding experience.
After brakes I am going to take the plunge with a lithium battery set up (with relays) with the m-unit keyless bluetooth system and have a crack at loosing most of the old loom, replace the fuse box from the 80's and I will be feeling allot more confident when 300ks from home :)
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My sentiments as well.
You are now the custodian of an appreciating classic, and IMO the best-looking of all Le Mans models....
(https://i.ibb.co/crfF50w/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/crfF50w)
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I'd consider calipers and discs as a unit, it may be a opportunity to intall larger discs too. That depends though on how good the exisitng brakes are, all down to personal choice at the end of it
I loathe one piece discs having had a pair warp with hardly any mileage and I'm very conserative with my braking.
Went to full floaters and never had problem since
If going to an M-Unit you probably wonn't need a fuse box it depends how you wire it and what you want. On my setup with an old M-Unit, one of the first ones I did put in place a fuse box for some auxiliaries but it wasn't strictly necessary. I used a Centech unit that or an Eastern Beaver would be my choices.
You won't need relays for the lights either if going to an M-Unit
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uf99DUmcjs5LOsr_Z4g7nTtODyOxUUbVobiuImLUcS8Hc3sxLHgq1B9zX86gg8FpFBWU9Rv4Gkt27SN08XHG2DXBSki1-ddQAFY_n70lDuhnC8qZSbwLRvfq9SJKrSB6nv9RvmVN7S8fn6tS2LVnYfJHogtm49rqdeIYj2LrPjTmHoALsQqFGEE1nTMYVYFCMj2vJvmiljoosU1p2PoiymNiyETCnxd1rsUJgQVT_exkrU-8DtBQ7n9NySVq_jUCgUOj_GS25enThAnCiWB9SSjvXXvakXRw6G5-HF1kfIRZafkAHFakVqNKJ8mgUAlKDbKyKkbkjjueVJruPuS1eav4yRtkjJFEjiUfjqb5Pm3JcCkyGetnvu5WjzYbTIgyM98qzGtIcAuMJuxPvERgL_y7Oh71vt6nmjC75Ah-zWDYd5Z1L0OReAGrgqiPiMoWMAw3ea2TBvNSDQjUVc8KZUdD9ZdbZb9oI0VFsrJjPHA8dM4DZS7etNJKGJklKKo_DS4SAcP4WAWIsi2rzw6VGVe99vY7a-fIhHp3jhP3HO8Imhvmh2M8ZCIUFQ8YCJcqD7IRfX7-udabGKh9bPO5mv6jzP1TqXhvfwXlVaRyTEWd5xd6PQWtqkrvIsLZm6Qonkx5qxSbWZKz9FxDXEWD--tTa_Xe5HY=w754-h1005-no)
John
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Electrical upgrades are mostly invisible and very worthwhile in terms of functionality:
--LED headlight bulb. Plug-and-play into H4 socket; vastly increased lumen output over halogen-with-relay; lower current draw (25 W low, 40 H) obviates need for relay; somewhat scattered beam is ideal for daytime conspicuity, less than ideal for night riding.
--Lithium battery. Save 8-10 lbs over lead-acid or AGM. Holds charge better; strong cranking; only downsides are cost and weaker performance in cold weather.
--DIY Starter battery cables from Revival Cycles. High-quality, multitudinous small filaments, cut and solder to length you need. Delivers more current to starter.
--Chinese-made Valeo-clone starter. $75 on eBay, stronger cranking and saves several pounds over ponderous Bosch OEM. Dependable.
--LED tail/brake light and indicators. Bright, low draw, resist vibration for long life.
--Adjustable voltage regulator from MG Cycle. Inexpensive, reliable, easy to adjust.
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Just one more thing & I don't really know or have experience of Lithium with the old Bosch Reg/Recs, but I would be a little wary
These batteries have very low internal resistance, this means they can absorb and discharge large amounts of power quickly. This can cause problems not only with the batteries themselves but place stress onto the Reg/Rec and charging system in general.
Other things you should know
Do not charge them with a charger that has a Sulphate cycle
They should ideally be stored when not in use at 60-80% of full charge capacity (this does not equate to Volltage the relationshiop is non linear). Ask the supplier if in doubt. When you want to use the bike bring them up to 100% with the charger.
They should ideally be balanced charged if not all the time then at least ocassionally. The battery comprises of series parallel low voltage cell packs to make up the Ah & Voltage requirement, so each pack of parallel cells should be charged individually, if you don't then they can get out of whack and prematurely fail. Some manufacturers have this circuitry built into the battery others not, I'd ask the question.
A dedicated charger for the job is ideal
Do not let them go flat they are far less tolerant of abuse than Lead Acid
Not saying they are the product of Satan I have one in an 1100 Sport, I am just trying to warn you of the differences
John
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Old Jock is correct: A lithium battery presents quite different charging characteristics than a conventional battery. Therefore it should be charged with a dedicated, Lithium-optimized charger, such as Optimate. No problems.
I have run a lithium battery (AntiGravity AG-801, 8 cell) for three years on my V50. Charging - Bosch OEM alternator, OEM diode board, new Bosch adjustable regulator - has been problem-free. Likewise, electrical power to the bike has been stable, strong and without the slightest anomaly. During the winter hiatus, I give the battery a charge every 6 weeks or so, only because the GPS speedo has a tiny (optional) power drain to enable it to connect immediately upon startup to the satellite signal. The astonishingly compact size of the battery has opened up a sizable, quite useful luggage compartment in the center of the bike where the - by comparison - enormous and heavy Yuasa battery used to reside. Overall, my experience with the lithium battery has been nothing but excellent. (I don't ride in very cold weather).
As Old Jock said, the lithium battery is "different", but IMO it is not to be feared as a tool of the Devil or an exotic, mysterious component. It is just a step forward in modernizing batteries, especially valuable for motorcycles because of the significant weight saving and tenacious charge holding. A bit of an investment up front for the battery and charger, but I expect this battery to last for years and the charger will serve if a new battery is eventually required. Highly recommended.
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Make sure the charge light in the instrument binical is the 1.2w incandescent globe NOT led.
The load it draws is required for the alternator to charge, it helps with the magnetic field of the rotor.
Make or buy a useful sidestand, that standard bastard is designed by the same bloke who designed the Genoa bridge.
Move the main earth from the battery tray to frame bolt, to battery tray to gearbox bolt, much better earthing.
Cheers
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Just my opinion.
I'd keep it damn-close to stock. Don't screw with it.
You really don't need all that stuff!
It'll be worth more later too.
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+1. If it's not already hacked, then leave well enough alone. Guzzis' are just starting to gain steam as a collector bike.
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LED bulbs and a solid-state v/r make sense, but I'd stick with an AGM battery (ETX30L) and the original Bosch starter.
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When I had my III I added a Corbin seat and KN super bike bars,perfect.
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Hi Ross
Brakes, suspension, ignition, aesthetics then comes more POWER
Sell it and buy an 1100 Sport. You know it makes sense :grin:
Cheers
Jason
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The single biggest performance improvement upgrade is a lighter flywheel. I run an 1100 sport flywheel on my Le Mans. It really wakes the bike up. It does change the lazy feel of the engine - more lumpy below 4000 revs and more engine braking. But it pulls out of bends in a way that will surprise modern sports bikes.
The other noticeable improvement is running a crossover pipe a la Le Mans Mk 1:
https://hmb-guzzi.de/Downpipes_s2
If you have a small valve Guzzi with 30mm carbs junk them and stick on some 36s. Big difference.The heads will need to be ported and helicoiled to take the 36mm manifolds.
Brakes can be made to work adequately - by changing the front master cylinder and fitting Ferodo race pads (expensive and hard to find). I tried the Brembo 4 pot caliper solution but found that pad and disc material makes much more difference than the caliper. Original iron discs are better than stainless floating and I found the lower position of the 4 pots altered the steering in a way I didn't like. Don't use sintered pads on cast iron discs.
And the suspension? Wurth progressive springs are a big improvement on the original (too soft) fork springs and a pair of IKONS. Still not great but how far do you want to go? Not sure if FAC dampers are worth the money.
Oh and chuck away the air filters and stick some on bellmouths - the Nikasil liners can take it. Unless you live in a desert of course.
I have Dyna III ignition and Dyna coils but any difference is small.
Do put on some rear sets. Big improvement for high speed riding. The bike is actually comfortable. If you change the seat. The best rearsets by far are Agostini. Better gear change and riding position (lower than Tarozzi) + more true to the original design (on the Mk I+II).
I actually don't think there is alot wrong with original electrics, fuse box and charging system as long it is in good condition and not mucked about with. Never had a problem. Lego switchgear is rubbish - replace with Domino.
I have spent alot of time modding my Tonti bikes and I realise what a great job Moto Guzzi made of the original design. There is a harmony and integrity that can be lost.
And for Gods sake don't chop the back of the frame off and put on an alloy tank.........
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Lightened flywheel and ring gear makes a big improvement imo.
(https://i.ibb.co/M9X7jvr/IMG-0955.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M9X7jvr)
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Hi Ross
Brakes, suspension, ignition, aesthetics then comes more POWER
Sell it and buy an 1100 Sport. You know it makes sense :grin:
Cheers
Jason
Thats why I sold my Scura and purchased the MK3 I was going to get in trouble....The MK3 "feels" like its going fast I dont need to mess with the engine, however it doesnt "feel" like it wants to stop fast!
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(https://i.ibb.co/KLNQx4J/IMG-9884.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KLNQx4J)
Its getting there, thanks for all the (varied) advise :)
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If the kickstand is anything like the one on my MK IV LeMans, That would be the first thing I get rid of, and replace with a "Brown's" kickstand. The stock ,self retracting stand is a worthless contraption, and should not be trusted .
Rick.
I was shocked when my LeMans 3 and my CX stayed upright on their stock kickstands during our 7.2 earthquake while my big roll around toolbox fell over and most of my shelves were emptied. Go figure.
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If the kickstand is anything like the one on my MK IV LeMans, That would be the first thing I get rid of, and replace with a "Brown's" kickstand. The stock ,self retracting stand is a worthless contraption, and should not be trusted .
Rick.
+1 on the Brown. I have one on my Mk1 Le Mans. That thing is very well built, easy to reach to deploy, and very stable when deployed.
I'm not sure where/if you can buy them for Guzzi though. Nate at Boxerworks in GA put it on for me before selling me the bike. Now I want them for both my Airheads.
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There is a Triumph side stand that will fit the Tonti Guzzis with some modification of the mounting bracket.
I bought one of these side stands a couple of years ago and am finally getting around to modifying the bracket which will entail cutting and re welding.
Found this pic of one fitted to a Le Mans.
(https://i.ibb.co/7Wzqrsm/Guzzi-side-stand.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Wzqrsm)
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I find the oem linked brakes on the MKIII surprisingly good once you get used to the feel. The front end dive as stock for me was unacceptable , and the
air damping units pretty useless. Suspension dollars will be your best money spent IMO. :gotpics:
Showa fork dampers out of a '96 VFR made my Mk1 LeMans an entirely new bike, handling-wise.
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My sentiments as well.
(https://i.ibb.co/crfF50w/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/crfF50w)
Looks great in white! :thumb:
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Thanks Jay.
Just had this out yesterday, put about 150 miles exploring the roads in western NJ?
John
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Showa fork dampers out of a '96 VFR made my Mk1 LeMans an entirely new bike, handling-wise.
Where did you source the dampers?
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I agree, the stock dampers are terrible. I put in a set of Bitubo's from Harpers and what a difference. I had to do seals and dust covers anyway and when I pulled the old dampers the oil had leaked out long ago and there was o damping going on. To do it again I would leave the fork tubes in the trees as they were a son bitch to get out.
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Nip Startus Interrupts in the bud
Add a direct feed from the battery to the start relay contact.
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Where did you source the dampers?
I've done this mod too, I bought a pair of used RC36 forks off ebay and took the dampers out of them.
Be aware, there is a fair amount of machining needed to do this mod, including turning down and cutting a new thread onto the Showa's fork caps to fit the Guzzi stanchions. Also make sure you keep the Showa cartridge lower attachment bolts, they're a smaller diameter than the Guzzi items, from what I remember.
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Where did you source the dampers?
I ended up buying a complete fork off eBay. One of these days, I'll get around to listing the left overs, including the triple clamps.
I had a friend who is a machinist turn them down on his lathe so they'd fit.
He also turned and re-threaded the VFR fork caps/adjusters so they'd fit the Guzzi fork tubes.
The only externally visual difference form stock is the adjusters sticking out the top of the tubes.
They work brilliantly!
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I've done this mod too, I bought a pair of used RC36 forks off ebay and took the dampers out of them.
Be aware, there is a fair amount of machining needed to do this mod, including turning down and cutting a new thread onto the Showa's fork caps to fit the Guzzi stanchions. Also make sure you keep the Showa cartridge lower attachment bolts, they're a smaller diameter than the Guzzi items, from what I remember.
+1 to all this. There was definitely a fair amount of machining to do, including on the bottoms of the forks for the different lower bolts.
Although the bottom machining might have just been necessary, as the bottom bolts were very over torqued on my forks when I got them.
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I have the FAC dampers in my forks and Tarozzi brace (which needs machining as once attached the forks dont move!). I am keen to get rid of the main stand and see guzzitech have machined spacers $75 to fill the gap, I will start looking for a Browns side stand here in North America before heading back to NZ.
Kiwi_roy always enjoy your electrical tips! What do you think of lithium batteries? I have installed a C5 electronic ignition with rotary switch, runs so much better with that mod alone.
I'm in need of new brake rotors front and back, adaptors are available to set up with gold brembo calipers (tasty and look so good on a white MK3 :) and of course easy to source floating front disks (MG Cycles) but only for the front and.....that means a new master cylinder on the handle bars and de-linking the brakes (according to one experienced source). I would like improved or "modernised" brakes, however I like the feel of the linked system....can I have my cake and eat it too?! I'm sure the gold brembo calipers will work on (new) original cast rotors just as well as floating???
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I have the FAC dampers in my forks and Tarozzi brace (which needs machining as once attached the forks dont move!). I am keen to get rid of the main stand and see guzzitech have machined spacers $75 to fill the gap, I will start looking for a Browns side stand here in North America before heading back to NZ.
Kiwi_roy always enjoy your electrical tips! What do you think of lithium batteries? I have installed a C5 electronic ignition with rotary switch, runs so much better with that mod alone.
I'm in need of new brake rotors front and back, adaptors are available to set up with gold brembo calipers (tasty and look so good on a white MK3 :) and of course easy to source floating front disks (MG Cycles) but only for the front and.....that means a new master cylinder on the handle bars and de-linking the brakes (according to one experienced source). I would like improved or "modernised" brakes, however I like the feel of the linked system....can I have my cake and eat it too?! I'm sure the gold brembo calipers will work on (new) original cast rotors just as well as floating???
Not quite sure if you want to go floating on the front or not. Your choice, but I've had solid rotors on an LM 1000 and they warped in an incredibly short period of time.
I'm very conservative in using my brakes, no track use and I coast into bends, I hardly ever touch the brakes.
I also had a mate whose LM I which also used solid rotors, warp regularly
I'm sure the gold calipers will work (for a while) on solid rotors, but putting on a bigger caliper onto solid rotors is going to exaccerbate the rotors tendency to warp
Just my experience
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I've done this mod too, I bought a pair of used RC36 forks off ebay and took the dampers out of them.
Be aware, there is a fair amount of machining needed to do this mod, including turning down and cutting a new thread onto the Showa's fork caps to fit the Guzzi stanchions. Also make sure you keep the Showa cartridge lower attachment bolts, they're a smaller diameter than the Guzzi items, from what I remember.
Thanks guys, I wonder how this mod compares to the regular FAC replacements? My assumption is that this is a better modification.
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+1 on the Brown. I have one on my Mk1 Le Mans. That thing is very well built, easy to reach to deploy, and very stable when deployed.
I'm not sure where/if you can buy them for Guzzi though. Nate at Boxerworks in GA put it on for me before selling me the bike. Now I want them for both my Airheads.
Years ago I worked with Nate and Scott (Member here) to adapt a Brown side stand to bolt up to a Guzzi Tonti frame. The prototype is still on my V7 Sport. AFAIK, you can still buy them at Boxerworks. Not cheap, but what is your bike and piece of mind worth to you?
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Re: discs; I replaced my original LM2s with stainless one piece from HMB-Guzzi. Original calipers and carbon ceramic pads.
Work brilliantly on a de linked system with a 15mm mc up front and a 12mm rear.