Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: injundave on March 17, 2019, 10:42:15 PM

Title: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: injundave on March 17, 2019, 10:42:15 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/Mkw6dSK/3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Mkw6dSK)

(https://i.ibb.co/3FZHjc5/4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3FZHjc5)

(https://i.ibb.co/nM27xB2/5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nM27xB2)

(https://i.ibb.co/b77cFdJ/6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b77cFdJ)

(https://i.ibb.co/r0JwMFB/1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r0JwMFB)

(https://i.ibb.co/hXhY60f/2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hXhY60f)


Looks like I am now a Lario owner. I saw this on the Book of Faces today. The previous owner's son borrowed it and it lost power so he pulled over. He and a friend then spent half an hour trying to bump start it with the result that one piston and valve is knackered. Not sure about the head. The price was good and I will go to bring it home later in the week. From the owner's memory its a 1989 model.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: Muzz on March 18, 2019, 02:07:12 AM
Now whotcha gone and done Dave. :evil:
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: malik on March 18, 2019, 02:12:50 AM
Nice one, Dave. Another just right for UnZud's roads. Let us know if you need anything. There's one in bits in the Shed here, and a frame coming to be fitted with all the Breva bits. Martin (jacksonracing) has posted here with segments of his Lario fettling.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: jacksonracingcomau on March 18, 2019, 07:01:57 PM
welcome to the dark side
do nothing without pulling cam
my one off to tas again today, new tyre just on
any news re case Mal ? I’m just about convinced top end is proven, should start building the roller tappet one soon
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: injundave on April 04, 2019, 04:12:05 PM
An update. This arrived this morning. For it's age, according to the spec plate on the steering head its a 1988 model, its in surprisingly good condition cosmetically. The paint looks as though it needs a cut and polish to bring it right back. As yet I haven't been into the engine. I am going to leave it until my wife has seen it, after all she made me buy it because she thought I needed a project after finishing the V50 for my daughter. I have been reading Chuck's and Jim's posts again regarding refurbishing their Larios and talking to Brian about how to make the top end reliable. Looking forward to some fun!


(https://i.ibb.co/Lr0YZnh/IMG-0526.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lr0YZnh)

(https://i.ibb.co/kGTSsC7/IMG-0527.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kGTSsC7)
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: JACoH on April 04, 2019, 05:53:57 PM
What are those things on the mufflers, heat shields?
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 04, 2019, 06:15:37 PM
What are those things on the mufflers, heat shields?

The look stock to me.. cant see too well with this tablet.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: Roebling3 on April 04, 2019, 07:21:15 PM
Injun Dave: Do you know the manufacturer of the fairing?  R3~ 
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: injundave on April 04, 2019, 09:39:40 PM
What are those things on the mufflers, heat shields?  They are heat shields of some kind. The only thing I can think of that they would protect is saddlebags. They are way too far back to do anything for the pillion's feet.

Injun Dave: Do you know the manufacturer of the fairing?  It looks like it has been there forever. The indicator lenses are factory. I just went and had another closer look at the fairing. Some of the mounting hardware looks a bit home made so, maybe, its not an original fixture.


(https://i.ibb.co/xKZ12WJ/IMG-0540.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xKZ12WJ)

(https://i.ibb.co/9WskxRH/IMG-0539.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9WskxRH)

(https://i.ibb.co/jb7z3fQ/IMG-0537.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jb7z3fQ)
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: huub on April 05, 2019, 12:21:12 AM
nice Buy, there is some info available on how to make them last a bit longer.
keep us posted with your results..

my daily transport lario ( with close to 100.000 km) is developing a interesting vibration at higher revs,
i think i will be changing a camshaft soon.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: injundave on April 05, 2019, 11:55:40 PM
So, this afternoon, a wet and cold one, the first such day this year, well it IS autumn after all) I got out in the shed, put the Lario up on my work bench and started stripping the left side. The tank and side covers came off first and then the valve cover.


(https://i.ibb.co/C5jggkP/IMG-0542.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C5jggkP)


Rockers off. Single valve springs! Why did I think they had doubles?


(https://i.ibb.co/N7msf7W/IMG-0543.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N7msf7W)


Head off. Oh dear!!!


(https://i.ibb.co/VjdNWGc/IMG-0544.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VjdNWGc)


Piston off.


(https://i.ibb.co/1XCXkbx/IMG-0545.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1XCXkbx)



(https://i.ibb.co/GQFp4gj/IMG-0546.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GQFp4gj)


The head is a real mess.


(https://i.ibb.co/HF44ttR/IMG-0547.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HF44ttR)



(https://i.ibb.co/Q9djD6v/IMG-0548.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q9djD6v)

upload images (https://imgbb.com/)


New cylinder required.


(https://i.ibb.co/hZHpjkz/IMG-0549.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hZHpjkz)


Not a good picture but there is damage to the cam, specifically the second lobe from the left.


(https://i.ibb.co/71ZkKTD/IMG-0551.jpg) (https://ibb.co/71ZkKTD)


And while I was there I came across this interesting breather arrangement.


(https://i.ibb.co/qjCR844/IMG-0550.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qjCR844)


The top and bottom hoses come from the rocker cover. The middle one goes down to the sump and the two big ones on the rear side vent under the rear fairing. Tomorrow I will remove the oil pan and pull down the right side. I hope all is well in there.

Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: malik on April 06, 2019, 01:13:31 AM
Seriously nasty. I hope your sump is in better shape than the Nevada's -


(https://i.ibb.co/PDG02jZ/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PDG02jZ)


Yes, that's one of the big end bearings in the top left.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: jacksonracingcomau on April 06, 2019, 02:11:40 AM
Dave
talking to Mal the other day, if you decide to put his 2. valve top ends on , and if your rh head is good which almost certainly is
I would like to buy all the lario bits,  both mine did rh side so rh head and piston / barrel exactly what I need for #2
might need to fly over and swap bits but due an unzed visit anyway
pm me if it sounds like a plan
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: huub on April 06, 2019, 08:58:34 AM
Quote

Head off. Oh dear

that is what a dropped exhaust valve looks like.... been there a couple of times.
the head should be salvageable, , will need some welding , machining and new seats.
i wonder if a cylinder from a two valve engine could be modified to fit , i am running out of cylinders.

apparently yours already had all the factory mods done ( wide cams , single valve springs. )
interesting to see it still dropped a valve

i would be curious what valve was fitted, can you check with a magnet if the exhaust valves  are stainless steel?
first bach was two piece steel,
the second type of valves were one piece stainless, with lash caps to stop the rockers hammering into the valves
the latest  valves should be stainless ( so not magnetic) with just the top of the valves magnetic due to the stellite top.

Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: kevdog3019 on April 06, 2019, 11:25:21 AM
For the upper end of these engines you need upper end parts. Lots of weak areas and eventually your weakest link will give.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: injundave on April 06, 2019, 11:58:37 PM
Back to the shed this morning. We changed from Daylight Saving Time to NZ Standard Time last night so I have a theoretical extra hour to play with. First things first, I stripped the toasted head.


(https://i.ibb.co/RHMHhzS/IMG-0552.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHMHhzS)


The valve springs are single but not progressive.


(https://i.ibb.co/wR1kpkT/IMG-0553.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wR1kpkT)


I tested the valves and found them all to be magnetic so indications are that they are the factory two-piece? Then I started on the right side.


(https://i.ibb.co/jbmYSj9/IMG-0554.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jbmYSj9)



(https://i.ibb.co/rdC22jp/IMG-0556.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rdC22jp)




(https://i.ibb.co/VTWs5df/IMG-0558.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VTWs5df)


I can still see the cross-hatching in the cylinder.


(https://i.ibb.co/rcNKhry/IMG-0559.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rcNKhry)


A short while later I had the frame separated from the rest of the bike.


(https://i.ibb.co/cQcWJgR/IMG-0560.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cQcWJgR)
<br

/>(https://i.ibb.co/FJW0C71/IMG-0562.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FJW0C71)



(https://i.ibb.co/Q68BFXm/IMG-0563.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q68BFXm)


Lots more work saw the sump off. This is what we found in the bottom!


(https://i.ibb.co/Yyt1qbG/IMG-0564.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yyt1qbG)


The damage to the cam lobe is more apparent in this photo.


(https://i.ibb.co/j3Dtmgc/IMG-0566.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j3Dtmgc)


While I was doing the spanner work my amazing wife was busy with degreaser and a selection of brushes. Here is the result.


(https://i.ibb.co/d2CdJ4c/IMG-0567.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d2CdJ4c)


Its almost 5.00pm. Time for food and, more importantly, a hot shower. More tomorrow.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: huub on April 07, 2019, 01:43:24 AM
a broken camchain tensioner, first time i see one of those.
apparently somebody just removed the inner valve springs , in a efford to stop the valves from snapping.
used to be a pretty  common mod
unfortunately he did not  change the valves. 
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: dguzzi on April 07, 2019, 04:49:14 PM
Such a nice looking bike...wonder how a newer engine might fit.  I know its a sacrilege.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: jacksonracingcomau on April 07, 2019, 06:47:56 PM
a broken camchain tensioner, first time i see one of those.
apparently somebody just removed the inner valve springs , in a efford to stop the valves from snapping.
used to be a pretty  common mod
unfortunately he did not  change the valves.
single springs look same as oe on the v75 head I found in France, really odd bit is the +.7 mm preload spacer they also fitted, proper wtf moment
Such a nice looking bike...wonder how a newer engine might fit.  I know its a sacrilege.

cheapest easiest thing to do
not sacrilege if he sells me lario bits to recycle
that should make swap a pretty painless e$perience esp as Mal has one , only Tasman Sea is in the way
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: injundave on April 07, 2019, 11:12:46 PM
I have been finding some odd and bizarre things about this bike. The breather system was one, but this one is really weird


(https://i.ibb.co/DbyVnPg/IMG-0569.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DbyVnPg)


The clutch actuator arm was extended and the other piece raised the rear anchor point for the outer clutch cable. Not what you might call an elegant solution, but it really begs the question "Why?" When I removed the sheet metal extension I found the original lever beneath, in perfect condition. All I can think of is that there may, sometime in the past, have been s difficulty in obtaining a clutch cable and that this enabled something else to be used.

I have been right inside. The sludge trap was clean and, although showing some small bright inclusions, the main bearings show little sign of wear. I think that the engine went bang and stopped before there was time for anything nasty to get pumped through. The oil pump looks pristine and had no detritus in it. Even the oil filter had no bits in it although the wire screen was covered.

There is no detectable up & down movement in the big ends. The big end bolts are so tight that my 10mm socket, although a good fit, wants to round off the nuts, so I have not yet been able to inspect the bearing shells.

One cam follower has wear on the flat face but all the others appear fine.

The clutch looks great. The gearbox seems to be selecting all the ratios it came with. The drive shaft and UJ are all fine.

I have a lead on a left side cylinder, head and piston and should know by the end of the week if it is all available. I toyed with the idea of using twp-valve V65 bits. In some ways this may be a very good idea but I do like the idea of 4 valves per cylinder. I have never ridden a Lario and would like to try it. We shall see.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: jacksonracingcomau on April 07, 2019, 11:58:55 PM
if you ever come to melbourne welcome to have a go on mine
 but there are many things beyond the myths that need sorting, took me a while before I was happy to button it up and treat it as designer intended.
very surprising 3 tappets still good, basically the whole story is told there, cam, adjuster and valve tip damage all symptoms
both my engines had been welded up and “rebuilt”
both worse than factory original, pins pulled ready to pop
Either way you go check lh rod for straight, one of mine badly twisted ie big end not facing same direction as little end
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: Frenchfrog on April 08, 2019, 02:35:56 AM
The clutch arm was probably extended to make the pull lighter dave..hope you can sort the bike out easily.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: stubbie on April 08, 2019, 03:34:39 AM
Is that what they call valve displacement? :thumb:
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: Muzz on April 08, 2019, 03:01:02 PM
Holy pistons Batman! :wink:  A bit of damage going on in there Dave. :shocked:
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: stubbie on April 08, 2019, 07:34:51 PM
Not sure if they are the same heads but Niks Euro Bits has left hand heads for a v65.
Title: Re: Uh-Oh, Lario
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 09, 2019, 10:53:35 AM
Not sure if they are the same heads but Niks Euro Bits has left hand heads for a v65.

Nope. 4V heads are beginning to be scarce on the ground.