Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: WP2 on June 04, 2019, 02:18:41 PM

Title: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: WP2 on June 04, 2019, 02:18:41 PM
I know that brake bleeding is not rocket science and I've done it many, many times.

But, I'm having a really frustrating time with bleeding the rear brake on my "02 Stone. Tried regular bleeding procedures and went thru a ton of fluid with no good results, Tried reverse bleeding - same spongy brake petal. Finally got tired of feeding my buddy beer for pumping the pedal so I ordered and installed a Speed bleeder so I could pump and watch. Fluid seems to be bubble free but the pedal is still spongy.

Bike has been on the lift for too long and I may have a buyer wanting the Stone in a couple weeks - needing to get this done.
Any advice? What am I missing?

Thanks.

Walt
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: jwinwi on June 04, 2019, 02:30:37 PM
Master cylinder is worn out?
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: Kiwi Dave on June 04, 2019, 02:38:57 PM
It would be worse if you had linked brakes.

IMHO, reverse bleeding is the better way to go.  You're probably getting air bubbles stuck somewhere along the route from the master cylinder to the caliper.  Try tapping this route while applying a little bit of pressure at the caliper to dislodge the bubbles.

If this doesn't work, walk away, speak to the Guzzi gods, and then try again.  Trust me, I've been there.
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: drdwb on June 04, 2019, 02:54:18 PM
Thanks for the post. After installing new clutch plates on my 03 EV with the linked system Iíve had the same experience, I can get it to be solid for a day or 2 but than goes spongy again.I tried speed bleeders, back filled it and done every thing but the fix where you take the calipers off  and hang them above the reservoir,  it will be the last resort. I have seen posts about hanging a heavy weight on the brake pedal over night, but this was a fix posted by a Norge owner who claims it fixes the reoccurring spongy brake pedal. I also have a Norge and have not experienced this yet, but Iím going to try it on the EV.  Iíll follow this post Incase you find a fix for this.
Dave
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: WP2 on June 04, 2019, 02:58:11 PM
Master cylinder is worn out?

How would I tell if the M/C is worn out?

I'm hoping not because the bike only has 55,000 miles on it.

Walt
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: WP2 on June 04, 2019, 03:04:43 PM
Thanks for the post. After installing new clutch plates on my 03 EV with the linked system Iíve had the same experience, I can get it to be solid for a day or 2 but than goes spongy again.I tried speed bleeders, back filled it and done every thing but the fix where you take the calipers off  and hang them above the reservoir,  it will be the last resort. I have seen posts about hanging a heavy weight on the brake pedal over night, but this was a fix posted by a Norge owner who claims it fixes the reoccurring spongy brake pedal. I also have a Norge and have not experienced this yet, but Iím going to try it on the EV.  Iíll follow this post Incase you find a fix for this.
Dave

I had a 15lb dumbell on the pedal overnight - didn't help.

I haven't tried hanging the caliper high - don't know why, it's pretty simple. It'll be in my future soon.

Guess my thoughts were centering around the M/C but wanted to eliminate all else before going into unknown territory.

Thanks.

Walt
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: rdtricks on June 04, 2019, 03:17:15 PM
The rear caliper on my CalVin has the bleed port pointing down and is the lowest point in the system.  Unfortunately this has allowed small air bubbles to stay lodged within the upper piston area.  I needed to dismount the rear caliper, getting the bleed port pointing up and above the hose.  Using a coupe of large zip ties to hold a small piece of wood between the pistons, rotating the dismounted caliper for the bleed port to be pointed up and zip tying the caliper to a frame member above the inlet hose allowed me to purge all air from the rear brake system.  PITA but worked like a charm.
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: Tom H on June 04, 2019, 03:38:11 PM
The rear caliper on my CalVin has the bleed port pointing down and is the lowest point in the system.  Unfortunately this has allowed small air bubbles to stay lodged within the upper piston area.  I needed to dismount the rear caliper, getting the bleed port pointing up and above the hose.  Using a coupe of large zip ties to hold a small piece of wood between the pistons, rotating the dismounted caliper for the bleed port to be pointed up and zip tying the caliper to a frame member above the inlet hose allowed me to purge all air from the rear brake system.  PITA but worked like a charm.

This!

Also remember that it may only have 55K, but it's 17 years old. Had a rear master go bad on my '04 EVT. Only about 25K, but 15 years old.

Tom
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: Joliet Jim on June 04, 2019, 04:58:06 PM
with mine I took the caliper off the bike so the bleed hole was the highpoint of the caliper and used a spare rotor I had to bleed the brakes
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: s1120 on June 04, 2019, 05:04:26 PM
As a few just said. Remove the caliper, block the pads, and bleed with the nipple sticking up. Mine went nice and easy.
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: 80CX100 on June 04, 2019, 06:58:36 PM
The rear caliper on my CalVin has the bleed port pointing down and is the lowest point in the system.  Unfortunately this has allowed small air bubbles to stay lodged within the upper piston area.  I needed to dismount the rear caliper, getting the bleed port pointing up and above the hose.  Using a coupe of large zip ties to hold a small piece of wood between the pistons, rotating the dismounted caliper for the bleed port to be pointed up and zip tying the caliper to a frame member above the inlet hose allowed me to purge all air from the rear brake system.  PITA but worked like a charm.

     This,,, and before I did this,,, I went through the linked brake system fittings from start (M/C) to finish (Caliper) and loosened and bled each fitting,,, it's messy, used lots of rags and paper towels to save the paint, fwiw ymmv

     If it's the linked system M/C,,, are you getting good response at the linked front caliper? If not maybe a rebuild is in order, just a wag.

      Kelly
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: jwinwi on June 04, 2019, 07:34:20 PM
Should've started with this question: Were you changing fluid which resulted in a spongy pedal or did the spongy pedal develop by itself after storage?
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: s1120 on June 05, 2019, 06:38:17 AM
     This,,, and before I did this,,, I went through the linked brake system fittings from start (M/C) to finish (Caliper) and loosened and bled each fitting,,, it's messy, used lots of rags and paper towels to save the paint, fwiw ymmv

     If it's the linked system M/C,,, are you getting good response at the linked front caliper? If not maybe a rebuild is in order, just a wag.

      Kelly

The 02 stone does not have linked brakes.
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: WP2 on June 05, 2019, 01:03:09 PM
Thanks guys for all the advice  They're bled and the pedal is solid.

Ended up hanging the caliper high and bled using the speed bleeder. Easy and fast - probably took 45 minutes start to finish with most of the time invested in taking the caliper off and reinstalling.

In the future, I will use this method at first sign of frustration in bleeding.

Thanks again.

Walt
Title: Re: 02 Stone Brake bleed
Post by: s1120 on June 05, 2019, 01:57:13 PM
Thanks guys for all the advice  They're bled and the pedal is solid.

Ended up hanging the caliper high and bled using the speed bleeder. Easy and fast - probably took 45 minutes start to finish with most of the time invested in taking the caliper off and reinstalling.

In the future, I will use this method at first sign of frustration in bleeding.

Thanks again.

Walt

Cool!  It turned out on mine the pads where getting pretty bad, and the caliper slide pins were stuck so it wasn't moving.. So it was good that I pulled it to change the fluid and bleed.