Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rough Edge racing on September 22, 2018, 08:23:14 AM

Title: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 22, 2018, 08:23:14 AM
 I have been riding since 1975 and have never ventured more than 100 miles from home...So...me and a friend are discussing a bucket list trip, a long tour of the USA by bike....Try to ride on back roads as much as possible but there will be some Interstate riding.
 Ok, my 79 Triumph and Ducati Monster are not suited for this... Because I like two cylinder bikes, because I like lighter bikes,because I like European bike I believe the choice is going to be a BMW R or a Guzzi Norge (I dislike the Cali styling) or a Ducati ST2 type...I have maybe $4000-5000 to spend on a bike..I would even consider a air head BMW with carbs because of simplicity... I can do whatever maintenance is necessary in my home shop..I have no interest in  heavy Japanese  touring bikes
  So what's your experience?
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 22, 2018, 08:42:37 AM
I have been riding since 1975 and have never ventured more than 100 miles from home...So...me and a friend are discussing a bucket list trip, a long tour of the USA by bike....Try to ride on back roads as much as possible but there will be some Interstate riding.
 Ok, my 79 Triumph and Ducati Monster are not suited for this... Because I like two cylinder bikes, because I like lighter bikes,because I like European bike I believe the choice is going to be a BMW R or a Guzzi Norge (I dislike the Cali styling) or a Ducati ST2 type...I have maybe $4000-5000 to spend on a bike..I would even consider a air head BMW with carbs because of simplicity... I can do whatever maintenance is necessary in my home shop..I have no interest in  heavy Japanese  touring bikes
  So what's your experience?

You're kidding, right??
I've traveled on a BMW R100RT, an ST2, and Norge.  Of those three, the Norge wins, followed by the ST2, and a (really) distant third for the beemer.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 22, 2018, 08:53:55 AM
 No, not kidding because I have never ridden any of those bikes ................... .........
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: oilhed on September 22, 2018, 09:13:12 AM
You're kidding, right??
I've traveled on a BMW R100RT, an ST2, and Norge.  Of those three, the Norge wins, followed by the ST2, and a (really) distant third for the beemer.

I've been lots of miles on a '84 Guzzi V65SP, a BMW R1100R & R1150GS and a Ducati ST3.  The Ducati was my favorite bike, EVER!  :bike-037:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 22, 2018, 09:19:25 AM
Chuck must have had a bad experience w/BMW!

For me its the best moto traveling companion I have ever owned. I like the sound of the 360 deg timing of the beemer or an old britt vertical twin, for me its sweet.

I have a 35" inseam and the Guzzi configuration (cylinders) beats the crap out of my knees. Their are MANY more dealers for the beemer while traveling and you can get just about anything for parts support on line overnite from multiple sources!

I'm not sure why I ride the CX..the great rallies???

Any way you go its one of the great pleasures of living free and is a great melting pot out there.

Viva la difference.

I did, Mike. Gusty cross winds would be very uncomfortable compared to the Norge or ST2. It followed rain grooves like a banshee not to mention where the asphalt has been crosshatched by machine to resurface. A friend of mine (RIP) was an airhead guru, so I took it to him and asked what was wrong with it. He took it for a ride and said, seems normal to me..
It was gone shortly thereafter.
I'm vertically challenged, so the Guzzi cylinders are fine.
Quote
Any way you go its one of the great pleasures of living free and is a great melting pot out there.
Absolutely. There is *nothing* like a moto trip to see sights and meet the locals. I had flown over the Appalachians many times, but really didn't understand the culture until Dorcia and I took an extended trip through them (on the R100RT  :smiley:)
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: malik on September 22, 2018, 10:19:03 AM
I've ridden my V7s long distances easily & comfortably, even around my country. I found the 1100 Sport a most comfortable long distance tourer (but from all reports, I must be somewhat odd), but that bike teaches you to pack efficiently & travel light. When you are on the road all day yesterday, today, tomorrow and the next day, you might find that high speed is not so important after all, and you get comfortable doing speeds compatible with looking around.

Other tourers I've known that you might find interesting  -
- the 1200 Sport has to be a contender with up to date mapping, especially if you are on the taller side.
- the early Aprilia RSV Mille has a good reputation as a sports tourer, with the advantage of reliability. 2000 would be a good year.
- the Triumph Sprint ST (although a triple) is built for the task - note that there would usually be nothing wrong with a high mileage one.
- The BMW GS 1150 is impressive, but watch the rear shock, it may need a new one.
- I've known Hinkley Bonnevilles that tour well, but the newest versions are even better built, though may be expensive.
- if you fancy an older Guzzi, and want to do some preparation, check out the Mille GT.

Get yourself out there - it really is an adventure & riding your bike day in day out is a special experience. A warning though - it is addictive.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 22, 2018, 10:34:42 AM
 I'm 6 foot about 175 pounds...I'm not afraid to change a few things or have the seat redone to make it more comfortable..The only fear of a Guzzi or perhaps the Ducati, is a breakdown and parts availability..But the odds are there won't be a problem...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 22, 2018, 10:53:20 AM
A buddy of mine rode BMW motorcycles 52,696 miles in 2017. I guess they are all bad or maybe he didn't hit any rain grooves :rolleyes:

The OP asked for opinions on those 3 bikes. I've had all three, and rode them extensively. Of course, one machine is not indicative of all of them..but that was *my* experience. I would take the Norge in a heartbeat..it will eat miles at an outrageous rate.. the ST2 is a dedicated sport riding position, and tiring *to me* because of that. I did not like the R100RT at all. YMMV, of course. That is why they make all kinds.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: John A on September 22, 2018, 11:02:27 AM
I've had slight experience on all three and the Norge is the one I'd pick. Any can have trouble but I think you are well suited to get one ready and have a good trip. The main thing is to go, there are so many reasons not to that creep into my mind so I just have to do my best to get ready and GO
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: PeteS on September 22, 2018, 11:04:42 AM
Rough, I had 220k on my '83RT when I sold it 15 years ago. As far as I know its still on the road.
Can't beat the simplicity. The only time it left me stranded is when the clutch arm at the rear of the transmission broke. Stuff does eventually break so I would be thinking of an early '90s one with under 100k miles. You can fix just about anything with the included tool kit.

Pete
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: JohninVT on September 22, 2018, 11:20:45 AM
Breva 1100's with a windshield and bags are usually a thousand or more dollars less than a Norge.  The difference would pay for all of your gas and some lodging on your trip.   
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Daniel Kalal on September 22, 2018, 11:22:47 AM
This wasn’t the question asked, but…

If you launch a long tour of the entire United States having done—as you say—nothing longer than a hundred miles from your home, you’re going to end your trip with, at best, a very long list of things you wish you had done differently.  At worst, you’ll wish you hadn’t started.

And, what will be on that long list of things?  I don’t know, but probably your chosen motorcycle won’t even make the first page.  But, I’ll mention that there are plenty of people out there (especially Europe) who tour on a Ducati Monster.

I’d suggest that you first do a half-dozen trips of at least two nights each to see if you can’t shorten that post-trip list from your ultimate trip.  An overnight trip doesn’t work as you’d be starting (or ending) both days in your own bed.  There’s something about unpacking in the evening and then repacking in the morning that uncovers all sorts of things you can do better—whether camping or lodging, there will be plenty of things you’ll need to sort out.

I envy you.  Multiple days on a motorcycle will really open the country for you.  Funny thing, while I’ve taken hundreds of motorcycle trips, it’s always the case that it isn’t until the third day on the road that everything settles into a comfortable routine for me and the brain has cleansed itself from all those other things that don’t matter so much.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 22, 2018, 11:38:10 AM
Quote
and the brain has cleansed itself from all those other things that dont matter so much.

David Cwi used to call a long trip a "cleanse ride." A virtual cleansing of the attic, so to speak. Absolutely right.

Yes, a Monster would be fine to do the trip. I rode the 1000SP out to California with nothing more than a bag tied on the back. If you are not camping, it's plenty. Most people take "way" too much *stuff.*
Daniel's been all over the world with his yellow bag. Finding his thread of what he takes would be a great start.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 22, 2018, 11:55:12 AM
My choice for that kind of job is an old BMW R100GS, which for me is the best all around touring bike there is.  You can do tight roads, it can cruise smoothly along a motorway/interstate at 80 mph, it handles well and it's always comfortable.  Also, you have the reassurance that if it breaks, it's not going to be some annoying technology item that will be complex, time consuming or even impossible to resolve on the road. I have no time for newer BMWs, they annoy me, and I'm not a huge fan of late model Guzzis for the same reasons.

I've had an ST2 and now ST4 since 2009 or so.  These are special bikes to me because they are a thoroughbred sport bike that just happens to have higher bars and good hard luggage that looks great on the bike.  However, to really utilize an ST you need to be riding it pretty fast and hard.  Generally, that's not a practical proposition for many days in a row: first, the US doesn't have twisty roads that go on endlessly for days, and secondly even if you were 30 years old it'd get tiring after a week or so.  For one week in California the ST is my recommendation, but not for a long tour over a wider area unless maybe you were to customize the seat and bar setup very carefully. 

You might consider an older touring Guzzi, an SP or similar, if one of them suits you.  They don't handle as well as the R100GS (I've had plenty of experience on both) but they have many of the same attributes with a more relaxing gait that's soothing over many miles and days.  Just make sure you get the riding position and seat sorted out for your own preferences.

Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: JohninVT on September 22, 2018, 12:10:40 PM
This wasn�t the question asked, but�

If you launch a long tour of the entire United States having done�as you say�nothing longer than a hundred miles from your home, you�re going to end your trip with, at best, a very long list of things you wish you had done differently.  At worst, you�ll wish you hadn�t started.

And, what will be on that long list of things?  I don�t know, but probably your chosen motorcycle won�t even make the first page.  But, I�ll mention that there are plenty of people out there (especially Europe) who tour on a Ducati Monster.

I�d suggest that you first do a half-dozen trips of at least two nights each to see if you can�t shorten that post-trip list from your ultimate trip.  An overnight trip doesn�t work as you�d be starting (or ending) both days in your own bed.  There�s something about unpacking in the evening and then repacking in the morning that uncovers all sorts of things you can do better�whether camping or lodging, there will be plenty of things you�ll need to sort out.

I envy you.  Multiple days on a motorcycle will really open the country for you.  Funny thing, while I�ve taken hundreds of motorcycle trips, it�s always the case that it isn�t until the third day on the road that everything settles into a comfortable routine for me and the brain has cleansed itself from all those other things that don�t matter so much.

Very true.  Few people can jump on any motorcycle and do 500 mile days over and over, let alone someone who usually rides less than a hundred.  I've found that if I am stopping and really engaging with people and places during a trip I do closer to 300 than 500 miles.  A Monster might suck crossing the plains or running across Texas at 90mph but it will knock out 300 mile days with plenty of stops fairly easily.  You're also right about packing.  Digging through a poorly thought out packing scheme to find something is a PIA.  When I started doing trips and camping I went minimalist. I quickly found that a ground pad didn't cut it and I now carry a big inflatable mattress and battery powered air pump.  My packing priorities changed because my 49 year old body needs a decent night sleep and getting on a motorcycle when you're already sore from the hard ground takes the shine off a trip quickly.  Stupid things like packing sandals and a roll of quarters for the campground shower get overlooked if you don't do some practice trips.  So do things like having toll money in the top of your tankbag or at least two extra pairs of gloves or a half dozen Ziplock bags.  It can be challenging to stay clean on a longer motorcycle trip.  Everyone thinks they're going to do laundry along the way.  This may seem wasteful to some but I'll pack three pairs of underwear and t-shirts.  When they're dirty I go to Walmart and buy three of each and throw my dirty ones away because I want the layer of clothing next to my skin to be clean.  It's often the little things that make the difference between a fun trip and a miserable one.

A Monster would definitely do it but the fact is that you're going to either overpack or simply pack wrong.  A Breva or Norge with bags can carry a lot more than the Monster so one would be more forgiving of your mistakes in that regard.  Either would also be more comfortable than the Monster.  Put a thottle lock like a Vista Cruise or Throttlemeister bar ends on the Guzzi and you can almost snooze at 80mph for a couple hours when you need to stay ahead of some bad weather or get somewhere quickly.  IMHO a set of handguards is one of the best investments you can make if you're going to tour in the Fall or Spring.  Anyway...Daniel makes some great points.         
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 22, 2018, 12:40:37 PM
  Good point about making a few shorter trips....On my Monster it's about 100 miles of endurance, mostly due to the 20 year old seat.The Monster is not a consideration for the trip....The long trip will not not be an endurance riding contest, maybe 300 miles a day, maybe 500 at the absolute most if it's high speed Interstate...I can be primitive when it's required, wash up in creek, poop in the woods, eat the worst food ... but the coffee,a good cup always makes for a good day................ ..
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 22, 2018, 12:58:00 PM
IMHO, 300 miles a day is about right. Gives you plenty of time to smell the roses/see the sights. 500 is a long day in the saddle to me.
Quote
but the coffee,a good cup always makes for a good day
When camping, it's a must, but I've even been known to take an Aeropress and small stove when moteling.   :rolleyes: :smiley: You're right. Good coffee makes for a good day, and most hotels don't have that.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: JohninVT on September 22, 2018, 01:15:43 PM
Are you tall?  This Stelvio is about as cheap as I've ever seen.  You didn't mention a Stelvio being an option but they're mile eaters and this one has extremely low miles for the year and brand new tires.  It also has an adjustable windshield and heated grips.  The bags are top loaders(my preference) and it also has a crash guard.  You can pack on top of flat bags if you need to and it already has the rear rack for a topcase.  You could ride this one all around the country and probably get your money back on it if you sold it after you're done. 

https://newhaven.craigslist.org/mcy/d/moto-guzzi-adventure-bike/6680328163.html
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: pyoungbl on September 22, 2018, 01:29:34 PM
RER, I have taken long trips (by that I mean coast to coast and back) on a ST2, Multistrada 1100, Norge and Stelvio.  Shorter trips (3-6K miles) on a V7.  Any of them work just fine.  The Ducati' were much more sport oriented and I had to do more to make them fit me.  They were also more difficult to fix if anything went wrong or even to do routine maintenance.  As I recall, the ST2 valve check interval was only 7500 miles.  I installed improved valve keepers so that was less an issue in my mind but even a minor problem like a bad relay seemed to be a lot more trouble to sort out due to all the plastic in the way....and then finding a dealer with the correct part.  BTDT.  The Norge and Stelvio were great for a multi day trip.  I found the Norge to be just a bit cramped for my 5' 11" frame and 32" inseam.  The 2012 Stelvio solved that problem and was even easier to work on because of less plastic.  Oh, and don't forget that 8.5 gallon gas tank on the 2012 and newer Stelvio. A newer Stelvio (2013 or newer) with rollers can frequently be had for a good price...in the $6K range.  I cannot comment on the BMW mentioned, having never owned a newer boxer.  I did have a G650GS and it was a decent bike but heavy and doing a tune up was a real PITA.  Don't be afraid to try a smaller bike, maybe a 750 or 850.  As others have mentioned, the bike is only part of the equation.  It's most important to have a seat that fits you, good riding gear (rain suite and heated vest), and a helmet that fits....those bits will either make the trip fun or painful.


Peter Y.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: usedtobefast on September 22, 2018, 04:11:09 PM
What bike is your friend taking?  Having somewhat similar bikes would probably help a lot ... you'd both want to take similar routes/options (like the twisty route over the mountain vs. the Interstate faster route).

I've known buddy trips to go sideways due partly to bike choice ... and riding preference adding to it. 

I've heard all sorts of stories ...

One guy was a big schedule driven guy, so many miles a day, gotta see this, can't skip that, etc ... the other guy more just out to ride around and see what popped up.  So if something cool came along, like a classic car show in a small town, the first guy didn't want to stop (not in the plan, will mess up the plan, etc) and the second guy was like "wait, this is a really cool car show, we gotta check this out".   For this exact example I think they both ended up losing ... they stopped for a short period of time (so the guy wanting to see them didn't get to see that much), then scheduler guy decided they should skip some cool road and go a more direct route to make up time and get back on schedule.  Whew. 

one big mismatch ... one guy wanted to go to sleep around 9:30-10pm ish, get up early and hit it ... his riding buddy wanted to drink at night and stay up 11-12 and maybe crawl out of bed around 10am  ... they managed a 2 week trip together but I think 10am was the earliest they ever got on the road. 

And then little things ... one guy wanted a quick breakfast, quick lunch, and then nice dinner in the evening .... the other guy wanted big complete breakfast, big decent restaurant lunch, and then a nice restaurant dinner.  So each day they'd spend ~1 hr breakfast, ~1-1.5hr lunch, ~1.5 dinner. 

So another benefit of smaller 2-3 day "test" rides is to test how things go with your ridding buddy.   :grin:

Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: PeteS on September 22, 2018, 04:12:07 PM
To me the first most important quality of the bike for distance is riding position and seat comfort. Second is reliabilty. If you are thinking about your wrists or butt or knees within the first few hours you are going to be miserable within the first few days.
The majority of bikes made within the last 25 years could likely do this trip trouble free.
FWIW my first long trip was on my Norton in 1972. 8500 miles from western NY to the Pacific. It was a comfortable ride and I was carrying full camping and cook gear. I think we camped 80% or the time. Our longest day was 850 miles, something I have never equaled since. Lacked the reliability though.

 Don't box yourself in with limited choices. Definitely do a bunch of 3-400 miles rides before starting this trip.

Pete
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 22, 2018, 04:41:33 PM
 My friend might ride a Buell Ulysses or get a bike like me....I have a brain like a house cat, things have move or I fall asleep...I never make plans, never write anything down, just fire from the hip all the time...It's worked out ok so far....This trip will be more or less unrehearsed...I'll buy a bike, replace this and that take a few 100 mile rides, then with just a few days notice, hit the road and just adapt to the situations
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Darren Williams on September 22, 2018, 04:55:43 PM
Don't rule out the later model Bonnies. Good simple bikes that do well on a two lane tour but can do interstates.

You didn't say whether camping or not, so that is a consideration. Also, where you are doing might have fuel stations few and far between if out in the Western states. Big tanks/range is nice.

My wife taught me, through our many long MC trips, that whatever you must have that you didn't bring will be sold by someone along the way. Don't overpack!

Daniel Kalal is a master at packing for extended MC trips. Search out his trip reports and packing trips, time well spent. Very wise and experienced man.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: fotoguzzi on September 22, 2018, 05:41:55 PM
My friend might ride a Buell Ulysses  . 
Great choice, why not get a Uly for your self? the XT version is a little lower and designed more street oriented.. mine was a torq monster..

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Buell/i-hsjQRXg/0/b97a43c5/M/IMG_1961_zps8d40f592-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Buell/i-hsjQRXg/A)
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: malik on September 22, 2018, 06:44:54 PM
My cousin & I toured around Oz a couple of years back, some 30,000km (call it 18,000 miles) on my two V7s. It was a pleasant change to be riding bikes of the same speed, power & handling characteristics, not to say convenient - same tools, spares. It would have been even better if the tanks had been the same capacity - they are now (put the big tank onion after I got back). The same bike, or similar, is HIGHLY recommended. And if one of you are experienced with the bikes, that's a help too.

Reliability should not be an issue, as has been said above, with any bike made in the last few decades at least, and in some cases, earlier. On that around Oz trip we had a collapsed front wheel bearing ($26 from a local bearing shop), a broken shift lever (rebuilt locally by an aluminium welder for $30), a failed brake light switch (ordered by phone & sent to the shop where a new tyre had been organised) and a blown headlight globe. Other than a flat tyre each, that was it. And you can get out of carrying the tubes & tools for that if you manage to go tubeless. On another bike, on another around Oz trip, I needed a new set of clutch plates - a mate air freighted a set to a convenient airport only 800 miles away, and in the meantime, I met some very good people and had a failing rack welded up. Not really an inconvenience, but an opportunity. I always take along various spare parts, appropriate to the bike, little stuff that it would be inconvenient to wait for, (levers, indicators, globes, fuses, linkages, etc) but they are usually unused.

Great idea to practice - fun too. Get a start on sorting out your gear, and packing it efficiently. I am now comfortable with everything I need, and not too much extra, in 35-40kg (75-90lbs). When I first started it was twice that. Although weight is not the real problem, it's cubic capacity you'll need to refine. And you'll have to work out which camp chair works best for you.

It's vital that you sort out your coffee stuff - lots of info on the coffee forums (Sweet Maria, for example) & the adventure riding forums. At a minimum, I take the moka pot, a stove, roasted beans, a portable grinder, & a couple of glasses (I like my black coffee better in glass than in plastic or tin, but that's me). Replenish the beans along the way. Ensure you have some decent water the night before.

There's adventures heading your way.......
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: ohiorider on September 22, 2018, 07:25:09 PM
My choice for that kind of job is an old BMW R100GS, which for me is the best all around touring bike there is.  You can do tight roads, it can cruise smoothly along a motorway/interstate at 80 mph, it handles well and it's always comfortable.  Also, you have the reassurance that if it breaks, it's not going to be some annoying technology item that will be complex, time consuming or even impossible to resolve on the road. I have no time for newer BMWs, they annoy me, and I'm not a huge fan of late model Guzzis for the same reasons.

I've had an ST2 and now ST4 since 2009 or so.  These are special bikes to me because they are a thoroughbred sport bike that just happens to have higher bars and good hard luggage that looks great on the bike.  However, to really utilize an ST you need to be riding it pretty fast and hard.  Generally, that's not a practical proposition for many days in a row: first, the US doesn't have twisty roads that go on endlessly for days, and secondly even if you were 30 years old it'd get tiring after a week or so.  For one week in California the ST is my recommendation, but not for a long tour over a wider area unless maybe you were to customize the seat and bar setup very carefully. 

You might consider an older touring Guzzi, an SP or similar, if one of them suits you.  They don't handle as well as the R100GS (I've had plenty of experience on both) but they have many of the same attributes with a more relaxing gait that's soothing over many miles and days.  Just make sure you get the riding position and seat sorted out for your own preferences.
It's obviously a personal thing.  I'm a huge fan of the R100GS, having owned and ridden one since new in 1991.  I'll be picking mine up from the BMW tech's shop (independent) early next week.  She's had a lot of new stuff thrown at her .... clutch, petcocks, tranny bearings, new driveshaft, carb rebuild, on and on. 

Admittedly, these bikes aren't known for their brakes .... what with single disk front and cable operated drum on the rear.

There's just something about that spindly Beemer running down the highway at 5000rpm and 80mph that has always felt good to me ..... not at first, but after I owned the bike several months and begin putting some long distance miles on it.

This is the only bike I've owned that fit me perfectly.  I realize that's a fluke .... just saying.

However, some bikes fit a wide variety of body shapes.  My riding buddy Tom and I took our near-identical Triumph 790cc Bonnevilles on an extended ride in 2006.  I'm 5'8", Tom's is at least 6'.  Neither of our bikes had radical ergo mods, and yet both of us totally enjoyed riding several days and 4000+ miles on these relatively small bikes.

Good luck, Rough Edge,  on your choice of bikes for your first long distance ride.  And keep us posted on how it's going!

Bob
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Muzz on September 22, 2018, 09:09:51 PM
As far as a list of what to take goes I would suggest the list that Daniel Kalal posted not too long ago would be a good place to start.

As far as luggage goes, it all fitted in to a yellow bag on the back; very compact and well thought out after years of touring.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: wirespokes on September 22, 2018, 10:29:15 PM
I haven't ridden the Norge or any of the others mentioned - only the airhead beemer. I like the R100GS PD better than the R100RT, mostly because I don't like that bike of a fairing. But the R100RT does give good protection. I rode the GSPD across the country four years ago from Portland to eastern PA in three and a half days. I left late and that's why I didn't spend more time getting there, but I wasn't wiped out from the trip at all. It was very comfortable.

On the back roads, though, 300 to 400 miles is about it. And riding in the fall it gets dark earlier and you've got to be careful of dawn and dusk especially, due to deer. So it's a good idea stopping well before dark.

You're going to have fun - motorcycle trips are great! Of course there will be hardships to overcome, but that's what etches them into your memory. And definitely have the ergos sorted before leaving!
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on September 22, 2018, 11:20:41 PM
Starbucks Coffee sachets with Baileys Irish Cream are great for starting the day.
A small camping stove like an MSR Wisperlite.
Instant Oatmeal with Brown sugar is great to start the day, again a good slug of Baileys to take the place of cream.

I'm currently using a Griso for touring, so far this year an 8,000 km and a 4,700 km trip.
I did splurge $500 on a Corbin seat.
A low mileage California II would be another good Choice.
A Norge or Stelvio would definitely be on the radar if I wasn't so vertically challenged
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 23, 2018, 09:02:39 AM
 Ducati ST3 looks like it may be the bike for me...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Vagrant on September 23, 2018, 09:12:56 AM
Listen to Daniel and usedtobefast!
Go alone with two credit cards! Out of 50 so called riding buddies there might be one you will enjoy going the distance with.
You're 2K away from a new V7III stone.  Finance it over 2_3 years you won't be sorry.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Sheepdog on September 23, 2018, 10:08:29 AM
Any discomfort felt at 100 miles will become worse by an order of magnitude on day three. Careful ergonomic and service prep will make most any bike a good candidate for touring. As you prepare, remember that comfort, reliability, range, serviceability, and stability are the qualities you will appreciate down the road on a multi-day trip. Also bring along a large bottle of your favorite anti-inflammatory. Taking a couple two or three times a day will limit soreness and speed recovery. Finally, remember to bring at least a liter of water in the event of a breakdown...especia lly for out West. It's tough to make good decisions if you are dehydrated...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 23, 2018, 02:39:25 PM
Ducati ST3 looks like it may be the bike for me...

I took my first ST tour in 2002, several weeks on an ST2 rented in Milano.  I still remember the good feelings the bike gave me, exotic but practical is not a common combination, nor modern performance without a lot of widgets, and I loved it.  I've been riding them more or less ever since. 

If you go in the direction of an ST3, the following might be useful to factor in:  don't plan on a trip of more than 6,000 miles (10K Km), that's the valve check interval and it is not a 'stop briefly at a dealer' kind of thing, it's a multi day job.  If your itinerary is longer than that I'd preschedule the work with a known good shop and allow a two day break minimum. Similarly make sure the bike is fully up to speed before you leave on any trip, have the fairing off (a remarkably time consuming operation) and go through everything, leaving no stone unturned. I'd install a new AGM battery and a harness to charge the battery externally. Retorque the engine mounting boots. STs are reliable touring bikes but you do not want to be taking the fairing off for unscheduled issues in the middle of a trip.  Compared to a 916 for instance, I own and service both, the STs are much more time consuming for any job. 

Roadside oil changes are not a problem - that much was considered in the design and not a lot else is needed between major services (I change my oil at conservative 3,000 mile intervals)

The ST3 seat is good, better than an ST2 or 4, but you might consider different handlebars.  I have Helibars on my ST4 and like them. 

Make sure the chain in not too tight.  Sounds a bit basic, but the correct 32-mm slack on the center stand seems loose but when fully loaded you'll find all the slack is gone. You don't want to overstress the countershaft bearing on a long trip.

Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 23, 2018, 03:24:01 PM
 I'm familiar with Ducati two valve belt drive adjustments, the DOHC is just a lot  more of the same, LOL... My understanding is when ridden at more conservative touring speeds the valves stay in adjustment a lot longer...
 I have time to find a bike so my choice may change depending on what comes along...
 20 years ago I was involved in vintage Chevy PU trucks. I had a 37 PU  modified with a hot rodded vintage 302 GMC inline 6, different rear end gears and a 5 speed overdrive..The truck was lowered a few inches and had front disc brakes, but it was no cushy auto trans ,power steering AC equipped gold chain guy hot rod. It was hot ,cramped and very noisy inside..It could cruise at 75 MPH no problem but you had to pay attention and drive it. If it rained you got wet..I took it on several 1600 mile round trips with no stops other than fuel until I got to the destination .....A nice bike is probably much cushier than the truck....
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 23, 2018, 03:27:54 PM
I would plan on 3-4 times the labor hours to adjust the valves on an ST3 or ST4 when compared with a 2V Monster (which is the easiest of the bunch), 2-3 times for an ST2.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Moto on September 23, 2018, 03:53:29 PM
All of the above sounds good. Especially doing some 3-day trips first, and paring down what you take.

I recommend trips of a month or more, with no actual commitments to meet. Plans are OK, but not commitments.

My favorite trip was only 1000 miles, but it ran down the spine of Rockies and took a month. Camping, of course.

Also, bring a spit or skewer and make shish kabobs for dinner from steak, green peppers, onions, and tomatoes. Don't skimp on coffee preparations. Take a pint of hooch.

Talk to people you meet. Stay away from the crowded and/or violent parts of the country. Don't stay in cities.

Take a motorcycle you enjoy riding.

If the country were still the same as in 1974, the best guide would be The Complete Motorcycle Nomad, by the notorious and reviled Roger Lovin. Maybe you can get a copy and then ride those parts of the country where his advice is still applicable.

If possible, never come back. But then drop me a note explaining how you did it.

Moto
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 23, 2018, 04:07:39 PM
Quote
If possible, never come back. But then drop me a note explaining how you did it.

 :grin:
The rest of the information in this post is good, too..  :thumb:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Huzo on September 23, 2018, 04:19:58 PM
In the immortal words of Kath and Kim, I've got two words for you Roughie..
Daniel Kalal
And
Johnin VT....
I think they must be mind readers, exactly what I would have said but they are more succinct.
I always take my Norge and previous to that, a Triumph Sprint ST 1050.  The 1200 GS BMW was soulless, but did the job in a plastic bucket/wooden spoon kind of way.
I venture to say you will bond with anything on your first trip, just like remembering your first....ummm...... .
Experience..!
You might not remember your second, but you will love your first regardless.
Those guys (and a few others) really nailed it IMO. I would take a Beetled, properly tuned Norge and just go out and make some "mistakes", it's not the possession of knowledge that is the hidden gem...
It's the pursuit...
Enjoy, and please keep the thread alive along with the dream.
Will be a good one to follow.
Huzo.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: pyoungbl on September 23, 2018, 07:06:08 PM
No motorcycle is as visceral feeling as a Duck.  You will love it...until you don't.  The ST3 is probably the bastard of the bunch and combines the worst of either the ST2 or ST4.  Basically the 4 valve heads are so much harder to work on because you are dealing with so many small parts (that is after you get through the agony of taking off all that plastic) so the ST3 has that same small part problem due to the small exhaust valves.  I have talked to mechanics who thought that it was easier to simply take the heads off and do the valve check on the bench, rather than doing the job with the heads on the bike.  This can easily be an 8 hour job.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 23, 2018, 07:10:17 PM
Quote
This can easily be an 8 hour job.

Yep, the two valve Duck is nothin in comparison. I have never seen a loaded down 4V on a trip. There might be a reason for that..  :smiley:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: kingoffleece on September 23, 2018, 07:14:50 PM
Forget about the danger.  Just think of the fun!

Wait.  What was the question?
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 23, 2018, 07:22:22 PM
Basically the 4 valve heads are so much harder to work on because you are dealing with so many small parts (that is after you get through the agony of taking off all that plastic) so the ST3 has that same small part problem due to the small exhaust valves.  I have talked to mechanics who thought that it was easier to simply take the heads off and do the valve check on the bench, rather than doing the job with the heads on the bike.  This can easily be an 8 hour job.

Speaking as somebody who just had thd heads off and back on his ST4 recently, including valve shimming, my advice would be that it takes a great deal longer to remove the heads, assuming you know the tricks for doing them in place.  Eight hours is fast for doing the job with heads on the bike, but possible if not too many need adjustment. To remove heads, shim valves and replace heads would be at least 16 or maybe 24 hours for me if I wanted to do it right and damage nothing  It may be worth doing once on an earlier bike, to upgrade the head gaskets to the later type.

Other 4V head Ducs are easier all around, either way. The ST4 frame makes it tough compared with the Superbike (916-style) frame, and in addition the Superbike bodywork flies off and on in the most amazingly quick and well developed way.  I did a (most of) a 916 yesterday.

PS Chuck, my ST4 did a fine job of carrying me, my wife, three bags and a tank bag recently on a 2000 mile loop. Average fuel consumption was about 54 mpg at 5000 ft ish, fuel light came in at 224 miles in Utah with a gallon still to go.  I noted an ST3 with Canadian plates parked in Jackson WY.  Another local ST4 is for sale with 120K miles on the clock.   Also, some might remember the guy who did well on Iron Butt rides with an ST4 similar to mine.  Gary something or other?  He had few problems in a gigantic mileage and rode it from San Francisco to NYC in 37 hrs.  Now in the Barber Museum.


(https://thumb.ibb.co/nejm2U/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nejm2U)


Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: john fish on September 23, 2018, 07:29:36 PM
The obvious choice is the Norge. . .  but I'd take an EV Cali.  :)   Hell, I didn't like the styling either until I got one. Even then, the 'whale dong' tank takes a lot of getting used to.  Still, I did a few hundred miles today in the rain and my 2000 Jackal was a joy.  The 2V motor is anvil reliable with a broad spread of torque that makes it excellent on back roads, 4 lanes, and (today) a bit of gravel.  Honestly, the seating position was a tough sell for me with my history of Euro standard and sport bike ergos but now I'm quite used to it.

On top of all that, it's cheaper than any of your other options.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Cam3512 on September 23, 2018, 07:31:48 PM
Good luck on your search.  I can�t past the fact that you�ve been riding for 43 years and never strayed more than 100 miles.  I rode that to eat a crappy breakfast the other day.   Guzzi smallblock is the answer.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: jumpmaster on September 23, 2018, 10:30:37 PM
- if you fancy an older Guzzi, and want to do some preparation, check out the Mille GT.

Get yourself out there - it really is an adventure & riding your bike day in day out is a special experience. A warning though - it is addictive.

My only advice on using a Mille GT would be to take spare cables, or change them before the trip just to be safe - that's been a weak spot on my Mille & I've heard of others having similar experiences.  With a Hepco-Becker rack & bags it can be a credible long distance ride.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: usedtobefast on September 24, 2018, 12:01:22 AM
On the Ducati, service it before the ride, sell it after.   :grin:

I had an ST4S and did a few 4 days rides on it.  It is fairly comfortable, but something about it makes you really tired at the end of the day.  Could be it begs to be ridden hard so you do ... and that takes more mental and physical effort. 

I've given up on the tent idea.  Gotta carry too much junk, and a lot of camping spots are way off a paved road, kind of a pain to get to on a loaded down street bike. 

Morning coffee?  In a diner.   :grin:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 24, 2018, 05:33:15 AM
  My plans change by the day so don't get too excited about me actually getting a ST3...My neighbor has a dealer's license and buys and sells auction bikes..Some great deals come along, bikes with cosmetic damage that get written off by insurance companies, a salvage title doesn't bother me if the bike is right....I could also fit a faring and bags on my 900 Ducati Monster and call it good. :thumb:  No small block Guzzi's, I prefer a faster bike..But the Norge will always be a consideration..
  No tent camping is planned..I always traveled light on the vintage truck road trips and never missed what I didn't pack...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 24, 2018, 05:47:42 AM
Quote
PS Chuck, my ST4 did a fine job of carrying me, my wife, three bags and a tank bag recently on a 2000 mile loop.

I won't argue that it can't be done, especially by an accomplished Ducati enthusiast.. but.. there is a good sized Ducati dealer in Indy. I've seen many of them around, but none doing that.
I'm *not* a Ducati basher.. far from it. I rode nothing else for years. My last was an ST2. It was a fast great handling Sport touring bike, but not my choice by far for a "long road trip."  Gimme a Guzzi.  :grin:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Luap McKeever on September 24, 2018, 07:30:50 AM
I got back from a 3,151 mile, 7 day trip a couple weeks ago. The only thing I wished for was more time.  I averaged 450 miles per day and the longest day I had in the saddle was 12 hours flat at 804 miles. That was way too much and exhausting.  Plus, I visited 3 sets of people for around 36 hours each too. I wish now that I could have stretched it out to 12 or 14 days and went to see the Grand Canyon while I was only 100 miles away from it.  The way I did this trip was not too much fun, but much needed "me time".

Advice: Take your time. Enjoy things. If you see a historical marker sign, check it out. I say this because I wish I had.

Next year, I'm gonna do another solo trip to the Southeastern states and take my time. I might even tame the dragon.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: twowheeladdict on September 24, 2018, 09:14:23 AM
I have been riding since 1975 and have never ventured more than 100 miles from home...So...me and a friend are discussing a bucket list trip, a long tour of the USA by bike....Try to ride on back roads as much as possible but there will be some Interstate riding.
 Ok, my 79 Triumph and Ducati Monster are not suited for this... Because I like two cylinder bikes, because I like lighter bikes,because I like European bike I believe the choice is going to be a BMW R or a Guzzi Norge (I dislike the Cali styling) or a Ducati ST2 type...I have maybe $4000-5000 to spend on a bike..I would even consider a air head BMW with carbs because of simplicity... I can do whatever maintenance is necessary in my home shop..I have no interest in  heavy Japanese  touring bikes
  So what's your experience?

Now that you have a lot of advise on what bike to tour on, how about thinking about what roads to ride and what sights to see.

I wish I would have found this website 6 years ago when I started touring the US in my quest to ride all the lower 48.  I was fortunate enough to get road ideas from forums and by talking with locals when stopped but now my goal is to hit all of these roads.  35 done so far.  http://www.motorcycleroads.com/best/?s=75

There are other sources for good roads out there if you google them.  motorcycleroads.com is also a good source for other roads in the state you are visiting.  You can plan your trip by stringing as many of these roads together as you can.

Also, there are sources for unique roadside attractions or historic markers, etc.  I've ridden to the gulf coast from home countless times and to keep it interesting I would put the location of a bunch of historic markers in my GPS and then tell it to create best route to hit all the markers and get to my destination.  Doing that is best suited for an adventure style bike because "ignore dirt roads" doesn't really work on any GPS I have owned.

Unique Roadside Attractions
https://www.roadsideamerica.com/

Historical Marker Database
https://www.hmdb.org/

I have travelled loaded down with work and vacation related gear, and I have travelled with just some soft saddlebags and one change of clothes.  It all depends on what your goals are.  Until the Chinese tariffs kick in you can buy underwear and T-shirts at Walmart for a couple dollars each.  You can really travel light or heavy.  It all depends on your idea of adventure.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 24, 2018, 01:25:31 PM
 My neighbor with the dealer's license has a lead on a BMW RT100 for short money...Has some sort it won't start issue  and has been sitting in a heated garage for a few years....
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: PeteS on September 24, 2018, 01:33:30 PM
If its a post '81, you buy it and it has no spark let me know. I have spare hall effect pickup. No need to buy a new canister.

Pete
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: ohiorider on September 24, 2018, 01:54:53 PM
If its a post '81, you buy it and it has no spark let me know. I have spare hall effect pickup. No need to buy a new canister.

Pete
Good suggestion, Pete.  I took this approach.  My bean can began developing sticky advance mechanism so decided to upgrade from the older mechanical/electronic system to this unit from Motorrad Elektrik.

http://www.motoelekt.com/ignition.htm

I installed the model for 1981 - 1995 models in my 1991 R100GS approx 20,000 miles ago.  So far, so good
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 24, 2018, 02:25:47 PM
My bean can began developing sticky advance mechanism so decided to upgrade from the older mechanical/electronic system to this unit from Motorrad Elektrik.

http://www.motoelekt.com/ignition.htm

I installed the model for 1981 - 1995 models in my 1991 R100GS approx 20,000 miles ago.  So far, so good

Thank you for that info... I've been unaware of this unit.  My R100GS is worked on by a BMW AG factory employee (in Germany) who has 30 years experience on the bikes but does not acknowledge the existence of anything he can't get from the factory owned dealer parts counter.  I'll just hand him the Motorrad Eleckrik unit and ask him to install it.  I think based on the evidence that will permanently resolve my sticky ignition advance issues.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: PeteS on September 24, 2018, 02:37:20 PM
The canisters including the point type and hall effect both have conventional bob weights. The channels wear and the lugs get stuck in the groove. You can file the channels smooth and free them up for while. It should have no effect on full advance.
The first time my hall effect canister died I searched and searched for a Bosch Hall effect module. Couldn't find one so bought a new canister. Then by accident I was looking at a Honeywell catalog and saw the unit. Imagine Bosch using Honeywell components? I rebuilt it, modified for dual plugs and carried it with me. They would die out about every 50K miles and I would just swap them out and rebuild the one that failed. I posted the fix on the BMW forums decades ago.

https://sensing.honeywell.com/index.php?ci_id=50295&la_id=1

Pete
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 24, 2018, 03:53:03 PM
 Ok, I look at the BMW tomorrow....There's mention of a fuel pump...did any airheads have fuel pumps or were injected? Oh dear, maybe it's a K model............
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 24, 2018, 04:23:18 PM
Ok, I look at the BMW tomorrow....There's mention of a fuel pump...did any airheads have fuel pumps or were injected? Oh dear, maybe it's a K model............

No, no R100 or earlier BMW had a fuel pump or fuel injection.  My R100GS has a little over 100K miles and has been very reliable and easy to maintain for going on 30 years.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: oilhed on September 24, 2018, 04:37:07 PM
Ducati ST3 looks like it may be the bike for me...
I loved mine but don't listen to that evil voice in your head

You can't go into a curve THAT fast and brake THAT late
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 24, 2018, 04:37:41 PM
Ok, I look at the BMW tomorrow....There's mention of a fuel pump...did any airheads have fuel pumps or were injected? Oh dear, maybe it's a K model............

No, they are like a Guzzi only boring.  :evil:  :smiley:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: malik on September 24, 2018, 05:57:05 PM
No camping? I think you're missing out, but that's me. However, I was very impressed when I chanced upon a GSXR 750 rider who so loved his new bike he took long service leave & started riding - full leathers with liner, a tank bra with 2 small pockets for a wallet & a phone. And that was it. He'd done 40,000 km in 3 months. I can see the attraction - no luggage, stay in pubs, wash the liner each night - just ride. Way to go.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rich A on September 24, 2018, 06:21:39 PM
I might add a comment regarding helmets on road trips. Try to make sure your helmet is comfortable for the long haul. Most of mine have gotten at least a little uncomfortable after 3 to 5 hrs. The worst have become downright painful after 1 to 2 hrs.

Rich A
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: gliderjohn on September 24, 2018, 07:00:12 PM
As the owner of a 2012 Norge, it is a great road bike that will eat the miles but...in any significant side wind the wind will curl up from the windward side and dope slap the crap out of your head, I mean bad. Change of windshield or different height settings make no difference.
GliderJohn
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 25, 2018, 10:16:10 AM
As the owner of a 2012 Norge, it is a great road bike that will eat the miles but...in any significant side wind the wind will curl up from the windward side and dope slap the crap out of your head, I mean bad. Change of windshield or different height settings make no difference.
GliderJohn

Yep, BTDT..
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 25, 2018, 10:58:08 AM
 I looked at the bikes I mentioned..The owner is 81 years old and say in the last few years he has lost the ability to ride a bike safely..Two BMW's.. A 73-1/2 750 with a Windjammer fairing, 80,000 miles in original condition..It has not been used in 12 years, the engine turned over with the kick start....I'm not interested in a 750 BMW drum brake bike for touring...The second bike is a 2000 1150RT with 9500 miles. Last ran in 2009. I was in excellent shape, but..The owner said he tried to start it 8 years ago but the fuel pump didn't run...I didn't like the style all that much, the fuel pump problem might be just a fuse, a pump or an expensive ECU.Seems a bit odd the guy let it sit all this time rather than repairing it..Both machines would need total servicing ,new tires, batteries....He said both for $3500 with titles in his name....My neighbor is on the fence about buying them to resell once they are running....
  I'm far more interested in a big bore Guzzi or Ducati  ST2.....
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Moto on September 25, 2018, 11:06:50 AM
As the owner of a 2012 Norge, it is a great road bike that will eat the miles but...in any significant side wind the wind will curl up from the windward side and dope slap the crap out of your head, I mean bad. Change of windshield or different height settings make no difference.
GliderJohn

Well that is one thing in favor of a Griso with a flyscreen and a cruise control as a long distance tourer. No buffeting, though rain protection requires an additional screen.

The riding position of a Griso is also a matter of taste, and even I have to admit that it gets old on long hauls, especially for my legs. The passenger pegs aren't that much better, I find.

Moto
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: malik on September 25, 2018, 02:37:41 PM
The 1150 BMW? I've Guzzi riding friends who have or have had these in their stable, and, once sorted, have been singularly impressed. But, the styling is, shall we say, unfortunate. A Guzzi big block sounds a much more appealing alternative - a 2V 1200 Sport, a V11, even an SP - now you're cooking with gas. Don't settle for reasonable, or sensible, get something that excites. For Me, it's the 1100 Sport that does it - I have found it to be the most most comfortable long distance tourer ever - 5'11 (used to 5'11 & 1/2), 175lb, & reasonably flexible - muscle aches at the end of the first day, not a twinge thereafter - a bit of a challenge to fit gear onto, but then you're not camping - but that bike is exciting, just sitting there, parked, exciting at idle, that lumpy engine & rattle of the floating discs crawling in 1st, & on the open road & sweepers - sublime. Mind you, it's not the ideal bike for gravel roads, nor for sustained tight twisties but it makes up for it everywhere else.


(https://thumb.ibb.co/gbrqHU/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gbrqHU)


Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: ScepticalScotty on September 25, 2018, 06:18:51 PM
1200 Sport with hard luggage seems like a really good option to me. I tour all over the place on my Breva750 with 2 x HB cases and a Guzzi tankbag. Happy as Larry.

Great advice to start out with 4 day trips, sort of like breaking yourself in gently. I believe there is such a thing as "bike fit" where if I have not done a longer trip for a while I get really tired the first day or two before I settle into it. As Luap says, take your time and see the sights. Especially on the first big one. Chill out.

I often tour with a freind on his Norge and our plan is we have no plan! We have a good breakfast, set off about 9am, very light lunch in the middle of the day (bagette and cheese in France, jamon serrano and cheese baggette in Catalonia, and then ride until 5 ish and start looking for a hotel. Shower get changed and hit the town and see the sights!! Repeat next day etc etc...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: ohiorider on September 25, 2018, 07:20:24 PM
1200 Sport with hard luggage seems like a really good option to me. I tour all over the place on my Breva750 with 2 x HB cases and a Guzzi tankbag. Happy as Larry.

Great advice to start out with 4 day trips, sort of like breaking yourself in gently. I believe there is such a thing as "bike fit" where if I have not done a longer trip for a while I get really tired the first day or two before I settle into it. As Luap says, take your time and see the sights. Especially on the first big one. Chill out.

I often tour with a freind on his Norge and our plan is we have no plan! We have a good breakfast, set off about 9am, very light lunch in the middle of the day (bagette and cheese in France, jamon serrano and cheese baggette in Catalonia, and then ride until 5 ish and start looking for a hotel. Shower get changed and hit the town and see the sights!! Repeat next day etc etc...
My 1200 Sport has become slightly top-heavy (for me) for riding around town with lots of stops, but for a road trip of several hundred miles a day, my 2v Sport is a delight.  I have mine outfitted with Bagster tank bra (cover,) small Bagster tank bag for rain suit, camera, and a few other odds and ends, Hepco Becker mounts and HB 30 Liter hard bags (with liners.)  Also a rear rack (HB) that doesn't get installed until I need to carry tent, sleeping bag, etc.  Also installed an Aprilia Mana handlebar and adjustable footpegs adjusted slightly forward and lower.

I like riding without a barn door windshield.  The small 1200 Sport bikini fairing, plus the shape of the fuel tank, gives me all the protection I need, in combination with a full face helmet. I'm 5'8", 160#, with 30" inseam.

CARC Forever!

Bob


(https://thumb.ibb.co/g9Xju9/IMG_3031.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g9Xju9)


Here she is, without tank bag and rear rack.  Still ready for a road trip!
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Lannis on September 25, 2018, 09:14:43 PM
I got back from a 3,151 mile, 7 day trip a couple weeks ago. The only thing I wished for was more time.  I averaged 450 miles per day and the longest day I had in the saddle was 12 hours flat at 804 miles. That was way too much and exhausting.  Plus, I visited 3 sets of people for around 36 hours each too. I wish now that I could have stretched it out to 12 or 14 days and went to see the Grand Canyon while I was only 100 miles away from it.  The way I did this trip was not too much fun, but much needed "me time".

Advice: Take your time. Enjoy things. If you see a historical marker sign, check it out. I say this because I wish I had.

Next year, I'm gonna do another solo trip to the Southeastern states and take my time. I might even tame the dragon.

Fay and I are in the middle of what's turning out to be a month long 7 or 8000 mile ride. We're being flexible, stopping to see what we want, picking each day's route the night before from a road atlas. My max cruising speed is 75, our average speed (ignition-on time) is 45.6, we stop at pretty overlooks, stay in older courtyard motels ($66 tonight), we'd never make any time if we were camping. We're in a groove now and the ride is getting better. Oklahoma 'the hard way' tomorrow, starting at the west end of the panhandle and taking 64 and 60 across.

Lannis
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: jumpmaster on September 25, 2018, 10:24:56 PM
Fay and I are in the middle of what's turning out to be a month long 7 or 8000 mile ride. We're being flexible, stopping to see what we want, picking each day's route the night before from a road atlas.

My spouse & I have done 4 1K+ mile trips this spring & summer, the longest one about 2.5K miles.  I'm inclined, on my own, to aim for 700 to 1,000 mile days, but my wife has tamed my enthusiasm considerably down to 350 - 500 mile days.  Her technique is to get us enrolled in Tour of Honor riding, which encourages me to get off the big roads and into small towns along the way to where we're going; I try to pick at least 2 side-trips/stops per day, to break up the ride.  Any similar "hobby" to combine with the ride itself (I.e. national/state parks, famous or obscure old roadside attractions, etc.) will do the same thing. 
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 26, 2018, 06:10:54 AM
  Lannis, what bike are you and Fay riding?

  I'm not the guy for pounding down the Interstate all day long unless I was being chased by killer clowns...I also like a bike that looks like a bike and not a jelly bean with wheels...And a bike with thrust when the throttle is rolled is a must. ..
 I'm thinking now that something like a Guzzi sport or a big bore Ducati with just enough fairing to make it reasonably comfortable is good.  Paying attention to the seating and handlebars to suit me would go a long ways..
  There's many  Buells out there for reasonable prices..I had a Buell but not sure I want to go there again...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: twowheeladdict on September 26, 2018, 07:35:01 AM
  Lannis, what bike are you and Fay riding?

  I'm not the guy for pounding down the Interstate all day long unless I was being chased by killer clowns...I also like a bike that looks like a bike and not a jelly bean with wheels...And a bike with thrust when the throttle is rolled is a must. ..
 I'm thinking now that something like a Guzzi sport or a big bore Ducati with just enough fairing to make it reasonably comfortable is good.  Paying attention to the seating and handlebars to suit me would go a long ways..
  There's many  Buells out there for reasonable prices..I had a Buell but not sure I want to go there again...

I believe he is on one of these.

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1461/13716103/24671467/412335035.jpg)

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1461/13716103/24671467/412335029.jpg)

An amazing motorcycle for putting down the miles and handles the curvy roads really nice.  Best handling sport touring bike I have ridden.

Electronic suspension, electric windshield, heated grips, accessory outlets, bluetooth, etc. 
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: jumpmaster on September 26, 2018, 07:49:26 AM
I
An amazing motorcycle for putting down the miles and handles the curvy roads really nice.  Best handling sport touring bike I have ridden.

Electronic suspension, electric windshield, heated grips, accessory outlets, bluetooth, etc.

Any mechanical issues in the time you've owned it?  I test rode one last spring, thinking to downsize from my Harley, but my designated passenger wasn't as impressed as I was with the bike.  She's also leery of the lack of a strong dealer network outside of major metro areas...  She has the same issue with the Norge.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: oilhed on September 26, 2018, 08:05:48 AM
I like riding without a barn door windshield.  The small 1200 Sport bikini fairing, plus the shape of the fuel tank, gives me all the protection I need, in combination with a full face helmet. I'm 5'8", 160#, with 30" inseam.

CARC Forever!

Bob


(https://thumb.ibb.co/g9Xju9/IMG_3031.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g9Xju9)


Here she is, without tank bag and rear rack.  Still ready for a road trip!

Beauty bike.  Great model!  The H&B bags look right, too.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: PeteS on September 26, 2018, 08:23:34 AM
Rough, you can't go wrong with any 3 cylinder Triumph. 800-1200. My Tiger 800 makes. 82 RWHP, torque everywhere, 12 second 1/4ers, 128 top. Times similar to a buell.  They get quicker from there. You can find them in your price range.

Pete
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Lannis on September 26, 2018, 08:33:06 AM
  Lannis, what bike are you and Fay riding?

  I'm not the guy for pounding down the Interstate all day long unless I was being chased by killer clowns...I also like a bike that looks like a bike and not a jelly bean with wheels...And a bike with thrust when the throttle is rolled is a must. ..
 I'm thinking now that something like a Guzzi sport or a big bore Ducati with just enough fairing to make it reasonably comfortable is good.  Paying attention to the seating and handlebars to suit me would go a long ways..
  There's many  Buells out there for reasonable prices..I had a Buell but not sure I want to go there again...

We're on our Triumph Trophy 1215 triple. As noted, all day comfort, 130 horsepower so you can pass anything anywhere, low maintenance, handles great. A LOT like the Stelvio except it growls instead of thumps...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 26, 2018, 09:23:14 AM
  I really prefer a two cylinder V twin with just a fairing...I want to suffer a bit... :grin:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Moto on September 26, 2018, 10:15:45 AM
  I really prefer a two cylinder V twin with just a fairing...I want to suffer a bit... :grin:

Well, maybe you *should* consider a Griso. They are pretty good on gravel too, in my experience. (Concerning real gravel, consult Kiwi_Roy's post about his recent trip to the Arctic Circle on his Griso 1100!)

They pack up well enough for camping if you ever decide to try that too:


(https://thumb.ibb.co/dVJFK9/image.png) (https://ibb.co/dVJFK9)
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 26, 2018, 11:07:45 AM
 Seller offered me this bike for $3300....Not an Italian V twin but reasonably light weight, simple and looks like motorcycle..It won't be as punchy as a big Guzzi or Ducati but for solo riding it'll run at high speed no problem..I have never ridden a BMW like this, I expect the bike to pitch around some during gear changes and have reasonable handling and smooth at high speeds?  I might go look at it ...

       https://buffalo.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1982-bmw-r100/6698488614.html (https://buffalo.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1982-bmw-r100/6698488614.html)
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: twowheeladdict on September 26, 2018, 11:48:17 AM
Any mechanical issues in the time you've owned it?  I test rode one last spring, thinking to downsize from my Harley, but my designated passenger wasn't as impressed as I was with the bike.  She's also leery of the lack of a strong dealer network outside of major metro areas...  She has the same issue with the Norge.

I only owned this one 10,000 miles and one year.  In that time I has warped front rotors.  The ride was amazing but the weather protection was so good I couldn't stand riding it from April to October while wearing protective riding gear.  In hindsight I should have kept it for a winter bike and traded my Road Glide Ultra for a Road King Special. 

My local dealer lost Triumph and the next closest was 2 1/2 hours away.  It was summer and I was motivated to make a trade.

It has a tall seat height and holds 7 or more gallons of fuel so it feels heavier at a light than the Road Glide. 

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1461/13716103/24671467/412040747.jpg)
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Huzo on September 26, 2018, 11:53:26 AM
  I really prefer a two cylinder V twin with just a fairing...I want to suffer a bit... :grin:
I reckon that's an astute observation RE..
If you don't feel a bit rooted at the end of the day, you might as well have gone in a bloody beige Toyota Camry wearing your favourite cream cardigan and apricot cravat, with a Stars and Stripes head scarf so you feel a bit "edgy"..!
The damn thing is a motorbike...!
Grisseling about the "buffeting" is soft as...
Wind is the world of reality telling you you're doing something different that the cagers will never feel..
Embrace it..!
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Huzo on September 26, 2018, 12:04:26 PM
Well, maybe you *should* consider a Griso. They are pretty good on gravel too, in my experience. (Concerning real gravel, consult Kiwi_Roy's post about his recent trip to the Arctic Circle on his Griso 1100!)

They pack up well enough for camping if you ever decide to try that too:


(https://thumb.ibb.co/dVJFK9/image.png) (https://ibb.co/dVJFK9)

Another few hundred k's North and it becomes ice/gravel..
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 26, 2018, 12:55:29 PM
Seller offered me this bike for $3300....Not an Italian V twin but reasonably light weight, simple and looks like motorcycle..It won't be as punchy as a big Guzzi or Ducati but for solo riding it'll run at high speed no problem..I have never ridden a BMW like this, I expect the bike to pitch around some during gear changes and have reasonable handling and smooth at high speeds?  I might go look at it ...

       https://buffalo.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1982-bmw-r100/6698488614.html (https://buffalo.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1982-bmw-r100/6698488614.html)

An '82 R100S is a pleasant, low key motorcycle with about the same engine performance as a Guzzi of the same era.  Plenty smooth at speed.  The chassis and brakes are not as good as the Guzzi (this was the case until the later paralever equipped BMWs) but depending on how you're built the BMW's comfort may be higher.  A point to watch for on 1980-84 BMWs is receding valves, in 1980 they changed the seat material to address unleaded fuel and in tried-and-true BMW fashion made the problem much worse.   I believe sometime about 1985 they came up with a solution that actually works and to update an earlier bike you need new valves and (importantly) new valve seats.

Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 26, 2018, 02:47:00 PM
An '82 R100S is a pleasant, low key motorcycle with about the same engine performance as a Guzzi of the same era.  Plenty smooth at speed.  The chassis and brakes are not as good as the Guzzi (this was the case until the later paralever equipped BMWs) but depending on how you're built the BMW's comfort may be higher.  A point to watch for on 1980-84 BMWs is receding valves, in 1980 they changed the seat material to address unleaded fuel and in tried-and-true BMW fashion made the problem much worse.   I believe sometime about 1985 they came up with a solution that actually works and to update an earlier bike you need new valves and (importantly) new valve seats.

 Thanks for the info...I'm 6 foot ,175 lbs ....I have the 900 Monster for hooligan riding, the 79 Triumph 750 for hooligan riding...So a third bike should be a "pleasant low key" bike... it's two hours from home, taking a trailer  money and Pretus Rocks from this site who owns a airhead BMW... The bike has full service records and an actual 66,000 miles...So the valve work might be done...or ready to be done...The seller claims he would not hesitate to ride it cross country ....
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Moto on September 26, 2018, 03:07:50 PM
Thanks for the info...I'm 6 foot ,175 lbs ....I have the 900 Monster for hooligan riding, the 79 Triumph 750 for hooligan riding...So a third bike should be a "pleasant low key" bike... it's two hours from home, taking a trailer  money and Pretus Rocks from this site who owns a airhead BMW... The bike has full service records and an actual 66,000 miles...So the valve work might be done...or ready to be done...The seller claims he would not hesitate to ride it cross country ....
You never know. I felt the same way about buying and riding a then comparably old R90/6 on a 1500 mile junket. The shift return spring broke and jammed the shifter hundreds of miles away from anyone who would service it. I wound up riding in second gear all the way up the coasts of Oregon and Washington. Sometimes old bikes are just old bikes, no matter what their reputation was as new bikes.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 26, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
You never know. I felt the same way about buying and riding a then comparably old R90/6 on a 1500 mile junket. The shift return spring broke and jammed the shifter hundreds of miles away from anyone who would service it. I wound up riding in second gear all the way up the coasts of Oregon and Washington. Sometimes old bikes are just old bikes, no matter what their reputation was as new bikes.

FYI for next time, if you flip the BMW upside down you can shift it to third gear and that works better for getting 'home'   :grin:  An old 'GS in the middle of nowhere' trick.  Or you could use one of these...

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/emergency-shifting-tool.htm  (home made)

http://www.boxer2valve.com/motorcycle/2399541.html (store bought)

As with V11 Sports, shifter springs on airhead BMWs break occasionally, and did so then as much as now.  Its not really an old bike thing.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 26, 2018, 07:17:04 PM
Quote
As with V11 Sports, shifter springs on airhead BMWs break occasionally,

We've cured that V11 Sport pawl spring issue.  :smiley:

Quote
An '82 R100S is a pleasant, low key motorcycle with about the same engine performance as a Guzzi of the same era.  Plenty smooth at speed.  The chassis and brakes are not as good as the Guzzi (this was the case until the later paralever equipped BMWs) but depending on how you're built the BMW's comfort may be higher.  A point to watch for on 1980-84 BMWs is receding valves, in 1980 they changed the seat material to address unleaded fuel and in tried-and-true BMW fashion made the problem much worse.   I believe sometime about 1985 they came up with a solution that actually works and to update an earlier bike you need new valves and (importantly) new valve seats.

I've had an R100RT, and my 79 G5 would out perform it in any measurable way.. and.. not have a boring engine.  :evil: :wink:
Austin, the kid that is working in my shop, was brought up in a BMW family. I sent him out on the G5, and he immediately started looking for one. <shrug>
Get a Guzzi..  :smiley:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 26, 2018, 07:41:05 PM
I have about 150K miles on a LeMans and a 1000SP combined as well as maybe 80k on R100GS's.  The best engine performance would be the LeMans, the SP engine performance is about the same as the BMW. 

Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 26, 2018, 07:44:36 PM
I have about 150K miles on a LeMans and a 1000SP combined as well as maybe 80k on R100GS's.  The best engine performance would be the LeMans, the SP engine performance is about the same as the BMW.

Not the same "character" though.. <shrug>  :smiley: Yeah, I had a 1000SP, too.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 26, 2018, 07:50:16 PM
Read a contemporary test on a small valve Guzzi with 30-mm carbs and you'll find that its probably the slowest accelerating large motorcycle that was then available.

1000SP quarter mile in 14.29 seconds at 91 mph

http://www.yeoldecycleshoppe.com/roadtestlibrary/2016/11/1/1979-moto-guzzi-1000-sp-road-test

BMW R100CS quarter mile in 13.18 seconds at 101 mph

http://www.yeoldecycleshoppe.com/roadtestlibrary/2017/1/5/1981-bmw-r100cs-road-test

(Both tests by Cycle World)

There are other aspects to engine performance that I think overcome the touring Guzzi's notably slow acceleration and make it overall about the same as the BMW in engine performance.  Also, you can install 36-mm carbs and lighten the flywheel, which in combination probably make it accelerate roughly as well.

Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: oilhed on September 26, 2018, 09:05:52 PM
Not the same "character" though.. <shrug>  :smiley: Yeah, I had a 1000SP, too.

I wanted a 1000SP, could only afford a V65SP. Couldn't even afford to look at BMWs. In to 80's fresh outta college and just married.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: gliderjohn on September 26, 2018, 09:10:38 PM
From oilhead:
Quote
I wanted a 1000SP, could only afford a V65SP. Couldn't even afford to look at BMWs. In to 80's fresh outta college and just married.
Don't feel bad. I was in the same boat in 1979 and bought a 77 Suzuki GS400 with 5K miles for $800. But it did serve me well for 40K miles until I could obtain a Guzzi.
GliderJohn
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Moto on September 26, 2018, 10:27:33 PM
FYI for next time, if you flip the BMW upside down you can shift it to third gear and that works better for getting 'home'   :grin:  An old 'GS in the middle of nowhere' trick.  Or you could use one of these...

As with V11 Sports, shifter springs on airhead BMWs break occasionally, and did so then as much as now.  Its not really an old bike thing.

Hmm, you may be right. Now that I think about it, it turned out the spring had been replaced about two months earlier in a transmission rebuild done by the local BMW dealer. The cost of the spring on the invoice was something like $1.50. Of course it cost much, much more to get it all fixed up in Bremerton, Washington, the nearest place to Crater Lake, Oregon, that would work on my bike.

As for those tools, it's a bad sign indeed if BMW riders were taking such things with them. I was fooled by my generalized impression of "BMW quality" into buying an old one as a dependable ride for a long triangle route through backroads of Idaho, Oregon and Washington. I wish I'd known about this issue. Never again. I won't be needing the tool, but thanks for the tip.

Moto

Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Lannis on September 26, 2018, 10:41:45 PM
I only owned this one 10,000 miles and one year.  In that time I has warped front rotors.  The ride was amazing but the weather protection was so good I couldn't stand riding it from April to October while wearing protective riding gear.  In hindsight I should have kept it for a winter bike and traded my Road Glide Ultra for a Road King Special. 

My local dealer lost Triumph and the next closest was 2 1/2 hours away.  It was summer and I was motivated to make a trade.

It has a tall seat height and holds 7 or more gallons of fuel so it feels heavier at a light than the Road Glide. 

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1461/13716103/24671467/412040747.jpg)

Fifteen thousand miles and never a hiccup with ours. Ten thousand miles between oil changes, it's a great two up ride. 350 mile range really helps when you are exploring western county and state roads, and I've got a lowered seat and lowered pegs to make the weight easier for this old man to handle...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Moto on September 26, 2018, 11:35:04 PM
Read a contemporary test on a small valve Guzzi with 30-mm carbs and you'll find that its probably the slowest accelerating large motorcycle that was then available.

Check out these test results obtained in 1975 through 1978:


(https://thumb.ibb.co/dSKSj9/The_MIRA_Files_table.png) (https://ibb.co/dSKSj9)



The MIRA testing station is/was apparently some big deal in Britain, a standard of accuracy. The tester for the British magazine Motor Cycle reports in June, 1975, the T3 "beating a Norton Commando 850 on top speed and matching it for acceleration over the quarter mile" in tests done there. He continues, "By any reckoning, a mean top speed of 116.9 mph and a best one way of just over 119 mph was pretty good. And, for a tourer, 14.3 seconds over the quarter mile [at 95.1 mph] was more than adequate for most needs." -- reported by the original Motor Cycle magazine tester in 1975 (name lost by me) in Classic and Motorcycle Mechanics, October, 2001, p. 61.

Not disputing the comparison to a 1000cc R100 tested six years later, but in the mid-1970's context the Guzzis were doing just fine.

Moto
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 27, 2018, 06:03:33 AM
 Hmm....Looks like I'm having a brief love affair with the BMW R100S...The sellers said the service records don't show any receipts for valve work other than adjustments...It's no big deal for me to pull the heads and seat replacement ....might be 400 bucks for parts and machine work...not that I can't afford it...but the BMW in general may lack what I'm looking for..Perhaps I'll wait for an affordable V11 Sport.....Or another Ducati...What I do know is the big modern 650 pound fully faired sport tourers are for other riders, they are not for me...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Petrus Rocks on September 27, 2018, 06:17:49 AM
I find the chase for the next bike exhilarating :popcorn:
Until you sit on it and ride it you never know...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Aaron D. on September 27, 2018, 06:23:12 AM
Shocked you don't just grab a Sportster and have at it. Stay off the interstate when possible, stay in hotels, get off the road before dark.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: PeteS on September 27, 2018, 06:46:25 AM
Hard to believe the BMW could go 60k miles on original valves and seats. The mechanic at out or local dealer had an identical '83 RT like mine. His valves got sucked into the head at 19k. Mine were shot at '23k. Also a CS being 1 second faster in the 1/4er than and RT. The fairing isn't that heavy and the engine and gearing were identical. I think only the '78s got the sport cam.

Pete
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: twowheeladdict on September 27, 2018, 07:24:04 AM
Fifteen thousand miles and never a hiccup with ours. Ten thousand miles between oil changes, it's a great two up ride. 350 mile range really helps when you are exploring western county and state roads, and I've got a lowered seat and lowered pegs to make the weight easier for this old man to handle...

The 10,000 miles I put on the Trophy were all touring miles.  It was by far the best handling, best suspended, best weather protection "touring" bike I have ever owned.  I could ride all day with temps in the 40s and never miss a beat.  Curvy roads were not a problem for this bike either.  But here in the southeast it was miserable to be on that bike when the temps warmed up. 


Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 27, 2018, 08:24:31 AM
 I'm on the Lemans 4 in the swap meet here....It's just what I wanted, an Italian V twin with some thrust 
"
  Pete S, the seller supposedly has all the repair receipts from the first owner and he says there no mention of "expensive engine repairs..Reading on the Internet it's seems the valve seat jobs were done well before 60,000 miles...So who knows, maybe it was done...But there's always the few that last longer than average before chronic problems show up...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: JJ on September 27, 2018, 08:47:45 AM
The next long, overnight, weekend "ROAD TRIP" for me, (426 miles one way), is the 2nd annual SOCAL N.A.R. @ Lake Henshaw Resort, CA :thumb: :cool: :smiley:


(https://thumb.ibb.co/dQRpgp/Screen_Shot_2018_09_27_at_6_46_27_AM.png) (https://ibb.co/dQRpgp)
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: oilhed on September 27, 2018, 10:02:08 AM
I'm on the Lemans 4 in the swap meet here....It's just what I wanted, an Italian V twin with some thrust 

SWEET  :gotpics:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: PeteS on September 27, 2018, 10:23:08 AM
I'm on the Lemans 4 in the swap meet here....It's just what I wanted, an Italian V twin with some thrust 
"
 

Now your talkin'. Looks like your patience paid off. This will be way more fun than any airhead for sure.

Pete
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on September 27, 2018, 10:32:40 AM
I'm on the Lemans 4 in the swap meet here....It's just what I wanted, an Italian V twin with some thrust 
"
  Pete S, the seller supposedly has all the repair receipts from the first owner and he says there no mention of "expensive engine repairs..Reading on the Internet it's seems the valve seat jobs were done well before 60,000 miles...So who knows, maybe it was done...But there's always the few that last longer than average before chronic problems show up...

You might want a Corbin seat. Bought a Le Mans 1000 new in '86 (when I was 23) and lived with the stock seat through two long trips. One to the Guzzi rally in Rockingham, NC and a five day trip with my brother up to Watkins Glen and Ogdensburg, NY. After the NY trip, I immediately ordered a Corbin seat! 
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 27, 2018, 11:30:24 AM
The LM IV looks like a good deal, looks to need some cosmetic work but low mileage and apparently all there.  A consideration for me in using it for long distance touring would be whether I could get hard, lockable luggage for it, and the price for that luggage - I don't like leaving stuff on the bike unlocked at every lunch break.  Otherwise a LM IV with 18 inch front wheel is really a pleasant touring bike, with the right seat.  Better on open roads than tight stuff, but workable anywhere.

Corbin seats are odd, some of them are just awful in my experience, worse than stock, while others work well.  FWIW I found the Corbin LM IV to be one of the better ones for my behind, in conjunction with Agostini rearset foot controls.  It all depends on your body.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 27, 2018, 12:54:13 PM


   I have been in touch with the owner....two problems, a previous on the fence buyer who now interested...He gets first dibs.....Secondly the bike has a Florida title in the previous owners name......

  Still looking....
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Aaron D. on September 27, 2018, 03:03:19 PM
Too bad, the LMIV is a pretty comfy high speed tourer.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: twowheeladdict on September 27, 2018, 05:48:35 PM

   Secondly the bike has a Florida title in the previous owners name......

  Still looking....

Big red flag right there. 
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Bob Wegman on September 27, 2018, 08:06:01 PM
Tony,  When are you planning on starting your trip?
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 28, 2018, 05:14:51 AM
Tony,  When are you planning on starting your trip?

  Bob, well, I need to find a bike or install a small fairing on my Monster...the actual trip? I have no plans as of yet.. I don't really plan too far ahead anyways...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: davevv on September 29, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Your buddy's Ulysses is an outstanding touring bike and this version of the Sportster motor is 103hp stock.  I bought this one new in 2007.  The only bike I ever toured on that was more comfortable was a Road King.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Travel/Alaska-trip/i-QwJz7jr/0/8a58ecd6/XL/2007_0707Alaska0052-XL.jpg)

I've done the Norge as well, an '08 two valve.  Thousands of miles around Texas, to Key West and back, Barber vintage festival, etc.  I love the way this bike will eat miles.  Not quite as comfy as the Ulysses (for me) but not bad either. 
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Marques/Moto-Guzzi-folder/08-Norge/i-swCgLcs/0/cc794011/XL/DSC01076-XL.jpg)

Either of these would be an excellent choice.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Petrus Rocks on September 29, 2018, 02:08:17 PM
I'm the one with the Uly- Isyours a stock seat with a sheepskin?  Currently have a Corbin on but it's too hard.  Did you ever want highway pegs of some sort?
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 29, 2018, 06:05:00 PM
 I found a bike about 100 miles away , 98 Ducati ST2, 35,000 miles, 2700 bucks...Has the Ducati hard bags, aftermarket higher  clips ons and  Staintune mufflers...So now I have two Ducatis and a 79 Triumph...Stopped at a hillbilly bar for a great chicken sandwich ...

               (https://i.imgur.com/nUtZ09Dh.jpg)


       
     
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Huzo on September 29, 2018, 06:55:30 PM
So you've pulled the trigger and done it..?
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Petrus Rocks on September 30, 2018, 10:11:56 AM
Tony pulled the trigger.  I saw the bike yesterday.  very clean.  good cosmetics.  Bodywork should be coming off soon.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 30, 2018, 10:52:09 AM
Looks good! The ST4 I bought this year has the same Helibars and Staintunes, which BTW are both excellent and were both very expensive new.

Since this is a '98 I'd recommend you research and resolve the alternator and regulator issues that are unique to that year and this model of Ducati. Your bike has a single phase, high output PM alternator that would fry stators.  There was a factory update that added a slinger to throw more oil on the stator.  Also, the factory regulator was poor and would fail.  You cannot update either component to '99-on three phase spec because the crankshaft is different but if the slinger update is done and a different regulator adapted the '98 system can be made reliable without spending a fortune.

If the fuel filter hasn't been replaced recently, replace it and the associated rubber lines in the fuel tank  A clogged filter increases load on the fuel pump which increases load on the alternator.  Some people theorize this is why the first year alternator issues didn't get surfaced in factory testing,

Re removing the bodywork:  it's different than you think  :grin:  Inner fairing panels off first, then mirrors, then upper fairing, then lower fairing panels, then (and only then) fairing side panels.  It was designed to be assembled at the factory, apparently without regard to service time later on.  Replace any of the threaded rubber wellnuts that need it before reassembly. Try to get your hand behind the fairing and on each wellnut when starting the screw. Do not skimp here, and do not hurry, or it will drive you crazy if you do...

Looks like it has OEM Fuji front brake discs, which are warp prone.  Replacements are common to almost every other Italian bike of the 90s, but expensive.  EBCs are less expensive but still expensive.  If they pulse, this might take some creativity to limit costs.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Huzo on September 30, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
Now he seems like a worthwhile bloke to listen to...
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on September 30, 2018, 04:19:05 PM

Looks like it has OEM Fuji front brake discs, which are warp prone.  Replacements are common to almost every other Italian bike of the 90s, but expensive.  EBCs are less expensive but still expensive.  If they pulse, this might take some creativity to limit costs.

  Thanks for the tips, the bike won't be ridden much until a winter maintenance tear down...The seller said he just replaced the regulator.. The brakes look identical to my 96 Monster 900... The brakes feel smooth on this new to me ST2... The Monster had a the so called warped disc's and pulsing.. Because it floating ,it's difficult to measure....I bought used discs that work well... There's some  brake experts claiming that 90 percent of warped discs are not warped. It a variation in thickness caused by brake material deposits on the disc..And this is caused by brake pads not compatible with the rotor material..
 
Quote from: Petrus Rocks
Tony pulled the trigger.  I saw the bike yesterday.  very clean.  good cosmetics.  Bodywork should be coming off soon.

         wise ass !
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on September 30, 2018, 10:12:37 PM
When the disks on a 90s Ducati like the ST2 pulse, I've seen them looking like a potato chip, no micrometer required!  :grin: They are the same as on your Monster.

In my experience a new OEM regulator on a '98 ST2 (I had one for 9 years) may last 20,000 miles or may last only 1,000 miles.  If it was properly replaced by a non-OEM (typically Japanese) unit, wired and mounted properly, that's likely a good thing.  It's a real issue on the '98s. BTW, one of the related issues is the stock regulator in very low profile in shape, and fits in a location where few if any replacements can be mounted.

When you have the bodywork off, check the connector at the output of the alternator.  It is undersized for the power and they are well known to fail.  One solution is the hard wire it.

Best of luck with the bike, I really like them.

Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on October 01, 2018, 07:00:42 AM
 I won't have time too look closely at the ST2 for a few months....But while we are talking regulators, I see there's quite a few available, do have one model that's recommended from experience?  Thanks
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on October 01, 2018, 08:50:00 AM
I'm sorry I didn't keep records on the '98 ST2 regulator replacement, all the records went with the bike to the new owner. There is info out there on the net. If I recall correctly, one solution is to use the rectifier/regulator from a Japanese bike with a large three phase alternator, but wire only one of the phase connections to the ST2 single phase alternator.

I remembered one more thing... the rear engine mount bolt is prone to failure unless addressed and that can take the engine cases with it. This is the result of the rising rate rear suspension linkage and the huge forces in the rear shock that result.  Also, Ducati installed a bolt threaded just a little too far so that threads are bearing in the frame lug.  They fixed the problem by increasing the bolt size to 12-mm from 10-mm on later bikes, and that's one solution.  You can also buy higher strength replacement bolts from Nichols and others.  I did it the expensive Nichols way, but spending big bux to address the issue is not really necessary and the existing front bolt doesn't break.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: LowRyter on October 01, 2018, 09:43:42 PM
There are a million bikes that will fill the bill.  Only a mind reader will know what suits you.

For your budget, I'd seriously think about some Japanese bikes but I can't read your mind why you wouldn't consider one.  :shocked:

And really have no more comment.   :violent1:

Buy a bike, ride it and tell us how it went.   :whip2:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on October 02, 2018, 05:34:41 AM
There are a million bikes that will fill the bill.  Only a mind reader will know what suits you.

For your budget, I'd seriously think about some Japanese bikes but I can't read your mind why you wouldn't consider one.  :shocked:

And really have no more comment.   :violent1:

Buy a bike, ride it and tell us how it went.   :whip2:
  Have you been actually reading this thread?

 Tusayan, On  fitting a three phase voltage regulator to the Ducati single phase ...to handle the same watts, single phase(two conductors) has 73 percent more current on each wire compared to three phase (3 conductors)  I believe using only two legs of a three phase regulator/rectifier may overload the diodes...
 
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Tusayan on October 02, 2018, 09:48:12 AM
Tusayan, On  fitting a three phase voltage regulator to the Ducati single phase ...to handle the same watts, single phase(two conductors) has 73 percent more current on each wire compared to three phase (3 conductors)  I believe using only two legs of a three phase regulator/rectifier may overload the diodes...
 

I believe you're right, and had the same thought as I was writing about that.  For whatever reason the units being installed on '98 ST2s seem to be Japanese units removed from bikes with three-phase alternators.  Maybe they are much over designed and work for that reason (?) Or there is something I'm missing.  There's info if you search on Ducati.ms, but I've forgotten how I did it way back when.

If I understand correctly, the basic issue is that '98 ST2 uses the highest power output single phase PM alternator of any bike, certainty of any Ducati with the same Ducati Energia hardware, so direct replacement regulator/regulators aren't simple to find.
 
I did something similar once to replace the regulator on a F1B with a 916 unit, but IIRC the F1 alternator is a kind of odd Duck center tap thing and so it was a different situation. I can't remember the exact details of that either.  You'll figure it out.  Good luck!  :grin:
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on December 17, 2018, 06:12:14 AM
 I finally got to look at the ST2 on the lift after getting the old Triumph finished off...The Triumph is a story with the the Honda FRZ front forks and Ducati Brembo brakes and tuning tricks learned from my race bike...

  Took about 1/2 hour to remove all the fairing parts..I pulled the left side engine side cover to check the alternator..It looks fine and ohms out ok...It has a new voltage regulator but not the finned style claiming to be an improvement .The ECU has a Ducati performance chip to go with the open airbox and Staintune exhaust. The valve lash was exact to the specs..everything looked original and in good shape except for the damn oil leaks from the head/cylinder joint. Ducati guys tell me this is a problem on all ST2's up to about 2001...I pulled off both heads and cylinders...Not that difficult as some say EXCEPT the nits for the head/cylinder studs were seized from rust.. nothing else on the bike showed of signs of corrosion.. These two valve liquid cooled engine are just like the air cooled engines in that they have no head gaskets..a few o rings for oil and coolant passages... I lapped the cylinders to the heads with grinding compound and now have a leak free fit...But it appears the early heads will leak some oil no matter what...Doesn't hurt the running of it,just have to clean it off occasionally.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: jumpmaster on December 17, 2018, 12:45:03 PM
. The valve lash was exact to the specs..everything looked original and in good shape except for the damn oil leaks from the head/cylinder joint. Ducati guys tell me this is a problem on all ST2's up to about 2001...I pulled off both heads and cylinders...Not that difficult as some say EXCEPT the nits for the head/cylinder studs were seized from rust.. nothing else on the bike showed of signs of corrosion.. These two valve liquid cooled engine are just like the air cooled engines in that they have no head gaskets..a few o rings for oil and coolant passages... I lapped the cylinders to the heads with grinding compound and now have a leak free fit...But it appears the early heads will leak some oil no matter what...Doesn't hurt the running of it,just have to clean it off occasionally.

Can you make head gaskets?  How about head gasket sealer compounds - Permatex, Yamabond, etc.?
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: pressureangle on December 18, 2018, 08:22:02 AM
I just finished my first (we won't talk about Daytona '82) long distance tour, 10,000 miles Florida-Seattle-Florida in September and October on my 1100 Sport. I had only my Aerostich suit, Gasola boots, a small tank bag and 24 liter tailbag.
Best thing I ever did was travel light on a bike I love. I think the ST2 is a great choice.
For clothes, I had only 3 sets of long underarmor, 4 pairs of Thorlo socks, one pair of jeans and one t-shirt, and one Patagonia hoody. I have Held Rodney gloves. With all that, I was adequately comfortable from 98* in Florida-Georgia to 45* in Montana.
A huge part of thinking the trip through was recognizing how many times I wished I'd packed less, even in the car. I figured if necessary I could shop at the Salvation Army and give it back when I didn't need it anymore. In my case, I knew I'd be on the bike nearly always, not barhopping or dancing and dating. I had riding gear and clothes for Denny's after dark. Less is more.
Title: Re: Time for a long road trip
Post by: Rough Edge racing on December 18, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
Can you make head gaskets?  How about head gasket sealer compounds - Permatex, Yamabond, etc.?

  The no liner aluminum cylinder, nikasil surface, has a raised lip around the circumference of the bore that makes contact with a machined surface on the head. The o rings sealing oil and coolant passages are outside this and that part of the head and cylinder is about .015" shy of contact..I thought about sealer but I doubted it would have effect here.
 With each head and cylinder on the bench, I rotated the head back and forth on the cylinder using lapping compound until there was an even matte finish on both sealing areas. Then flipped the head upside down,set the cylinder on it no sealer and poured in a water/detergent mix...zero leaks .....
 I believe when the engine is running there is some weird expansion rates or fretting and a small gap opens up ,not enough for compression to actually blow  by but enough for combustion by products to seep through...