Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Patriarch on January 06, 2019, 10:40:30 AM

Title: An honest opinion please
Post by: Patriarch on January 06, 2019, 10:40:30 AM
To All,

First post, glad to be here. Thank you. I apologize up front for asking the question that has been asked too many times.

I'll be 73 in a few months. This will be my last motorcycle. Buying and trading - been there done that too many times to count with many bikes.

Am a very capable and competent rider. The 2018 Milano or Roamer fits my riding style and needs. I am NOT mechanically inclined in ANY way. Never have been and simply do not have the time or desire to begin now. Self-employed, I am still working long hrs and happy to do so.

SO - if we can skip all the bikes attributes and please help me decide on reliability only. Dealership is 125 miles away. My bucket list trip is 3 months away. Either bike will meet my needs and then some :-) but I am VERY worried. Not just general maintenance, I think I can make that work with some local help. Breakdowns are a whole nuther matter.

Yes, I know, ANYTHING mechanical can break down. My UJMs have been good to me - MG is an unknown and I really don't want to make a purchase mistake at this time with my last purchase.

I would greatly appreciate your honest advice here.

Thank you!
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kev m on January 06, 2019, 10:47:43 AM
I'm really torn on this.

If you had a very reputable dealer near by I'd say go for it.

If you had any proclivity to service it yourself, say do the valves, I'd say go for it.

My MkI V7 (13' Stone) has been VERY reliable, but it still required one voltage regulator and a few minor owner interventions (route spark plug wires and clutch cable better).

I'm told the III is even better.

So I WANT to say go for it.

But there was certainly a time in recent history where I felt I wanted to have at LEAST a spare bike if my only other bike was a Guzzi.

I might be over that.... Might be
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Rebochi on January 06, 2019, 10:59:31 AM
    All the Guzzis that I have owned required more owner involvement than any Japanese bike. Unless you are willing and able to minor trouble shooting, repairs and modifications or live close to a dealer I would carefully rethink buying a Guzzi as your only bike.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: elvisboy77 on January 06, 2019, 11:04:26 AM
All of my Guzzis have been as reliable as my other makes, Triumph, Kawasaki, Honda.

Quit worrying about the thing breaking.  They all break, regardless of age, brand cost etc.

My V7iii is a TON of fun, you will love the new Guzzis.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Lannis on January 06, 2019, 11:06:27 AM
I buy and ride Guzzis because:

1) I like the company I find that I'm keeping when I ride a Guzzi

2) I like the way they ride and feel

3) I like how easy they are to work on (except for the clutch!)

Notice that "total overall reliability until well sorted out" is NOT in my list of "why Guzzi!".   My two new Guzzis I've bought needed more care and feeding when new than any of my other-brand bikes ....

Lannis
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: wittangamo on January 06, 2019, 11:06:44 AM
We’re a pretty good match for age and mechanical inability. I suspect you would be happy with either of those bikes. Guzzi reliability has gotten better with the newer models, and once sorted they seem to last forever.

I chose the Roamer. Lightweight and decent power, shaft drive and EFI for low maintenance, ABS and traction control as a nod to technology, and the understressed 2V engine suggests high mileage potential. Mine has been trouble-free for 18 months of mixed highway and back roads riding.

Only niggle I’ve found so far is the charging system. Plugging it up to a battery tender every couple of weeks makes that a non-issue.

I made a long post a few days ago about accessories and upgrade options. The V9 is still pretty new and doesn’t have as many fans as the V7, but I have been very pleased with mine.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: bad Chad on January 06, 2019, 11:16:20 AM
I have bought two brand new Guzzi in the last twenty years.  Both proved very reliable, and to this point never left me stranded.   I do think that for someone in your circumstance the availability of a quality dealer may make all the difference.   What do you know about the dealership you’re considering?   If they have a good rep for Guzzi and a quality tech who understands Guzzi, then I would feel pretty comfortable about it.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: giusto on January 06, 2019, 11:22:20 AM
I would like to ask what drew you towards a Guzzi in the first place?
I would be happy to have a dealer within 125 miles to deal with any major issues. That would not be an inconvenience to me. The normal maintenance is super easy and can be handled by a decent local bike shop if you want no part of it.

If your primary desire is reliability there are a few websites out there that rate as such
The Most Reliable Motorcycle Brand?

•Yamaha/Star (11 percent failure rate)
•Suzuki and Honda (12 percent)
•Kawasaki (15 percent)
•Victory (17 percent)
•Harley-Davidson (26 percent)
•Triumph (29 percent)
•Ducati (33 percent)
•BMW (40 percent)

If you are buying because you really want a Guzzi...heck yes, that's why we are all here :)

Welcome to the site !! Hope you buy a Guzzi
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: guzzi4me on January 06, 2019, 11:23:17 AM
I have almost 11k miles on my V7II and the only issue was an oil leak which was covered under
warranty.

Rumor has it that the V7III is better, not by much, but better.

As far as the dealer being 125 miles away that isn't a make or break issue. If you want the dealer
to do the 600 mile service it would be a great excuse to schedule a ride to have it done.

Are you comfortable doing fluid changes? Doing valve checks? Really, if I can check valves anyone can!
Or again schedule a ride to the dealer. Or do you have a local independant shop that can do servicing?

That's about it for maintenance issues.

As has been stated the newer Guzzi's seem to be a reliable bike.

BUT you have to be comfortable with your decision. There are a lot of great options out there.

The WildGuzzi bunch is great for giving opinions. As you can see!

Best of luck and whatever brand you decide on remember you are always welcome here....

Ride safe and often,

Jeff

Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: s1120 on January 06, 2019, 11:34:07 AM
Id saw buy it if you want it.  Might need some little sorting at the start, but really nothing a local bike shop, or handy friend cant handle.. Like a loose bolt or two... that kinda stuff....  Major stuff you can truck it to the dealer.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: jpv7 on January 06, 2019, 12:00:18 PM
I have almost 11k miles on my V7II and the only issue was an oil leak which was covered under
warranty.

Rumor has it that the V7III is better, not by much, but better.

As far as the dealer being 125 miles away that isn't a make or break issue. If you want the dealer
to do the 600 mile service it would be a great excuse to schedule a ride to have it done.

Are you comfortable doing fluid changes? Doing valve checks? Really, if I can check valves anyone can!
Or again schedule a ride to the dealer. Or do you have a local independant shop that can do servicing?

That's about it for maintenance issues.

As has been stated the newer Guzzi's seem to be a reliable bike.

BUT you have to be comfortable with your decision. There are a lot of great options out there.

The WildGuzzi bunch is great for giving opinions. As you can see!

Best of luck and whatever brand you decide on remember you are always welcome here....

Ride safe and often,

Jeff
+1.  V7ii and i bet same oil leak at alternator cover...20,000km and that was it, but i never bought a new bike that leaked oil except a Guzzi.

Chose to fix it myself because I have had bad experiences at dealers.  Japanese or Italian.  Rare to find a good one.

That having been said, I'd probably get another...
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Ncdan on January 06, 2019, 12:13:06 PM
Over 50+ years of ridding I've owned all of the metric bikes, BMW and HD. yes Guzzis are special and fun to own but honesty, is what you requested. The three later model Guzzis I've owned did require a level of maintenance that does require a certain amount of mechanical expertise, such as valve adjustment. If you do not have access to a dealer fairly close or an experienced motorcycle mechanic that can assist you, I woukd probably advise you to maybe look at other choices. . Even then, a close by dealer is a plus. Good luck!
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Moto on January 06, 2019, 12:31:46 PM
... I am VERY worried. Not just general maintenance, I think I can make that work with some local help. Breakdowns are a whole nuther matter....

I see your concern. A dealer 125 miles away is not your worry. A breakdown on your "bucket list trip" three months away is the issue.

If that trip is Out West, in particular, you have a reason to worry, as a quick look at this map of all known Guzzi dealers (compiled by one of our members, here https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=81314.0 (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=81314.0)) reveals:

(http://www.dankalal.net/wildguzzi/MapDealerMotoGuzziUS.jpg)

Though it is unlikely (and my Griso has never let me down on the road), if you do need a part or service you may be forced to order it from one of two or three excellent online sources, and then find local help, either from a forum member (quite possible, even likely) or a local motorcycle shop.

As I say, it is unlikely. What I would recommend is a test ride on the Guzzi you like best, and then decide how much you like it. Is it worth the slight risk of a two-day delay and hassle, while you sort out some part swap? Maybe not.

Guzzis aren't Hondas, and they aren't Harleys either. But they are very reliable, modern motorcycles. Nothing is perfect.

Moto
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: usedtobefast on January 06, 2019, 12:39:13 PM
So if you don't get a Moto Guzzi, what would you get? 

I've only bought 2 Moto Guzzi, both new, both 2017 models ... so I can't say what long term life will be like.  But I think Moto Guzzi bikes attract mechanical type people ... not that the skills are needed, but the MGs are just such mechanically alive vehicles.  Like when I turn off my Suzuki 650 V-Strom, the engine just stops.  When I turn off my Griso there is just this wonderful spin down of clanking, clicking, whirly mechanical heaven that slowly becomes silent.

If you post on a BMW forum that you are thinking of doing your first service yourself, you'd be ridiculed, told you are crazy, only the dealer should do that, you are going to hurt your precious BMW.
If you post here about doing the first service on your Moto Guzzi, you'd probably get links to posts showing how to do the valves, tips on oil quantities (typically less than the manuals state), bolt torque specifications, etc. 

So in the interest of you experiencing a very fun motorcycle, I think you should get a new V7 III or Roamer and enjoy the heck out of it.  Most of the posts on here (and other forums) are from mechanically inclined/interested folks that enjoy this, not that they have to be that involved with their motos. 

And you should certainly take a test ride and see if you like them.  Also talk about your concerns with your dealer ... do they have a loaner bike program?   If the bike did have an issue and could not be ridden to the shop, do you have a way to get it there (trailer? truck?).

Oh, my 2017 V-Strom 650 has a recall that I need to take it in for!   :grin:
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: inditx on January 06, 2019, 12:43:39 PM
Great question and appreciated.  :thumb:
Of the 2 you mentioned, I would buy the Milano. Have had a V7I and II and ridden the III
Also had a Roamer. I now have a Stornello and a Quota btw.

The V7III is a wonderful bike and the valves? Just have the dealer check and/or adjust, they are so easy it also means less labor cost from them.
Take any other brand to the dealer and you’ll drop a lot of cash in checking and/or adjusting any valves not to mention other things.

Now the Victory I had didn't require regular valve adjustments but they are no longer in business. 

My .02   :bike-037:

Welcome and best of success with your choice. If you ride by/through KC let me know, I’ll buy ya a meal.

inditx
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Shorty on January 06, 2019, 01:27:45 PM
Welcome!  I would not advise a person to buy a Guzzi without either some mechanical ability, or a good dealer nearby. If you intend to do none of the preventive maintenance, you are miles ahead to go with a more marketable brand, with a network of repair stations.  I think a lot of us have emotional ties to our Guzzis which turn off the logic circuits in our brains.  :grin: We learn to fix them, and make excuses for them when they fail. Exceptions to every rule, however. Let us know what you decide, and stick around no matter what you buy. Most of us are Bi-bike-uals, and we like to hear about other machines as well.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on January 06, 2019, 02:18:29 PM
First of all welcome to the forum.
I say go for the Guzzi, the Roamer is a fine bike that seems to have no issues that will serve you well, my Brother just bought one for his last bike.
Sure you could buy a Honda or Suzuki and run less risk of it having teething trouble but that would be boring.
If you need to take it in for its first couple of services you can ride it in and wait while the dealer does the service then ride it home again.
One thing you have with Moto Guzzi is all of us right here who will bail you out in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Patriarch on January 06, 2019, 02:53:26 PM
Gentlemen,

I'm an old codger, not easily impressed. But DAMN! It's not just your great responses but the sincerity in each reply!!! Thank you so much everyone!!

The truth is, I spent most of 2017 researching what I knew would be my last bike. a TON of research. Finally decided and bought a near perfect machine which checked ALL of my boxes - except 1 - which I found out too late. The engine is too small and runs at higher rpm's all the time. It's not the bike which is totally vibration free but the harmonics... we just can not get along and Lord but I have tried. It looks great and has all the quality accessories - incredibly nimble and so stupidly easy to ride. High mpg's and great range, on and off road (fire roads) yadayada. And now... I'm starting all over again. I do NOT want to go through this again. I'm still very strong and in great physical shape but hate the position I've found myself in.

The DL650 is out - seat too high - still top heavy. Don't want a BMW. Most all of the parallel twins like the Versys - FZ07 all have those higher rpms to deal with. For me - NG. No thank you. The SV650 is small, like the Street Twin. I DO NOT WANT OR NEED MORE POWER OR MORE SPEED. For reasons every single one of you here understand - I WANT a V-Twin.

The Bonneville may (?) be an option and is 45 min from here (Greenville SC) - but runs on tubed tires (I think?) which I do NOT want. And, it's a 5-speed, and heavier (less nimble). Will go there this coming Tues and just "look around." They also have Ducati there. But here's the deal: The Milano or Roamer just check SO MANY boxes for me. ALL the advantages you folks here understand all the way down into your bones. I GET IT.  :bow:

The fly in the ointment here isn't really the bike - it's my mechanical ignorance. And since I'm a little late on fixing that - here I am now trying to set this up correctly so I don't end up making another mistake. The MG dealership is in Charlotte NC. I have NO idea how qualified the MG techs are???

One of you chose the Roamer - the other the Milano. If I may... reasons? Thanks.

I apologize for this long post and will DEFINITELY update in the days ahead.

Ride safe and GRAZIE!!!

Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: timonbik on January 06, 2019, 02:59:58 PM
I love my Guzzi, a 2008 Breva 750 and it has been  a good bike but I must be honest, I would never have a Guzzi as my ONLY bike. They are fun and great to ride but they are also temperamental.  Unless you are good with a laptop/Guzzidiag you are at the mercy of a dealer.  Notice what most say "great once sorted".  Key," once sorted".   Fueling maps, poor wiring, oil leaks, improperly lubed bearings, flat tappets, failing tps sensors, ignitions switch failures, all of which are common issues on various models, many of which are denied by Piaggio.  Yes, many of these are not applicable to the models you are considering but those models are fairly new and not well selling so really haven't been put to the test.
I will agree, ride the bike, then make the decision whether the fun factor is worth the down side of a poor dealer network and the need to sort the bikes out.

Cheers, Tim
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Huzo on January 06, 2019, 03:34:16 PM
I think there is a difference that needs to be addressed.
If you decide on a bike with consideration to reliability, there are two ways to see it. History may show that your bike has been a faithful servant from the day you bought it, but if you don't FEEL like it's reliable, then that's almost as disconcerting as if it turned out to be a heap of junk.
I took a BMW on a long Europe trip in 2015 because I felt that my Norge would be a constant source of anxiety to me, due to my perception of unreliability. I always felt the Beemer to be solid as a rock and never felt nervous, although there were two issues on the trip.
The following year I did the same ride on the Norge and it was faultless, however I always feel a small amount of trepidation when a long way from home.
The point of all this preamble, is that if the constant spectre of mechanical unreliability is going to detract from your riding experience and you do not relish the constant tinkering..
I'd go the Japanese way, although there is no guarantee that your fun will be seamless, at least you will FEEL secure in the way you wish..
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Vagrant on January 06, 2019, 04:06:58 PM
there are a lot of Guzzi enthusiasts within a 100 mile radius of you most would be happy to help you if needed. however after owning Guzzis since 1972 along with a ton of others I feel the 2015 and newer are about as trouble and maintenance free as anything.
more importantly they aren't boring to ride like most of the others out there.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: wirespokes on January 06, 2019, 04:09:23 PM
This reminds me of the early days of automobiles when someone on a long journey would bring a mechanic along.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Guzzistajohn on January 06, 2019, 04:11:22 PM
You never know no matter what you ride, drive or marry. Get what you like, be happy, pack a Visa and have a good time  :thumb:
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: usedtobefast on January 06, 2019, 04:18:00 PM
Well ... you could get a Honda NC750x.  It would have no issues, you could ride it tons of miles, Honda dealers all over the place.  They are kind of fun to ride.  A bit boring as well.  If someone wanted an "appliance" type bike that seems like a great one.

For Milano vs. Roamer ... the Milano has a ~5.5 gallon tank, seems like a bonus if you are doing longer trips.  Also, seems to be more accessories (like luggage & windshield options) for the V7 line vs. the V9 line.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Devildog on January 06, 2019, 04:54:25 PM
No one has said much about how easy these bikes are to work on, without much in the way of tech skills I get by OK, especially with Wild Guzzi backup.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: cappisj1 on January 06, 2019, 04:56:49 PM
A new guzzi is as reliable as any other brand. They have been at it for a while. Yes, less dealers/shops. If you have an “older” privateer motorcycle mechanic close you will have pleanty of support. Even an old car mechanic if your away from home can figure it out pretty quickly.

I can’t understand why guzzi owners are so hard on the brand?  Personally, I think that it is because guzzis are still easy to work on and we create problems just to tear into them. 

Pick a bike that makes you happy and suits your needs and ride the crap out of it.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Patriarch on January 06, 2019, 05:00:43 PM
Thanks gents. I'm listening.

What you said about the NC750 is all correct. Just not my bike.

You said: "Pick a bike that makes you happy and suits your needs and ride the crap out of it." I may very well do just that!!! I'm workin' on it!

There is a local shop - advertising Euro repairs. Met hime once last year - congenial. Will go down to his shop tomorrow, get his thoughts.

Thanks.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: mjptexas on January 06, 2019, 05:13:57 PM
Take a look at one of the 1200 Sportsters.  Options for customizing it to fit your needs are practically infinite.   Budget a grand to make the changes.  You would most likely spend that much tweaking a V7 or a Roamer. Maintenance is oil changes and tires, and it's hard to swing a cat and not hit a dealer.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Lannis on January 06, 2019, 05:15:09 PM

I can’t understand why guzzi owners are so hard on the brand?  Personally, I think that it is because guzzis are still easy to work on and we create problems just to tear into them. 



Let me give you another reason why.   

1) Bearings ungreased from the factory, that have to be opened up and greased.
2) Speedometer sensors that fail the first time they get wet and have to be sealed by the owner.
3) 2008 - 2012 8V cam followers that were improperly made.

We didn't just make these things up, we spent thousands of dollars getting them fixed.   Will a brand new Roamer have all these issues?   Probably not.

Did we just invent these issues for the fun of it?   Of course not.

Did the original poster ask for a "it'll be right mate" sales job?   No he didn't ....

Lannis
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Lannis on January 06, 2019, 05:34:02 PM
Thanks gents. I'm listening.

What you said about the NC750 is all correct. Just not my bike.

You said: "Pick a bike that makes you happy and suits your needs and ride the crap out of it." I may very well do just that!!! I'm workin' on it!

There is a local shop - advertising Euro repairs. Met hime once last year - congenial. Will go down to his shop tomorrow, get his thoughts.

Thanks.

You're going through the same thought process that many of us went through, whether we were buying our first Guzzi or our sixth.

I'll give you a couple thoughts that I had, considered, and came through the other side ...

1) Tubed vs. tubeless.   You can read tons of back and forth about tubed vs. tubeless tires, and may come to the same conclusion I did - it's like arguing for a favorite sports team vs another.   On a recent trip, I got a flat tire on the rear tubeless.   No problem, I had two different repair systems and a pump on board.   Neither worked.   The rip in the tire just expanded as plugs were installed.   We were hundreds of miles from home, and we don't carry a cell phone.   Borrowed a phone, called the breakdown service, hauled to a shop, installed new tire, and we were on the road and rolling three hours after we had stopped to try to fix it.   It's the USA, not Siberia.   There's always help around if you break down.

Tubed tires?   I run "slime" in the tubes, and have never had a flat, 200K+ miles.

2) Dealer 125 miles away?   So is mine.   It's not been a problem, even for work that only the dealer can perform.   For work that can be done with the bike hot, I ride it there at 10AM, explore the old city center for the day, pick it up at 6 PM, and ride it home.   For work that needs to be done with the bike cold, I built a little single-rail trailer out of a Northern Tool "kit" (it doesn't call it a kit but it is), and haul it there.   Only had to do it twice in 6 years/60,000 miles.   Not really a problem in the big scheme of things.

The old-school, excellent Honda shop is only 20 miles away, great guys.   The pull of the Guzzi is such that I've never bought a bike from them ... the same may happen to you!

Lannis
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: NC Steve on January 06, 2019, 05:45:25 PM
In mentioning Charlotte and Greenville, SC, and the mileages to each, you must be located in the general Asheville area. The dealer in Charlotte has a good rep, and has been in the Guzzi game for quite a while. Keep in mind there's also another strong dealer in Greensboro, not much farther from you, and they're becoming known as having some of the lowest prices on new Guzzis in the US.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: inditx on January 06, 2019, 06:16:03 PM
I said I’d go with the Milano due to the following;

Bigger gas tank
Better seat
IF you’re going above highway speeds never liked the front end feel of the Roamer
More accessories/mods for the V7III

inditx
p.s. That said, I did like the V9 motor!
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Huzo on January 06, 2019, 07:50:05 PM
Also, the modern Guzzi is a lot more of a suitable platform to stray around the fringes of becoming a home mechanic. As was eluded to in a previous post, there are many willing helpers to assist you if you decide to perform your own basic maintenance tasks and this can be just as fulfilling from an enjoyment point of view as burning endless tanks of fuel.
There are innumerable seats of knowlege here from basic to advanced, no one will be able to give you incorrect advice on this forum, because their mistakes will be jumped on immediately.
Fair to say I think, that the prospect of having to deal with one disaster after another, or shying away from Guzzies due to your perceived cluelessness, are not sound reasons for opting out.
As I said earlier, if the fear of mechanical failure is enough to pull enjoyment away from the prospect of Guzzi ownership, then off to the Honda dealer.
Otherwise jump in at a base price level and enjoy the camerarderie..
I don't know if a larger bike is out of the question for you, but from your comments I suspect you'd be ok. You can pick up a well sorted Breva 750/1100 and there is nothing about them that has not been covered here.
See if you can take one for a LONG test ride and it won't cost you much to find out..
Huzo.
PS
I just re read your original post and you do place a lot of importance on reliability or lack thereof, both real and imagined. If this is a bridge that you feel is insurmountable, I can't see that any amount of spin or rose coloured glasses is going to suffice, so again just do the Honda thing and it's hard to see how you can go too far wrong.
Good luck.. :thumb:
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: kingoffleece on January 06, 2019, 08:02:36 PM
Get the Guzzi.  Ask your dealer to ride it and break it in.  Have them change fluids and do first valve check.  Go over the bike so you have peace of mind.  Then enjoy your trip.

Don't laugh.  This happens more than folks know.  You'll love the V7.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: M0T0Geezer on January 06, 2019, 08:20:41 PM
(1) Got a (A) Yamaha or (B) Honda dealer(s) in your town?

If yes to (1A), buy a used Yamaha Majesty  400cc scooter.

If Yes to (1B), buy a used Honda SilverWing 600cc scooter.

Either of these (I have put 20,000+ miles on each one) are absolutely 98% reliable and 100% fun

(2) Keep a scooter as your back-up 2-wheeler (maybe even your Wife/SO will ride it with you), then buy whatever "real" bike speaks to your heart.  Who cares how far away the Dealer is?

I am 78 years old and therefore far wiser than any and all who are younger.

My favorite naked bike of all time was my 2004 750cc Moto Guzzi Breva.  50,000 trouble-free miles.
My favorite touring bike was a 1994 Honda ST1100 (preferred over my ST1300). 
My least favorite bike of all time - of any kind - was my 2005 Honda GL1800.  Serenely boring.
I just bought a 2007 Moto Guzzi 1151cc "rescue" Norge.  It is very needy and my Dealer is 100 miles away. My heart is very dumb - yet how I love riding that ungodly-beautiful bike!

RealGeezer
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Patriarch on January 06, 2019, 08:40:07 PM
In mentioning Charlotte and Greenville, SC, and the mileages to each, you must be located in the general Asheville area. The dealer in Charlotte has a good rep, and has been in the Guzzi game for quite a while. Keep in mind there's also another strong dealer in Greensboro, not much farther from you, and they're becoming known as having some of the lowest prices on new Guzzis in the US.

You are location correct - well done.

I'm a strong believer and advocate of building/maintaining relationships. When I visit with the owner of the local service shop, I'm hoping he'll give me the green light on this so he and I can do this together.

As for buying a MG and my concerns spoiling the ownership - that was a very insightful post. I'm confident I can handle dealing with minor issues with some local back-up. As the miles add up, I'm also confident the concerns will fade.

We gotta bunch of hills in this area with some steep roads - which I do frequent - including I-26 and the Highlands, North of Brevard. I strictly ride solo and that won't change. Still think the Milano over the Roamer? Just asking because I don't know and why I was slightly leaning towards the Roamer. DO like the dual clocks and bigger tank on the Milano though. And, after 2+ hrs riding, I'm ready for a short break - which means the Roamer has enough range too. Yeah, I'd like a little more power but lighter weight and really good handling trumps HP/torque for me.

It's been a good day here and a lot of that is because of those of you who took the time to respond. THANKS.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kev m on January 06, 2019, 08:45:24 PM
I'm not exactly sure what it is, the look, the feel, some combination.

I'm predisposed to like the Roamer/Bobber despite or maybe because of the funky tank. I finally stood one up and decided no thanks. My V7s however, pure lust.

I'm also told there's not much of an engineer difference between the V7III and the V9.

Of course none of this matters to you except to say follow your bliss.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: NC Steve on January 06, 2019, 09:32:00 PM
You are location correct - well done.

I'm a strong believer and advocate of building/maintaining relationships. When I visit with the owner of the local service shop, I'm hoping he'll give me the green light on this so he and I can do this together.

We gotta bunch of hills in this area with some steep roads - which I do frequent - including I-26 and the Highlands, North of Brevard. I strictly ride solo and that won't change. Still think the Milano over the Roamer? Just asking because I don't know and why I was slightly leaning towards the Roamer. DO like the dual clocks and bigger tank on the Milano though. And, after 2+ hrs riding, I'm ready for a short break - which means the Roamer has enough range too. Yeah, I'd like a little more power but lighter weight and really good handling trumps HP/torque for me.

There was a good Guzzi dealer in Hendersonville a few years back, but they were a small shop, and couldn't pay the bills on their meager Guzzi earnings. Asheville had a well known Guzzi dealer for many many years that gave up the franchise at least a decade ago, and I've always been amazed that someone up in that excellent riding area hasn't picked up the marque again.

Whatever you decide, you should ride over to the the NC 'Guzzis in the Blue Ridge' rally next summer, at Blue Ridge MC Camp, south of Canton on route 276, near Sliding Rock and Looking Glass Falls. All brands are welcome, and a great time is had by everyone. One of my regular rally buddies comes over from Brevard, and occasionally rides home 'for lunch'. Good luck in your decision!
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: SmithSwede on January 06, 2019, 10:06:04 PM
Honest opinion?   Ok . . .

Do you still work for a living and need to be at the job on time?  Are you in good health, or don’t want to be too far away from civilization and hospitals?  I’m assuming finances are ok if you are serious about buying a new bike.

And you say this will be your last bike?   Well, unless the above questions suggest otherwise, the answer is obvious.  Buy what you love and what makes you happy.   After all, this is your last bike.  Don’t fritter your time away on some also-ran bike because you fret about breaking down.   Why do you care about breaking down?

I ride my small block Guzzi everywhere.   Basically I don’t worry about breakdowns.   The main reason is that after dozens of bikes, and 40 years of riding, no other bike makes me as happy to actually RIDE IT as the little V7. 

Has it been perfect?  No.   Has it been less reliable than all my other bikes?  Hard to say.   I’ve never had a perfect bike.   They have all had issues.   And I’m not sure how to judge the Guzzi when I am constantly riding it, compared to other bikes that don’t get much use. 

If your reaction to riding a Guzzi is “I love this thing,”’ then I’d say buy one and get started.    Times a’wasting.   

And if you do have an issue, the good folks on this forum will back you up and help you out. 

Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Bobbilljim on January 06, 2019, 11:46:14 PM
1984 California 2 practically rebuilt from the ground up, crank to rocker covers. I’ll post some pics. (notice the hd softail mufflers and thats a honda front end but all original now) this group is why i havent given up. One thing you wont have to worry about is support. If you need help in phoenix count me in!
(https://i.ibb.co/87ZBJ07/24-E07-D2-A-5302-4081-A1-DA-186934-B41-DA5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/87ZBJ07)

(https://i.ibb.co/0C4xT8V/D711588-F-41-AB-41-AE-9-F90-F32-C94-E25435.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0C4xT8V)


oh, there are also lots of ways to convert tube to tubless....
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Huzo on January 07, 2019, 02:28:08 AM
You'll love it here Patriarch.
The friendships will last longer than the Guzzi.. :bow:
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Nic in Western NYS on January 07, 2019, 05:48:28 AM
Get the Guzzi.  Ask your dealer to ride it and break it in.  Have them change fluids and do first valve check.  Go over the bike so you have peace of mind.  Then enjoy your trip.

Don't laugh.  This happens more than folks know.  You'll love the V7.
This is great advice if you want a new Guzzi.  If you're OK with a used Guzzi, get one that's been sorted from someone on this list.  You'll know exactly what you're getting and what needs to be done.

If UJM is a thought, there are a few leftover new Bandit 1250s around.  The torque curve is such that buzzing isn't a big problem.

Since this is your last bike, I'd go for the experience of it, whatever that means to you. 
Cheers, Nic
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: chuck peterson on January 07, 2019, 06:35:33 AM
The trend around here is for multiple guzzi....a little v7....maybe a Loop on the side....maybe a LeMan? Feel like an automatic? I'd suggest that thinking its your last is freaking you out to find the perfect.

I bought a thirty year old $1000 Convert leaking from every seal, that only left me stranded once in 100k miles...or you could drive 10 miles from the dealer on a brand new bike and have a dead battery...

For the price of new you could stock the garage w three or four, but I'm cheap.

But I'll guess whichever you get will draw you to check out some other models.

I see barely used V7 below $5k as a day rider, less so for touring overnight. I see the Roamer w bags and a shield as more of a multi day trip ride. What kind of riding do you like or want to do? Almost any guzzi can be redirected to another purpose, especially the older ones
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: s1120 on January 07, 2019, 06:54:01 AM
You are location correct - well done.

I'm a strong believer and advocate of building/maintaining relationships. When I visit with the owner of the local service shop, I'm hoping he'll give me the green light on this so he and I can do this together.

As for buying a MG and my concerns spoiling the ownership - that was a very insightful post. I'm confident I can handle dealing with minor issues with some local back-up. As the miles add up, I'm also confident the concerns will fade.

We gotta bunch of hills in this area with some steep roads - which I do frequent - including I-26 and the Highlands, North of Brevard. I strictly ride solo and that won't change. Still think the Milano over the Roamer? Just asking because I don't know and why I was slightly leaning towards the Roamer. DO like the dual clocks and bigger tank on the Milano though. And, after 2+ hrs riding, I'm ready for a short break - which means the Roamer has enough range too. Yeah, I'd like a little more power but lighter weight and really good handling trumps HP/torque for me.

It's been a good day here and a lot of that is because of those of you who took the time to respond. THANKS.

If you have a local Euro guy thats good, its a no brainer..  Get the bike you love. Really you say it will be your last.. So why get something you dont like??? What are you waiting for?  Good tip about seeing if the dealer can put a little miles on it, and do a check over before you get it. A visit to the local guy after a few K miles for a nut/bolt check, and a eyeball over the whole thing, and I bet your good..  As a newbee Guzzi owner myself, there is so much info out there on these for small issues.. and the V7 series more so..  Ive not riden one, but I want to. Sat on one, and it just seems about perfect for a nice light, but solid do it all ride.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: JJ on January 07, 2019, 07:07:34 AM
If the Milano and/or Roamer fits the bill, and "tugs at your heart...", just GO FOR IT, don't worry about anything...and enjoy the ride and the adventure!!   :cool: :thumb: - - and don't look back!!

There is nothing worse than buyers remorse when it comes to motorcycles!! :wink:  As you know, there are no guarantee's in life...only death and taxes. :wink:
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Scott of the Sahara on January 07, 2019, 07:53:23 AM
One thing that gave me peace of mind when buying my Moto Guzzi was the dealer was only 30 miles away.
They were a big dealer for MG with a great reputation and a great service department.
They sold more Moto Guzzi's than anyone else in North America.
I became friends with the former owner.
They went out of business this fall. (after Dave Retired)
I am not worried .... at all. I love my Moto Guzzi and will take it anywhere.
Here is a list of problems I have had:
Plastic Dipstick broke. Replaced it with an after market one.
I replaced the stupid fuel filter myself and had a few self inflicted problems. I finally got it sorted out.
The tires wear out every couple of years.
The oil needs changing and the valves need adjusting.
I waited too long to replace the inner spark plugs.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: pebra on January 07, 2019, 09:26:01 AM
If you decide to go for a Guzzi  -  and I'm in the camp who think you should, but hey, we're all different!

I would insist on a test ride of at least one hour, to try to find out if the bike is comfortable to ride. You want to be able to enjoy riding all day, with some stops!
I'd try the Roamer first, and if I liked it I wouldn't look further. If not, I'd give the Milano a try.

At this stage, it's mostly a matter of taste and emotions, and not sense......
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: rocker59 on January 07, 2019, 09:42:49 AM

I am NOT mechanically inclined in ANY way. 

Yes, I know, ANYTHING mechanical can break down. 

I would greatly appreciate your honest advice here.


If you are not mechanically inclined at all, and will need to rely on the nearest servicing dealer while at home and on a long cross country road trip, you have two choices that will best fit your needs:

1) Harley-Davidson
2) Honda

Anything else will cost you time and heartache if you don't know which end of the screwdriver you hit the nail with.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Toecutter on January 07, 2019, 09:51:32 AM
Buy a Honda.

Failing that, a Harley... their dealer network and support is insane. Every one horse town on the continent seems to have a H-D dealer/service centre.


Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: bad Chad on January 07, 2019, 11:31:42 AM
The idea that Guzzi need to be “sorted out “ is a hold over from years back. By in large Guzzi made since we left the single digits of this century have been free of needing sorting. The small blocks have received a lot of attention and refinement from the factory.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Patriarch on January 07, 2019, 11:39:49 AM
Gentlemen,

After haveing read through all these posts multiple times - I am overwhelmed by the compassion, sincerity, empathy AND support expressed here. This is not an easy world in which to keep your daily faith. Hell, I'd buy the MG just to become a member of this great group of people. Last night, I finally decided on the 2018 Carbon Black.

And then...

At the real risk of offending this gentleman - which is NOT my intent and apologies up front if I have - I read his comments here a few minutes ago. He said:

"This thread is a pretty clear indicator of why many people are leery of Guzzi…

if you bring up the "quality" issue, cutely referred to as the need to "sort out" your bike in the first year... it gets sneered down as "it's a Guzzi, buy a honda then", as though you're some sort of pleb, undeserving of the brand. But, if you can turn a wrench.. you can look past it. But it seems awfully odd to me that a NEW vehicle has as many issues as Guzzis do. My dealer has a pile of low mileage used Guzzis… all returned for something more reliable. Every old biker I know that has owned a Guzzi professes love for them, though most have given up on them... and will happily go off on a "hey Gary, remember my Guzzi?!" story while sitting around a campfire (and most now ride H-D, or Indian)

But then, if you pile on the supply issue, the support issue, the parts issue... isn't that a clear indication that something is rotten from the top down? Why do we accept it from Guzzi… I doubt you'd return to a restaurant that had the same issues, or any other business, really. Would you accept it with  your chosen car company?"
[/b]


OK, by now, maybe you're beginning to think I should stop complaining and vacillating? This has been a thread of honesty and decency and I've an obligation to do the same. Were it not for the position I find myself in with my current bike, I'd have already bought the Guzzi. My vacillating is being cautious - nothing else. Despite my mechanical shortcoming and MG concerns now returning, I'm still going down to the local service shop. And ONLY because of your many posts here.

God bless and I'll let you know what I learn.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kev m on January 07, 2019, 11:58:13 AM
Last night, I finally decided on the 2018 Carbon Black.

Hey, that's the one we just brought home to keep my Stone company!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181230/4d01d1a6bfea0d4481b56fbfb6bb857c.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181230/96b12ea273072a082f4692a0e3e81ebd.jpg)


The idea that Guzzi need to be “sorted out “ is a hold over from years back. By in large Guzzi made since we left the single digits of this century have been free of needing sorting. The small blocks have received a lot of attention and refinement from the factory.

In the interest of honest reflection and not holding back:

Most 2013-14 V7s came with a cold idle stumble (some benefited from a new map others still do it), faulty regulators that overcharged, poorly routed clutch cables that melted on the jugs, spark plug wires that rubbed on the tank, and a recommendation to change the fuel filter and spark plug caps/plugs.

A batch of 2016 V7IIs were assembled at the factory without a thrust washer for the crankshaft, and eventually ate their cylinder blocks requiring a new motor (which was replaced by the factory, sometimes sooner, sometimes later, and these bikes could still be out there in un-repaired condition as no actual recall was ever pursued).

At least one 2017-18 V7III stranded its owner in the first few hundred miles when the fuel filter separated. As much as I'm a believer there is a low and random failure rate on the fuel filters, it does show they DO sometimes fail (early on or not, though my pet theory is the ones that fail were defective from the start).

Anyway, that doesn't support your suggestion that sorting is limited to the single digit turn of the century models. Though I do concur it has been largely getting better.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Toecutter on January 07, 2019, 11:59:28 AM
I can't for the life of me imagine why I would be offended by that.

as for the "sorting out" rebuttal... We own two V7s, and I know three other people with V7/V7II.

All of them have needed "sorting out". Now, that's a pretty small sample size... but, 5 outta 5 is pretty solid numbers, I'd say.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Patriarch on January 07, 2019, 12:14:52 PM
I know Kev! You were involved in my decision.  :thumb:

Toecutter - just wanted to be sure you knew - no offense intended. I'm the one who asked for honesty here. Thank you.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Darren Williams on January 07, 2019, 12:18:16 PM
The new V7 Carbon is a really nice looking bike with a lot of positives in the spec sheet and on the road.

It has all been talked to death, but make a list of the things needed to be done to "sort it" (lubing of bearings, plug caps, fuel filter...) and get it done by a competent mechanic or the dealer if you trust them, since you said you want no part of wrenching. Once that is done, the bike should be as reliable as just about any brand.

Before starting out on any long trip, figure out what you will do IF something happens and you are stranded. Come to peace with it and in the unlikely event it does happen, it won't be nearly as stressful of a situation. I know of a guy that has been planning to buy a pickup to haul his bike home from across country when it breaks down. He always has the funds ready but in the 10+ years, and over 100,000 miles traveled I've known him, it has never been needed.

If something like that is not something you want to deal with, then a small Harley Street 750 is a really good bike with a ton of dealers throughout the country. Of course they won't be as cool, ride as well or look as good as the V7 Carbon. IMHO.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: timonbik on January 07, 2019, 12:44:12 PM
Also be aware that there seems to be a problem with porous blocks on the V7III's/SB's which can cause persistent oil leaks.  Has been acknowledged by  Piaggio.  Solution is to goop it up and extend the warranty???

Tim
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Huzo on January 07, 2019, 12:49:35 PM
Why not grab a low mile one that's been "sorted" and save a lot of $$$$'s in the process ?
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Toecutter on January 07, 2019, 01:47:03 PM
Why not grab a low mile one that's been "sorted" and save a lot of $$$$'s in the process ?

1) You never know who's done the "sorting" and what kind of job they did.

However... the $$$ savings can't be overstated. the ONLY reason to ever buy new, in my opinion, is for warranty, and that "new bike smell". That's it. I doubt I'll ever buy another "brand new" Guzzi... unless it's old stock and super cheap. My experience with my V7 has made me pretty leery (and I doubt I'm the only one... look no further than your post for proof of that), and THAT should be a concern for Piaggio... brand loyalty means nothing if it doesn't translate to NEW bike purchases.

I'd love to know how many "first/second bike" buyers bought and regret their purchase. If I wasn't dumb enough to do most of my own work and maintenance, this bike would have resutled in a trade-in, year one.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: bad Chad on January 07, 2019, 01:47:30 PM
Kev, I did say "by and large", which I think equates with your own statement, of "low and random".

Meaning if you do run across a problem, they are likely to be few and taken care of by a good dealer.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kev m on January 07, 2019, 02:18:48 PM
Kev, I did say "by and large", which I think equates with your own statement, of "low and random".

Meaning if you do run across a problem, they are likely to be few and taken care of by a good dealer.

Well, I was only talking about the fuel filters not potential other things (spark plug caps if they're still a thing on the IIIs).

I WILL add that I currently plan to do none of those things on the new III.

I'll replace the fuel filter if it ever fails.

I'll replace the spark plug caps if they short.

I really hope it doesn't leak oil, but I'll burn that bridge if and when I get to it.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Toecutter on January 07, 2019, 02:26:21 PM
Having those caps short is pretty pricey, though... if they burn out your Cat, no? Wait... you have warranty, right?
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kev m on January 07, 2019, 02:40:57 PM
Having those caps short is pretty pricey, though... if they burn out your Cat, no? Wait... you have warranty, right?

I still have the originals in my 2013 too.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: jpv7 on January 07, 2019, 02:42:25 PM
Having those caps short is pretty pricey, though... if they burn out your Cat, no? Wait... you have warranty, right?
Lol...reminds me of my last demo ride in spring of '16 before I bought my V7ii .  The dealer up here was nice enough to offer me a v7ii demo ride for the afternoon.  When I got there for the ride he said "Piaggio asked that I remove the stock exhaust from the demo and send it to another dealer for warranty".  At the time, not knowing about the plug cap issue, I wondered why they'd need to do that...he stole the mufflers from another V7 and sent me on my way..

Well I bought the bike, and the caps are updated along with the fuel filter...
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: fossil on January 07, 2019, 03:04:19 PM
I still have the originals in my 2013 too.
+1
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Toecutter on January 07, 2019, 03:04:23 PM
I still have the originals in my 2013 too.

Happened to my bike, my wife's bike... saw one in the service area of the dealer, and talked to another at bike night that had the issue. Enough to make me paranoid. I know it's a YMMV thing, but I guess we prioritize our own experiences.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Patriarch on January 07, 2019, 04:13:51 PM
ALL,

I WANT the 2018 Black Carbon for all the right reasons which I won't list because you already know all the reasons.  :thumb:

After my short meeting with a local moto shop repair today - very congenial - my confidence was shaken. The gentleman there had to open a H-U-G-E service directory to locate make, model, etc - and couldn't find it. He would have been my back up for all the basic maint work and he appeared to be on the bottom of a steep learning curve. There were other "signs" during the meeting that did not help. Good intentions on his part? Yes. I'll leave it at that.

Hugely disappointed at the moment, I'm going to put all this to rest for awhile and consider my options. Please know that I am very grateful not only for all the experience & advice provided here but for the heartfelt support.

Be well!

Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kev m on January 07, 2019, 05:03:51 PM

P - good luck with whatever you decide.


Happened to my bike, my wife's bike... saw one in the service area of the dealer, and talked to another at bike night that had the issue. Enough to make me paranoid. I know it's a YMMV thing, but I guess we prioritize our own experiences.

I suspect how much care one takes in handling them plays a part. I suspect little to no care is taken by most service departments and many owners.

That said I'm sure someone could manage to damage one even when taking care.

I'll change mine out on the 13 when I change spark plugs again.

Till then I simply watch for symptoms of any problems. If something occurs I'll shut it down and diagnose it.

Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: inditx on January 07, 2019, 05:12:40 PM
Time has a way of sorting these things out patriarch. With ya whatever you decide. Keep us updated.

inditx
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 07, 2019, 05:34:06 PM
Ok, here's the deal. I'm no spring chicken, either.. and you are screwing up if you buy a motorcycle with your head instead of your heart. I did that once.. never again.
Go to Cadre Cycles in Cincinnati.(!) Yes, I'm aware it is a good distance away. Enzo has several small blocks at good prices, is honest, and stands behind his work. Buy your bike of choice. You'll be glad you did. You only get a chance to buy your last bike once. :smiley:
Disclaimer: I have no dawg in this fight. Just call Enzo and tell him the denizens of WildGuzzi sent you..
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: inditx on January 08, 2019, 07:59:10 AM
 :thumb: Yes Chuck!
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Lannis on January 08, 2019, 08:21:25 AM

Go to Cadre Cycles in Cincinnati.(!) Yes, I'm aware it is a good distance away. Enzo has several small blocks at good prices, is honest, and stands behind his work. Buy your bike of choice. You'll be glad you did. You only get a chance to buy your last bike once. :smiley:

Disclaimer: I have no dawg in this fight. Just call Enzo and tell him the denizens of WildGuzzi sent you..


OR ....

Go to Moto Richmond in Richmond, VA (!) Yes, I'm aware it is a good distance away. Chelsea has several small blocks at good prices, is honest, and stands behind her work. Buy your bike of choice. You'll be glad you did. You only get a chance to buy your last bike once. :smiley:

Disclaimer: I have no dawg in this fight. Just call Chelsea and tell her the denizens of WildGuzzi sent you..

Lannis (that was easy)
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: wittangamo on January 09, 2019, 10:49:49 AM
Go SOMEWHERE. Find a dealer that has them in stock and will let you ride various flavors of the V7 and V9.

It’s one thing to read about them, drool over the photos, watch videos and listen to the biased opinions of folks who want to convince you that whatever they bought is the best possible choice for you. There are differences in ergos, performance and riding characteristics that will decide it for you.

If the dealer doesn’t have all the options you’re considering, there is probably an owner within a reasonable distance who might let you take a spin. If it truly is the last bike you plan to buy, don’t buy it without a butt-test.

And I wouldn’t worry all that much about distance to the dealer. Initial setup and major service can be scheduled. Routine maintenance is within the competence of any decent mechanic — especially given the availability of service manuals and expert advice online.

The new models have a much better reputation for reliability than the old. Honestly, the only real concern is parts. Most of the ordinary consumables are easy to find online, but replacements from Italy sometimes require patience.

All that said, I have more fun per mile on my V9 than any of the bikes I’ve owned and I have no hesitation about hopping on for a half-hour or a week in the saddle.

But don’t listen to me, or any of these other pro-or-con propagandists. Take a couple of test rides. You may find your head and heart agree after all.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kristian on January 09, 2019, 11:30:48 AM
There is little doubt that modern Guzzis will experience more issues than e.g. a Honda; as has been said several times above, Guzzis require more patience and owner involvement than Japanese bikes or even new Triumphs. But, if you're inclined to overlook some foibles like sudden leaks from the shaft drive, remote dealers, and can do some wrenching, few bikes are as satisfying to own as a Guzzi.

However, if I was you, I'd have a Honda CB1100 in a minute; you get significantly more bike and a more masterful touring companion due to better suspension, dual discs up front, far more power, and ultimately better build quality, than with a Guzzi V7. And the same classic look that is just as authentic for Honda as the V7 is for Guzzi. The Guzzi will have a bit more of that elusive trait "character," hard as that is to define. Also, do you have a Triumph dealer nearby? They are making terrific bikes these days, with a far larger dealer network than Guzzi's.
http://powersports.honda.com/standard/2017/cb1100.aspx (http://powersports.honda.com/standard/2017/cb1100.aspx)

 
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Toecutter on January 09, 2019, 12:11:46 PM
There is little doubt that modern Guzzis will experience more issues than e.g. a Honda; as has been said several times above, Guzzis require more patience and owner involvement than Japanese bikes or even new Triumphs. But, if you're inclined to overlook some foibles like sudden leaks from the shaft drive, remote dealers, and can do some wrenching, few bikes are as satisfying to own as a Guzzi.

However, if I was you, I'd have a Honda CB1100 in a minute; you get significantly more bike and a more masterful touring companion due to better suspension, dual discs up front, far more power, and ultimately better build quality, than with a Guzzi V7. And the same classic look that is just as authentic for Honda as the V7 is for Guzzi. The Guzzi will have a bit more of that elusive trait "character," hard as that is to define. Also, do you have a Triumph dealer nearby? They are making terrific bikes these days, with a far larger dealer network than Guzzi's.
http://powersports.honda.com/standard/2017/cb1100.aspx (http://powersports.honda.com/standard/2017/cb1100.aspx)

I respectfully, but passionately, disagree.

The CB1100 is retro in looks alone... a pretty, pseudo-late 70s/early 80s giftwrap around *thoroughly* modern and "reliable as a Singer Sewing Machine and about as exciting" guts. It falls victim the same things as other "modern retros"... aside from Guzzi and Royal Enfield. New bikes styled to look old.


I'm a giant fan of the vintage fours from Honda. Love them. The CB750 still sits atop my mountain of most beloved bikes ever. I practically ran to my dealer, cash in hand to buy the 1100 when it came out. It left me cold. Well built, well thought out, by all measures, a great bike. But when it comes to, as you say, "character"... it had zero.  Not to mention the price difference, plus the bump in insurance costs for the displacement.

and, around here at least, the headache of trying to get the insurance company to understand that the "CB" is NOT a "CBR".
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: mjptexas on January 09, 2019, 06:15:20 PM
OR ....

Go to Moto Richmond in Richmond, VA (!) Yes, I'm aware it is a good distance away. Chelsea has several small blocks at good prices, is honest, and stands behind her work. Buy your bike of choice. You'll be glad you did. You only get a chance to buy your last bike once. :smiley:

Disclaimer: I have no dawg in this fight. Just call Chelsea and tell her the denizens of WildGuzzi sent you..

Lannis (that was easy)

OR...

Call the folks at AF1 Racing in Austin, Texas and have them ship one to you.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Bulldog9 on January 09, 2019, 06:49:12 PM
Lots of great advice here.

Reliability is relative, to bike, original setup, riding style, maintenance habits.  I have a 2007 Griso that I bought from the original owner, 15K miles, and never one issue. I have a 2014 Norge that I bought in 2016 with 800 (or so) miles on it. I got it for a steal ($6K) knowing it had issues. Not sure where or how, but one of the cams was off a tooth and the bike would not rev past 6K RPM. Long story and still a mystery, but once I got that sorted, the next 11K miles have been trouble free with the exception of the grub screws in one head weeping oil.

More related to your interests, I also have a 2016 V7ii Stornello that I have had since this summer. It now has 3K miles, all trouble free, though the front MC leaked brake fluid on the cap/reservoir seal. The issue was it was overfilled. Some have gone to the dealer for a replacement cover, I removed fluid to the 1/2 mark, just above the sight glass and no issues.

Here are a few things to consider.

- Guzzi  V7/V9 First service, valve adjust is 600-900 miles (models vary) This is important service. If you buy new, this will be an issue for you pretty quickly.

- Valve adjustments and Oil Change/Gear change intervals are MUCH shorter than many Japanese brands. Depending on how much you ride, if you can't do the servicing your self, and don't have a decent trustworthy and KNOWLEDGEABLE local indy shop, and are forced to go to a dealer, you may get tired of the bike fast.

- As others have said, 90% of the servicing on the Guzzi is simple and straightforward, the simplicity is genius. But if you dont want to worry about any of that, than dealer access of solid mechanic is a must.

- WG is a great resource for many things and if you share your location, I bet someone knows a decent trusted shop nearer to you than the dealer, and more than likely even a local guzzi rider willing to work for beer ;-) Warranty work may be an issue, but if you get a good one unlikely. But you never know.

I wouldn't be too worried about reliability, I'd be thinking more about maintenance.  Take your time, find the right bike, so many options these days....  If I was looking for a non Guzzi, my ONLY other choice would be the Kawasaki Z900RS.... I think the best effort yet at the classic UJM.

Keep riding brother!
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kristian on January 09, 2019, 07:52:24 PM
The CB1100 is retro in looks alone... a pretty, pseudo-late 70s/early 80s giftwrap around *thoroughly* modern and "reliable as a Singer Sewing Machine and about as exciting" guts. It falls victim the same things as other "modern retros"... aside from Guzzi and Royal Enfield. New bikes styled to look old.

The CB is quite old fashioned through and through, including the steel frame, wire wheels, and aircooled four; it's just engineered properly using modern tech.

And, you'll never produce beautiful clothes with an unreliable sewing machine, particularly if you don't know how to repair it and your service center is far away. You'll fix that problem by not making clothes.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: redhawk47 on January 09, 2019, 11:36:36 PM
Patriarch: Congratulations on deciding on the Carbon Black. The V7 is my choice because of the seating position. The other differences are minor.

Regarding the mechanic not finding it in his book: It is a new model, but essentially a red-headed Stone. Service and parts manuals are available as PDFs at low cost, and can be found for free. IIRC I brought a thumb drive to my dealer and he loaded them n/c. The questions about your local mechanic are: is he a competent mechanic and is he honest? If he is, he will like working on the V7.

I am surprised that no one mention this: If you should have troubles while traveling you are not alone! Join the Moto Guzzi National Owners Club - mgnoc.com - and download the MGNOC Contact Directory. It is a list of MG owners, sorted by state, who are willing to help, with info about what they can help with. Plus, there is this forum, of course.

I ride a V7II Stone, my riding buddy just bought a V7III Stone. If you have more questions feel free to contact me directly.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: stubbie on January 09, 2019, 11:43:30 PM
I've had a Honda, Yamaha, Ducati, BMW R1150GS and 4 Moto Guzzi's. 3 of those bikes were new the others second hand. I've had to fix things on all of them at some point especially the Ducati. I've only sat on the V9 and the V7. I didn't really like them so I have not ridden either. It's your choice if you like the V7 go for it I don't think you will be disappointed. As for maintenance take it back to the dealer it's an excuse for a ride.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: fossil on January 10, 2019, 12:20:39 AM
Well, I had a real issue with my V 7 Stone from 2013. A spring in the gearbox broke, so the shifting mechanism had to be dismantled. But: it is the old gearbox that basically is in use since 1977. And it is not known for issues to my knowledge. And: from the V7 II on this gearbox is history. So I think I had a misfortune. Do I still like my Guzzi? You bet. It is a sweet little motorcycle.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Huzo on January 10, 2019, 02:30:31 AM
One thing I'll say for you mate.
You sure know how to get a conversation started..
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Patriarch on January 13, 2019, 09:24:29 PM
Thanks Huzo - just an honest request for help followed by GREAT people doing their best to assist with a problematic decision - weighing all the pros and cons.

I apologize for being late with my update - could not be helped. While I believe many here will not understand - because they ARE mechanically inclined - I decided not to go with MG. Those who said choose with your heart and not your head - you are absolutely right. But riding to some of the dealerships a few recommended - 500 to 1,000 miles one way!! - just isn't doable for this hard working rider. I've already stated why I lost confidence in the local shop and 125 miles thru rough traffic to the MG dealer - and my bucket list trip coming up later this year...

At the moment I am still looking & undecided as I have to make this choice the right one. Please know that I was overwhelmed by the sincerity and kindness expressed in all your posts.

Many thanks & God Bless.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Shorty on January 13, 2019, 09:34:04 PM
Thanks Huzo - just an honest request for help followed by GREAT people doing their best to assist with a problematic decision - weighing all the pros and cons.

I apologize for being late with my update - could not be helped. While I believe many here will not understand - because they ARE mechanically inclined - I decided not to go with MG. Those who said choose with your heart and not your head - you are absolutely right. But riding to some of the dealerships a few recommended - 500 to 1,000 miles one way!! - just isn't doable for this hard working rider. I've already stated why I lost confidence in the local shop and 125 miles thru rough traffic to the MG dealer - and my bucket list trip coming up later this year...

At the moment I am still looking & undecided as I have to make this choice the right one. Please know that I was overwhelmed by the sincerity and kindness expressed in all your posts.

Many thanks & God Bless.

No need to run off. Let us know what you get, and hang around. Possibly come to a rally or breakfast in your area. Cheers!
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Huzo on January 13, 2019, 11:32:47 PM
No need to apologize mate, a good conversation that has not degenerated into a slanging match.
Glad to have you here... :thumb:
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: s1120 on January 14, 2019, 06:21:43 AM
Good luck with whatever you end up on. And as was said..  stop in, and fill us in on the details!!  We would love to hear what you end up with, and how the trip goes.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: inditx on January 14, 2019, 09:37:11 AM
I respect your decision patriarch.
As others have said though, hang around here.
Many of us have multiple bikes that aren’t MG. Community around bikes is what this forum is largely about I have found. Sure there is overwhelming support and help for Guzzi’s but we’re all bikers or riders if you prefer, at heart.
If I were you I'd look at and ride of course, the new Honda 750. Even dare to try the DCT, gasp.....!

Blessings,
inditx aka Jack
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Bulldog9 on January 14, 2019, 10:31:01 AM
No worries Patriarch, ride what you love, love what you ride.  Better not ride a Guzzi though, it will get in your blood.........

I bet a local WG rider or other MG owner in your area could help out or point you to a solid indy mechanic.

That said, be sure to check out the Kawasaki Z900RS.... Is IMO one of the nicest non Guzzi Retro bikes, far nicer than the Triumphs.  Whatever you choose, you're always welcome here, and RIDE SAFE!
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: davevv on January 14, 2019, 01:39:19 PM
For a low maintenance and nearly bullet proof bike, I'd suggest you head down to your nearest Harley-Davidson dealership and test ride whichever version of the Sportster that appeals to you the most.  The Roadster is going to be the best handling.  All of them can have the bars/seats/pegs/controls changed easily to whatever fits you best.  The stock exhaust system is not noisy.  There are plenty of good clean used ones available if you decide not to buy new.  I've owned three Guzzis and loved them.  Harleys are the closest to a Guzzi in feel and there isn't a lower maintenance bike or better dealership network around.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: inditx on January 14, 2019, 03:04:45 PM
You will pay premiums for anything related to Harley however.
A lot of my buddies ride em and love them.
Just saying they are more costly that’s all.

inditx
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: fossil on January 16, 2019, 05:39:58 AM
You will pay premiums for anything related to Harley however.
A lot of my buddies ride em and love them.
Just saying they are more costly that’s all.

inditx

You think so? Then try do buy and service a Harley in Germany...
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kev m on January 16, 2019, 07:27:17 AM
You will pay premiums for anything related to Harley however.
A lot of my buddies ride em and love them.
Just saying they are more costly that’s all.

inditx

This is largely a myth.

I've shown many times how MSRP and OEM costs are in particular with other brands. Sure you can find premium dealers and extravagant bikes but you can buy em cheap and used these days more than ever.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: s1120 on January 16, 2019, 08:38:23 AM
This is largely a myth.

I've shown many times how MSRP and OEM costs are in particular with other brands. Sure you can find premium dealers and extravagant bikes but you can buy em cheap and used these days more than ever.

Ive seen that also.. My guess is that really its a glutted market. At least near me. You can get a nice Sportster a few years old for around 3K.. And really most are pretty solid, and low miles.. Even a big twin you can find something nice, in a style you like used for around 6..  really less then any Guzzi's... at least around me. Add to that the HUGE aftermarket, MANY dealers, and a vary large independent repair shop network.. they are really vary affordable near me.. 
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Toecutter on January 16, 2019, 08:51:23 AM
Up around here, most sellers (and obviously a lot of buyers) still buy into the "Harley doesn't lose value" myth.

The exception is Sportsters... which, I believe, is due to the OTHER great myth of the Sporty as a "girl's bike" that one buys as a stop-gap to getting a "real bike".

But I still regularly see late 80s big twins for sale at $15-16K. Bikes 10 years old, for $3000 off sticker price...  it's ridiculous.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: s1120 on January 16, 2019, 09:32:46 AM
Up around here, most sellers (and obviously a lot of buyers) still buy into the "Harley doesn't lose value" myth.

The exception is Sportsters... which, I believe, is due to the OTHER great myth of the Sporty as a "girl's bike" that one buys as a stop-gap to getting a "real bike".

But I still regularly see late 80s big twins for sale at $15-16K. Bikes 10 years old, for $3000 off sticker price...  it's ridiculous.

Guess it depends on where you are..  Like I always said... all you guys on here finding all the cheap Guzzis, and nothing around me at all!!  Luckly I did find one... saved me from buying one of those "girls bikes" cheap. :)
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: inditx on January 16, 2019, 10:09:24 AM
I was referring more to MSRP on bikes, parts, accessories, clothing and service costs.
Don’t believe those are myths as many buddies own them.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: inditx on January 16, 2019, 10:11:08 AM
Good point fossil.  :thumb:
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kev m on January 16, 2019, 11:16:04 AM
I was referring more to MSRP on bikes, parts, accessories, clothing and service costs.
Don’t believe those are myths as many buddies own them.

I am too.

When you compare like-to-like (and I have over the years, time and again, written long drawn out posts showing similar/like models from JAPanInc and the EU to similar product placement Harleys) the MSRPs were in the same ballparks. Parts and accessories too - you're, clothing and service etc.

The problem comes when someone compares say a V-star 650 (because of it's shape) with say a Softail and thinks they are comparing apples-to-apples.

Or maybe they compare an armored/vented leather Harley jacket to a Joe Rocket mesh that's branded Honda.

It's not like Guzzi accessories are cheap? Is Ducati service at a bargain price now? Are BMW accessories discounted? How about Klim, Aerostich, Arai, Shoei.

Yeah, if you're comparing to Bilt of course...but that's true for everyone.

EDIT - don't get me wrong here, Harley definitely has some HALO models from the CVOs to at least one or two models in each line that are just priced way up there cause they can. But at the same time they always have a couple of models that are priced at the other end in each line. When people say they are more expensive they are usually talking about the halo models, not the other end.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: Kev m on January 16, 2019, 11:18:28 AM
Up around here, most sellers (and obviously a lot of buyers) still buy into the "Harley doesn't lose value" myth.

The exception is Sportsters... which, I believe, is due to the OTHER great myth of the Sporty as a "girl's bike" that one buys as a stop-gap to getting a "real bike".

But I still regularly see late 80s big twins for sale at $15-16K. Bikes 10 years old, for $3000 off sticker price...  it's ridiculous.

Geez where's that? I mean don't get me wrong, you see the dreamers of course.

I spent a year looking for the right BT EVO before I gave up on finding an unmolested one. But in that time I could have bought EVO BT's ALL DAY LONG for about $6k.

Now you can get the early and some of the later TC's for under $10k.

Yeah, 2-3 year old ones still often carry a price tag, but that's not a bad thing.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: jumpmaster on January 17, 2019, 05:29:50 PM
Buy a Honda.

Failing that, a Harley... their dealer network and support is insane. Every one horse town on the continent seems to have a H-D dealer/service centre.

I can't resist jumping in.  Yes, the Harley dealer network is amazing.  AND, they have a corporate mindset of getting traveling bikers back on the road as soon as possible - I have one friend who broke down on a cross-country trip & the dealer he was towed to let him put 3,000 miles on a brand-new loaner, while they waited for a replacement engine, so he could continue his trip.  And I've had dealers let me "jump the line" to get new tires on a trip more than a couple of times.

Another point, though.  As an old codger myself, I belong to a couple of different roadside emergency organizations so I can get help anywhere there is cell service.  Being broken down far from a dealership is more of an inconvenience than an emergency these days, especially if you're past the point of having unbendable trip schedule deadlines.  A couple of days in a small town waiting for a part to be FedExed in can provide an opportunity for some good stories to tell when you get home!

Last point - and I'm surprised nobody brought this up yet.  Are you sure this will be your LAST bike purchase?  Buying a Guzzi can result in a serious addiction.  I bought my "last bike" - a moderately old Guzzi - 4 years ago & just bought another "last bike" - another old Guzzi - 2 months ago.  And, if I'd had any money and room left in my garage I might have tried to buy another "last bike" that just dropped off ebay a couple of days ago.
Title: Re: An honest opinion please
Post by: stonelover on January 17, 2019, 06:00:21 PM
I agree with jumpmaster.  Turned 80 earlier this month and thought that I was buying my "last bike" ( a Guzzi) in the summer of 2015.  Happy with the Guzzi,  but feel that there may be another in my future.
Bill H.