Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: flower_king001 on January 12, 2019, 09:12:23 PM

Title: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: flower_king001 on January 12, 2019, 09:12:23 PM
No affiliation but looks stunning!

https://tinyurl.com/y7uab9hd


(https://i.ibb.co/2kdxKtQ/s-l1600.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2kdxKtQ)
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: guzzisteve on January 12, 2019, 09:27:31 PM
Cult bike nowdays not really worth the money in my opinion, just cuz the rich and famous say so. Just like always Just another Guzzi
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: JJ on January 13, 2019, 07:18:29 AM
I wonder if this is the same 1000S I saw in 2013 at the New Mexico Guzzi Rally in Datil, (??).  I remember the owner said he was from Texas and he said it was a $20,000 restoration (??) See photos...


(https://i.ibb.co/ySf8nzm/IMG-6435.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ySf8nzm)

(https://i.ibb.co/wMYvKX9/IMG-6434.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wMYvKX9)

(https://i.ibb.co/DWRyw4y/IMG-6433.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DWRyw4y)


Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: s1120 on January 13, 2019, 07:37:42 AM
first guzzi I ever rode on a demo...  Wish I bought it then..  Ive been looking for guzzis since! 
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: flower_king001 on January 13, 2019, 08:52:13 AM
Had a chance to buy one from Ace Mallott in a crate back then....should of...should of :violent1:
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: jpv7 on January 13, 2019, 09:00:09 AM
i think he was selling a nice LeMans too (without mufflers)...I remember the house in the ad.  Nice collection ...
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: LowRyter on January 13, 2019, 09:12:51 AM
So can someone that's ridden one explain the riding experience vs other Guzzis?

I think they look OK.  A sportier Tonti bike.  I'll admit that I don't "get it".

I know a fellow that rides one.  First time I saw him, I was on the EV and thought nothing more than it was stripped down California (which in my mind meaning Tonti frame bike).  OK, I was ignorant and for $20k, still ignorant.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: blackcat on January 13, 2019, 09:32:24 AM
So can someone that's ridden one explain the riding experience vs other Guzzis?

I think they look OK.  A sportier Tonti bike.  I'll admit that I don't "get it".

I know a fellow that rides one.  First time I saw him, I was on the EV and thought nothing more than it was stripped down California (which in my mind meaning Tonti frame bike).  OK, I was ignorant and for $20k, still ignorant.

This is all about aesthetics.  I can ride my 07 Norge and my 1000S back to back through the same curves and the 1000S isnít really much better in terms of handling. It might feel better,  but when I look at the speedometer it isnít much faster in those same curves as the Norge.

By comparison to collectible Ducatiís, this bike is dirt cheap.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: guzzinka on January 13, 2019, 11:19:24 AM
The aesthetics are really nice, and it's been well demonstrated that they can be duplicated for a fraction of the cost of an actual 1000s.  I figure it must be the relative rarity of them that drives the collector pricing.  Way out of my plain old ordinary reality
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: usedtobefast on January 13, 2019, 11:22:47 AM
So this is my irrational dream bike.   :laugh: 
Being ignorant of market pricing, I was thinking these would be in the $8k - $12K range.  Did not realize it would be impossible to find one below $18K.

And other than them being a bit rare, I don't think they were all that special, right?  I read some articles on them and it seems like they were a very slow seller when they came out new. 

For me, it is just the look.  Love the black/green combo.  Love the pipes and chrome fenders.  Really like the tank.  The seat/tank junction looks a bit odd, but that is ok. 

After looking at prices, I starting wondering .... "What about a Quota"   :laugh:  those are usually priced pretty good. 
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: JJ on January 13, 2019, 11:34:22 AM
So this is my irrational dream bike.   :laugh: 
Being ignorant of market pricing, I was thinking these would be in the $8k - $12K range.  Did not realize it would be impossible to find one below $18K.

And other than them being a bit rare, I don't think they were all that special, right?  I read some articles on them and it seems like they were a very slow seller when they came out new. 

For me, it is just the look.  Love the black/green combo.  Love the pipes and chrome fenders.  Really like the tank.  The seat/tank junction looks a bit odd, but that is ok. 

After looking at prices, I starting wondering .... "What about a Quota"   :laugh:  those are usually priced pretty good.

Looks indeed!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :thumb: :cool: - - and here are two other earlier Guzzi models that are now going for $20,000 - $25,000!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


(https://i.ibb.co/x2XsSmv/Screen-Shot-2019-01-13-at-10-31-53-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/x2XsSmv)

(https://i.ibb.co/vHgmDnQ/Screen-Shot-2019-01-13-at-10-31-11-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/vHgmDnQ)
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: blackcat on January 13, 2019, 12:31:29 PM
I read some articles on them and it seems like they were a very slow seller when they came out new. 



Supposedly, more of them were sold at Spare Parts in Philly than any other location in the states.  They were also priced in the $10K range, so that was clearly a problem given the high suspenders MG crowd.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: s1120 on January 13, 2019, 12:37:16 PM
So this is my irrational dream bike.   :laugh: 
Being ignorant of market pricing, I was thinking these would be in the $8k - $12K range.  Did not realize it would be impossible to find one below $18K.

And other than them being a bit rare, I don't think they were all that special, right?  I read some articles on them and it seems like they were a very slow seller when they came out new. 

For me, it is just the look.  Love the black/green combo.  Love the pipes and chrome fenders.  Really like the tank.  The seat/tank junction looks a bit odd, but that is ok. 

After looking at prices, I starting wondering .... "What about a Quota"   :laugh:  those are usually priced pretty good.

Well the same day I rode one, I also rode the Melle GT .  I tell you there was a WORLD of difference between the two.. Handling, power, everything...  The 1000S was a amazing ride at least to me. I hear that some of them had the big valve LM motor..  Im guessing this one must have becouse she pulled hard!  The only thing I didnt like, and this is coming from your normal UJM bikes, the throttle was a BEAR to work.. 
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Roebling3 on January 13, 2019, 12:58:53 PM
Confession? I'm asking for an honest opinion on the 'big valve' engines power delivery compared to the standard size inlet valved engine. From limited experience putting an 855cc 'Blitz kit' (huge inlets, match ported, relieved, twin spark plugs. Linskog balance, blue printed R65), I knew I'd lose bottom end power. I imagine the big valve MG's would suffer the same 'til perhaps 3K r/m.  R3~
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Cam3512 on January 13, 2019, 05:58:43 PM
Looks indeed!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :thumb: :cool: - - and here are two other earlier Guzzi models that are now going for $20,000 - $25,000!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


(https://i.ibb.co/x2XsSmv/Screen-Shot-2019-01-13-at-10-31-53-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/x2XsSmv)

(https://i.ibb.co/vHgmDnQ/Screen-Shot-2019-01-13-at-10-31-11-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/vHgmDnQ)


The LM1, V7 Sport or 1000S are not worth $20K+ YET.  Iíd say $18K tops for a pristine example.  Anything more, and youíre over-paying.  And Iím not your typical Guzzi cheapskate, I pay good money for a nice bike. 
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Shorty on January 13, 2019, 09:31:41 PM
My buddy Tom bought one new. It was running too lean, and the dealer him he would void the warranty if he fixed it.  :angry: He tried to sell it to me for the new price: $6500 bucks. I rode it 20 miles, visually dazzled, but with a hurting back and sore wrists. Lovely bikes.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: JJ on January 14, 2019, 06:21:02 AM
In 1978, in Austin, Texas, after my 1977 Yamaha XS-750 was STOLEN, with my insurance money + a little more, I bought a new 850 Le Mans from the dealer down on North Lamar Blvd. just like this one...
I believe I paid about $3800 out the door at the time....I was 23 years old...and it was my first Guzzi...In 1980, when I moved to NORCAL, I sold it for about $3500.  Who knew?!? :shocked: :rolleyes: :shocked: :rolleyes:


(https://i.ibb.co/KyrKh1J/Screen-Shot-2019-01-14-at-5-17-09-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/KyrKh1J)
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: rocker59 on January 14, 2019, 08:06:55 AM
So can someone that's ridden one explain the riding experience vs other Guzzis?

I think they look OK.  A sportier Tonti bike.  I'll admit that I don't "get it".

I know a fellow that rides one.  First time I saw him, I was on the EV and thought nothing more than it was stripped down California (which in my mind meaning Tonti frame bike).  OK, I was ignorant and for $20k, still ignorant.

Next time you go riding with Michael D., ask him if you can ride his V7 Sport for a few miles.  That will (sort of) let you know what a sporting Tonti is about.

Or, catch a ride on a 1000 LeMans.  The 1000S is the same under the skin as a 1000 LeMans, but with the retro bodywork.

The thing about the '91 and '93 1000-S is the rarity.  They were one of the first "retro" bikes brought to market and were brought to the USA in shockingly low numbers.  That is why they sell for a premium. 
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: rocker59 on January 14, 2019, 08:09:02 AM
Confession? I'm asking for an honest opinion on the 'big valve' engines power delivery compared to the standard size inlet valved engine. From limited experience putting an 855cc 'Blitz kit' (huge inlets, match ported, relieved, twin spark plugs. Linskog balance, blue printed R65), I knew I'd lose bottom end power. I imagine the big valve MG's would suffer the same 'til perhaps 3K r/m.  R3~

The 1991 LeMans 1000 I had ran strong.  It was a great engine.  Smooth and torquey.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Devildog on January 14, 2019, 09:52:29 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/LSfK4n1/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LSfK4n1)

The 1000SE for sale in the UK, a bit cheaper and has less than 1000 miles. The green stripes sure add value.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: canuck750 on January 14, 2019, 10:22:39 AM
The LM1, V7 Sport or 1000S are not worth $20K+ YET.  Iíd say $18K tops for a pristine example.  Anything more, and youíre over-paying.  And Iím not your typical Guzzi cheapskate, I pay good money for a nice bike.


I agree with you Cam, maybe in a couple more years the bikes you list may break the $20K range
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 14, 2019, 10:38:22 AM
It's just a Tonti LeMans with retro bodywork.. not that there is anything at all wrong with a Tonti LeMans. I rode a *lot* with Guzzi Bob (RIP). He had a 1000S, 07 Norge with the suspension upgraded, and medium valve T3. They were pretty much equal in the twistys.
I was talking about this with Gordon at MG Cycle one day, and he said, "The 1000S didn't sell well. People took them out on a test ride and thought what will this high priced bike do that my T3 won't?"
I agree.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: JJ on January 14, 2019, 11:23:38 AM
It's just a Tonti LeMans with retro bodywork.. not that there is anything at all wrong with a Tonti LeMans. I rode a *lot* with Guzzi Bob (RIP). He had a 1000S, 07 Norge with the suspension upgraded, and medium valve T3. They were pretty much equal in the twistys.
I was talking about this with Gordon at MG Cycle one day, and he said, "The 1000S didn't sell well. People took them out on a test ride and thought what will this high priced bike do that my T3 won't?"
I agree.

Here is Guzzi-Bob, R.I.P., (to the far right) and his lovely "Big Valve" 1000S at our Cottonwood Guzzi N.A.R. in May 2015. :smiley: :thumb: :cool:


(https://i.ibb.co/bmFsSqk/DSC-0045.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bmFsSqk)

(https://i.ibb.co/GVfcDyD/DSC-0041.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GVfcDyD)

(https://i.ibb.co/JBW16Xy/DSC-0040.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JBW16Xy)
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 14, 2019, 12:03:11 PM
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3830/11534019974_d1038ead9e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/izdSim)P1050729 (https://flic.kr/p/izdSim) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: kfz on January 14, 2019, 01:18:45 PM
Not worth that money... 

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4440/36305176646_23a688c2a8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xjawau)IMG00225-20170514-1018 (https://flic.kr/p/Xjawau) by Kev Foote (https://www.flickr.com/photos/60904565@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: wirespokes on January 14, 2019, 04:10:22 PM
The LM4 needed a few issues resolved to be a fantastic bike, but till then it was difficult to see just how great it was. A lot of guys didn't like the 16" front wheel. The throttle springs were way too stiff, and worst of all, the jetting was atrocious. Well, probably one of the biggest strikes was the styling. But add that all up and they didn't sell all that well.

I got the 87 LM a couple years ago with low miles and much work done over the years. But it still needed quite a bit of sorting out. The 16 had been swapped for the 18" front, but the tires were still the 80 series which didn't suit the bike at all. It didn't want to lay over. The jetting had been converted to the European spec, but still ran awful, so a little fiddling with Ed's recommended jetting got it running much much better. The thing is a real hot rod now and really jerks my chain.

But the looks really turn me off. I just haven't warmed up to them at all and have wondered what I could do to make it more appealing. So I'm converting an 85 LM to a 1000S. I love the LM4 enough to go through the trouble. 

And anyone who says the LM4 is comparable to the T3 is sorely mistaken. They're two entirely different beasts. Once you get the LM4 running properly there's no comparison! 
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Tom on January 14, 2019, 04:22:21 PM
 :thumb: to the LM IV.  Save the body plastic. 

Both of my 1000S bikes "pull" better because of the torque compared to a mid-valve like my SP or Strada.  On the mid-valves, it's keeping the rpm's up so that it doesn't take longer for the engine to "pull" the load.  IIRC the shorter swingarm makes them a tad quicker in tight turns like Alpine hairpins.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Cam3512 on January 14, 2019, 05:43:49 PM

I agree with you Cam, maybe in a couple more years the bikes you list may break the $20K range

That being said, if I had the money to just piss away and not even make a dent?  Iíd overpay for one in a heartbeat.  Itís just a beautiful bike. 
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: jwinwi on January 14, 2019, 05:48:22 PM
Why do the carbs have flat tops instead of the bell crank type? :popcorn:
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: kfz on January 15, 2019, 04:10:13 AM
Why do the carbs have flat tops instead of the bell crank type? :popcorn:

Probably because they awful and make the throttle stupid heavy for no reason.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: blackcat on January 15, 2019, 06:39:32 AM
Itís just a beautiful bike.

Exactly. 

The reason a Mille GT is currently worth $3,700 dollars vs. the normally $18,000 for a 1000S has nothing to do with equal performance.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: wirespokes on January 15, 2019, 10:11:31 AM
I'll bet it wouldn't cost all that much to makeover a Mille to a 1000S. But even so, it still wouldn't fetch 18 big ones.

Here's a fun read you might enjoy:

http://yewemmgee.blogspot.com/2011/07/moto-guzzi-1000s.html
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: blackcat on January 15, 2019, 11:56:08 AM
I'll bet it wouldn't cost all that much to makeover a Mille to a 1000S. But even so, it still wouldn't fetch 18 big ones.

Here's a fun read you might enjoy:

http://yewemmgee.blogspot.com/2011/07/moto-guzzi-1000s.html

Shrug. Almost 70,000 miles on mine with the large final drive seal going bad and the Ducati voltage regulator being the only maintenance issues. He is complaining about 50-55mpg. WTF?

The Mille would need a tank, side covers, front and rear fenders, clip-ons, lower front forks to mount fenders, fender mounts, rear sets or the rare and easily breakable foot rest brackets and foot pegs & the clock holders. And of course a paint job.  In the end youíd have a $9-10 thousand dollar bike that was worth more in the itís new parts. 
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: boxer.randy on January 15, 2019, 01:25:15 PM
In the early 90ís , I traded in my lovely 88 Ducati 750 F1S for an orange/black big valve 1000S. The duck was painful to ride, temperamental at best and I was not allowed to pickle it and park it in the living room. Oh well. The 1000S was interesting but not for all the right reasons. I put a BMW cafe fairing on it and painted/striped to match. Looked great. It was a heavy beast, the low bars and heavy throttle springs would make your hands/wrists cry in agony. The brakes were so so , but you better plan ahead. In a straight line it was great, but you had to be a manly man to muscle it thru the corners. I put Lafranconi sports with whizzer tips on. The sound was fabulous. Typical Guzzi - give it gas and it charged ahead like a big locomotive. In the end , my arms/shoulders couldnít take it anymore and off it went. I hope it still has a good home.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: LowRyter on January 15, 2019, 03:12:45 PM
The one I saw took more of a man than me to pull the throttle.  I suppose I am literally too limp wrist-ed to live with one.  This must be one of the stiffest throttles of all time.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: s1120 on January 15, 2019, 03:49:35 PM
The one I saw took more of a man than me to pull the throttle.  I suppose I am literally too limp wrist-ed to live with one.  This must be one of the stiffest throttles of all time.

You know after all these years its nice to hear I was not the only one.. I was lead to believe they were all like that.. Granted I still loved the bike.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: wirespokes on January 15, 2019, 04:43:00 PM
You know, in my life I've had some pretty cool cars and bikes but sold them for reasons I now consider pretty minor or easily handled. I wasn't always this smart. So I do understand selling a really cool bike because the throttle was much too stiff. That was one of the things already taken care of on my 87 LM4. But I do know that of which you speak - the 85 LM project is pretty much stock with all three throttle springs intact. Damn, that's a STIFF throttle. It's so stiff, the foam grip would rather slide on the throttle tube than hold its position. On the test ride my hand got sore squeezing hard enough to keep the carbs open. I don't know how the bike could have ever been sold new that way.

I've ridden other bikes with Dellortos and they weren't THAT bad.

As for the clip ons - they're actually not very radical at all, not with the taller steering head. It's kind of like my R100RS, except the bars are wider. A lot of guys can't handle the RS position either, or the short bars, but they've always been fine with me.

I don't understand the comment that these bikes take a lot of muscle to corner. My 87LM didn't want to corner and took a fair amount of muscle before I got smart and changed the 80 series tires to 90s. This 87 has more trail than the 1000S so I can't imagine the S being more work. My LM steers as easily as the T3.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 15, 2019, 05:30:38 PM
Quote
I don't understand the comment that these bikes take a lot of muscle to corner.
Me, either. <scratching head> GuzziBob was a little guy, and he could show most riders the way up or down the mountain.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Tom on January 15, 2019, 07:58:19 PM
I have no problems with the feel of the front tire.  Maybe a low tire pressure would explain this for the front.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: wirespokes on January 15, 2019, 08:34:19 PM
Forgot to comment on the brakes. You know, I started riding in the 60s and anything newer than that is more than enough for me. The two pot Brembos with 270mm discs is plenty. However, my bike was de-linked before I got it and I like it. But... the tech that de-linked the brakes installed a larger master specified for dual discs. In actual fact, he should have installed a smaller rear master and left the original front. Since I got the original front in a box of parts with the bike, I installed it for the hell of it. Let me tell you - I mostly use one finger now - sometimes two. I have absolutely no complaints about the brakes on the LM4 - and they're the same as the 1000S.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: s1120 on January 16, 2019, 06:01:58 AM

As for the clip ons - they're actually not very radical at all, not with the taller steering head. It's kind of like my R100RS, except the bars are wider. A lot of guys can't handle the RS position either, or the short bars, but they've always been fine with me.

I don't understand the comment that these bikes take a lot of muscle to corner. My 87LM didn't want to corner and took a fair amount of muscle before I got smart and changed the 80 series tires to 90s. This 87 has more trail than the 1000S so I can't imagine the S being more work. My LM steers as easily as the T3.

I liked the clipons..  But in my case I have vary long Albatross arms..  With the normal high, pull back bars that cruzer bikes have Im all cramped up feeling like a T-Rex riding it..  Coming from my early 80's UJM custom era bikes, the steering was nice.. I guess if you came from the same era sportbikes it would feel a lot slower.
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: Tom on January 16, 2019, 01:13:08 PM
I really don't get the slow steering into turns thing.   :tongue:  I've read the comments posted.  One conclusion that I have is that the ecu behind the handlebars needs a reboot.  :grin:  For the record, I'm 5'8" at 160 lbs.  but I also ride Alpine style mountain roads a lot with tight hairpin turns. 
Title: Re: 1991 1000S on Ebay
Post by: cliffrod on January 16, 2019, 01:25:48 PM
After lots of street miles on both my V7 Sport (not a 1000S, but just for reference) with plain straight Tommaselli clip-ons and my best friends 1987 Ducati F1B retired race bike, I could see where someone used to a similar platform Ducati would see a difference riding a Tonti-frame Guzzi.  If you are used to a Guzzi, a hot F1 is a wheelie king that is simple to steer with knees pinched and what looks like no motorcycle beneath you.  Being used to a invisible Ducati like that, a Guzzi might seem unwieldy whether or not it really is.   My time on them was concurrent, so was easy to experience the differences.

If that mentioned F1S was temperamental and high maintenance, that's not an inherent trait of those bikes.  It was more related to that specific bike.

I think it's what you're used to as a point of reference.  My 95 900SS left here a few years ago.  Same deal.  I like my Guzzi better.