Author Topic: Tonti linked brake bleeding  (Read 218 times)

Offline brider

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Tonti linked brake bleeding
« on: March 25, 2019, 10:02:11 AM »
Kind of nervous to begin this process, even though I've bled brakes on a dozen different vehicles.

But not a Linked Tonti system. I read what I could thru the Search function, and it seems a large percentage of respondents advocate reverse-bleeding. Would this be done with an apparatus that screws into the bleeder hole on the caliper with the bleeder nipple removed, or with a hose attached to the open nipple? What kind of apparatus could provide pressure to do this? A squeeze-bottle?

I have a vacuum pump that I use as intended, but my fear is dealing with that junction on the Left frame  where the hose from the pedal goes IN, and separate lines to the front and rear go out.

Can I get a new, fresh set of consensii on how to make sure this junction gets bled?
'85 Cal II Auto
'86 LM IV (sold)
'71 Ambo project
Wish'd I'd never sold:
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Online Perazzimx14

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2019, 10:07:13 AM »
Reverse bleed them and in 15 minutes you'll be thinking damn that was too easy and I only needed a 1/2 cup of brake fluid. This also works great for traditional brakes. After doing this several times I threw away my Mity Vac as it is much harder to get anywhere close to the same results.

1. Suck all the fluid out of the rear master cylinder
2. Connect hose to the junction block valve bleed nipple and extend up and then down into a catch can. This will make an air trap.
3. Fill syringe with clean brake fluid and put it on the front caliper bleed nipple. Always start with the furthest caliper away from the master cylinder. 
4. Open the junction block bleed valve then open the caliper bleed nipple and slowly add pressure to the syringe plunger and push fluid into the caliper and out through the junction block. Just before the syringe is empty close the caliper bleed nippl and then the junction block bleed nopple. This is why you ran the hose up hill before going to the catch can. The uphill section of hose stays filled with fluid blocking air from sucking back in.

Note: Depending on the size of the syringe you make need to repeat the above a coupe times until all the old fluid is expelled.

5. Next move to the rear caliper and repeat.
6. After the calipers are bled you need to then bleed from the junction block to the master cylinder reservoir. This is the same process except you inject fluid from the junction block and push it into the master cylinder.

A 60cc syringe and a foot or so of 1/4" rubber tubing are all the speciality tools you need to source. Tractor Supply or any farm and fleet store has both for a few dollars.

 
 


 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 10:22:42 AM by Perazzimx14 »


Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2019, 10:07:21 AM »
You need a good sized syringe and hose that fits the nipple. I have a repurposed Cajun injector with replaceable o ring that works well. Farm stores have big syringes..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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Offline brider

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2019, 11:34:28 AM »
Reverse bleed them and in 15 minutes you'll be thinking damn that was too easy and I only needed a 1/2 cup of brake fluid. This also works great for traditional brakes. After doing this several times I threw away my Mity Vac as it is much harder to get anywhere close to the same results.

1. Suck all the fluid out of the rear master cylinder
2. Connect hose to the junction block valve bleed nipple and extend up and then down into a catch can. This will make an air trap.
3. Fill syringe with clean brake fluid and put it on the front caliper bleed nipple. Always start with the furthest caliper away from the master cylinder. 
4. Open the junction block bleed valve then open the caliper bleed nipple and slowly add pressure to the syringe plunger and push fluid into the caliper and out through the junction block. Just before the syringe is empty close the caliper bleed nippl and then the junction block bleed nopple. This is why you ran the hose up hill before going to the catch can. The uphill section of hose stays filled with fluid blocking air from sucking back in.

5. Next move to the rear caliper and repeat.
6. After the calipers are bled you need to then bleed from the junction block to the master cylinder reservoir. This is the same process except you inject fluid from the junction block and push it into the master cylinder.

A 60cc syringe and a foot or so of 1/4" rubber tubing are all the speciality tools you need to source. Tractor Supply or any farm and fleet store has both for a few dollars.

Eureka! Why didn't anyone describe this so clearly before! (maybe they did?...) I have a Tractor supply near me so AWAY I go.....

One thing though: I'm not sure my junction has a bleeder....I read other posts where this is mentioned, and I didn't see one at first glance last night. I'll look again, but I would imagine that without a junction bleeder, the process just goes from a caliper to the MC.
'85 Cal II Auto
'86 LM IV (sold)
'71 Ambo project
Wish'd I'd never sold:
'72 Red Eldo
'74 White Eldo LAPD
'77 Convert with DB bags
'06 Gas Gas EC300

Online Perazzimx14

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2019, 11:42:23 AM »
Yes if there are no bleeders on the junction block push to fluid to the master cylinder.

Also if you get a syringe with a pointed nozzle it doesn't hurt to tape, tie wire or epoxy the hose onto it.


Offline canuck750

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2019, 12:11:18 PM »
I strongly recommend you replace the stock Brembo bleeders with Speed Bleeders, it makes for an easy job.
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Online Perazzimx14

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2019, 12:25:51 PM »
I strongly recommend you replace the stock Brembo bleeders with Speed Bleeders, it makes for an easy job.

Speed bleeders will not work with reverse bleeding.

Offline Tom H

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2019, 01:24:08 PM »
Speed bleeders will not work with reverse bleeding.


I was going to mention this as well.

I bled my bike with the speed bleeders. Next time I will try with the stock bleeders and the syringe.

BTW: my bike does not have a bleeder on the junction block.

Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
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1970 Ambo
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Online Diploman

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2019, 01:50:26 PM »
I concur thoroughly with Perazzimx14's reverse-bleeding instructions.  This method has the advantage of forcing air in the brake system upwards away from the calipers to the highest point - the junction block.   This is where air will naturally accumulate if any resides in the lines.  The key is that the junction block is installed at the highest point in the linked system.My SP NT is set up this way, and bleeding the linked system is simple, using the junction block bleeder as the outlet for air.

My V50II was not fitted with a high-mounted junction block on its linked system - just a splitter at the rear MC.  This made the linked system a real bother to bleed.  To overcome this, I deleted the MC -to- forward hard line, replacing it with a stainless woven steel line.   At the highest point in the system - under the tank - I fitted a junction block with bleeder (parts from MG and Bevel Heaven). This setup allows absurdly easy and fast linked system bleeding as described by Perazzimx14.  If your bike does not have a high-mounted junction block with bleeder, I recommend you install one if you want to readily utilize the excellent Guzzi "Integral Brake" system.



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Online Kiwi Dave

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2019, 01:55:16 PM »
I strongly recommend you replace the stock Brembo bleeders with Speed Bleeders, it makes for an easy job.

Anybody know the which model speed bleeders are suitable for the California Vintage?

Offline Frenchfrog

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2019, 02:11:06 PM »
Never needed anything fancy....just unbolt the front and rear calipers, insert a suitably sized piece of wood in place of the disk and raise them both above the frame brake line. All the bubbles will rise to the calipers so bleeding them completely becomes easy peasy.You could even improvise a couple of temporary brackets to take the calipers.

Offline canuck750

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2019, 02:22:41 PM »
Speed bleeders will not work with reverse bleeding.

Yes that is true but with speed bleeders you don't need to reverse bleed, just open up the bleeders and pump away while adding fluid to the reservoir.

Reverse bleeding may be a better option but speed bleeders are cheap and easy to use.


http://speedbleeder.com/Motorcycle%20Sizes.htm


1949 Guzzi Airone
1958 Guzzi Cardellino
1972 Guzzi Eldorado
1972 Benelli Enduro
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1973 Laverda SF1
1973 Benelli 650S
1974 Guzzi 750S
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2
1975 Ducati 860 GT
1978 Moto Morini 500
2015 KLR 650
2016 BMW K1600

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1973 V7 Sport
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Online Perazzimx14

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2019, 03:08:02 PM »
Yes that is true but with speed bleeders you don't need to reverse bleed, just open up the bleeders and pump away while adding fluid to the reservoir.

Reverse bleeding may be a better option but speed bleeders are cheap and easy to use.


http://speedbleeder.com/Motorcycle%20Sizes.htm


Speed bleeders are $8 to $12 a pair I have dual bleed caliper on the rear of the SP + 2 bleeders on the front calipers and one on the junction block so that's 5 bleeders or a cost of $20 to $28 to outfit my SP. Or a $2 syringe and a section of hose.


Not saying speed bleeders are effective but to me not worth the money.

Offline canuck750

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2019, 03:36:27 PM »

Speed bleeders are $8 to $12 a pair I have dual bleed caliper on the rear of the SP + 2 bleeders on the front calipers and one on the junction block so that's 5 bleeders or a cost of $20 to $28 to outfit my SP. Or a $2 syringe and a section of hose.


Not saying speed bleeders are effective but to me not worth the money.

That's good advice, I had no idea you could reverse bleed with a simple syringe, always though a fancy vacuum type pump was needed and I had bad luck with those in the past.
1949 Guzzi Airone
1958 Guzzi Cardellino
1972 Guzzi Eldorado
1972 Benelli Enduro
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1973 Laverda SF1
1973 Benelli 650S
1974 Guzzi 750S
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2
1975 Ducati 860 GT
1978 Moto Morini 500
2015 KLR 650
2016 BMW K1600

SOLD
1973 V7 Sport
1975 750 S3
1977 Le Mans
1993 1000

Offline Tom H

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2019, 04:40:25 PM »
On my EVT there is only 3 bleeders to replace, so price is not that bad.

When I changed my MC I had to bleed the system. I asked questions and followed the advice here. One tip was to remove the rear caliper, insert a block of wood between the pads and invert it so the bleeder was on top.

Everything went well until I bled the rear caliper and then had no front brake. Rebled the front then lost the rear. Fought with this for a bit. I did finally manage to get the lines bled by bleeding the rear and then the front. Once I figured that it needed to be done this way it was fairly easy.

At least on my 2004 EVT, in the hard line from the junction block to the front wheel is a valve that will keep the fluid from going to the front until there is a certain amount of pressure, then the fluid will flow. The valve is designed to allow the fluid to return back to the MC without pressure.

I do not understand how air was getting in the front line as I bled the rear, but it was. Yes I even closed the front speed bleeder to make sure it wasn't leaking, didn't matter tight, or loose ready to work.

When I need to bleed the brakes, I will use the speed bleeders again since they are installed. IF they fight me again, even though I think I know the trick, I will switch back to the originals and use the syringe.

I do have the speed bleeders on my HD. They sure make changing the fluid on it soooo much easier!

Good luck!!
Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Offline guzzista

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Re: Tonti linked brake bleeding
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2019, 06:27:40 PM »
OTC makes a hose speed bleeder which you simply move from one nipple to another and you can use on a lot of vehicles so the price is infinitely better than individual purchases (  Guzzi content fo' sho')
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-4599?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-otc-tools&gclid=CjwKCAjw-OHkBRBkEiwAoOZqlxzYkgrtVqkPP8Dm75L3-kmEoPiPI5TUcrbZ-fw1xHdstLGJRUtZCRoC4-0QAvD_BwE
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