Author Topic: Electrical question  (Read 498 times)

Offline Guzzidad

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Electrical question
« on: April 20, 2019, 06:47:42 PM »
   I'm in the process of bringing my long dormant 96 1100 Sport back to life. (Ran when I parked it  :laugh:) It's been sitting 14 years. I've fixed the mechanical issues that prompted me to park it in the first place. Starts and runs good. But I'm not convinced the charging system is working right. I'm getting AC voltage from the alternator, but not as much as I expected. And the yellow wires going to the R/R are getting real hot. So is the R/R. DC voltage at the battery never climbs over 12.4 DC. The R/R is well grounded. I guess it's worth mentioning, the bike has 123,000 miles, and never had a charging problem before. But then again, she sat silent for a long time. Any ideas?

Online davedel44

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2019, 07:23:31 PM »
Just dealt with this on my 2013 Stone.  I'd hazard a guess that yours is the r/r as was mine.  After replacement I'm getting 13.5-13.8v at the the battery.

Basically  checked ground, then continuity from two yellow wires from stator to connector to RR. Under tank. AC Voltage at that point.Continuity from connector to RR. Voltage at that point also about 12.5V
Then voltage at battery.

Sounds like same problem to my inexperienced mechanically-challenged mind.  Thank goodness I had dear friend and fellow Guzzita just down the block.

Harpers was able to source OEM R/R in States about 175.00 shipped.

Search for Battery  Woes Thread.

Good Luck,
Dave
Galveston
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 07:26:06 PM by davedel44 »
Bambino- 2013 V7 Stone


Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2019, 11:42:10 PM »
The yellow wires shouldn't be getting hot, check the bullet connectors perhaps they are causing the heat, you can usually see signs of discolouration if they are heating up, you can always crimp the wires together.
Perhaps replace the regulator rec with one of the more modern direct connection type.

Update,
            The bullet connectors on the regulator are particularly rugged, not the usual cheap ones available at the usual source. if there's any resistance at all they will soon smoke up, much better to use crimp connections.

 Check the connections to the coils under the alternator cover, if they are suspect at all solder in a pair of new wires, make them a foot or two longer than they need to be and crimp them onto the Reg/rec wires then if ever you need to disconnect just chop the wires and shorten them up a few inches each time. Dip the wires in Vaseline before crimping them and they will never corrode in the crimp, especially in a wet area like the front of the engine.
There is stacks of spare Voltage in the AC side of the regulator, you can afford to lose a Volt or two but the DC side should be extended.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 10:07:11 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
07 Griso 1100
17 V7iii Special

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since 1921

Online Old Jock

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2019, 03:41:24 AM »
As Roy said

A lot Ducati's have the same problem where the connectors create resistance and the whole thing melts, make sure all your connections are good, or replace with high current components or solder (but that makes it a faff when you need to separate them)

First check all the grounds are good and clean and the battery is up to snuff first. (Modified post here but charge the battery out the bike let it sit for an hour and measure the Voltage, you should have close to 13 on a good battery. If the battery is poor then it can drag down the whole system until it charges. The battery acts like a resevoir and can make you think the whole sytem is defective when it's siimply the battery)

When you said you checked Alt was giving voltage but not as much as you expected, what were you getting?

According to the manual I have

15V 1000RPM
40V 3000RPM
80V 6000RPM

If you are replacing Reg/Rec personally I'd go for a Shindengen unit, spendy but my attitude is put in quality and it will last.

John
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 07:50:22 AM by Old Jock »

Offline Murray

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2019, 04:03:55 AM »
Hav ehad a good run out of an Acel reg for HD "big" evo motors, what others have said might also be worth checking where the wires connect to the stator. 12.4 volts is well below where it should be at the battery. It might also be worth checking the charge wire through to the battery, through one of the molex connectors I had a pin corrode and shear off.

Offline Guzzidad

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2019, 08:56:37 PM »
   Called www.electrosport.co m today and in two minutes the rep told me how to test the R/R. OMG! Lucky my bike didn't start on fire. New R/R on order, 2 days delivery.

Offline Guzzidad

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 08:58:51 PM »
  Also, thanks to Old Jock for the voltage outputs from the alternator. Mine was right in line.

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2019, 05:21:03 AM »
Which model Electrosport did you go with?
There are several variations but basically two types series or shunt.
The original regulator was a Ducati Energia Series type if i'm not mistaken.
Using a shunt regulator with those overheating wires might not be a good idea.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 05:31:02 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
07 Griso 1100
17 V7iii Special

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since 1921

Offline Guzzidad

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2019, 07:53:35 AM »
   I ordered the original Ducati energia style R/R. I'm sure the wires were getting hot because there was a dead short between the A/C wires and the shell of the R/R

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2019, 08:52:14 AM »
Make sure that the two connections from the alternator to the RR (should be two yellow wires) are clean and tight. They get very hot and often fail.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientist have discovered...."

Online jpv7

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2019, 08:58:32 AM »
As Roy said

A lot Ducati's have the same problem where the connectors create resistance and the whole thing melts, make sure all your connections are good, or replace with high current components or solder (but that makes it a faff when you need to separate them)

First check all the grounds are good and clean and the battery is up to snuff first. (Modified post here but charge the battery out the bike let it sit for an hour and measure the Voltage, you should have close to 13 on a good battery. If the battery is poor then it can drag down the whole system until it charges. The battery acts like a resevoir and can make you think the whole sytem is defective when it's siimply the battery)

When you said you checked Alt was giving voltage but not as much as you expected, what were you getting?

According to the manual I have

15V 1000RPM
40V 3000RPM
80V 6000RPM

If you are replacing Reg/Rec personally I'd go for a Shindengen unit, spendy but my attitude is put in quality and it will last.

John
A shame Ducati did that...there was nothing really wrong with 90's era Ducati charging systems other that the connectors.  Hard wired my 900ss when it was new and the bike provided many trouble free miles.  +1 on the Shindegen - put one in my '95 916 from Flea Bay and it worked great.

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2019, 12:42:09 PM »
I don't believe there is anything wrong with the original Ducati Energia Series regulator, it's the wiring on the bike that lets it down. The relays and bases build up resistance which upsets the regulator Voltage reference causing it to overcharge and cook the regulator, that's why I switched to a direct connect Electrosport on my VII Sport.
I have an old Shindengen off a 70s Kawasaki I would use if I needed to.

Honda Goldwings used to burn out their alternator when the three leads built up resistance at the wet area of the gearbox, the fix on those is to solder the wires together.
So take a good look at the yellow wires on your Guzzi and toss the leads if there is ant sign of overheating.
72 Eldorado
07 Griso 1100
17 V7iii Special

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since 1921

Offline Guzzidad

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2019, 06:18:41 PM »
   Installed the new R/R and all is well. No more hot wires and the charging system is working as it should.

Online Old Jock

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Re: Electrical question
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2019, 03:22:02 AM »
Great news and thank you for posting up the fix and closing out the thread

I despair when members post up a problem and don't come back to tell how it turned out.

When a thread is closed out properly it gives others a chance to find a solution, if they are experiencing similar issues

John

 

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