Author Topic: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction  (Read 25809 times)

lemans1000

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MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« on: March 18, 2012, 07:43:57 AM »
Hy guys!

Regards from Croatia,

This is mine MG Le Mans IV. I've been riding this bike for 7 years now, without any problems, now is time for some refreshing...all the wires need to be changed, starter need also to be refreshed, paint on the frame is all scratched...I would like another color...all together, a lot of work... ;D

Here is the bike:


But, when the fuel tank and seat is down, picture is much different:




The plan is:
- take everything down
- sandblast the frame
- paint the frame
- paint the rest of the bike
- make a new seat - for only one, cafe race seat
- engine is running fine, no oil consumption, no smoke, no "noise", maybe just to change clutch
- new tires
- new electrical installation

So .. much work ...but I have time, desire to do this...and I got some money.... ;D
I will do everything alone, except the wires...I hate wires....this I will leave to my friend...he likes wires...

Till next time...Regards

BillinAbilene

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2012, 08:07:32 AM »

Best of luck with your project!  Keep us posted.

Bill



Guzziscoot

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2012, 08:14:52 AM »
It's a very very nice! Should make an awesome cafe'. Post more pics with progress please.

lemans1000

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2012, 08:35:23 AM »
Thanks guys  ;-T

My only problem at this time is that everything I need (parts) I have to order from outside (Germany and Italy). That will take my time and more money, but that's how it goes....

lemans1000

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2012, 02:19:37 PM »
Everything is removed, frame is ready for sandblasting. In the meanwhile, I'm dealing with cleaning and refurbishing small parts, like, headlamp, coil holder...etc.











Now...my worry is drive shaft; it has some rust on surface...I will try to remove the rust, teeths are ok, just surface rust. If not, I will buy a new one.

Offline LeRoy

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2012, 09:51:11 PM »
If it will be helpful, I can send you a CD with all of the factory manuals (Workshop, Parts, Owner's, etc). The CD also has many other useful things for your project: wiring diagrams (for your friend who likes wires), engine assembly procedures, transmission rebuild, carburetor manuals. It also has copies of the Le Mans IV brochures, advertisements and parts catalogs from Moto Guzzi spares suppliers.

Send me a PM with your mailing address and I will send you the CD. Free of charge.

By the way, very nice bike and the basis of a great project. I have a 1986 Le Mans IV myself since it was new.
LeRoy (Bob Sharp)
Rochester, MI  U.S.A.
'86 LM 1000 (since new in '86)
'79 V1000 G5 (as of '08 and since sold)
'76 V1000 Convert (since Nov. 09)
'83 1000SP (as of Oct. 15)

lemans1000

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2012, 04:17:05 PM »
A little help, please..

Is this ready for change?






Maybe a stupid question, but, it's my first time....
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 04:18:46 PM by lemans1000 »

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2012, 04:31:15 PM »
It's history. Sorry about the bad news.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

lemans1000

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 07:29:18 AM »
Thank you for answer. Now, there is no alternative but to obtain a new crownwheel/pinion set.

I have taken the bolts on plate in wich is the oil seal, but now I don't know how to remove this plate. Is there some trick how to take this plate down (number 23 on picture), without braking something?




Offline thomas

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2012, 03:43:16 PM »
In my humble opinion those splines are still in very good shape. There are no shiny wear marks anywhere and the tooth profile on the splines is like new.
As a test, fit the connecting sleeve back over them and feel for play by wiggling it back and forth. I'm confident that there will be virtually no play. You can then perform the same test on the gearbox output splines and I don't think you'll see much wear there either. If there is any wear it is likely to be on the connecting sleeve.

I think you should just replace the big main oil seal and keep on using the final drive without stripping it further. Don't mess with something that isn't broken. Many Tonti-framed Guzzis have done a lot more mileage than yours without the need to replace the final drive pinion shaft.

Regards
Thomas
Guzzi riders represent the ragged fringe of motorcycling!
1980 Guzzi SP1000 & 1979 Guzzi 850 LeMans II
1969 Honda CB750 Four & 1971 CB750 Four & 1977 Seeley CB750F
1996 Yamaha YZF750SP
1983 Bimota KB-3
1966 Ducati 50 SL/1
1938 Miele 98cc & 1955? Miele 50cc

Offline Pancake

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2012, 03:22:02 AM »
The plate (no23) was a bugger to remove in my case! I had to strip mine apart because something had tried to escape from the drive box and made a small hole in the side which leaked oil. It turned out to be one of the crown wheel bolts which had loosened and come off, then later got flung at the inside of the casing repeatedly until it made a hole.

Anyway my cover plate seemed to be glued on, or at least had some kind of mastic or something which made it a real bugger to remove! Apparently this is not uncommon on mid eighties bikes, according to someone from Motomecca in the UK. Try heating the perimeter to loosen whatever is sticking it and striking the flanges with a wooden mallet or soft hammer. I ended up damaging the sides of the cover (when trying to prise it off with a big screwdriver) in getting it off but made repairs with chemical metal before reassembly.

There may be better ways, and I hope there are, but that worked for me but not in a way that seems correct- I shouldn't have to damage something to get it apart!

Don't forget to replace all the crown wheel bolts when you get in there.

Good luck!
May all beings be happy

Offline Luxexterior

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2012, 03:36:04 AM »
Looks like you have a really nice bike that is about to get even better. ;-T

The splines on your photo don't look too bad, I've seen worse. Has there been a problem while you were riding the bike?

A good European source of Guzzi parts at reasonable price is Reboot (email; rebootguzzispares@hotmail.co.uk) they are a UK business based in France. They break a lot of Guzzi's old & new & are also really helpful & reasonably priced.

I love Croatia Its one of my favourite countries, I particularly like the Dubrovnik area & try to get over there as often as I can. Good luck with your project. ;D

steve_earwig

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2012, 03:45:23 AM »
Hi there, I'm Steve and, apparently, I like wires ??? Well, not really but I used to be a telephone linesman so a handfull of wires doesn't make me want to run away screaming ;D

I've joined your board to do some more research on Molex connectors (wish I'd found it sooner but it looks like I've got it right...)

Anyway, while I'm here I can give you a swift update on Goran's Guzzi - he's got the cover off (tap it round with a very soft drift) and yes, I'm all for "if it aint broke don't fix it" but the final drive is so close to a write-off it's a miracle it was still going. I'm sure Goran will post some pics when he gets time (he has one of those horrible job things too, poor chap) but, similar to you Pancake, one of the bolts had not just come loose, it had sheered off :o I've only seen pictures myself but it looks like there are shards of metal embedded in the crownwheel. I've been on the bike but never detected anything strange coming from the back end (too much strange from everywhere else perhaps :P) I can only think it's continued existence was down to the numpty that had it apart last not troubling himself with the cover shims, leaving the pinion room to go over the damage without locking the final drive & turning Goran into a pedestrian...

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2012, 09:51:57 AM »
In my humble opinion those splines are still in very good shape. There are no shiny wear marks anywhere and the tooth profile on the splines is like new.
As a test, fit the connecting sleeve back over them and feel for play by wiggling it back and forth. I'm confident that there will be virtually no play. You can then perform the same test on the gearbox output splines and I don't think you'll see much wear there either. If there is any wear it is likely to be on the connecting sleeve.

I think you should just replace the big main oil seal and keep on using the final drive without stripping it further. Don't mess with something that isn't broken. Many Tonti-framed Guzzis have done a lot more mileage than yours without the need to replace the final drive pinion shaft.

Regards
Thomas

Take another look at picture 2. There's not much left of the splines. That's what normally trashes the rear drive. It costs quite a bit more for a crown wheel and pinion than a used servicable rear drive can be bought for.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline thomas

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2012, 02:46:29 PM »
If the insides are knackered you have no choice but to replace everything.
Guzzi riders represent the ragged fringe of motorcycling!
1980 Guzzi SP1000 & 1979 Guzzi 850 LeMans II
1969 Honda CB750 Four & 1971 CB750 Four & 1977 Seeley CB750F
1996 Yamaha YZF750SP
1983 Bimota KB-3
1966 Ducati 50 SL/1
1938 Miele 98cc & 1955? Miele 50cc

lemans1000

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2012, 03:30:22 PM »
In my humble opinion those splines are still in very good shape.

No, my friend, it isn't....especially if you make a lot of kilometers with the bike...I ask on this forum, is this ok, and when I look in original spare part catalog, then I see it's far from a good one...

Pictures?....just one moment please, my daughter will now go to sleep...I hope... ;D
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 03:32:36 PM by lemans1000 »

lemans1000

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2012, 03:49:47 PM »
Here's what happens inside.....fun and games...and far, far away from good...

Screws that hold the crownwheel were completely free, I unscrew them with my hand..one has broken sometime, but not while I am the owner, so the case hase some damage.




Remains of the bolt head...



And, I must say...that didn't happend to me, because if did, surely would have heard that...so, this is inside for 7 years now....and 100.000 km...I think I'm a lucky guy...

Offline Pancake

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2012, 04:14:05 PM »
Check the threads in the part which the crown wheel bolts to because when the threads were partially stripped in the hole where the bolt had come out of (the one which rattled around and tried to get out, leaving a patina of marks very similar to those in your photo). Not only that, a couple of others which were merely loose also had weak threads which could not take the torque of re tightening. I eventually had the whole lot helicoiled. The high tensile bolts are expensive and I don't want you to damage them by trying to tighten them into damaged threads and then have to go and buy a load more as I did.

You said that some of the bolts were only hand tight? Check those ones particularly, run a cheap bolt into it and see if it comes back out in perfect condition before you try one of the expensive ones.
May all beings be happy

kidneb

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2012, 04:44:10 PM »
Splines are surely close to worn out and crown wheel knackered,- new drive needed.
When I bought my LM3 , imported from Italy with only 24000 km on the clock, I found fragments of a broken crown wheel tooth in the rear drive,- big lump actually. Glad I found it in time.
I just want to warn you about buying a new drive from Stein Dinse in Germany.They are not original Guzzi drives, and there are reports from people saying they can`t be shimmed up properly.
Better find a used original one in good condition.
 And there we are-
 I do have a perfectly nice original 7/33 drive (crown wheel- and pinion drive correctly shimmed in its housing) on my shelf, which I believe I can do without.- If you should be interested.
 And believe me,- I am not a business man. I just like to drive my Guzzi and keep it going,- and I like the bike you`re working on.
 I can send you pictures of course,- if wanted.

 Cheers and good luck with the project anyway.

      

kidneb

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2012, 04:46:10 PM »
Check the threads in the part which the crown wheel bolts to because when the threads were partially stripped in the hole where the bolt had come out of (the one which rattled around and tried to get out, leaving a patina of marks very similar to those in your photo). Not only that, a couple of others which were merely loose also had weak threads which could not take the torque of re tightening. I eventually had the whole lot helicoiled. The high tensile bolts are expensive and I don't want you to damage them by trying to tighten them into damaged threads and then have to go and buy a load more as I did.

You said that some of the bolts were only hand tight? Check those ones particularly, run a cheap bolt into it and see if it comes back out in perfect condition before you try one of the expensive ones.


 :+1
What the man says

lemans1000

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2012, 04:51:41 PM »
I just want to warn you about buying a new drive from Stein Dinse in Germany.They are not original Guzzi drives

Yes, I heard of it from a friend of mine, who lives in Germany. Tomorrow I'm going to see a friend of mine, to see what he have for me. If there is no other way, (and I will know this tomorrow...) please, tell me on PM details about your crown wheel- and pinion, price, payment etc....

Thanks in advance and good night everyone....and don't forget; work work work and then deep sleep....that's my moto....except Moto G...

Offline Luxexterior

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2012, 09:12:21 AM »
Here's what happens inside.....fun and games...and far, far away from good...

Screws that hold the crownwheel were completely free, I unscrew them with my hand..one has broken sometime, but not while I am the owner, so the case hase some damage.




Remains of the bolt head...



And, I must say...that didn't happend to me, because if did, surely would have heard that...so, this is inside for 7 years now....and 100.000 km...I think I'm a lucky guy...




Yeah you are absolutely right its dead. Sorry I couldn't see it on the first pics. If you don't get sorted with kidneb, drop Reboot a line they are currently breaking two LM1000's.

kidneb

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2012, 09:23:00 AM »


Also pay attention to the fact that Moto Guzzi now prescribes schnoor washers and Loctite instead of the 4 lock plates.




« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 04:03:27 AM by kidneb »

lemans1000

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2012, 09:58:44 AM »
I think that I will use lock plates and Loctite...

Online mtiberio

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2012, 05:41:34 PM »
what is that bike? It is not a LM IV. Looks like a square fin motor in a T-3 frame. Most certainly not a lemans 3 or lemans 4 frame...

lemans1000

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2012, 12:53:07 AM »
And how did you come to that conclusion?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 12:55:49 AM by lemans1000 »

Online mtiberio

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2012, 08:58:24 AM »
Lemans IV had upswept frame rails behind the shocks, and an extended steering head, and an extra hunk of half tubing extending up from the backbone to the top of said longer steering head. Both the Lemans III  and Lemans IV used the back bone as a breather box. I see none of the associated plumbing. Also the Lemans IV used a small horizontal foot master cylinder. That bike has the larger bottle that was last seen on the Lemans III...

Online mtiberio

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2012, 09:02:56 AM »
Not saying it is not a neat bike. Looks like someone grafted a Lemans IV type front end on it, and a LM IV chin fairing. That is a early Tonti tank (like T or convert) that had been hammered in (I like it). The swingarm looks like a short swingarm, not long like the Lemans III or IV. I do think it is a T-3 that had a motor and front end graft. That would explain the worn out rear drive splines...

Tell me what size rear tire and wheel width does it have? Give a picture of the rear brake assy. Is the swingarm notched so the tire clears it???

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2012, 09:40:37 AM »
Agreed, it's not a LeMans 3 or 4. Didn't want to say anything, but now that it's out in the open..
It doesn't really matter.  ;D It will be a kool scooter when you're done with it. ;-T
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

st2lemans

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Re: MG Le Mans IV - Reconstruction
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2012, 09:55:18 AM »
I'm currently rebuilding my LMIV/sidecar, after having the frame repaired (second one I've cracked, ended up repairing frame #1 as it was in better shape than frame #2), and can definitely say that the frame, wiring harness, and rear brake master are not from a LMIV (I have two, an '85 and an '86).

However, it looks like a nice bike!

Tom
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 09:58:05 AM by st2lemans »

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