Author Topic: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)  (Read 41528 times)

Online Kev m

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So,

I'm finally getting around to performing the break-in service on the Stone.

Went for a chilly spin yesterday, then came home and drained fluids.

This morning I snuck out to the shop for a little while to finish that portion of the service and install my Ed Milich Sump Spacer!

First thing I noticed was DANG that's a tiny little sump - really glad I got the spacer (despite the fact that it really didn't burn any oil during break-in).

SUMP SPACER INSTALLATION

Applied a coat of anti-seize to the new gaskets (as directed by Ed) and went to install sump/spacer.

One word of warning to anyone doing this, make sure you gently start all the bolts before tightening any of them. I originally started by threading and snugging the corner bolts to hang the spacer/sump assembly tight against the block, but after I got all but 2 bolts started (both on the middle of the same side) it felt like the bolts were binding. So I had to unthread the other 10 bolts and play with the sump/spacer alignment in order to safely thread all the bolts.

In the end it worked better for the sump to be hanging at the tips of the threads of the corner bolts in order to allow me to safely thread those last two. Once everything was started, I held the sump/spacer tight against the block, ran the bolts up snug and torqued em down.

SMALL BLOCK OIL CHANGE

I'm really looking forward to future oil changes on this thing (as oppossed to dropping the sump on my old Jackal). Should be a breeze.

The two drain plugs are kinda funny, but it looks like it is best to actually pull them both to make sure you get as much out of there as possible. At least that's what it looked like from the inside. The front plug can't drain the sump fully, and the rear plug would actually leave some dirty oil in some galleys/passageways that the front plug drains. Guess that's why they did it.



Some totally NEWBIE questions for you smallblock guys regarding the oil filter.

1. How often do you guys replace that O-ring? (It looks like I should keep a spare on hand, but it probably lasts many changes - yes?)

2. Is that a crush washer on the oil filter bolt? (I didn't get any crush washers that match that size in the supplies I picked up for this service so I reused it this time, but do you guys usually replace that?)


Next it's on to cylinder head retorquing and valve clearance adjustment.

HEAD BOLTS


Head bolts - I've got notes that say 32 ft. lbs. for the 4 large fasteners and 22 ft. lbs. for the small center nut.

EDIT - Guzziology (my copy is 2007 and may be a bit long in the tooth now - says 29-30 ft. lbs for the 4 10mm nuts and 20-21 ft. lbs. for the 8mm nut).

I can't confirm these with either the V7 Stone/Special/Racer or the previous V7 Classic manuals as no torque values are given for those fasteners in either. It's a one shot thing so I assume most of you guys won't remember, but if anyone has an additional reasource (oh, I'll check Guzziology when I'm done here).


VALVE CLEARANCE

As for Valve Clerance - I assume there are timing marks under that rubber cover at the top front right side of the transmission housing and a crankshaft nut I can access under the plastic front cover that I can use to slowly turn the crankshaft while aligning marks and watching the valves?

Gonna set em to 006" and 008" as it lists in the manuals - unless you guys know better?  EDIT - Guzziology seems to agree with these settings


CLUTCH ADJUSTMENT

It's been my experience (on a number of dealer demos) that the Clutch is often set-up from the factory (or ham-fisted prep techs) with too much freeplay. This puts the friction zone right near the grips and can prevent you from fully disengaging the clutch when you pull in on the lever - which in turn can lead to a bike that is tough to get into neutral or even shift in/out of First at a stop.

I can't seem to find any factory specs for free-play - not in any of the manuals (owners or service) or Guzziology. I've heard numbers like 3mm and 5mm of play at the lever batted around. Any thoughts on this? I'm likely going to try and move my friction zone out a little bit (mine was set-up pretty well, certainly not as bad as the 2 different demos, from 2 different dealers, that I had to pull over during the demo ride and adjust it from the saddle). But I'd still like a tiny bit less freeplay than what they set-up. I guess I'll use 5mm as a target unless I hear otherwise.




Appreciate any input before I screw something up.

Kev

« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 12:03:55 PM by Kev m »
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Sump Spacer/Head Bolts/Valve Clearance)
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2013, 12:02:56 PM »
OK, I added some additional topics to this thread. Both asking questions and giving my own feedback. Perhaps we can make it a resource for others who are about to perform their first services on new V7s...

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Offline Cam3512

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2013, 02:39:44 PM »
Kev,

No experience with the SB, but there was no need to retourqe head bolts on my '09 Vintage due to different head gaskets used.  Does your Stone call for a retorque in the manual?

Cam
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2013, 02:57:02 PM »
So,

I'm finally getting around to performing the break-in service on the Stone.

Went for a chilly spin yesterday, then came home and drained fluids.

This morning I snuck out to the shop for a little while to finish that portion of the service and install my Ed Milich Sump Spacer!

First thing I noticed was DANG that's a tiny little sump - really glad I got the spacer (despite the fact that it really didn't burn any oil during break-in).

SUMP SPACER INSTALLATION

Applied a coat of anti-seize to the new gaskets (as directed by Ed) and went to install sump/spacer.

One word of warning to anyone doing this, make sure you gently start all the bolts before tightening any of them. I originally started by threading and snugging the corner bolts to hang the spacer/sump assembly tight against the block, but after I got all but 2 bolts started (both on the middle of the same side) it felt like the bolts were binding. So I had to unthread the other 10 bolts and play with the sump/spacer alignment in order to safely thread all the bolts.

In the end it worked better for the sump to be hanging at the tips of the threads of the corner bolts in order to allow me to safely thread those last two. Once everything was started, I held the sump/spacer tight against the block, ran the bolts up snug and torqued em down.

SMALL BLOCK OIL CHANGE

I'm really looking forward to future oil changes on this thing (as oppossed to dropping the sump on my old Jackal). Should be a breeze.

The two drain plugs are kinda funny, but it looks like it is best to actually pull them both to make sure you get as much out of there as possible. At least that's what it looked like from the inside. The front plug can't drain the sump fully, and the rear plug would actually leave some dirty oil in some galleys/passageways that the front plug drains. Guess that's why they did it.



Some totally NEWBIE questions for you smallblock guys regarding the oil filter.

1. How often do you guys replace that O-ring? (It looks like I should keep a spare on hand, but it probably lasts many changes - yes?)I keep a couple on hand. When its torn or distorted i'll replace

2. Is that a crush washer on the oil filter bolt? (I didn't get any crush washers that match that size in the supplies I picked up for this service so I reused it this time, but do you guys usually replace that?) Yes, I believe the same crush washer as the rear drive and transmission ventfont]


Next it's on to cylinder head retorquing and valve clearance adjustment.

HEAD BOLTS


Head bolts - I've got notes that say 32 ft. lbs. for the 4 large fasteners and 22 ft. lbs. for the small center nut.

EDIT - Guzziology (my copy is 2007 and may be a bit long in the tooth now - says 29-30 ft. lbs for the 4 10mm nuts and 20-21 ft. lbs. for the 8mm nut). I went with 30 ft. lbs & 21 ft. lbs

I can't confirm these with either the V7 Stone/Special/Racer or the previous V7 Classic manuals as no torque values are given for those fasteners in either. It's a one shot thing so I assume most of you guys won't remember, but if anyone has an additional reasource (oh, I'll check Guzziology when I'm done here).


VALVE CLEARANCE

As for Valve Clerance - I assume there are timing marks under that rubber cover at the top front right side of the transmission housing and a crankshaft nut I can access under the plastic front cover that I can use to slowly turn the crankshaft while aligning marks and watching the valves? If you are talking about the rubber plug on the right side about 4 inches forward ot the transmission fill plug, there is nothing there. Pull the spark plug and insert a clean drinking straw into the plug opening. With the front cover removed use the proper socket on the end of the crank and rotate until TDC is found on the compression stroke. You will be on the compression stroke when the piston is TDC both exhaust and intake valves will have a small amount of movement.  

Gonna set em to 006" and 008" as it lists in the manuals - unless you guys know better?  EDIT - Guzziology seems to agree with these settings ;-T or .010 & .015 using metric values


CLUTCH ADJUSTMENT

It's been my experience (on a number of dealer demos) that the Clutch is often set-up from the factory (or ham-fisted prep techs) with too much freeplay. This puts the friction zone right near the grips and can prevent you from fully disengaging the clutch when you pull in on the lever - which in turn can lead to a bike that is tough to get into neutral or even shift in/out of First at a stop.

I can't seem to find any factory specs for free-play - not in any of the manuals (owners or service) or Guzziology. I've heard numbers like 3mm and 5mm of play at the lever batted around. Any thoughts on this? I'm likely going to try and move my friction zone out a little bit (mine was set-up pretty well, certainly not as bad as the 2 different demos, from 2 different dealers, that I had to pull over during the demo ride and adjust it from the saddle). But I'd still like a tiny bit less freeplay than what they set-up. I guess I'll use 5mm as a target unless I hear otherwise. I have about 1/8" of freeplay. I have found the cable operated clutch engauges much sooner than all my hydraulic clutches




Appreciate any input before I screw something up.

Kev




As far as crush washers and o-rings. When I order filters or parts from MG Cycles I always order extra tidbits to have on hand. I keep a three ring binder with clear plactic sleeves labeled with extra gaskets, o-rings, crush washers etc. It keeps everythign together and the gaskets don't. get bent up.

I suggest a sump gasket, two valve cover gaskets, two filter o-rings, 3 or 4 oil drain bolt(s) crush washers, a couple crush washers for the drive/transmission vent or if you get in a bind and need one of these gaskets while serviceing your bike I can have it in Harrisburg for you or Jay to pick up the next day.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 03:00:38 PM by Perazzimx14 »

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 03:17:40 PM »
good thread, I will be using for my 1st service if the snow ever melts.
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Online Kev m

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 03:28:44 PM »
Cam - yes, both the V7C and V7 Stone/Special/Racer service manuals and owners manuals call for the retorque. Both Pete and Steve perform this at break-in for smallblocks they service. And Pete says it was emphasized in a TSB and in service training in recent years. All despite how rare such things are for other models, brands, or types of motors these days.

Perazz -thanks. I just got a package of supplies, including 2 sets of valve cover gaskets, three oil filters, air filter, second sump gasket (spacer came with one), and 3 sets of crush washers. But it looks like the oil filter o-ring and crush washers were overlooked. I'll get them next order and reused them this time.





« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 03:44:45 PM by Kev m »
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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 08:31:48 PM »
Be careful how tight you take the filter bolt.  My recollection is that you take it to a tight snug.  It seems there is a gap beneath the washer that when over tightened will detent the washer into a cavity and it will leak and need replacing.  I simply found a snug fit to be best.  If it leaks a little tighten it further until it stops, but error on the too loose side.  I always error on the side of too loose with these bolts and watch for slight drips off the heads.  I snug up a bit more if I do see oil.  No stripped threads this way. Don't think we've ever needed to replace the O-ring.  8 years and running.  
Turn the nut up front for valve clearances.  Easy bike to work on for sure.  Yours is even easier with the airbox where it is.
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2013, 08:52:02 PM »
I wrote some guides for servicing the V7 series.

For head torque:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/sets/72157627672086548/

For transmission oil change:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/sets/72157626993357143/

For spline lubrication:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/sets/72157625569987011/

For brake fluid change:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/sets/72157625625067451/


Next is brake pad change, but every time I get ready to make the guide the Ms. finds "something important" for me to do. 
As if anything could be more important than brakes.

I also recommend the Files and Links page of the Yahoo group  http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/MG_750/ , which is full of Guzzi 750 repair articles.
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Offline jas67

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2013, 09:18:10 PM »
The two drain plugs are kinda funny, but it looks like it is best to actually pull them both to make sure you get as much out of there as possible.

Uh...... is the two drain plugs thing new with the new engine, or does mine have them too?    I didn't know there were two, and only removed one.    :-[
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2013, 09:33:23 PM »
Uh...... is the two drain plugs thing new with the new engine, or does mine have them too?    I didn't know there were two, and only removed one.    :-[

All smallblocks have two. One at the front, one at the back. Front is I think 19 mm rear is 17. You need to remove both to completely drain the sump.

Do NOT over tighten the oil filter plate bolt. The cover is simply an aluminium plate and is unsupported in the middle. If you just keep on cranking it down it will crack and you will need to buy a new one.

Pete

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 12:28:06 AM »
As long as you realise that I'm a heretic and not going to Guzzi heaven I'll continue.  :BEER:

Crush washers. Yes they are. Get new ones, re-anneal or if I'm feeling particularly lazy I stick some Loctite 518 on each side and just re-use. I have a centre stand so the bike leans forward. I only ever drain with the large 22mm AF plug at the front. I simply can't be bothered with the thimble of oil I'd get from the rear.

Sump spacer. I'll never bother with one. Yes I know, my 32 year old Monza is probably about to have a catastrophic failure any decade now and it will be all my fault.  :BEER: If you do a quick measure you will find the height of the oil above the pick up is about the same as a big Tonti with a spacer and much higher than any of the round fins. Look up and you will see that the block casting has a web that minimises windage too.
add the litre of oil in the gearbox and you have 3L, the same as in a Yammie 1100.

I cannot fathom why you would want to use a gasket and grease both joins. I would simply glue the spacer to the sump with some form of RTV goop whilst it is on the bench. I'd use the bolts for alignment and whilst it is there, in full view, I'd ensure all the excess is removed and galleries clear. From that time on the sump/spacer would be one piece.  ;-T I'd then only need one gasket and grease one face. I'd even RTV the top gasket to the top of the spacer so it wouldn't slide around too. One join, one parting face, less effort. This is what I have done to my LM III that comes with a spacer. now it is just one piece and filter replacement is easier.

Valve clearances. The metric of 6 and 8 thou" is 0.15mm and 0.20mm not what was given above. The tighter tolerances were originally recommended by Guzzi but after a series of valve failures they were increased to what you set and what I've provided.

Filter o-ring. I've got a spare but never needed it. I just do the plate up by feel. I always oil the o-ring before re-assembly.

Re-torquing heads. Yes, yes, yes. I've got an old manual around here somewhere that lists this in periodic maintenenace. Every 20,000km from memory after initial run in. Funnily it isn't included in all the other manuals I have.  ::)  I can't remember the Kgm but it is in the manual somewhere.

Timing. For all your static and TDC timing needs just assume 4 degrees per tooth on the flywheel. That is one up and one down makes 4 degrees. Once you find TDC then static advance is easy.

Clutch. Yes you need a little slack. Forget the mm's. If the gears are hard to change on the move or  it doesn't like going into neutral when stationary tighten the cable a tad. Keep doing that until it does.

Cheers

Rod
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 12:41:00 AM by Morizzi »

Online Kev m

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 08:12:16 AM »
Some tips I got emailed from GuzziSteve late last night - I'd like to add to the thread for those who use this as a reference in the future:

Emphasis mine:

Quote
Head  bolts should be backed off 1/8-1/4 turn before re-torque, and I go to 33ftlbs on the 4 big ones and 23ftlbs.  When you back them off you may hear them pop a bit, that is normal. I have seen them leak at 30-32ftlbs.

I just like things tight, and it's not too tight. On the BB motors I go 35, been doing that since the New World motor came out in 93. I know the newest SB like yours has a bead on both sides of the head gasket made of silicone. You may want to set the wrench at 25ftlbs first and so around in a criss cross pattern first before the final torque

Oil filter cover oring clean up and I use Dow Corning Molykote #55 O-Ring grease and put it back on cover facing the same way you took it off, cause one side will have a flat and one side will have an angle on it. You won't need a new one for 25Kmi.

The crush washer on the main bolt through the cover will mash up if you torque it to 18ftlbs, I go 11 or 12ftlbs and haven't had one leak. If you look at the crush washer it is still flat from factory, they don't tighten them tight either. The older SB's had thicker crush washers to take 25nm, not now days

For the record, mine was a bit "mashed up" from the factory, but I reused it, as that's all I had. Will check this morning if it is still sealed. Worse case scenario, I'll get my hands on a replacement and swap them out with a second set of hands so someone can play little dutch boy and put their finger over the hole while the bolt is out.  :D

THANKS Steve - also Thanks Pete, Kevd, Sign, and Morizzi for your contributions.

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 08:25:33 AM »
Because I can't leave things alone

Crush washers. Yes they are. Get new ones, re-anneal or if I'm feeling particularly lazy I stick some Loctite 518 on each side and just re-use. I have a centre stand so the bike leans forward. I only ever drain with the large 22mm AF plug at the front. I simply can't be bothered with the thimble of oil I'd get from the rear.

Sump spacer. I'll never bother with one. Yes I know, my 32 year old Monza is probably about to have a catastrophic failure any decade now and it will be all my fault.  :BEER: If you do a quick measure you will find the height of the oil above the pick up is about the same as a big Tonti with a spacer and much higher than any of the round fins. Look up and you will see that the block casting has a web that minimises windage too.

I cannot fathom why you would want to use a gasket and grease both joins.

Valve clearances. The metric of 6 and 8 thou" is 0.15mm and 0.20mm not what was given above.

Re-torquing heads. Yes, yes, yes. I've got an old manual around here somewhere that lists this in periodic maintenenace. Every 20,000km from memory after initial run in. Funnily it isn't included in all the other manuals I have.  ::)  I can't remember the Kgm but it is in the manual somewhere.

Drain plugs - I only used the front plug this time, because I was dropping the sump. But it was quite obvious to me once I dropped the sump that there was well more than a thimble's worth of oil. Yes, it was only a fraction of a liter, but definitely a good couple of ounces. I think I'll use both drain plugs from now own.

Spacer - the extra capacity gives me the warm and fuzzies. That said, my experience with a big block Cali suggests we're talking apples and oranges here. I mean the big block sump is dramatically larger (longer/wider - meaning greater surface area) in the first place. So even if the "height of the oil above the pick up" is the same, the area/volume of oil above the pick up is not. No?

Gaskets - I coat both sides of gaskets when I want NEITHER side to stick (should I ever need to take it apart again, I'm happy to know that I shouldn't have to scrape either side). Related story, the ONLY time I ever let someone else touch my B11 it was FBF (they were chasing down the pinging problem and wanted to reset the valves). Well, I should have known. They installed new valve cover gaskets, DRY ON BOTH SIDES, and they stuck HORRIBLY to the cylinder heads and came apart in little pieces. Took a good hour or more to scrape up the little bits (and keep them out of the motor). So I probably would have coated both sides, of both sump gaskets, EVEN IF ED MILICH HADN'T SPECIFICALLY DIRECTED IT IN HIS INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS. That said, I do often only coat the head side of Valve Cover gaskets, purposely so that they stick to/come off with the valve cover.

Valve Clearance -  ??? What am I missing - who said something other than 6 and 8 thou" ?

Head Retorque - You RE-REtorque every 20km? Really? Is there anyone else who does that? For all the V7 materials I've looked at nothing says to do anytime again after the break-in service.


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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 10:33:52 AM »
One re-torque after new and you're good for many thousands of miles.  Just like the BB.  Somebody is getting a little over touchy feely with their SB.  

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 12:03:00 PM »
It's my understanding that big blocks haven't needed any retorque of the heads (at any time, break-in or otherwise) in many years (decade or more).

That is much like the vast majority of motors out there these days, from bikes to cars, trucks, outboards etc. There may be an exception, like the SB, but still.
 
I certainly am skeptical that it would even need it again after break-in, but I'm willing to listen if there's a reason.


« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 12:38:13 PM by Kev m »
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2013, 12:55:36 PM »
So Break-In Service is almost done.

Got the heads retorqued and the valves adjusted.

TIPS for Head Retorque or Valve Adjustment

A month or two ago I remember Steve noting that he'd unbolted and tilted the tank on a new V7 "for more access" and didn't realize until today why that was the case.

Seems that there are two oil mist/breather hoses running from the airbox to the top, center, backside of each valve cover. There isn't a whole lot of clearance between the spring-clamps used to retain those hoses on the valve cover fittings and the tank. YOU CAN get a pair of needle-nose pliers or hemostats in there, BUT if when pulling the hose/valve cover free of each other you slip at all you'll wish you'd tilted the tank (as I wish now that I have a small chip out of my white paint - luckily it has already been touched up by Jenn - thanks Luv - and is pretty much hidden by the valve cover when the tank and cover are installed).

Edit - upon closer examination I find that I did not chip my paint, it was rubbed off by the right side spark plug wire. Loos like I'll have to figure out a way to hold it down, away from the tank there. I can see white rub marks on the wire. Still a good idea to tilt tank to be safe though.

SO TIP #1 - unbolt rear of tank, and lift up carefully, propping it up with a wooden 2x4 block or the like. The additional room will make it easier to access that hose and hopefully prevent you from chipping your paint.

Tip #2 - the breather hoses may run over a small bracket hanging from the frame in the center of the cylinder valley. If so, reach in and free the hose from the bracket to give yourself a little more play. In this way you can move the whole cover (hose still attached) away from the tank and cylinder body for better access to that hose.

Tip #3 - turns out there are 6 valve covers bolts - the 4 obvious ones, and two in bores at the center (under that spark plug cover). The 2 in the bores are really going to need a hex key that is a couple of inches long. A key or t-handle may do it if you've got enough leverage on it, but I'm probably going to pick up a long hex bit socket for future service. I believe the size is 5mm.

Tip #4 - the 4 exposed valve cover bolts have some sealing washers (that look like copper). I'm not sure if they are crush washers, but I've reused them. They don't sit snug on the bolt shafts, so you may wish to use a dab of engine oil (or grease) to hold them in position on the valve cover when threading the bolts. Otherwise they'll fall off-center and hang from the bolt shaft (which might not be helpful when it comes to providing any seal.

I'm happy to say the smallblock adjusters have slots to receive a screwdriver. That's much nicer than the bigblock adjusters which have tabs that must be held awkwardly by pliers or using a special valve adjustment tool.

I was quite suprised to see my vavles had tightene up QUITE A BIT. I couldn't even pass an 0.005" feeler gauge between any of the rockers and valve stems.

I didn't find ANY timing marks on the flywheel - but I treble-checked that I had TDC each time (by watching both piston height using a chop stick, and the valve action - waiting for the piston to come up to TDC compression right after the intake valve closed). So I made made my own marks both on the front of the crankshaft/engine casing, and on the flywheel. Should make for an easier time next adjustment.

Speaking of the front engine cover - HOLY CRAP those bolts were Loctited in place something feirce. And, here's a really odd thing, ONE of them is bent - leaving for the local hardware store to see if I can find a replacement. I guess the threadlocker was so that the bolts could be only lightly tightened against the plastic covers without fear of them loosening. I had fear that I was going to back out aluminum threads from the block they were so tight.

Pete had previously told me that the head bolts always seemed tighter to him from the factory than when he reset them, but I would swear that was not the case with this motor (assuming my Snap-On low-range Ft. Lbs. torque wrench is anywhere near proper calibration). They definitely felt tighter to me when I retorqued them than when I loosened them.

Oh, my clutch had maybe a little more freeplay than that magic 5mm number (wherever it comes from). Maybe it had 7mm or so at the lever. I took a little out as I wanted to move the friction zone slightly. It's set at about 5mm now, maybe maybe maybe 4mm. I'll check it on the test ride.

Now I just have to finish buttoning her back up and check all the accessible fasteners.

Life is good.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 09:06:22 AM by Kev m »
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Offline Pfaff!

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2013, 03:12:32 PM »




Some totally NEWBIE questions for you smallblock guys regarding the oil filter.

1. How often do you guys replace that O-ring? (It looks like I should keep a spare on hand, but it probably lasts many changes - yes?)

2. Is that a crush washer on the oil filter bolt? (I didn't get any crush washers that match that size in the supplies I picked up for this service so I reused it this time, but do you guys usually replace that?)




1. Never did. Seems still fine after 10 yrs... What's a drop or two of oil between Rossinante & me? :D

2. No. The filter gaskets keep it tight.
Anders Holt

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2013, 07:31:29 AM »
Thanks Pfaff.

So I finished up everything (but the transmission and rear drive oil changes, I'll take care of them as soon as I can get my hands on some 85W90 and 85W140 respectively).

I reset the maintenance light and took her for a test run.

I really think that the first couple of hundred miles made a huge difference in the way this bike felt (something to think about if someone is riding a demo). The motor feels much more willing to rev. Highway at 70-80 mph is no big deal (it felt hurried the first few times I tried those speeds). Now obviously I'm open to the fact that maybe what really changed was me (my perceptions as I got more comfortable with the nature of the bike), but I honestly think that it just plain loosened up and smoothed out a bit.

I'm very happy with this bike, in many ways moreso than I ever was with the Jackal or Breva.

Oh, hopefully Pete won't mind, but since I'm trying to make this thread a one-stop shop for new owners - here's the Maintenance Light Reset procedure he sent me sometime ago - it WORKED light a charm:

Quote
New dash is the same as the old one. When you gate the 'Maint' alert when you turn the key on all you have to,do from memory is turn the ignition off, wait for a few seconds and then press the left hand button and hold it down. Now turn the ignition back on and wait for the clocks to go through their dance and the word 'Maint' will appear briefly and then disappear.

Release the button, turn the ignition off and then on again and the 'Maint' warning should of disappeared. Sometimes, for no reason I can make out, you need to have the side stand up for it to work. Don't ask me? I only work here!

Though I'll add I THINK I forgot to put the side stand up and it worked anyway - go figure.

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Offline Mgv7rider

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2013, 08:12:08 AM »

I'm trying to make this thread a one-stop shop for new owners - here's the Maintenance Light Reset procedure he sent me sometime ago - it WORKED light a charm:

Though I'll add I THINK I forgot to put the side stand up and it worked anyway - go figure.


Kev,

Thanks a million for all the info and trying to help out the newbies (like myself....still waiting for the good weather so I can pick up my v7 stone in mid April)...although I am not "seasoned" to do a lot of the work that you are doing, I am learning and slowly will probably start to do some minor maintenance.

Also, a big shout out to all of the others helping out in this thread, and on the entire Forum for that matter! I am really confident that should I have any questions about my bike, I will be able to find the answer here!

Happy & Safe Riding to all...Cheers

Chris
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Past rides:
2004 Yamaha YZF 600R (sold)
1996 Yamaha vStar 650 (sold)

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2013, 08:54:23 AM »
No doubt the engine will run better once well broken in......talking with one of the guys at AF1 that had just returned from 1400 school in Cal. "Don't care what anybody say's there is a different map that kicks in after x amount of breakin miles". I know that my Norge woke up after about 1,500 miles,not that it matters except that either way they do run sweeter with miles. Just thought it was an interesting statement which is possible with the eclectronic controls now on bikes. Anyone else heard this?

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2013, 09:23:02 AM »
No doubt the engine will run better once well broken in......talking with one of the guys at AF1 that had just returned from 1400 school in Cal. "Don't care what anybody say's there is a different map that kicks in after x amount of breakin miles". I know that my Norge woke up after about 1,500 miles,not that it matters except that either way they do run sweeter with miles. Just thought it was an interesting statement which is possible with the eclectronic controls now on bikes. Anyone else heard this?

IF that was true, I would think that the Ducati Diag/Guzzidiag guys would have found it in the mapping tables.

Of course it is possible, but I SUSPECT the truth is that is a result of:

a. Perception - like I said earlier, WE get used to the bike and think about it differently as the miles go up. We feel more things we didn't notice earlier because our senses were overwhelmed with the next experience of it.

b. Service - Resetting of electronic parameters (with a Norge, resetting the TPS and possibly balancing the throttle bodies) and resetting the valves etc. I mean, the valves on my V7 were hella tight, setting them back to spec ought to make some difference in how she is running.

c. Break-In - actual mechanical wear/loosening up.

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2013, 09:50:50 AM »
Also check you clear air box drain hose. If it has oil in it either the motor had to much oil in it and the extra pumped out. Or one of the vent hose from the heads is pinched. On my bike after every decent ride the drain hose would have a couple ounces of oil in it. When looking around I four a vent hose pinched. Gave it better placement and for the last couple thousand miles no oil in the air box/drain.

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2013, 10:36:05 AM »
Also check you clear air box drain hose. If it has oil in it either the motor had to much oil in it and the extra pumped out. Or one of the vent hose from the heads is pinched. On my bike after every decent ride the drain hose would have a couple ounces of oil in it. When looking around I four a vent hose pinched. Gave it better placement and for the last couple thousand miles no oil in the air box/drain.

Good tip - considering how very little (if any) oil was used during my break-in, I don't expect to find much. But I'll check.

First I have to FIND IT...

Here's an image I put together from a new V7(Stone/Special/Racer) parts manual.

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2013, 02:42:08 PM »
Had a little black Stone in for its first service yesterday. Sticking the new map in it made a appreciable difference to not only its starting but its smoothness as well.

Really like the wheels!

Pete

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2013, 02:44:38 PM »
Had a little black Stone in for its first service yesterday. Sticking the new map in it made a appreciable difference to not only its starting but its smoothness as well.

Really like the wheels!

Pete

CRAP - am I going to have to go searching for a dealer to install a new map now...  ::)  (meh, I'm pretty happy with how smooth it's running, and it starts right up, I'm not gonna worry about it).
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Tip #3 - turns out there are 6 valve covers bolts - the 4 obvious ones, and two in bores at the center (under that spark plug cover). The 2 in the bores are really going to need a hex key that is a couple of inches long. A key or t-handle may do it if you've got enough leverage on it, but I'm probably going to pick up a long hex bit socket for future service. I believe the size is 5mm.


For those looking for a decent quality/but inexpensive long bit driver socket for the above tip - I went with Lowe's Kobalt sku # 86032 - Only $7.00 free in store pickup or just bring the Sku # to the store and have them order it. The whole bar code was 99198 86032 if they have any problems.

That sku # brings it up on their website here:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_338169-25428-86032_0__?Ntt=86032&UserSearch=86032&productId=3387552&rpp=32

The problem with their website (and they're a bunch of morons because I documented this for them and they obviously have not fixed it weeks later) is that when there are individual bits (and sometimes sockets) they don't list what the actual business end of the bit or socket is size wise (they list things like what size ratchet it fits like 1/4" or 3/8" or 1/2" but not what size bolt). How can you buy an individual socket or bit driver not knowing what size it works on?  ??? Some of the complete sets don't list what sockets or bits come in the sets, hell they don't always even specify if they are even SAE or Metric sets.

After I contacted their website people with links and reports of the problems they contacted a local store and had the store guy call the manufacturer to find out the sku number and order the right one for me.  ::)  So hopefully I've saved the next guy the hassle.

As Cheap-Bastardo Guzzisti official recommendation, if $7 is still too rich for your blood, you can always just cut the right angle off a long 5mm hex key, then use the long part inserted into a 5mm socket for essentially the same result.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 08:41:15 AM by Kev m »
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Offline kevdog3019

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I have a Kobalt that my buddy gave me as a X-mas present that is a screwdriver/ratchet set.  Set it to loosen or tighten and simply turn the handle like a screwdriver and no matter which way you twist the handle it unscrews or screws the socket/screwdriver head.  Slick and fast. A quick back and forth and your bolts are out before you know it.  Some funny gearing in there.  I have a bigger and smaller handle that came with mine.  No leverage for real tightening, so break the seal or torque up with a real ratchet.
-Kevin
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Offline CND

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BTW I was at the dealer last Saturday and they had two brand new V7 Stone's (white & black) waiting for prep. The black one had a set of Metzeler's and it appeared to have Olle' shocks. I couldn't quite tell on the shocks because it was backed up against a wall. The white Stone had the Pirelli's and Sachs.
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Quote
and resetting the valves etc. I mean, the valves on my V7 were hella tight, setting them back to spec ought to make some difference in how she is running.

Do you suppose it's telling you to torque the heads?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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Do you suppose it's telling you to torque the heads?

You talking to me?

Cause if so you must have missed a couple of parts of Post #15 (easily done as my posts probably tend to ramble on too long and bore too many - I wouldn't blame you in the slightest). I copied the relevant parts of post #15 for you to be sure:

So Break-In Service is almost done.

Got the heads retorqued and the valves adjusted.

TIPS for Head Retorque or Valve Adjustment

<snip>

Pete had previously told me that the head bolts always seemed tighter to him from the factory than when he reset them, but I would swear that was not the case with this motor (assuming my Snap-On low-range Ft. Lbs. torque wrench is anywhere near proper calibration). They definitely felt tighter to me when I retorqued them than when I loosened them.

Though, I appreciate the concern!  ;-T  ;-T  ;-T
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