Author Topic: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .  (Read 3578 times)

Online Zoom Zoom

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Having read through numerous threads over time, and the recent thread that has been locked that tied in with the departure of the OP, I figured some things for consideration might be in order.

First, this group has a varied amount of knowledge regarding mechanical aptitude, and we should all be considerate of that. There are new folks joining the board that ask questions sometimes that have been asked ad nauseam.

We ought to attempt to be tolerant of that. I would also add that the new folks here, as well as some that have been here longer, are not aware of the knowledge that several here possess. Charlie, Pete, Beetle, Wayne and a few others come to mind but you get the idea. Sadly, some people don't want to hear the advise given them by others. (Perhaps if they don't want to hear it, they shouldn't have asked in the first place, but...) And yes, I know how frustrating that can be for those of us that have learned things the hard way.

Now to the people asking the question:
There are some basics that might prove helpful. First, if you have, (and this goes back to the recent locked thread), additional things added, such as things that trick the ECU, it is good practice to eliminate these devices from the mix if there is even a chance it could be related to the issue at hand. Just because it has worked flawlessly for X number of years does not mean it has not become faulty. How do I know that? Because I learned it the hard way. My experience was with a PC3 on my old EV. This was before Guzzi Diag and the ability to modify the map in the on board ECU. With the advent of GD, why piggy back another ECU on the bike at all? Seems kind of counter intuitive to me. In my case, I was 5.5 hours from home and I simply unplugged the PC3 and reconnected the two ends together to resolve my issue. Electronics can and do fail so we cannot discount them from the possible cause.

Next, if you messed with something and shortly there after you have trouble, consider looking at what changed. Even though you may not have done something directly related to the trouble, you may have accidentally loosened a  wire or hose that may be causing you grief. In other words, what changed?

Third: If you are a newbie, don't be afraid to say so, along with your mechanical ability. "I'm new to the board and I only have some basic skills, etc." (You get the idea.) You will get better responses by doing so. At some point or another, we have all been there, and we are all points in between.

In case the OP to the locked thread is reading this, you mentioned health issues in your now defunct adios post. I'm sorry to hear that and I have no idea what you're going through, but I would GUESS that perhaps riding the bike gives you a bit of solace when things around you seem desperate. I will say that many here have gone through personal tragedy, many of which we will never know. Others choose to bring it out. That is, of course, a personal thing.

What saddens me though is that people get mad over something that was said and simply leave the board. Worst of it is that usually when that happens, it is someone that seems to be a really decent person. (I can only think of one or two that I was not sorry to see leave.)

Now I realize this is a pretty broad brush and I mean no offense to anyone, but there have been a few people that have left recently that I wish had not.

Well, carry on everyone. :boozing:

John Henry
     
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 08:48:50 PM by oldbike54 »
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and the flying motor singing.
Samuel C. Lancaster 1921

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2018, 08:41:00 AM »
Good post, ZZ  :thumb:
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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2018, 08:49:50 AM »

      Well done ZoomZoom, One detail I would add is utilizing the search function on this forum, there are a bazillion posts on everything fom steel cut oats to saddlebag lock tension and I have found many a relevant topic there. Many of us have had "that" problem and there's probably a helpful hint or two on any subject! My $.02

        Paul B :boozing:
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Online Zoom Zoom

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2018, 09:09:44 AM »
I have to agree Paul. But I would also add that search does not always yield the desired result. When we had the old search, I think it did a better job of finding things than the current google search method. But it is what it is.

ZZ
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and the flying motor singing.
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Offline SmithSwede

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2018, 10:20:59 AM »
Well said.
Accentuate the positive;
Eliminate the negative;
Latch on to the affirmative;
Don't mess with Mister In-Between.

Offline sdcr

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 11:01:15 AM »
Makes sense.

As someone who recently made a dumb, brain freeze,post, about the float bowl pin, I can relate.   
John

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Offline twowings

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 11:26:20 AM »
Well said, Zoom!

Now, you need to come to the Kansas rally so we can discuss this further... :thumb:
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Offline wirespokes

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2018, 11:32:52 AM »
Thanks ZZ. Good post - as others have already said. I've been around Guzzis for a couple years now which makes me still a newbie, but with good mechanical abilities. Good point about including that data in my posts. Thanks for being understanding and putting up with us newbies.

I've been an airhead nut for almost 30 years and like you say, certain questions surface over and over again. I've thought it would be a good idea having a stickie with all the FAQs or links to the threads answering those Qs. Not sure how it could be done, but it certainly could make life easier.

Offline Texas Turnip

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2018, 04:04:25 PM »
Very good ZZ. Wish I would have stayed in school.

Tex

Offline Unkept

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 04:10:36 PM »
Nice post. :) I think it deserves to be stickied.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 04:11:10 PM by Unkept »
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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 08:14:59 PM »
 Great post John  :bow:

 Let me add , before anyone gets worked up and decides to quit , contact me personally . We can usually work things out , a couple of members here can attest to that .

 Carry on , and please take what John says to heart , this is a great board , let's endeavor to keep it that way .

 Thanks

 Dusty
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Hope for an answer someday

Offline beetle

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 11:07:39 PM »
It's my fault for the recent departure and subsequent locked thread.

The OP took exception to my post on the downside of the Power Commander. It was not my intent to upset anyone. I have been told my posts can come across as "gleefully brusque". In my attempts to educate and help folks here on WG and other forums, I've been called an egotistical troll, a "garage mechanic" who thinks I know more than the factory, that my mapping methodology is "brutal", producing white plugs and nightmares for the user. I've even had threats of violence made against me.

It was also pointed out to me that it's not being egotistical if I'm actually right. Now, some of you will reckon that's an egotistical statement. Well, let me be gleefully brusque. You're wrong.

Some of you take exception to the fact that a guy on the edge of the Australian outback knows more about fuel injection than some of the self proclaimed "guru's" on the internet. Well, get over it. I'm a very smart cookie that works with mult-million dollar medical imaging equipment for my day job. I love my Griso and Guzzi's. I was ripped off by one of these self proclaimed guru's, who turned my Griso into a poor running munter, so I decided I could do a better job myself. So, I got right amongst it. I studied & experimented. I disassembled ECU's and their software. I learnt what all the maps and lookup tables in the ECU'S do. How the sensors are read and how the ECU reacts. I don't need to be partnered with a mult-million dollar company to know these things, or to have raced motorcycles, or to have been building them for decades. Well, I have been riding for more than 30 years, and I have built several bikes. They were Suzuki's though. Now you know my dark secret.


So, from now on I will try to be less gleefully brusque. I will still call a spade, a spade, and I will likely piss some of you off. I will help if I can.

Thank you for reading.



If the river was whiskey, I was a diving duck...

Offline Guzzi Gal

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2018, 11:44:10 PM »
beetle,

I'm good with that. :grin:
:bow: Thanks for enabling my MG obsession! :bow:

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Offline Pizza Guzzi

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2018, 12:03:05 AM »
ZZ and beetle, well said sirs  :thumb:

Online Tom H

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2018, 12:37:43 AM »
With the above said, thanks ZZ and Beetle.

I would like to add that the search function over the last few years did work, but at time I could not even search for a post that I made and know what the title was. I have not tried lately, do hope it's better!

Again, as far as newbies, we all were at one time. Pre-internet and bodging along as best as we could with no help locally for a marque that has a dealer every thousand miles :wink: now with a click and the right description of the problem, the newbie has a good answer or at last a place to start, then add info to help solve the problem.

Heck I have had my Eldo for over thirty years. But when I got my EV that turned out to be all jacked up in the ECU, I was lost. I came here and learned to work with the new system and solve the problem! Thanks again to all that helped!! I was sent a few maps and a bone stock one and they helped me solve the problem!

Well anyway, thanks again to all that help people out here!!

Also, I still enjoy a good oil thread! :evil: ducking and running very quickly! :wink:

Tom
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Online Huzo

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting:
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2018, 01:05:36 AM »
Well said, Zoom!

Now, you need to come to the Kansas rally so we can discuss this further... :thumb:
Or the Restaurant with the free pizzas on the shore of Lake Como near Agostini's in Mandello, in 2021.
There'll be a fireworks show...!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 01:06:38 AM by Huzo »

Offline Paul Brooking

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2018, 03:21:01 AM »
beetle,

I'm good with that. :grin:
Well said


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Offline Lannis

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2018, 06:49:37 AM »
It's my fault for the recent departure and subsequent locked thread.

The OP took exception to my post on the downside of the Power Commander. It was not my intent to upset anyone. I have been told my posts can come across as "gleefully brusque". ....

That's all OK, but I'll just note one little thing .... Dish it out if you will, but you've got to be able to "take it" too, if that's the way it's going to be.    Can't be "gleefully brusque" on one end and melt down on the other if someone responds in the same fashion.   

That said, all of the Down Under expertise on this list is highly appreciated ....

Lannis
As I was watching the dog chase his tail last night, I thought "Dogs are easily amused ..."

Then I realized I was watching the dog chase his tail.

Offline beetle

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2018, 07:02:50 AM »
I'm still here, aren't I? Take note.






If the river was whiskey, I was a diving duck...

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2018, 07:20:55 AM »
If WG is just a troubleshooting forum it doesn't exist.  And that would be patently unfair to the few uncompensated experts that we have around here anyway.  WG is entertainment and part of that entertainment includes reading and reacting to posts from an entire range of characters.  Someone posting "use Google first" in a "what oil" thread is a distraction from reality and therefore entertaining if you really think about it :)

All posts from Lannis are distracting and therefore entertaining.  Pete and Mark's troubleshooting wisdom easily takes second place to whatever you call their down under language and humor.  John Henry is worse in person than he is online.  Not liking me is I'm sure entertaining.

Can we all just get along?  No way!  That's why I've been entertained by this site for 12 years!
George Westbury
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Online Zoom Zoom

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2018, 07:52:21 AM »
Beetle, it was never my intent to assign blame for anything. Some of the responses were pulled and I didn't see them. Also, as I'm sure you noticed, you were named as a person held in high regard by myself and many others. I simply figured there might be a little food for thought on both sides of the coin, that's all.

George: What????  :huh: <scratching head>

John Henry

edit: I might add that the original title to my post was augmented with the culture mention. Although I have no problem with that, I suppose it could alter the perception of those reading the thread.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 08:03:50 AM by Zoom Zoom »
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and the flying motor singing.
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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2018, 08:12:54 AM »
It's my fault for the recent departure and subsequent locked thread.

The OP took exception to my post on the downside of the Power Commander. It was not my intent to upset anyone. I have been told my posts can come across as "gleefully brusque". In my attempts to educate and help folks here on WG and other forums, I've been called an egotistical troll, a "garage mechanic" who thinks I know more than the factory, that my mapping methodology is "brutal", producing white plugs and nightmares for the user. I've even had threats of violence made against me.

It was also pointed out to me that it's not being egotistical if I'm actually right. Now, some of you will reckon that's an egotistical statement. Well, let me be gleefully brusque. You're wrong.

Some of you take exception to the fact that a guy on the edge of the Australian outback knows more about fuel injection than some of the self proclaimed "guru's" on the internet. Well, get over it. I'm a very smart cookie that works with mult-million dollar medical imaging equipment for my day job. I love my Griso and Guzzi's. I was ripped off by one of these self proclaimed guru's, who turned my Griso into a poor running munter, so I decided I could do a better job myself. So, I got right amongst it. I studied & experimented. I disassembled ECU's and their software. I learnt what all the maps and lookup tables in the ECU'S do. How the sensors are read and how the ECU reacts. I don't need to be partnered with a mult-million dollar company to know these things, or to have raced motorcycles, or to have been building them for decades. Well, I have been riding for more than 30 years, and I have built several bikes. They were Suzuki's though. Now you know my dark secret.


So, from now on I will try to be less gleefully brusque. I will still call a spade, a spade, and I will likely piss some of you off. I will help if I can.

Thank you for reading.

Do we need an 'Aussie-free' section in this forum for easily offended members?  :grin:
Mike

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Offline pete roper

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2018, 08:15:57 AM »
Maybe. But then you would never get to understand the splendour of goat leggings......

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2018, 08:39:21 AM »
Maybe. But then you would never get to understand the splendour of goat leggings......

Exactly!
George Westbury
Aiken, SC
2003 EVT "The Tank"
2011 Griso SE

L-824 and L-825

Offline Lannis

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2018, 09:49:52 AM »
I'm still here, aren't I? Take note.

Wasn't really thinking about you in particular when I wrote it .....  :blank:  :evil:  :bow:  :rolleyes:  :wink:
As I was watching the dog chase his tail last night, I thought "Dogs are easily amused ..."

Then I realized I was watching the dog chase his tail.

Offline Lannis

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2018, 09:53:24 AM »

All posts from Lannis are distracting and therefore entertaining. 


Get on wi' some work, you.   The bit of the Social Security fund that pays my check isn't going to reload itself, you know ....  :laugh:

Lannis
As I was watching the dog chase his tail last night, I thought "Dogs are easily amused ..."

Then I realized I was watching the dog chase his tail.

Offline Markcarovilli

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2018, 12:13:38 PM »
so just reading this thread at work (you're welcome Lannis for keeping your SS coming) and am really entertained....

hope no one picks up and leaves because I am not sure I would like what is left.

Mark

Offline Guzzi Gal

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2018, 01:13:46 PM »
Even the pissing contests are entertaining 'round here! :popcorn:

I do try to suss out answers to whatever odd questions I come up with before posting them.  That said, sometimes I haven't a clue what to search for, be that proper wording or WTF the issue might be in the first place.  I love it when someone politely posts a link to a similar or same question that was posted before.  That can help quite a bit in narrowing down the search for the answer.  As I've stated many a time, I'm truly clueless (ignorant of all things mechanical and electrical) but not an idiot (usually). :tongue:   

Many are in the same boat, to varying degrees, so if the urge to be gruff is strong, just remember you were clueless at some point too. :bow: 

 
:bow: Thanks for enabling my MG obsession! :bow:

"Anni" Moto Guzzi V7 III Anniversario,
"Velvet" Honda CTX 700,
"Brigitte", AKA "Gigi"  Vespa GTS 300ie,
"Greywind" Vespa GTS 300 Super,  
The twin Honda Metropolitans
"Miri" and Mori"

Offline Ncdan

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2018, 01:53:18 PM »
I’m been helped so much by some of the guys mentioned here in this post I wouldn’t know where to start saying thank you. Beetle stuck by me for months, responding back EVERY TIME, I gave him an update on my CALVINS Preformance until it was absolutely  perfect! Some of the guys here has sent me personal responses, to my off the wall questions, to protect me from brutal responses that my, less than intelligent, questions may  have generated. I woukd also like to thank KEV and Beetle here for their patience and tireless efforts to answer my questions and educate me on some issues which are complicated for some of us older guys who are familiar with setting points with a match pack cover;)
I love my WG forum. Keep the stupid questions coming guys as I learn something from every last one of them. 👍👍👍👍👍

Offline bigbikerrick

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Re: A few thoughts on troubleshooting: Or , some notes on WG culture .
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2018, 01:55:45 PM »
Even the pissing contests are entertaining 'round here!  :popcorn:

Very well said, Guzzi Gal from the valley of the sun!  :thumb:
Rick.
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