Author Topic: Need a source for brake disc spacer  (Read 945 times)

Offline JayDee24ca

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Need a source for brake disc spacer
« on: November 24, 2018, 06:16:06 PM »
I'd like to move the right front disc on my Convert out by about 1 to 1.5 mm on the wheel flange, in order to center the caliper properly over the disc. HMB in Germany has a couple of different thickness steel spacers that are exactly what I am looking for, but the shipping is a killer, like around 70EUR. Does anyone know of a north american supplier for these things? I suspect that these might be a one-off HMB item, but I thought I would check the collective first. Failing a NA supplier, I will simply use 6 individual shims, one on each bolt.
Thanks
John D
'74 Eldorado
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Offline Roebling3

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2018, 07:48:45 PM »
Search for McMaster=-Carr. Huge outfit with more stuff than most anybody.
I can't access my data base or search from here.  You can even talk with people there!
BTW: btdt, which you're doing.  R3~ 


Offline rodekyll

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2018, 08:04:58 PM »

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2018, 08:10:03 PM »
Search for McMaster=-Carr. Huge outfit with more stuff than most anybody.
I can't access my data base or search from here.  You can even talk with people there!
BTW: btdt, which you're doing.  R3~

I don't think McMaster-Carr will carry this:



With the correct thickness of steel sheet, it wouldn't be too difficult to make one.
Charlie
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Offline Ncdan

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2018, 08:40:30 PM »
Shouldn't most any machine shop be able to fabricated one at the desired thickness?

Offline JayDee24ca

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2018, 08:58:27 PM »
I'm pretty sure a machine shops costs would exceed the cost from HMB and its associated shipping. As to McMaster Carr, I shop there regularly, and I see they have individual washer style shims of the correct thicknesses, and I may wind up ordering them. I was just hoping that one of the usual suspects in the US might have the 6-hole shim that HMB carries.
Charlie, i suppose I could make my own one piece shim a la HMB, but I am no metal worker, and I know the bodged looking thing i would wind up with. Do  you suppose there is really any advantage to using the one piece 6 hole version over individual shims?
JD
 
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Offline Matt Story

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2018, 09:40:49 PM »
The part can be made on almost any CNC waterjet, laser or plasma cutter and produce a part very quickly.  As is often the case, it would take longer to set up than to make the part.  Cheapest way is to bring a piece of material and the setup file to a properly outfitted and willing shop.  A more sure way would be provide a digital model to a company such as https://www.emachineshop.com/cnc-waterjet-cutting/.  They claim to have many materials in stock and have no minimum order.

I could provide a model in several of the most common file types and you would be all set.  It's really only a few minutes of work on the CAD side.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 09:42:29 PM by Matt Story »
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Offline n3303j

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2018, 02:40:53 PM »
All far too complicated. Drill press, belt sander, dremel tool and about 45 minutes with the proper thickness material and you should have a serviceable part. Made many a shim that way. Start with the bolt holes first
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Offline JayDee24ca

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2018, 02:59:38 PM »
That's more my style, if I were to stick with the single shim. I've made lots of gaskets etc, and a few thin shims. But in this case I think it would be simpler to order the individual shims from M. Carr. After pondering it overnight, I just don't see any advantage, excpt for ease of application, to the use of the single six-hole shim.
Matt, thanks for your offer of providing a digital file, that stuff is way beyond me. (That's why I stick to carbs, not FI!)
JD
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Offline Matt Story

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2018, 03:12:54 PM »
I can also see it that way.  6 washers of the same thickness should work fine.  It's all about what you want
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Offline Idontwantapickle

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2018, 03:53:51 PM »
I can also see it that way.  6 washers of the same thickness should work fine.  It's all about what you want

Just a thought on this. Using washer type shims will greatly reduce the clamping area that transfers the load at that point. This could lead to a shear load imposed onto the mounting bolts and that is a failure waiting to happen.
Best not to be too frugal on the brake parts. Check with a machine shop, it may be less than you think.
Just me 0.02

Hunter
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Online SeanF

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2018, 04:00:44 PM »
You could also space the caliper, using fewer washer-style shims.

I have a bunch of 10MM ID, 16mm OD, .1mm and .5mm thick stainless shims, and I'd be happy to drop some in the mail to you. (McMaster part numbers 98055A121 and 98055A117.)

I used them to center the front caliper when I added a Unit leading link front end to my 850-T for sidecar duty. Minimum order was 50 shims, and I used way less than that.

PM me if interested.

Cheers,
Sean

Offline Matt Story

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2018, 05:32:29 PM »
For an exercise, I just scaled an extra 850-T rotor to define the shim dimensions and submitted it to the above linked company for a quote.  I came up with 80.5mm ID, 125mm OD, (6) evenly spaced 8.25mm holes on a 102mm dia bolt circle.  I requested that it be made from 16Ga 304 Stainless sheet.  I expect they will get back within 24hrs.
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Offline acogoff

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2018, 06:14:32 PM »
     They originally came from the factory with shims at the caliper to achieve what you seek. May be a much simpler and inexpensive approach. MG cycle has them on hand in .5M and .8M thickness.
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2018, 06:44:21 PM »
The Guzzi method is to shim the calipers.  There used to be part #s for the different thicknesses.  They are unchamfored washers.  You are supposed to slide the calipers over the rotors, align to the fork lugs, and squeeze/hold the lever.  Find the washer that best fits the gap between the mounting lugs and use it.  I keep used banjo washers in my stash to give me odd sized shim stock.

Offline JayDee24ca

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2018, 08:54:30 PM »
For an exercise, I just scaled an extra 850-T rotor to define the shim dimensions and submitted it to the above linked company for a quote.  I came up with 80.5mm ID, 125mm OD, (6) evenly spaced 8.25mm holes on a 102mm dia bolt circle.  I requested that it be made from 16Ga 304 Stainless sheet.  I expect they will get back within 24hrs.

I look forward to hearing what they say!
JD
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Offline JayDee24ca

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2018, 09:16:35 PM »
     They originally came from the factory with shims at the caliper to achieve what you seek. May be a much simpler and inexpensive approach. MG cycle has them on hand in .5M and .8M thickness.

Shimming the caliper will move it in the opposite direction to which I need to move it. The disc needs to move OUTWARD, or the caliper INWARD. Shimming the caliper at its two mounts on the fork leg will only result in the caliper moving OUTWARD.
JD
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Offline acogoff

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2018, 09:16:58 AM »
     This seems a rather odd situation. Are you sure your front axle is not binding up somehow and not letting the wheel assembly move all the way to the right. Either that or you have a non standard spacer tube (too long) between the bearing and the right fork leg. If that is not the case, I would loosen the pinch bolts on the lower forks and give the axle a good whack to the right just to make sure it is bottomed out to the right before you proceed buying custom parts. Good luck to you.
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2018, 09:45:08 AM »
     This seems a rather odd situation. Are you sure your front axle is not binding up somehow and not letting the wheel assembly move all the way to the right. Either that or you have a non standard spacer tube (too long) between the bearing and the right fork leg. If that is not the case, I would loosen the pinch bolts on the lower forks and give the axle a good whack to the right just to make sure it is bottomed out to the right before you proceed buying custom parts. Good luck to you.

I agree. Something is definitely amiss.
Charlie
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2018, 10:01:16 AM »
+2
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Offline Rough Edge racing

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2018, 11:16:14 AM »
 Yup...first of all, check to see the center of the wheel/tire is directly under the center of the steering stem...All other measurements must be based off this...
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Offline JayDee24ca

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2018, 12:25:56 PM »
I had a brake disc that was seating at a slight angle on the wheel hub, for one reason or another, which resulted in a pulsing brake. Run out was 0.030. The wheel is a cast mag that the PO had powder coated.  In order to seat the disc correctly, I removed material from the hub in the area of the through-bolts. Run out was reduced to 0.002.  Keep in mind that material was not removed in one fell swoop, but rather was removed judiciously, a few strokes with a file at a time, followed by light sanding. This is likely why the brake disc is off center by a couple of millimeters maximum.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, I will check that the wheel itself is centered under the stem, having never done so previously.
JD
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Offline Matt Story

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2018, 06:11:40 PM »
Emachineshop.com responded today.  A bit pricey at $76 for a single piece.  I'm sure if you needed 5 or 10+ the per piece would become acceptable.

To round out the exercise, here is the body of their response email:

Quote
Hi Matt,

Regarding your quotation request #

We are pleased to provide the following quotation:

File: MotoGuzziBrakeRotor Shim.SLDPRT
Quantity: 1
Material: Stainless 304 Annealed, 0.0625 inch thick
Thickness: 0.059" +/- 10%
Finish: Brush flat surface
General Tolerance: +/- 0.010"
Turnaround Time: 7 business days (excluding transit time)
Default tolerances and finishes: https://www.emachineshop.com/specs/

Total job price including UPS Ground shipping: $76.27

To proceed with this order, please go to:


Or go to www.eMachineShop.co m and select menu Order | Per Quotation.

Quotes are valid for 30 days.

Note: Estimated delivery times are based on current workloads and may vary at the time of ordering.

This quotation is subject to the Terms of Use and Order Policies shown on our website.

Thank you for your interest in eMachineShop. If you need any additional information or have any questions, please feel free to contact us.

Order Processing
eMachineShop
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 08:37:59 PM by Matt Story »
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Offline gearman

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2018, 06:52:38 PM »
I clicked on your quote and ordered six for you. .                              joking of course. I have had many converts and never had to shim the ROTOR. i have shimmed the caliper though. Easy

Offline Matt Story

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2018, 08:38:42 PM »
I clicked on your quote and ordered six for you. .                              joking of course. I have had many converts and never had to shim the ROTOR. i have shimmed the caliper though. Easy

Thanks, I fixed it
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Offline JayDee24ca

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2018, 09:13:59 PM »
I checked the "centeredness"of the wheel and all is good. I should have known that already, as the left front caliper is dead center on the left front disc. To me this means that the variation on the right side is fully due to my removing material on the hub earlier this year in order to reduce disc run out. I am sure that while a shim or two may not be a preferred item, it should remedy the offset.
As an aside, the brakes functioned well, its just that I could see that the outside puck was not in firm contact with the disc; being a Convert, with little to no engine braking available, I want as much wheel braking as I can get. (Keep in mind that I am used to Eldorado brakes, with its stellar braking)
JD
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Offline JayDee24ca

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2019, 06:15:45 PM »
Just to wrap up this old thread, Les P in NZ machined a single 6 bolt spacer for my Convert a couple of months ago, and shipped it to me N/C here in Canada. Until today I was unable to see whether the installed shim did the trick or not, it being winter here. Today, despite 2 feet of snow, the roads were clear and the temperatures above freezing, so I took the bike for a root, and laid hard on the front brake. Thanks Less for generously building and supplying the shim, it works just great! Both pucks in the front caliper now close evenly on the disc.
Oh yeah, in Dec or so I did try to make a donation to WG in Les's name, but that didn't work so the donation went in in my name instead.
Thanks again
John D
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Online Huzo

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2019, 07:02:32 PM »
Just a thought on this. Using washer type shims will greatly reduce the clamping area that transfers the load at that point. This could lead to a shear load imposed onto the mounting bolts and that is a failure waiting to happen.
Best not to be too frugal on the brake parts. Check with a machine shop, it may be less than you think.
Just me 0.02

Hunter
Damn right..

Online Huzo

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2019, 07:11:32 PM »
I took the bike for a root, and laid hard on the front brake.
Did you make coffee for two afterwards..???!  :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
PS..
(I hope you stayed on top..!)

Offline mtiberio

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Re: Need a source for brake disc spacer
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2019, 09:19:13 AM »
Could easily be the issue here is a bearing isn't bottomed, or the wrong bearing carrier/rotor carrier is on the wrong side. For guzzis, the bearing with the circlip should be on the side with the axle spacer and axle nut. That way, the bearing, spacer, rotor are all fixed and in a repeatable position. The other side with the fat shoulder of the axle is supposed to float the slider to allow for no binding. This is why you should tighten the axle nut, pump the forks and then tighten the pinchbolt on the opposite side.

Don't get me started on the proper way to tighten up the rear axle nut, rear drive to swingarm nuts and rear pinchbolt to prevent binding of the axle.

I was always amazed when at the track or watching others do maintenance and seeing them "hammer in" axles. My axles go in with a finger push and come out with a finger push. No reason why this isn't achievable on any bike without bent parts.

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