Author Topic: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service  (Read 1069 times)

Offline benebob

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Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« on: December 13, 2018, 09:54:19 AM »
I will be picking up my first Guzzi, a 16 V7 ABS tomorrow.  It has about 200 miles on it but is still titled as new.  I expect to hit the 600 mile mark by Sunday as I have to go out to one of our properties on Sunday (about a 350 mile trip).  My closest dealer isn't exactly close being about an hour and 15 away so I hope to pick up everything I need to do the 600 mile service (assuming that is still the first service as I did find a service manual online for an earlier v7 racer) tomorrow when I get the bike. 

Best I can tell I will need the following
2 valve covers gaskets
3 crush washers
10w60 Oil (2 quarts)-  Do I want synth or conventional or isn't there a choice at the dealer?
Rear dif Gear Oil (At least a liter)- What weight and spec?
Transmission Oil-  Is it the same capacity for the 6 speed as the 5 speed and is it really just like .2 quarts what weight and spec.?
Oil Filter and oring

Please chime in if I need something else or different quanities so I can get the service done when I get home on sunday minus the valve check.  Also, is the factory service manual available cheap as a pdf, if so anybody have a good place to get it.  I've gotten burned before on service manuals not being fsms but rather just generic crap. Also, the v7 racer fsm seems quite confusing.  It has a pic of the rear dif for the "transmission"  That should be pretty explanitory on how to replace but how does one check and replace the actual tranny oil.  I come from bikes that share the tranny and engine oil.   Thanks a bunch! Excited I finally pulled the trigger. 


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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2018, 10:11:04 AM »
copper washers are needed
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Online Guzzistajohn

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2018, 10:15:17 AM »
Welcome aboard!

Can't offer much help on a new unit but there are plenty here who can.

Enjoy your new bike!  :thumb:

John in Missouri
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Online Perazzimx14

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2018, 10:22:07 AM »
1st service is an oil/filer change, valve lash check and a general check of the other fluid levels, fastener tightening and cable adjustments. Its really not a big deal and if you really concentrated and were familiar with the bike its about an hours worth of work. Budget and afternoon just to do things low and slow and get to know the bike.

I'd buy or order 2 or 3 oil filters just have on hand and save on shipping and forgetting to order for the next oil change

5 liter jug of 10w-60 oil synthetic. Nice to have extra in case you need to top it up. I prefer LiquiMoly as it is available at NAPA and is a good oil to boot. 

2 quarts of Redline heavy shockproof for the transmission and rear drive. Not needed at the 1st service but it wouldn't hurt either if you changed now.

As you also discussed don't forget a couple thick green garlock type valve cover gaskets and crush washers.

Couple of 6 packs of beer and some steaks for the grill.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 10:25:17 AM by Perazzimx14 »

Offline Tom H

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2018, 10:54:07 AM »

Best I can tell I will need the following
 
Rear dif Gear Oil (At least a liter)- What weight and spec?
Transmission Oil-  Is it the same capacity for the 6 speed as the 5 speed and is it really just like .2 quarts what weight and spec.?

You might want to check the quantity for the "transmission" and the "rear drive". I think the books call the rear drive the transmission. Shops can screw this up if they go by the book. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the about a liter should go in the part connected to the engine that you change gears with and the about .2 should go in the rear drive, the part that connects to the rear wheel.

Enjoy the new bike!
Tom
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Offline BrotherJim

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2018, 11:37:30 AM »
The "transmission" reference can be a bit confusing on the Guzzi.  "Transmission" refers to the final drive at the rear wheel, and "gearbox" refers to the gear-change thingy.   :grin: 
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Offline JACoH

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 11:51:24 AM »
You can download the service manual from AF1 Racing for under $10.

Online Beowulf

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2018, 01:20:04 PM »
Congratulations. :gotpics:?
The rear diff takes this
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=56487&sku=AGGEAR85140&description=AGIP+Gear+Oil+Gear+Synth+85W%2D140+++1+Liter
Works great.
Redline shockproof is great.
Ive run both.
Long as the clutch is adjusted they both work.
On ebay
Staccatto cycles sells the 10w60 eni.
Great stuff.
Mg cycles has a kit  with filter and o rings
Crush washers.
Type them in on Google.  Best price i found.
Imo for what its worth stay away from copper washers and change all the oil. Trans, rear diff.
Sounds like you got a handle on it.
You can email me i have a basic manual from guzzi that will help. It's ok not great but it helps.
Pm if your interested.
75-90 for the transmission. Run synthetic whatever you get.
Idk if you mentioned it but you may want to retorque the heads to prevent future head gasket leaks.

I love my v7 ii. Been a great bike.
26000 +.no where near a lot a guys on here but mine has been really trouble free.

Guzzitech has nice valve cover adapters that double as engine guards on closeout if your interested. They allow you to run the older valve covers. Im vain and they look cool.

Hope that helps

Online Beowulf

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2018, 01:25:45 PM »
P.S

The trans takes about half a liter of 75-90.
The rear just get a friend to hold the bike level
Or use a bike stand
Real easy go by fill plug.

Don't overfill the engine.  It probably take 1.5 to 1.75 liters.otherwise it will end in the air filter. Don't ask me how i know.
Ymmv


Offline Tom H

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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2018, 02:04:08 PM »
Welcome aboard, it's customary to post a picture of your new Italian Girlfriend.
Enjoy
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Offline benebob

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2018, 02:35:36 PM »
Thanks guys will post a pic of her when I get it.  I'm a Brit boy so I'm worried my italian will get mean and fat after I bring her home but we shall see.  :)  I'm sure she is gonna be shocked tomorrow after spending the better part of 3 years in a nice warm showroom to have to actually work and take me home in a nice winter rain.  Plan is the first time is to get the stuff from the dealer and that will give me plenty of time to come up with what I'd like to go with moving forward.  So I didn't see an answer.  Syth is perfectly fine correct for the engine oil? 


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Offline usedtobefast

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 02:40:57 PM »
For the V7 I and II (I think you got a II), you also need to re-torque the heads right before doing the valve check ... I believe that is part of the first service (if done properly).  But no extra parts needed for that.
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Offline benebob

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2018, 02:42:32 PM »
Yup, she's a vii. 
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Online Kev m

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2018, 04:59:18 AM »
Also I don't think anyone specially said this but the transmission (thing you shift) is different on the II than the I and I believe has a different capacity and no easy way to check level (no level plug). So don't use data from an older manual for a model with the 5-spd.
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Online Bulldog9

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2018, 05:39:08 AM »
I think most of the critical points have been caught in the above posts, but here's what I'd add.

It's a new bike under warranty I think the best practice is to use the recommended fluids not just a good substitute. AF1racing and mg cycle both have complete filter and fluid change kits for the engine transmission and rear differential that make this an easy no-brainer.

For an easy solution on filling the pumpkin or "rear differential" after draining the fluid I removed the vent cap from the top, replaced the drain plug with a new gasket and filled through it until oil began to reach the rear plug.

Everyone has their own techniques but what I do is go for a good long ride get all the fluids hot and drain all the fluids at one time while hot. Then I go find something else to do while all the fluids are draining and the bike has time to cool. I did the head retorque and valve adjustment the next day.

Definitely make sure to retorque the heads before doing your valve adjustment.  You can get valve cover  gaskets if you want, but mine popped off with no issue. There are several threads here and on GT to help, and the service manual is a good download to have.

Most of all take your time.... Have fun....



« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 07:06:09 AM by Bulldog9 »
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Online mechanicsavant

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2018, 07:09:09 AM »
First, congratulations. I've got a 16 stone I bought as a leftover late 17. The owner's manual has fluid capacity s listed in it .what was previously said about oil level is accurate,I set mine at the add mark ,cold & haven't had issues with oil in air filter housing after a few hundred mi. To help seat rings. Also there is a gearbox filter inside the drain plug ! It's like a large thimble once drain plug is out & fluid drained it comes out easily w/ needle nose pliers , a bit of squirt cleaner & it goes right back. One more thing don't judge too harshly Dy the first few thousand Mi. Mine loosened up and ran better as Mi.accumulated . Oh don't forget to have fun!!

Online mechanicsavant

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2018, 07:23:22 AM »
Oops almost forgot , do not! Lug the motor ! I find 3k rpm + is the happy place . Below that especially new it vibrates excessively!

Online jpv7

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2018, 04:04:58 PM »
P.S

The trans takes about half a liter of 75-90.
The rear just get a friend to hold the bike level
Or use a bike stand
Real easy go by fill plug.

Don't overfill the engine.  It probably take 1.5 to 1.75 liters.otherwise it will end in the air filter. Don't ask me how i know.
Ymmv
+1.  I figured out on my V7ii that the trans takes about 450ml (manual says 500ml, but i figure from dry...) or it will puke when run hard.  Engine takes 1.6L or it goes into the airbox with more than that...

Offline benebob

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2018, 08:41:17 PM »
Thanks everyone.  Bike is home, think I got all the bits I could need to do the service. added a hundred miles or so to it today in the rain and plan to do 350 or so on Monday so that 600 miles will be hit quick.  Bike runs pretty decent.  Seems to have a flat spot around 4500 or so but of course it has sat for nearly 3 years so will run the first tank out then add some techron to the next tank and put some miles on it.  It reminds me a whole lot of my old CB175 suspension wise.  I have gotten too soft with my Triumph Tigers with gobs of travel suspension over the past 7 years or so.  The frost heaves hurt now :)  Very happy to have her in the garage. 
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Offline benebob

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2018, 06:16:28 PM »




Okay, here is a pic from the ride home.  Now here should be by last stupid question from a noob for a while.  Can someone point me in the right direction to a video or a step by step proceedure for the the head torquing.  I have been thru the FSM linked  above in the thread for mine as well as a few others to try read about the torque order, if you lossen them and then tighten, if you tighten in stages etc.  I'm quite confused actually by the FSM.  It seems quite lacking in anything regarding disassembling the engine.  Only seems to give you a few "maint things" in the maint section and then under the engine it just says how to remove the engine.  Thanks!
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Online Cam3512

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2018, 06:22:16 PM »
You only need to retorque the heads once - at the first service.  The manual doesnít get into that, or a lot of other stuff.  They believe you should take it to a dealer for anything more than an oil change.

And hereís a thread Kev started here for the break in service on his Ď13 V7 Stone.  Itís a V7I so the tranny and alternator (dry vs wet) will be different than yours.  Good reading.

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=60261.0
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 06:36:40 PM by Cam3512 »
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Online Kev m

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2018, 06:35:25 PM »
Here are notes from one of the best Guzzi mechanics on this site that he gave me about the head retorque before my 13's first service:

Quote

      Head  bolts should be backed off 1/8-1/4 turn before re-torque, and I go to 33ftlbs on the 4 big ones and 23ftlbs.  When you back them off you may hear them pop a bit, that is normal. I have seen them leak at 30-32ftlbs.

Edit- missed Cam's edit lol. No harm.

As for manuals, keep in mind there are multiple manuals, one for chassis, another for motor etc. Sometimes updates in another.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 06:41:10 PM by Kev m »
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Offline benebob

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2018, 07:15:43 PM »
Thanks.  Any specific order for loosening or torquing 'em.  Is there an actual FSM out there rather than a glorified owners manual?  Happy to buy it, and really don't have any issues doing 90 percent of my own work on my Tiger, Jags or TVR but I do like to read up on what I'm doing ahead of time to boost my confidence more than anything. 
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Online pyoungbl

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2018, 07:26:52 PM »
Hey Pete Roper....re torque on the V7 heads.....I thought that Guzzi changed the head gasket for the V7ii so you don't have to re-torque those heads. What is your guidance here?
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Online Kev m

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2018, 07:38:15 PM »
Bene, not sure order matters unless you back them all off at once. Read that thread of mine that Cam posted for more, but I'd crack off and retorque each one at a time, probably loosen the little one first and hold off then tighten it last, do the rest in a crossing pattern.

Actually thinking about it I bet I cracked em all off for that reason first and then tightened them.

On manuals as I said, like a lot of other EU manufacturers they don't write a complete one every year. They write a new one when it is first introduced and updates as things are changed. Even my 13 Stone (first year of the MKI) requires multiple manuals.

PY, the retorque thing ended on the smallblocks with the new Hemi heads (V9 & V7III).
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Online pyoungbl

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2018, 08:43:36 PM »
Oh, I seemed to recall Pete talking about Guzzi changing the head gasket material which eliminated the need to re-torque the heads.  If that change came about at the same time as the hemi heads it's a logical point of departure.

I just looked at the parts list from AF1 and see that the head gasket part number (B063099) is the same until the V7iii when it changed to an entirely different number (1A006543) so it makes sense that the requirement changed then.  Thanks!

Peter Y.
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Offline Green1000S

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2018, 10:17:42 PM »
Youre in Lancaster, PA?

So am I.  :thumb:

Maybe a beer in my garage or yours?

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Offline benebob

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2018, 11:11:43 PM »
Youre in Lancaster, PA?

So am I.  :thumb:

Maybe a beer in my garage or yours?

Lauri

You sold me at beer :) 
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Offline pete roper

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Re: Picking up a NOS 16 V7 tomorrow- questions on the first service
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2018, 04:07:01 AM »
Re torque sequence is very simple and intuitive if you think about it.

Up until the III series they still used the same old collapse-o-matic kingerlite head gaskets. These always need re-torquing. There are five studs. Four are 10mm, one is 8mm. When you are taking pressure off them or putting it on which one is more likely to bend or, given its location, put the most stress on the head casting risking a warpage of the component?

Using common sense you then loosen the smaller 8mm nut first, then the four 10mm fasteners in a crosshatch patern afterwards.

Once loose you retorque them again in a crosshatch pattern. If you want to be anal about it go to 25 ft lbs first on the four big ones and then go the full monty to 33-35. Then at the end twist the 8mm one to 22 ft lbs, it doesn't have to do much, it's really only there to clamp the oil feed gallery. The combustive forces are contained by the four larger fasteners.

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