Tire Question 1400

[lucian]

Hi all, I know, probably the only thing worse than an oil thread, is a tire thread, sorry


 I am considering a 180 series rear tire for a 1400 custom ,instead of the spec 200.  Many more options, and dual compound for higher mileage for a planned summer tour. I've heard it's been done, but jumping two sizes seems iffy to me . Nothing out there in 190/ 16" unfortunately.  Has anyone tried the 180/ 16 on a 6in. rim with success?   many thanks, Dave

[DougG]

Hi Lucian,

I have a '15 Cali 1400 Tour and a '17 Cali 1400 Tour (NOT a custom, so I can't speak to them!)  However, I can say this.  I ordered the '17 with 180 tire size from the dealer and I DO notice a difference in the twisties.  I get more lean and response on the 180's.  First, the tire is slightly narrower, and second, the 180's are slightly taller.  I posted this a while ago and do not remember the exact numbers now, but I do notice a difference in lean.  They are Dunlops, just like the OEM's.  The '17 is in NC and I am in NY now so I can't give you the exact dimensional difference nor the numbers on the tire.  When I wear out the tires on the '15, I will certainly change to 180's.  It suits my type of riding.  I often ride with a BMW riding club in the Blue Ridge Mts. and am never out of the top third in the group.  Say what you want about the Cali, but she gets the job done!

Be well,
DougG

[lucian]

Thank's Doug for the reply,  I appreciate you sharing your first hand knowledge  . Been thru four rear 200 's so far and never got more than 5,000 miles out of any of them. ready to try something different.  Wore most of them out traveling to your neck of the woods, Finger lakes, Lake Placid. Niagara falls,ect.  beautiful places to see! Hoping to make it from Maine to Montana and back on one tire this summer and will order up a 180 Michelin Asap!   Curious also if you had any issues with speedo or TC calibration? Thanks  again , Dave

[Tom]

Some have used car tires with decent results.  I rode a Cal 1400 Touring with one on the back.  I couldn't tell the difference in handling.

[Ncdan]

I’m in the same situation as Dave is. I’m ready for a rear and front on my 2015 tourer however I did get 6000+ miles on my OEM 200. I also want to replace with a 180 however would like to keep the same or near same height as no to disrupt the correct MPH reading. Keep the info coming in please.

[groundhog105]

I have run a 180 65 16 on my 1400 custom with great results.  I put on the Avon cobras and have gotten 10 thousand out of the rear and 18 thousand out of the front. 

[JohninVT]

 I considered going to a 180 but ultimately spooned on a set of Bridgestone Exedras in stock sizes.  Yeah, there are only 5 choices in 200/60r-16 but the Exedra is a tire that’s been around forever and is OEM on certain Goldwings so tire life should be decent.  I wasn’t comfortable stretching a 180 on a 6” wheel. 

The stock rear Dunlop costs $340.  That’s just for the rear tire.  I paid $250 for the set of Exedras so even if I only get 5-6,000 miles I consider them a bargain. 

I opted for the bias ply version reasoning that a 700lb cruiser could use a tire with a stiffer sidewall.  They seem to handle decently and if it ever warms up I think I’ll probably air down the pressure a bit from 38psi front and 40psi rear.  I use the 10% method rather than blindly following whatever the sidewall specs. 

[DougG]

Hi Lucian,

I found the tire info.  Here's the difference in size:  200 R60/16     width - 8.23", dia - 25.39", load - 963# @41 psi
                                                                          180 R70/16     width - 6.92", dia - 26.2",   load - 908# @41psi

As I mentioned, the 180's are slightly narrower (1.31" from a purely physics perspective, this means that there is a smaller tire patch on the road, but correspondingly higher contact pressure on the road.  There should be no difference in traction.)  The 180's are slightly taller (.81 inches, or about 3% taller.  This translates to about a 2 1/2" difference in road distance covered/ wheel rotation.  I imagine that this will translate into a minor difference in speedometer readings.  I use GPS speed, not speedo, although the GPS does not take into account vertical motion (up and down hill). 
The load rating is more than acceptable, remember...this is only one tire, the load is distributed between both front and rear (although not equally).  As far as comfort, I think that is controlled more by tire pressure and shock settings.

I hope this helps. 

Be well,
DougG 

[JohninVT]

Hi Lucian,

I found the tire info.  Here's the difference in size:  200 R60/16     width - 8.23", dia - 25.39", load - 963# @41 psi
                                                                          180 R70/16     width - 6.92", dia - 26.2",   load - 908# @41psi

As I mentioned, the 180's are slightly narrower (1.31" from a purely physics perspective, this means that there is a smaller tire patch on the road, but correspondingly higher contact pressure on the road.  There should be no difference in traction.)  The 180's are slightly taller (.81 inches, or about 3% taller.  This translates to about a 2 1/2" difference in road distance covered/ wheel rotation.  I imagine that this will translate into a minor difference in speedometer readings.  I use GPS speed, not speedo, although the GPS does not take into account vertical motion (up and down hill). 
The load rating is more than acceptable, remember...this is only one tire, the load is distributed between both front and rear (although not equally).  As far as comfort, I think that is controlled more by tire pressure and shock settings.

I hope this helps. 

Be well,
DougG

Except a 180 isn’t taller when you stretch it onto a 6” wheel.  180’s usually go on 5” wheels.

[DougG]

Hi John,

That may be a point worth considering.  I really don't know how much difference that would make.  However, I'm including an address for a website that gives the min, ideal and max tire width for various size wheels.  https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/charts/tire-width-for-a-wheel-rim-size-chart

Believe me, I'm not being argumentative, only informative.  If one goes to the site, it indicates that the min tire width for a 6" wheel is 175.  Ideal is 185-195, so the 180 is above the minimum and below the ideal.  I asked the dealer about this when I ordered the 180 tire.  He said that he fits the 180's on Guzzis routinely upon request and has never had a problem. The 200's that come on OEM are below the max, but above the ideal.  Those are the facts as I know them.  However, I've run the 180 a couple of thousand miles so far and if I ever run encounter a problem I'll certainly inform fellow Gussiests ASAP.   I'm certainly not a tire expert, I only know what works for me.

Be well,
DougG

[JohninVT]

I didn’t mean to be argumentative.  I seriously considered going to a 180 but when I realized the Exedras were so cheap I opted to avoid the slight unease I felt putting a 180 on a 6” rim and went the stock size route.  There are quite a few 1400 riders that have switched so it’s obviously safe. 

[DougG]

Hi John,

We all make the best decision for our specific application.  You obviously made the right one for you.  I totally respect that.
Please report on the Exedras as you use them.  I'm curious about them.  I'm in this for the long run and want to be informed. 

Be well,
DougG

[Ncdan]

Hi John,

We all make the best decision for our specific application.  You obviously made the right one for you.  I totally respect that.
Please report on the Exedras as you use them.  I'm curious about them.  I'm in this for the long run and want to be informed. 

Be well,
DougG

Doug, I’m having a hard time finding a selection of 180/70/16 tires for the 1400. Can you suggest a couple brands that carry that size??

[stephenm]

On my 2013 Touring, I got (3,600 miles) out of the OEM Dunlop D251 rear, and 4,600 miles out of an Exedra. Both tyres handled and gripped fine. I changed to a Dunlop D407 (dual compound) in a 180/65 16. The tyre circumference is very close to stock. The first lasted 9,000 miles. The second is tracking the same way. Most of my riding has been two up. I didn't really notice much difference in the handling with the tyre width change. The last 1000 miles or so on the D407 includes increased resistance to tipping into a turn, as the profile flattens off. The 6" rim pulls the 180 tyre flatter than the 200. I have just returned from 1500 miles solo in the mountains, and a thousand or more corners, and the handling was neutral and easy all the time.

Stephen

[DougG]

Hi Dan,

I simply asked the dealer (MFM) to select the correct tire in the 180 size for my '17 Tour.  They installed Dunlops, 180R70/16.  I know that there are a number of other manufacturers that offer the same size.  Normally (as has been noted by others), 180's are installed on 5"rims.  The '15 and '17 Tour has a 6" rear rim.  If you go to some websites, they indicate that certain 180 tires are not recommended for 6" rims.   Apparently, these Dunlops are fine with the wider rims and MFM has installed them several times.  There are certainly Bridgestone (Exedra), Metzeler, Pirelli ($$), Avon and so forth.  Maybe someone else can chime in on their experience with each.  I only know the tires that I have, Dan.  Sorry that I can't be more helpful with a general recommendation.

Be well,
DougG

[Ncdan]

Hi Dan,

I simply asked the dealer (MFM) to select the correct tire in the 180 size for my '17 Tour.  They installed Dunlops, 180R70/16.  I know that there are a number of other manufacturers that offer the same size.  Normally (as has been noted by others), 180's are installed on 5"rims.  The '15 and '17 Tour has a 6" rear rim.  If you go to some websites, they indicate that certain 180 tires are not recommended for 6" rims.   Apparently, these Dunlops are fine with the wider rims and MFM has installed them several times.  There are certainly Bridgestone (Exedra), Metzeler, Pirelli ($$), Avon and so forth.  Maybe someone else can chime in on their experience with each.  I only know the tires that I have, Dan.  Sorry that I can't be more helpful with a general recommendation.

Be well,
DougG

👍👍👍👍

[Kiwi Dave]

There are certainly Bridgestone (Exedra), Metzeler, Pirelli ($$), Avon and so forth.  Maybe someone else can chime in on their experience with each.

For the rear, I have settled on the Bridgestone BT020.

Front wasn't so easy.  I tried the Michelin Commander II, then a Bridgestone Excedra before going to a Michelin Pilot Road 4 GT 120/70/ZR18 (following another member's recommendation).

I know the Pilot Road 4 is not quite the correct size in width, but it works great.  YMMV.

[Ncdan]

Unless opinions based on facts or experience, I’ve decided which rear tire I’m going to try on my 1400. I’m simply not willing to pay 260.00 bucks for the factory dunlop251 in either the 200 or 180 series. I’m going to go with the Shinko 777 in 180/65/16 for less than 110.00 bucks. There has been quite an extensive debate on this brand in the past and none of the naysayers had ever ran a Shinko, I have, with great results. I’ll post a follow up when I can offer some results.

[DougG]

Hi Dan,

Sounds like a reasonable decision, especially if you've had experience with them.  If I'm not mistaken, I believe they come in standard and heavy duty (HD) configuration.  They advertise the HD version as having a stiffer sidewall, higher load rating and more potential mileage. 

Please let me know how it works out.

Be well,
DougG

[roadventure]

Thanks to all here for your comments regarding fitting a 180 tire instead of the OEM 200 size.  I am on my third rear (OEM Dunlop, Avon, Avon) which have all been the 200 width.  I am going to a 180 next time! ;-)

[Ncdan]

Hi Dan,

Sounds like a reasonable decision, especially if you've had experience with them.  If I'm not mistaken, I believe they come in standard and heavy duty (HD) configuration.  They advertise the HD version as having a stiffer sidewall, higher load rating and more potential mileage. 

Please let me know how it works out.

Be well,
DougG
That’s correct Doug, the HD version is the one I’m going with for 110.00 bucks. I’ll give an update eventually. Thanks for the information you gave on  the subject as well as Dave for starting the original post.

[Ncdan]

I have received my Shinko 777 180/65/17 HD tires and they are definitely heavy duty!  Has anyone who has mounted the 180 series had any difficulty getting them to take air and seat?

[DougG]

Hi Dan,

Did you really mean 180/65/17?  Maybe a finger slip...16??  I'm curious.

Be well,
DougG

[Ncdan]

Hi Dan,

Did you really mean 180/65/17?  Maybe a finger slip...16??  I'm curious.

Be well,
DougG

Sorry, yes 16, thanks for the correction!

[lucian]

I know what you mean Dan about Heavy Duty. I got my Pirelli 180 /65/16 and couldn't imagine I'd ever be able to get that sucker to seat.  Your tip you shared with me was much appreciated!  Here I am a life long carpenter and Dan suggest putting spreader blocks of 2x4  in the tire to expand it before the wrestling match.  Brilliant!!
Thank's buddy

[Ncdan]

I know what you mean Dan about Heavy Duty. I got my Pirelli 180 /65/16 and couldn't imagine I'd ever be able to get that sucker to seat.  Your tip you shared with me was much appreciated!  Here I am a life long carpenter and Dan suggest putting spreader blocks of 2x4  in the tire to expand it before the wrestling match.  Brilliant!!
Thank's buddy

I’ve got 3 in mine now:) the stiffness in the walls of that tire is unbelievable!

[JohninVT]

Bias ply sidewalls are a lot stiffer than radials.  I’m going to dial back my preload one click tomorrow morning before I ride. 

[Ncdan]

Bias ply sidewalls are a lot stiffer than radials.  I’m going to dial back my preload one click tomorrow morning before I ride.

I’ve never fooled with mine. Where do they need to be for a maximum weigh of 200 pounds??