NGC. Whining time....Why are boat outboard motors so expensive???

[s1120]

Im investigating Tohatsu Outboard motors now (Old Nissan).  Tohatsu is the oldest Japanese manufacturer of outboards, so maybe the quality is there.....Seem to be better priced than the Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha Outboards....

they are vary good motors. Their big market is the working boat owners.. guys that are out every day, all year, good or bad weather. They dont always have the fancy stuff some of the names do... they just work.. for a long time.

[bobrebos]

they are vary good motors. Their big market is the working boat owners.. guys that are out every day, all year, good or bad weather. They dont always have the fancy stuff some of the names do... they just work.. for a long time.

Thanks for the info!

[Kev m]

they are vary good motors. Their big market is the working boat owners.. guys that are out every day, all year, good or bad weather. They dont always have the fancy stuff some of the names do... they just work.. for a long time.

Yuppers! 

[Kev m]

Do they use those engines for anything else?  Tractor, side by side, motorcycle?  If not, why not?  They run for hours at constant RPMs, not ideal duty.

I've had three outboards - Sears Gamefisher (Eska) 7.5, Merc 9.9 & Evinrude 15.  The Eska was the only one to crap out.  The other two I bought used and sold for same price.

There are a few design similarities between some outboards and other motors. The Suzuki L4s had some similarities to the Geo Tracker/Suzuki Sidekick motors.

But not much.

And there are a lot of reasons.

* They are built vertically so their driveshafts face down.

* They're built compact to fit in those small shrouds.

* They have wet exhausts which makes for interesting attempts at emissions controls. Very few have O2 sensors and no cat-cons.

* There are still lots of 2-strokes, but they use lots of fancy direct injection systems. 40V ram solenoid injectors or triple stage fuel systems that create over 1000 psi. or dual stage systems with on board compressors that combine fuel with high pressure air before spraying it into the combustion chamber.

And these motors run at constant rpm under high loads instead of varying rpm in the ways vehicles with transmissions and traffic do, which often means differences in tuning, powerband, and design.

[larrys]

Perhaps you get a quantity discount when you buy 4 of them at a time?

Hah! I'll ask the owner when I see him this summer. To the OP, you could go vintage, they're pretty cheap.
This is a '58 Evinrude 50HP. First year for OMC's V-Four. I bought it as a running motor for $250.
Larry



idyll lyrics

[leafman60]

Outboard Motors

I am very partial to the new Evinrude E-TEC motors.  They're 2-strokes but nothing like the 2-smokes of the past.

http://www.motorcycleconsumernews-digitalmagazine.com/mcnews/august_2018d/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1409603&backTo=collectionSearch#articleId1409603

I came to this point after reading an article in a motorcycle magazine, MCN ! (see above)

Last year I bought a 16' console boat new and had to purchase a 50 HP motor for.  I was proceeding to buy a Yamaha as per my past  purchases until I read that article and then began doing more research.  I bought a new 50 E-TEC and I am impressed.

The new Evinrude flat-out kicks the butt of any 4-stroke I've owned.  It almost jumps out of the water when gunned and will hop to plane in an astoundingly short distance. Mid-range is amazing too.  When I first took a test ride in my boat with my Evinrude dealer, he cautioned me to hold on when he gunned it at mid throttle.  I took that warning with a grain of salt but firmly planted my feet on the floor just in case.  He kicked the throttle and it slung me out of the seat!  Damn.

The 50 Evinrude pushed the boat up to almost 44 MPH.  I called the boat manufacturer and he said something had to be wrong. They never get over about 37 out of it with the 4-strokes. 

Anyway, if you are considering a new motor, do some research.  Lots of Youtube vids are out there too showing drag races of the E-TEC with everything else.

The MCN article goes into how little oil and fuel the new E-TEC consumes.  A full (2 qt) oil tank under the cowling is supposed to last a full season of 50-100 hours of running.  Fuel consumption is 10-15 percent less than the 4-strokes.  My first factory-specified service is 3 years out !  That is basically a gearcase oil change.

There are no valves to adjust or worry about, no belts, no oil changes, none of the 4-stroke items that also add weight to the engine.

The torque is amazing.  A comparable 4-stroke motor of my HP uses a prop with about 11 inch diameter and maybe 15 inch pitch (distance moved in 1 revolution).  My E-TEC is spinning a 13.5 inch diameter prop with a 22 inch pitch.

There is no smoke, very quiet running and polluting discharge is at or less than anything out there.

Even these smaller Evinrude motors come with NMEA protocol.  This allows you to connect to a NMEA-compatible GPS/fish/depth finder and have a full readout of gauges on your electronic screen.

Look into it but ....

HOLD ON.

https://www.evinrude.com/en-US

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[Kev m]

Outboard Motors

I am very partial to the new Evinrude E-TEC motors.  They're 2-strokes but nothing like the 2-smokes of the past.

http://www.motorcycleconsumernews-digitalmagazine.com/mcnews/august_2018d/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1409603&backTo=collectionSearch#articleId1409603

I came to this point after reading an article in a motorcycle magazine, MCN ! (see above)

Last year I bought a 16' console boat new and had to purchase a 50 HP motor for.  I was proceeding to buy a Yamaha as per my past  purchases until I read that article and then began doing more research.  I bought a new 50 E-TEC and I am impressed.

The new Evinrude flat-out kicks the butt of any 4-stroke I've owned.  It almost jumps out of the water when gunned and will hop to plane in an astoundingly short distance. Mid-range is amazing too.  When I first took a test ride in my boat with my Evinrude dealer, he cautioned me to hold on when he gunned it at mid throttle.  I took that warning with a grain of salt but firmly planted my feet on the floor just in case.  He kicked the throttle and it slung me out of the seat!  Damn.

The 50 Evinrude pushed the boat up to almost 44 MPH.  I called the boat manufacturer and he said something had to be wrong. They never get over about 37 out of it with the 4-strokes. 

Anyway, if you are considering a new motor, do some research.  Lots of Youtube vids are out there too showing drag races of the E-TEC with everything else.

The MCN article goes into how little oil and fuel the new E-TEC consumes.  A full (2 qt) oil tank under the cowling is supposed to last a full season of 50-100 hours of running.  Fuel consumption is 10-15 percent less than the 4-strokes.  My first factory-specified service is 3 years out !  That is basically a gearcase oil change.

There are no valves to adjust or worry about, no belts, no oil changes, none of the 4-stroke items that also add weight to the engine.

The torque is amazing.  A comparable 4-stroke motor of my HP uses a prop with about 11 inch diameter and maybe 15 inch pitch (distance moved in 1 revolution).  My E-TEC is spinning a 13.5 inch diameter prop with a 22 inch pitch.

There is no smoke and polluting discharge is at or less than anything out there.

HOLD ON.

Spot on post!

I ran an 01 90 hp Evinrude DI (FICHT) motor on our Silverline 1600SS (16' Bay boat) for more than a decade completely trouble free with nothing but spark plug, prop, and impeller changes.

The E-Tecs can even winterize themselves (fog themselves).

Of all the DI Outboards out there I think the electronic ram injection on the Evinrudes was the most simple and robust solution. No need for air-fuel rails or three stages of fuel pumps. They're very good motors!

[fossil]

1) about Tohatsu: A lot of brands use the smaller Tohatsus (up to 15 hp). Mercury / Mariner, even Evinrude, and as I have read, Honda (but the bigger Tohatsus then are made by Honda, and this deal is good for both brands). Some Tohatsus have one design flaw, the thermostat can only be swapped when the cylinder head is removed. Ask your dealer if that is really so! They can be seen in the professional maritime world quite often.

2) about Evinrude: I have been a fan of the ´Rudes for decades now. Since around 2003 (!) they build the E-TECs. It is proven technology. The 25 / 30 hp especially is lighter than its counterparts, it has more displacement plus the additional 2-stroke - grunt. The tiller can be brought into any position, even for left-handed pilots. It should easily be the best engine out there. And even for me as a German it is important: They are all built in the USA.

And yes, the engine is not cheap. But the need for maintenance (especially dealer maintenance in the warranty time) is extremely low.

[leafman60]

Fossil makes a good point. The Evinrudes are USA-made.  Yamaha, Mercury and most others are made in China now except for the very large motors.

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[Siamese]

Marine engines work hard.  Imagine running your Guzzi at 3/4 throttle all day like a boater does.  Top gear would have you going 90+.    Now, imagine running your Guzzi in saltwater.  It's a tough life. 

As long as there are multiple manufactures competing in a free market, competition should keep things in line.  Unless you want to engage in conspiracy theories. 

I have a gripe with the small engines.  My Evinrude Light Twin 3 horse was made in about 1956 (I got it in 1960), and was a smooth running twin cylinder.  Rugged.  I used it until 2013, when I sold it to a relative.  A modern 3 horse is a junky little one cylinder with much more noise and vibration.  When you're holding onto a tiller, you can't get very far from the engine, and the old Evinrude was pleasant to run all afternoon.  The modern 3 horse with all it's noise and vibration is obnoxious and makes you want to toss it overboard.  Last time I looked, you don't get into a twin cylinder until 8 horsepower.   

[Lannis]

My Evinrude Light Twin 3 horse was made in about 1956 (I got it in 1960), and was a smooth running twin cylinder.  Rugged.  I used it until 2013, when I sold it to a relative.  A modern 3 horse is a junky little one cylinder with much more noise and vibration.  When you're holding onto a tiller, you can't get very far from the engine, and the old Evinrude was pleasant to run all afternoon.  The modern 3 horse with all it's noise and vibration is obnoxious and makes you want to toss it overboard. 

I get the impression that small engines are rated differently than they used to be.

Our David Bradley two wheeled garden tractor that my Dad bought in 1951 and we used until 2011 had a "Five Horsepower" Briggs engine.   That engine was huge.   Rope start, big oil bath air filter, and I'd like to measure how tall that thing was and how much it weighed but there was a lot of iron in it.

"Five Horsepower" engines now are nothing like that.   Little light tinny things, and there's NO WAY that one of those engines would pull a turning plow or a heavy cart at the rate that that Briggs would, even though they're "rated" 5 or 6 horsepower.

Since Kevm "writes the books" (or manuals) on such things, maybe he knows for sure, but my impression is that we are measuring something very different, whether it be little outboards or engines for equipment ....

Lannis

[Aaron D.]

Not really-like old tractor/utility engines they were made big, made lots of torque at low rpm. HP ratings for many older engines were taken at 1800, now 3600 tends to be the default.

I've had 2 18 HP tractors, one an 850cc Onan, the other a 450cc Vanguard. Torque curves are really different!

[Lannis]

Not really-like old tractor/utility engines they were made big, made lots of torque at low rpm. HP ratings for many older engines were taken at 1800, now 3600 tends to be the default.

I've had 2 18 HP tractors, one an 850cc Onan, the other a 450cc Vanguard. Torque curves are really different!

I guess the point is that no one today would equip a device meant to pull a plow or push a boat at speed with a "five horsepower" engine.   And that thing would pull, too, jack ..... I'd love to hook it to a modern "18 HP" tractor and have a little tractor pull ...

Lannis

[twowheeladdict]

I was thinking of getting a new 30hp motor for my fishing boat (16'aluminum, small old boat)  Was waningt a white Suzuki like below.  4800$!!!!!  Geezzzzz   


https://www.overtons.com/suzuki-30-hp-outboard-motor-model-df30athlw2-354695.html?CAWELAID=120071730000278113&s_kwcid=msnsearch__&msclkid=947fb707488b1dd533aaebd5a432ff12

What got my goat was when I had a 12 foot row boat and a 13 foot Gheenoe.  Neither needed to be registered, but then I had a 4 hp gas engine that I wanted to use with either boat.  I now had to register each boat even though I only had one motor.  Crazy!  They figure out the best way to get your money. 

[bobrebos]

This Evinrude seems like about 1500 bucks cheaper than the Suzuki...….Hmmmmm

http://outboardmotorssale.com/products/2018-Evinrude-E%252dTEC-30-HP-E30DRSL-Outboard-Motor.html

[Sasquatch Jim]

 It is because they want more money! That is the only reason.for exorbitant prices.
 They know that people consider their luxuries to be more expensive and so they play to that psychology.

[twowheeladdict]

My ultimate nightmare "vacation".   A cruise ship docking at some Caribbean port with 4 others, 12,000 people hitting the resort at one time, then hop back on and go to the next one ....

Lucky for me, Fay has zero interest in cruises, for a good reason.   We went on board the USS North Carolina museum ship, docked in the harbor at Wilmington.   At the time, the ship was "silted in" at the harbor so it was actually sitting on the harbor bottom.   As we walked the deck, with the breeze rustling and little waves and catspaws ruffling the harbor water, she stopped and held on to a rail and said "This ship is moving and I'm getting a little queasy." 

Now if there is any object in the world, along with the Pyramids and Ayer's Rock, that is NOT MOVING, it's that battleship.   But just seeing the motion of the water starting getting her a bit 'off'.   

Maybe a bass boat up on plane would be OK for her, though.

Lannis

I agree.  Went on one 3 day cruise.  By the second day the ship became very small.  I decided cruise ships are for city folk or those who would rather be city folk.  Drinking, gambling, shows, food 24/7.  Overindulgence at its finest. 

[fossil]

This Evinrude seems like about 1500 bucks cheaper than the Suzuki...….Hmmmmm

http://outboardmotorssale.com/products/2018-Evinrude-E%252dTEC-30-HP-E30DRSL-Outboard-Motor.html

But be careful! It seems the offer includes only long shaft engines (20"). Look whether this is correct for your boat! For most small and lightweight boats a shaft lenght of 15" would be correct. A modern Evinrude likes to run mounted very high. The better the propellor (stainles steel...) the higher.

[Penderic]

Add a bit of flight capability and watch the prices reach the sky! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMWh4W1C2PM

  Too loud! You're scaring the fish!

[Penderic]

[bobrebos]

But be careful! It seems the offer includes only long shaft engines (20"). Look whether this is correct for your boat! For most small and lightweight boats a shaft lenght of 15" would be correct. A modern Evinrude likes to run mounted very high. The better the propellor (stainles steel...) the higher.

According to video how to's on line you are to measure the transom height which I did.  My transom height was 20.5 inches which according to the videos translates into my boat needing a 20" shaft length motor.  Hope im getting the correct info. 

[Muzz]

My 14.5 foot fizzboat has a 1985 40hp Johnson on the back.  Someone has fitted it to a electric rise and tilt system from a 130hp Johnson, which makes it a lot more manageable for beach launching and retrieving. It's actually a petroil model which was re-released at the same time as the Ficht oil injection ones came out.

The only problem is, with 3+ adults on board it struggles to get on the plane.  The one I would love to replace it with would be the 50hp E-tech Evinrude. Emissions claimed to be actually lower than a 4 stroke, very economical with gobs of low down torque and all in a lighter weight package than 4 strokes.

I asked the mobile mechanic who I get to service it for me about the E-tech line and he said they seem to be very good indeed; at the time I asked him he had yet to do anything mechanical to one.  These would all be motors run exclusively in salt water.

[Lannis]

The future is here!   I always wondered what it would look like.   

But unstable, expensive, short range, and impractical is NOT what I was hoping for .... 

[wrbix]

Boats and airplanes - by someone’s definition only owned by rich people.....so.....l et’s jack up the prices

[fossil]

Very good information you can get here: https://www.etecownersgroup.com/