Heavy clutch on 2013 V7

[Das]

Brothers and Sisters,  its been quite a while since I last posted on this board even though one of my daily rituals is spending a little time here browsing and often being splendidly entertained.  So, I ride a 2013 V7 Stone, farkled to my fancy.  Up till now things have gone well or even better than well.  My last ride this weekend gone was a two hour plus ride from my rural home to Sydney (Aus) to attend a celebration of custom bike culture, an event known as 'Throttle Roll'.  The issue in question began to raise it's head during the stop start city phase of the journey.  I normally have no trouble selecting neutral on the slow roll towards standstill or, if I miss it, selecting it when stationary.  What showed up however was a pronounced difficulty in hitting neutral, the tendency being a king of clunking into first or, after strong upward pressure on the gear changer, a move straight through to second.  In addition the normally heavy clutch has become markedly more so to the point where it has become a test of strength to activate the clutch lever at the handle bar through its range of travel.

I am hoping the collective wisdom of the this group or even a flash of individual wizardry may be able to shed some light.  Either outcome would earn my eternal gratitude.   

[pyoungbl]

Hi DAS, I have a 2013 Special...basically the same bike.  So far I have 17K miles on the machine and have never had a point where the clutch seemed heavy.  I'd recommend taking a look at the routing of your clutch cable.  On the 2013 models Guzzi had a bad habit of routing the clutch cable very close to the right cylinder fins.  It was all too easy for the cable to get lodged between fins, get overheated, and thus melted into a mass of goo.  Take the tank off and see if you have fallen prey to this very common problem.

Peter Y.

[Cam3512]

Hi DAS, I have a 2013 Special...basically the same bike.  So far I have 17K miles on the machine and have never had a point where the clutch seemed heavy.  I'd recommend taking a look at the routing of your clutch cable.  On the 2013 models Guzzi had a bad habit of routing the clutch cable very close to the right cylinder fins.  It was all too easy for the cable to get lodged between fins, get overheated, and thus melted into a mass of goo.  Take the tank off and see if you have fallen prey to this very common problem.

Peter Y.

I agree with this.  I caught mine early and wire tied it to a tab up on the frame.  Guzzi’s answer was a “protective “ thick rubber sleeve that would melt into an even bigger mass of goo.

[Das]

Thank you brothers for your prompt responses and your thoughts and suggestions.  I had checked the routing to the clutch cable.  As far as I can see all is well in that department.  No mass of melted goo.  The cable appears to be in good condition and not touching either cylinder.

[pete roper]

Clutch isn't fully disengaging. Could be several reasons but the most likely in stop start traffic in Shitney is that the cable has overheated. There is a common misconception that cables 'Stretch'. They don't. What will occur though is that if the cable is routed with tight bends and/or is in too close proximity to some hot part of the motor the outer part of the cable will compress.

The sheath of the cable is basically a coil of wire wound tightly. When it is asked to bend around a corner the coil will spread open on the outer edge of the bend. Now normally, and if the cable is routed correctly, this spreading will be minor and coupled with the support given to the 'Spring' surrounding the inner cable by the plastic sheathing around it will ensure that when the lever is pulled there will still be sufficient travel in the inner cable to move the arm on the back of the gearbox far enough to free the clutch.

As the sheath gets hotter though the plastic will become softer and will be no longer able to reinforce the  spread coil of the inner cable so when the clutch lever is pulled a significant amount of the travel is taken up simply squeezing the coil together leaving not enough to fully activate the clutch. As this happens drive is still being delivered to the shafts in the gearbox and the pinions will be unwilling to disengage because their dog clutches are still loaded up. Hence the 'Non Selection' of neutral.

This problem will be further exacerbated if as others have suggested the cable has fallen into the fins and the inner nylon sheath that sits betwixt the inner cable and the coil of the outer cable has melted or deformed. If it has it will greatly increase the effort required to pull the lever and at the same time exert more pressure on the outer cable further encouraging the coils to compress and leaving yet more of the travel taken up before the clutch begins to activate.

Buy a new cable. Route it with as few and as gentle bends as possible, do not tie it tightly to anything and ensure it is kept away from heat. Adjust it so that there is only a couple of mm of free play. Do NOT lubricate the inner cable as this will cause the nylon inner sheath to swell and grab the inner cable.

I'd also strongly suggest you avoid going to Sydney as it is a stinking wen! Especially to attend events with such a silly name!

Pete

[Pizza Guzzi]

Pete that was a great explanation of the technical aspects of what's going on with the cable when the clutch lever is pulled. I honestly think authoring a book should be on your radar at some stage !
As for Sydney, I've always thought it was a giant above ground sewer !

Glenn.
PS I make no reference to the inhabitants of Sydney just the "thrill" of visiting the place.

[pehayes]

Several additional things to check.

First, the cable inner core is made of several filaments in a wound cluster.  If one of the filaments breaks, the entire system relaxes slightly and thus lengthens slightly.  Inspect both ends of the inner cable carefully to see if fraying has started.

Second, if you have been adjusting the cable too snug, you may have caused early deterioration of the throwout bearing and thus a change in the length of the clutch throwout system.  Crawl under the bike and inspect the throwout outer body at the back of the transmission.  At rest, the throwout body should be flush to the surrounding casting.  If it is recessed then it is time to remove and inspect.  Keep some slack in the clutch cable.

Third, if any of the adjusters have been messed with, then the rear lever at the back of the transmission may be hitting or abutting the transmission castings and limiting the amount of throwout travel.  Make sure the transmission lever is free to move without hitting anything.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Das]

Pete, Glenn and Patrick.  My sincere thanks for your responses.  Pete, an outstanding explanation of the hidden mechanics and mysteries of the 'simple' clutch cable.  Also this description:    "As this happens drive is still being delivered to the shafts in the gearbox and the pinions will be unwilling to disengage because their dog clutches are still loaded up. Hence the 'Non Selection' of neutral.". outlines exactly the experience I was feeling trying to find neutral.
I have to confess guilt on two counts.  First, I have changed handle bars and fitted Tarozzi clip ons.  This, of necessity, induces tighter bends in the cable at the handle bar end causing greater drag.  Second, in an attempt to reduce this frictional effect which I had been living with for some time, but which by virtue of sustaining a crush injury to my left hand, I wanted to alleviate, I, in my ignorance, allowed the local motorbike shop to lubricate the inner cable.  As you have so comprehensively explained this merely poured salt into the wounds.  As an aside, I also have reason to believe, upon closer examination this afternoon, that the lubricant has allowed the locking wheel nut on the adjuster at the handle bar to loosen and over time the adjuster itself has moved position.
So, taking heed of your suggestion I will forthwith obtain a new clutch cable (I would assume the racer cable is shorter and more suited to the set up I have) and avoid lubricating it like the plague.

As to travelling to Sydney, that great heart of darkness, and to make matters worse, immersing myself in a swirling soup of hipsterdom, I can only say I arrived early and got out quick.  By the way, I have looked up the definition of the word 'wen'. Not much was revealed except it seems to be sourced in Old English and refers to some kind of outbreak on the skin.

My thanks again to you, brothers all, for such helpful contributions.

Das 

[malik]

Yes, the Racer cable is a little shorter, and better fits with the Tarozzi (& other) clip ons. Note that the 90 degree bend at the lever I found best directed more rearwards than your previous arrangement. Experiment before finalising.

[Das]

Thanks Malik.   I have the racer cable coming.  I will fit it once I have it in my possession and report back.  I have met the venerable P Roper on one occasion although I doubt he would recall my fleeting encounter ar Bungendore.  I look forward to crossing paths with you one of these days. I happened across a couple of journeymen aboard Guzzis at the recent Berry Bike Show, to whit, one Marty and one Andrew.  They encouraged me to consider associating with a shady group know as the Sydney Moto Guzzi Club. I suspect you may be on familiar terms with this crowd. 😎

[Huzo]

I honestly think authoring a book should be on your radar at some stage !

Touche’...
I used to read Boris Mihailovich and while he had his detractors, I thought he was honest, spoke like the common man and had a great grasp of human nature.
(Remind you of anyone..?)
His grasp of mechanicals was abysmal though by his own admission.
With Pete’s turn of phrase, blunt honesty and a smattering of mechanical knowlege, I would crowd fund a book, buy a copy and read it cover to cover.
There must be a monumental amount of wonderful stories from both here and Pommy land that we could enjoy.
How much bloody money would have been wasted through lying, bottom feeding dealers and “mechanics” if we did not have this well to go to.
And..
Let’s not even get started on about Beetle..
With fuel prices on the Italian Riviera nudging €2.00 a litre, I would have happily performed a lewd act on him if requested. Imagine if the bastard was sucking 6.5 litres/100 k...?
(The bike I mean not Beetle.. )
For God’s sake Pete, don’t take it all with you when you go arse up...!

[Das]

Just an update on the heavy clutch.  Fitted new cable with the handle bar bend pointed as rearward as possible (which was not that much more than stock set up actually), made sure everything was tied up out of the way of hot cylinders and ensured adjustment was good.  Very happy to report that the clutch is now not quite light as a feather but a major improvement on what I had been living with. While I was doing bike maintenance I also loaded Beetle's map. What a pleasure to have a machine which will rev and pull freely from the get go with stalling!

Incidentally, one thing I did notice when I pulled off the original clutch cable was that the outer covering had worn through to reveal the metal sheathing at a point where the cable passes through the forks beneath the headlight nacelle. It had been rubbing on the left hand steering stop, no doubt a situation I had a hand in when I replaced the stock handlebars with Tarozzi clip ons.  May be something to check for any one else who has gone down the same rabbit hole.

Das

[SmithSwede]

Glad you got it sorted.   And thanks for reporting back that the problem was solved.  Makes this forum much more useful.

[malik]

Winner.

BTW, the MGOA is holding a tech clay up at the shed in Hornsby on Sun, 30th . Likely combined with a latte ride up the old road, a BBQ, any tech stuff you like, a load of old lies, boasts & stories. Details on MGOA's webpage and Facebook page. Drop by & test your toes in the water. At the least, you'll get a feed.

[Das]

Thanks SmithSwede.  No worries.  OK Malik.  The time has come.  I'll drift over to the MGOA page, loosen the purse strings and become one of the gang.  Unfortunately the weekend of the 30th is already spoken for but you never know how a cookie can crumble!  Whenever it happens it will be good to catch up and rub shoulders with fellow bullshit artists