V7II Oil leak? Not fixed

[alanp]

My V7II has always had a minor oil seep at the seam between the engine and Trans.  This past week I noticed that the seep looked a bit worse, and there was a fair bit of dirty black oil in the area.  At the same time I decided to check the oil.  It was about a quarter of the way up from the low mark, so I added some to bring up just below the full mark. 

Then I went for a longish ride and parked the bike.  Today there are 2 oil spots on the garage floor below the bike, but I moved the bike before I noticed them so I can't tell exactly where they came from.  There has never been a drip from the bike before.  So, my question:  I don't know if this is the seep becoming a leak, or if topping up the oil may have led to a bit of oil in the crankcase blowoff?  There are two open hoses that terminate behind the oil pan.  Could these be the source?  I am not certain what they are?

[asaleo]

Oil seep may be caused by overfilling the gear box. Since earlier models used 1 liter oil in gearbox some V7 II is filled with 1 liter oil instead of 0,5 liter. It should be 0,5 liter for the V7 II

[Muzz]

It can be a leak from either the gerabox main seal or the crankshaft main seal.

Oil will probably be black from clutch dust any way so conduct a sniff test.  Gearbox oil (being EP) will have an acrid smell. There is on the 2TB models a small rectangular hole between the motor and the bell housing; can be a bit hard to see, which releases any oil that gets past the seals.  After a ride, when you park the bike put a paper towel directly underneathe that hole and see if it lines up.

Can also be from the gearbox vent running down the motor.

[jpv7]

My V7II has always had a minor oil seep at the seam between the engine and Trans.  This past week I noticed that the seep looked a bit worse, and there was a fair bit of dirty black oil in the area.  At the same time I decided to check the oil.  It was about a quarter of the way up from the low mark, so I added some to bring up just below the full mark. 

Then I went for a longish ride and parked the bike.  Today there are 2 oil spots on the garage floor below the bike, but I moved the bike before I noticed them so I can't tell exactly where they came from.  There has never been a drip from the bike before.  So, my question:  I don't know if this is the seep becoming a leak, or if topping up the oil may have led to a bit of oil in the crankcase blowoff?  There are two open hoses that terminate behind the oil pan.  Could these be the source?  I am not certain what they are?

Alan,  I too have a V7ii, and before you panic, check the transmission breather as has already been suggested.  Next, take a close look at the alternator cover at the front of the engine.  On the right side, sort of hidden by the frame, you will see the grommet where the alternator wires come out.  This is the first V7 with the wet alternator, and mine, like many others, leak form there.  Its a piss poor design to sandwich the grommet between the cover and the engine.  Hopefully they did a better job with the V7iii.  They should have gone down to a Ducati dealer to see how to do it properly... 

Engine oil will run down the right side of the engine.  Now mine was not enough to drip on the floor.  If it is leaking from there, the cover needs to come off to fix it right.  That's another story as the abs module bracket is in the way of the top screw...

Good luck!

[alanp]

Thanks for the tips!
I changed the transmission fluid (and rear drive while I was at it) to make sure it wasn't overfilled.  Have cleaned everything up and will see if I get anymore drips. 

[jpv7]

Thanks for the tips!
I changed the transmission fluid (and rear drive while I was at it) to make sure it wasn't overfilled.  Have cleaned everything up and will see if I get anymore drips.

On the transmission (the thing you shift) I add only 450ml or it will puke when I run it hard.  The 500ml is for a dry box.

[Dharma Bum]

Just curious, Alan, did you find your problem?

[alanp]

Just curious, Alan, did you find your problem?

Yes, and I apologize for not following up.  I changed the transmission fluid just to make sure it was not overfilled.  But on subsequent checks I determine that the leak is at the connection point where the oil hose connects to the sump. I was able to tighten the connection about 1/4 turn, and I haven’t seen a drip since. 
There is still a seep between the engine and trans, but it appears to be minor. 

[Dharma Bum]

Well, great minds think alike!  I was checking my Breva last night and found the same exact loose connection!  Maybe i'll keep my sump cleaned off a little more often.  And yes, about a quarter of a turn.

[Muzz]

Good to see the problem is sorted Alan.

Dharma, I actually took the chinstrap off my Breva so that I could more easily keep the sump clean, also to get as much air flow over the fins on the sump; these little suckers run hot.

Never had weeping from the connection; if it ain't broke don't fix it!   I will however keep an eye on it now.

[alanp]

BUMP.  I thought I had found the leak but I was wrong.

An occasional drip has now increased to a several drips after every ride, and probably a steady stream of them during any ride.  I cannot tell EXACTLY where the oil is coming from, but I have determined this:

It is coming from the transmission.  The oil is light colored and has black residue in it which I assume is clutch plate dust.  The engine oil I am using is Motul, and it is red.  This stuff is not red.
   
As described previously, I see a seep on both sides of the mating surface where the engine and transmission meet.  This has been there for a long time.  The seep on the right side has gotten worse in recent weeks and is "wet" after a ride.  I will
post a few pics below.

So, I assume this is a bad seal associated with the clutch shaft (I don't know exactly what this is called)?  Is there enough info for a definitive diagnosis here?  It does seem to be getting worse, but still a pretty slow drip.  Should I get this fixed ASAP? 

[alanp]

Here are the photos







what is the molar mass of aluminum sulfate

[marcdavo]

If you're sure its not engine oil, I'd hazard that it is the seal on the gearbox input shaft. I'm sure others more knowledgeable will chime in.

[alanp]

Thanks, you are probably right on the input shaft seal.  The oil is definitely not from the engine, wrong color.  Anyone else have thoughts or experience on this? 

[malik]

Note that colour is not the best of indicators - so far I've seen two colours in there, one red & one black. In both cases, engine oil is golden new & black used & gearbox oil is gree, in both cases, it's been the gearbox oil in there. I put it down to the colour of the clutch friction plate compound. A mate with a T3 Cali also had a red oil mix in the bell housing, and a leaking main seal on golden engine oil.

Smell is better, someone  attuned to the nuances of the fragrance is even better.

You can pull the rubber bung on the right hand side of the bell housing for limited access, a little better access, especially to the flywheel, comes by removing the starter motor.

It is interesting that you have oil in there, but none on the clutch. Otherwise it would slip. I've had the clutch push rod seal go a few times - oil makes its way along the rod, up to the cup, over the spinning plates and a fine mist is sprayed all over the bell housing. In the cases I've dealt with so far, there's been no evidence in there of other seals letting oil by. it would be interesting to hear of the experiences of those who have had other seals fail in there.

After that, I should think that there's nothing for it but to pull the motor out of the bike & have a look-see.

[malik]

Another thought you won't want to know about. If the bearing on the clutch shaft is loose, it can knock/nudge the seal. We know the bearing hasn't completely collapsed - otherwise it would have compromised the seal badly & you'd have a pool of gear oil under the bike. A big pool. (Been there, done that). But I suppose the seal could fail just a little bit, but one wonders why.

[bigbikerrick]

Something I have found useful when trying to figgure out where a leak is coming from is a fluorescent dye available from any auto parts place like NAPA. Its available in a couple of different colors, so you put a couple of ml. of the dye say in the transmission oil, then ride the bike, and illuminate it with a UV flashlight afterwards. The oil with the dye in it will light up a bright yellow or orange under the light.   It can be added to any fluid, including coolant if trying to find a water leak on a water cooled bike.
This has been very useful for me when determining if my leak was from the rear drive, or the transmission. ( lube going up the driveshaft into the joint boot)
Rick.

[alanp]

Thanks for the suggestion on the dye,  I will look into that, as it should help pin down where it is really coming from.

[Muzz]

Thanks, you are probably right on the input shaft seal.  The oil is definitely not from the engine, wrong color.  Anyone else have thoughts or experience on this?

My Breva had the main seal leak on the gearbox.  The smell off the oil will tell you, gearbox oil (I'm assuming the V7ll still uses EP) has a sharp acrid and rather unpleasant smell.  Fortunately, mine started leaking while it was still under warranty and was replaced no questions.

The gearbox has to come out to replace it, and the nut on the input shaft has to be removed.  Unless you have the cranked (32mm) spanner and the tool to hold the shaft itself, this can be a major as Luigi often did this up to ten million foot tons.

I made my own tools.   Bought a brand new 6 point Koken socket and set the crank on it so that it was the right height that I could clamp the spanner on to the body of the gearbox.  Pete Roper sent over a buggered clutch plate and I used the inner to make the tool to hold the input shaft.  Handles on each tool are about 3 foot long to grt plenty of leverage.

Edit; that nut is VERY thin, hence the 6 point socket and the clamp to hold it on.  It's very easy to round it off.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/pdf/gearbox-repair-breva-750-nick-webb.pdf

A very entertaining how to with Nick Webb's interpretation of Guzzis manual which is lacking in many respects.