Why does my Stelvio keep giving an oil warning?

[leafman60]

I am wondering about the dipstick accuracy.  See my earlier post.

By keeping the oil level down on the skinny part of the dipstick could you be underfilling the oil amount??

Specified oil volume from the shop manual is 3.5 liters or 3.7 quarts with an oil filter change.
 
If you drained the oil and filled to the specified volume of oil, I wonder where the oil would reach on the dipstick and whether the oil light would come on.

Just a stab in the dark. 

Using specified oil volume, mine reads much higher on the dipstick than what you are saying.

[pete roper]

It has nothing to do with the quantity, it's a pressure warning.

[pete roper]

Pics would be fantastic. Thank you Pete.

I may have my Chicken Little hat on, but if the big ends and the mains were slightly fukced, what would the symptoms be? Noises? Could a shaved ape or a plucked sloth mistake those noises for cam chain issues, or exhaust gasket issues?

<deep calming breaths>

If the gasket has blown out and the oil pressure is low enough to trigger a warning then there will also be insufficient oil being delivered to the cam chain tensioner reservoirs so the chains won't be being tensioned and will rattle.

Am I right in thinking that loose camchains may of been suggested by someone as being a cause rather than a symptom?

Pete

PS, if the big ends let go the first warning you'll get is the 'Dogga-Dogga' noise. Complete engine strip and rebuild. If the mains go? New crankcase or major machine work.

[leafman60]

It has nothing to do with the quantity, it's a pressure warning.

My point is could the oil level be dropping below the pickup occasionally and causing the problem?  I dunno.

[pete roper]

David, the lubrication pick up was specifically re-designed with the CARC bike engines so that it sits very close to the bottom of the sump and more centrally in the sump. The sump also has a *Dam* to help prevent oil surge. To actually get oil starvation my guess would be that you'd need less than a litre of oil circulating for starvation to become a problem.

The coolant pick up on the 8V's in the Stelvio is a bit higher but the cooling oil delivery is less important in the overall scheme of things, at least in the short term.

The Cali 14, (And the last of the Grisos.) use another sump design that gets rid of the spacer all together and hangs the oil filter and OPRV etc off an internal mounting. The lubrication pick up though reverts to the sump casting itself with a gauze screen over it. In all a better design apart from the fact that the shallower sump moves the oil closer to the crank again so windage increases.

My accusatory finger is pointing at the spacer gasket. That's really the next port of call. After that? It would mean a good look at the oil pump and OPRV.

Pete

[pete roper]

OK, so this morning I drop the sump off this 1200 Sport with no oil pressure.

Unfortunately the spacer gasket was fine, sooooo.

Disconnect the injectors, stick finger over the pickup gallery, hit the starter.....Uh-Oh, it sucketh not!

What is the word that rhymes with 'Duck'?

So, tank off, airbox out, alternator off, squash finge getting it out, curse, pull off oil cooler and horn, undo crank nut and pull pulley, finally undo timing chest bolts and pull timing chest.



That'll do it! It's the oil pump gear.



The gear teeth are as hollow as a West Virginian hillbillies' teeth! Has to be a manufacturing defect, I've a good mind to send it back to them in a bag full of prawn heads!

More pics in a bit.

Pete.

PS. I want no 'Hom many miles' questions. I have dozens of customers with 8V' with plastic gears and high mileages, it's a manufacturing defect, you can see it when you hold the gear up to the light.

[pete roper]

Michael and I Adjourned to 'The Office' and did a bit more forensic investigation.

Using the torch on his phone and me taking pics with mine we find this gear is bloody HOLLOW!







This is right up there with BMW quality! FMD!

Pete

[Moto]

Egad! Wouldn't this have caused obvious problems from mile 1?

As to an earlier question,

For clarity what is the difference between a 07 error and 08 error and do they come from the same sensor?

07 is "oil sensor fault" -- the oil pressure switch indicates pressure (is open) when the motor is stopped and the key is on

08 is "oil pressure fault" -- the oil pressure switch indicates low pressure (is closed) when the motor is at 2000 rpm or above

Moto

[triman023]

I have had this oil pressure problem. When the bike got hot I would stop at a light and the oil light would come on at idle. I got the courage (fool hardiness) up and revved it up and the light went out.
 I got the thicker gaskets and dropped the pan and spacer. You don't need to remove the SIDESTAND, just take out the two lower bolts + the bolts for the oil cooler that go into the spacer. Sure enough the gasket was blown out. New gaskets are holding fine, they are a light green color.
Don't run the bike without fixing this!

John

[Viker]

Yeah, I've stopped running the bike. But before I stopped running the bike, I was running the bike.

Now I reckon this issue and it's possible consequences are bigger than I have time, workshop, and confidence for to handle.

I wouldn't be happy if a mechanic said to me, "I've never worked on one of these, but I'm a mechanic, what could possibly go wrong?"

So will I say to myself "I've never worked on one of these, and I'm no mechanic, what could possibly go wrong?"

[pete roper]

As an addendum to the earlier info on the faulty gear here are some comparison pics of the failed one and another from one of the much higher mileage motors I have hanging about.

Just comparing them it is obvious from the colour that there must of been something wrong with the material of the failed gear.





Illuminating the *good* gear from behind shows no voids or inconsistency in the material of the good gear.



I managed to pick up a NOS gear from the ex importer as well which was a boon and better yet it was one of the earlier steel gears!



That's better!



Pete

[Viker]

Happy ending for the Sport 

[Greg Field]

Most lokely,what Pete said, but I saw it precisely once that it was the tangle of tube and fittings I'm the sump. One fitting was loose.

[pete roper]

Greg, if you have the time just rip into Pinko. It's a very simple motor. You'll see the weak points I've identified. The oil pick-ups are actually pretty sound, more so than the V11 system. It's actually a great motor. It was white anted by bean counters.

Pete

[toma nova]

I dropped the sump and the original gasket was perfect.  I checked the fittings like Greg suggests and all are tight.

I disconnected the injectors and cranked it over.  There is definitely suction at the pick up - I assume it will not be like a vacuum cleaner but it is clear that the pick up is trying to pick up.

Any other recommendations?

My plan is to reinstall the thicker gasket (it's the green one from MG Cycle though is not obviously thicker like the 2V valve cover gaskets are) and to refill with the specified 10W60 - though I can't see how Mobil 1 20W50 would be negatively affecting anything in TX.

Thanks for any guidance,
Tom

[pete roper]

You dropped the sump, but did you drop the spacer above it? That's the problem gasket not the sump gasket.

If you did check the spacer gasket and it was fine, you've swapped out the sender and are sure that is good then the next check has to be to install an oil pressure guage to check pressure and confirm or deny the problem. If the guage says low or no oil pressure then you'll have to dig deeper. Oil pump and oil pump drive gear would be the next obvious port of call.

Pete

[toma nova]

You dropped the sump, but did you drop the spacer above it? That's the problem gasket not the sump gasket.

DRAT!

I dropped the oil pan but not the spacer (called a flange in the service manual). I installed the thicker gasket (visibly thicker when installed) and put in 3.5 liters of oil.  First start up, no oil pressure light!

I'll run it to hot later then check the dipstick level for reference.

Not a tough job to drop the oil pan, I'll go after the spacer gasket next if the low pressure light continues.

Thanks!

[pete roper]

There are no oil galleries in the sump. Wasn't that a bit of a give away??? Just replacing the sump gasket will of achieved nothing. Don't risk it, you can save the oil by draining it into a clean container for re-use.

Once you have the sump off the spacer is retained by another four bolts. The front two are a bit of a pain to get to and won't come out fully because of the cooling circuit pick up but they don't have to. Once they are unthreaded from the block they'll just sit there on the pick-up tube.

Pete

[toma nova]

I noticed no galleries in the pan....

Flange gasket is on order.  Thanks for the tip on the front bolts.

Thanks,
Tom

[Viker]

Happy ending. My Stelvio is sorted, fixed, and in fine fettle.

Pete was right, the sump spacer gasket was blown. It had probably been blown for a long time. The bolts securing the sump spacer and compressing the gasket were under-torqued, probably from the factory. Their rattling was the noise that other workshops had diagnosed as cam chain tensioners or exhaust gaskets. Now that they're tightened right, my Guzzi is quieter than it's ever been.

Rocker59 was right too, it was a good idea to test the oil pressure. I won't even mention the workshop which replaced the oil pressure sensor twice in a month and never checked the actual pressure.

And thanks to Rob at Guzzispares, for being a good bloke and mechanic and getting me back on two wheels

[pete roper]

Happy ending. My Stelvio is sorted, fixed, and in fine fettle.

Pete was right, the sump spacer gasket was blown. It had probably been blown for a long time. The bolts securing the sump spacer and compressing the gasket were under-torqued, probably from the factory. Their rattling was the noise that other workshops had diagnosed as cam chain tensioners or exhaust gaskets. Now that they're tightened right, my Guzzi is quieter than it's ever been.

Rocker59 was right too, it was a good idea to test the oil pressure. I won't even mention the workshop which replaced the oil pressure sensor twice in a month and never checked the actual pressure.

And thanks to Rob at Guzzispares, for being a good bloke and mechanic and getting me back on two wheels

Excellent!

Look, I know a lot of people don't think I'm 'Nice' enough but quite simply when it comes to the 8V especially I'm worth listening to because more often than not I'm going to be right.

Why? Because I have, and continue to work on a LOT of 8V's. Am I always right? No, of course not and its bloody difficult to be right when you're answering questions from people with bugger-all technical knowledge or understanding but at least I can give you the benefit of knowledge, experience AND understanding. I also rely on critical thinking and the scientific method rather than simply randomly firing off ill thought out ideas or peering into the oily fluid in the bottom of my Scrying Bowl.

If you want answers? I'm always happy to try and help. If you want me to Kow-Tow to arrant nonsense and wild guessing? Well, you're going to be disappointed.

As I said in another thread I tire of idiocy. There's been a lot more of it on WG in the last few years. The easiest way to address THAT is to think before you post.

Pete

[catneck]

I just had this light appear on my 09.
Ordered up the gaskets, here are the part #s:
Flange to block gasket: GU01003651
Sump to flange gasket: GU05003630

[catneck]

This is where the OEM gasket failed:

[triman023]

I also had the blown sump spacer gasket. The oil light would only show up if my engine was hot and at idle. I would immediately shut down for a few minutes and then the light would go away.
Pulled the sump and spacer and there it was, a chunk split off. Replaced it with a thicker one and it been fine for 10,000 miles. No metal in the oil and it runs as new.