DOT Helmets, WTH?

[John Croucher]

If it is cheap, fits and I like it, I buy it.  Only label I look at is the price label.

[bad Chad]

Why not just wear a well made stocking cap instead?

[Motormike]

Blowing the lid off: https://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/MotorcyclistHelmets.html

Supposedly this article led to the firing of Dexter Ford. It was an excellent article at the time and not long after it was published, Snell changed their certification process to be closer to those of the DOT certification. A number of years have passed since then, I have no idea what Snell does now.

Wow! Fantastic research.  I love it.  I never would have found that article. Of course, it's 10:00 at night and I'm on my third glass of wine.  Cavit from Italy, I swear!

[Lannis]

It's a very telling thing culturally that even though the majority of automobile deaths involve a head injury, no one even considers in their wildest dreams requiring or even voluntarily wearing a helmet in a car, like every single competition driver in the world has done for fifty years with no exceptions. Material for a masters thesis in abnormal psych there.....

[PJPR01]

It's a very telling thing culturally that even though the majority of automobile deaths involve a head injury, no one even considers in their wildest dreams requiring or even voluntarily wearing a helmet in a car, like every single competition driver in the world has done for fifty years with no exceptions. Material for a masters thesis in abnormal psych there.....

Which culture has a different opinion on this proposition?  If you're on a race track, helmets in the car are mandatory (autocross, driver's track days etc....in fact, oddly enough, they don't allow motorcycle helmets, they all have to be Snell or Snell rated, so even my Shoei Neotec is not allowed when racing with the Porsche club on track).

Maybe it's due to the belief that 3 point seat belts and front, side, curtain airbags should help offset/reduce the majority of the damage, or more than occurred in prior years before these items were standard equipment.

[kirby1923]

The two top reasons for death or major injury in ANY vehicle crash is head injury or bleed to death.
As far as head injury, the human body doesn't do well with a sudden stop at much over the speed it can run.

NASCAR driver helmets have accelerometers that are read after a CRASH to evaluate the probability of serious injury.

Once your over 20 mph? or so the helmet is really only good for protecting your head and face from lacerations and road rash. (Motorcycles).

It comes down often to a matter of luck.

You pay your money and take your chances..

[LowRyter]

Which culture has a different opinion on this proposition?  If you're on a race track, helmets in the car are mandatory (autocross, driver's track days etc....in fact, oddly enough, they don't allow motorcycle helmets, they all have to be Snell or Snell rated, so even my Shoei Neotec is not allowed when racing with the Porsche club on track).

Maybe it's due to the belief that 3 point seat belts and front, side, curtain airbags should help offset/reduce the majority of the damage, or more than occurred in prior years before these items were standard equipment.

The Corvette club just did the opposite for me.   My Snell approved HJC was expired 2005.  They allowed my Neotec because of more current date.  When one of the members mentioned the Snell business, he was just ignored and I did the track day.

The problem with the track day, the car was new to me and I just wanted to feel the limits of the car and the instructor wanted me to learn the race track.  Also, riding on the track is a different experience than driving.  Driving is a point to point, hit your marks deal, whereas riding is looking far ahead and following the flow.  At least, my experience.

[Lannis]

Which culture has a different opinion on this proposition? 

Well, it's sort of a general observation based on some years and hundreds of posts that I've read, by a lot of people.

1) About 35,000 people per year in the USA die in car crashes.   None of them are wearing helmets.   For about 1/2 of them, a head injury was a factor in the fatality; maybe not the determining factor, but they might have survived absent the head injury.   

2) About 3,000 people per year in the USA die in motorcycle crashes.   About 60% of all riders wear a helmet, and it's estimated that helmets are about 35% effective in preventing a fatality in a crash.    So about 600 people MIGHT have survived if they were wearing a helmet.

Maybe helmets in automobiles would only be 20% effective in preventing a fatality, since there are airbags and such involved.   

That's still about 2000 people that might very well have survived a car crash if they'd been wearing a helmet.   

But NOBODY wears a helmet on the road in their car, and nobody thinks that's odd.   But when a dude rides his MOTORCYCLE with just a do-rag or a beanie, we're all over his arse like a duck on a june bug.   He's an idiot, his head's worth nothing, he's risking his life, he's not a real rider, etc etc etc.

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.    The helmetless motorcycle guy rides without a helmet because he doesn't WANT a helmet on, and he's willing to take the heightened risk of death in a crash.   The helmetless automobile guy rides without a helmet because he doesn't WANT a helmet on, and he's willing to take the heightened risk of death in a crash.    It has nothing to do with "I'm safer in a car, so I don't need a helmet, it wouldn't do any good".   Experience shows that helmets would save lives, but we talk over it because we don't WANT to wear a helmet in the car even though it might save thousands of lives each year, same as Bubba on the chopper with a skull do-rag ....

I'm not putting on a helmet in a car, but I'm not counting angels on a pinhead on the certification of my helmet neither, nor do I care whether dudely wears a helmet or not ....

Lannis

[LowRyter]

really?

feel better now?

[Lannis]

really?

feel better now?

Just part of a Discussion.   On a Discussion list.   

About Helmets.   On a thread about Helmets.   

Concerning Motorcycles.   On a Motorcycle forum.

Lannis

[LowRyter]

Sorry, I'm too busy counting angels on that pinhead to respond now.   

[oldbike54]

 969,488 , 489 , 490 ,

 Dammit , you two made lose count .

 1,2,3,4,

 Dusty

[Tom H]

There is a very simple reason that you do not have to wear a helmet in a car, bus, ect.

Your a government official that want to make it a law, to save the children I'm sure. Your wife has a $500 hair doo a week. How do you think making her wear a helmet would go over?

On the DOT thing. At least in California, for a helmet to be legal it must have the DOT sticker. If you remove the sticker, it's not a legal helmet in the eyes of the cop that stopped you. Also those novelty helmets are not legal. If a cop wants to, he may be able to make you not continue your ride until you have a legal helmet.

Tom

[LowRyter]

969,488 , 489 , 490 ,

 Dammit , you two made lose count .

 1,2,3,4,

 Dusty

kootchy koo  -  made you laugh.

[LowRyter]

There is a very simple reason that you do not have to wear a helmet in a car, bus, ect.

Your a government official that want to make it a law, to save the children I'm sure. Your wife has a $500 hair doo a week. How do you think making her wear a helmet would go over?

On the DOT thing. At least in California, for a helmet to be legal it must have the DOT sticker. If you remove the sticker, it's not a legal helmet in the eyes of the cop that stopped you. Also those novelty helmets are not legal. If a cop wants to, he may be able to make you not continue your ride until you have a legal helmet.

Tom

So you're the guy driving his Volvo Wagon with his helmet on with an unhappy wife?

[Ncdan]

Well, it's sort of a general observation based on some years and hundreds of posts that I've read, by a lot of people.

1) About 35,000 people per year in the USA die in car crashes.   None of them are wearing helmets.   For about 1/2 of them, a head injury was a factor in the fatality; maybe not the determining factor, but they might have survived absent the head injury.   

2) About 3,000 people per year in the USA die in motorcycle crashes.   About 60% of all riders wear a helmet, and it's estimated that helmets are about 35% effective in preventing a fatality in a crash.    So about 600 people MIGHT have survived if they were wearing a helmet.

Maybe helmets in automobiles would only be 20% effective in preventing a fatality, since there are airbags and such involved.   

That's still about 2000 people that might very well have survived a car crash if they'd been wearing a helmet.   

But NOBODY wears a helmet on the road in their car, and nobody thinks that's odd.   But when a dude rides his MOTORCYCLE with just a do-rag or a beanie, we're all over his arse like a duck on a june bug.   He's an idiot, his head's worth nothing, he's risking his life, he's not a real rider, etc etc etc.

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.    The helmetless motorcycle guy rides without a helmet because he doesn't WANT a helmet on, and he's willing to take the heightened risk of death in a crash.   The helmetless automobile guy rides without a helmet because he doesn't WANT a helmet on, and he's willing to take the heightened risk of death in a crash.    It has nothing to do with "I'm safer in a car, so I don't need a helmet, it wouldn't do any good".   Experience shows that helmets would save lives, but we talk over it because we don't WANT to wear a helmet in the car even though it might save thousands of lives each year, same as Bubba on the chopper with a skull do-rag ....

I'm not putting on a helmet in a car, but I'm not counting angels on a pinhead on the certification of my helmet neither, nor do I care whether dudely wears a helmet or not ....

Lannis

Like Forest Gump said about his Momma “you have a way of explaining things that I can understand “ 👍👍😂😂😂

[Lannis]

There is a very simple reason that you do not have to wear a helmet in a car, bus, ect.

Your a government official that want to make it a law, to save the children I'm sure. Your wife has a $500 hair doo a week. How do you think making her wear a helmet would go over?

Tom

I think that's very true.

It's the same reason why they don't get serious about texting and phoning while driving, which is the proximate cause of 6,000 - 8,000 deaths per year in this country, many of them young people.

No legislator is going to pass a real, teeth-in-it law that's going to catch his wife and daughter (and himself, if he's honest about it) doing something that they do every single day, and can't stop doing even if it kills them and someone else.

We'll continue to accept the butcher's bill for distracted driving, and make ourselves look good by passing laws to keep teenagers from gnawing on lead battery posts ...

Lannis

[Tom H]

So you're the guy driving his Volvo Wagon with his helmet on with an unhappy wife?

Not even close.

When I drive it's either my 2014 F150 w/belts that I use because it's the law AND it seems normal for a newer vehicle. Or I drive my 1962 F100 without belts. At the time, they were not required to be installed at the factory. I don't have a problem driving the '62 this way.

My wife prefers belts, so she doesn't like to ride in my F100. I thought about adding belts for her. But if I do, then all available seats need belts.

This is from a MMA and ABATE supporter.

I was going to add a few things, but I'll keep my mouth shut
Tom

[Tom H]

Lannis, I think I agree.

Again, trying to keep my mouth shut.
Tom

A little mouth open. In a state with a law about hands free phones only while driving, I see cops with a phone held to their ear. WTF!!!!!

[Vagrant]

Am I the only one questioning the $500. hairdo?

[LowRyter]

Am I the only one questioning the $500. hairdo?

I wonder if a $500 hairdo will protect the head as well as a DOT helmet?

[kirby1923]

It wasn't too long ago when hair spray, (at one time common), was strong enough to hold grips onto handlebars..

:-)

[Lannis]

It wasn't too long ago when hair spray, (at one time common), was strong enough to hold grips onto handlebars..

:-)

And bobby pins.   Bobby pins had hundreds of uses, most of which had nothing to do with hair.   But no one uses bobby pins any more.

And the little sprinkler with a cork seal that my mother used to put into the top of a ginger ale bottle so she could use it as a water sprinkler when she ironed my Dad's Navy uniform shirts.

Ironed?   Tell kids that today, and will they believe you?

Lannis

[kirby1923]

And bobby pins.   Bobby pins had hundreds of uses, most of which had nothing to do with hair.   But no one uses bobby pins any more.

And the little sprinkler with a cork seal that my mother used to put into the top of a ginger ale bottle so she could use it as a water sprinkler when she ironed my Dad's Navy uniform shirts.

Ironed?   Tell kids that today, and will they believe you?

Lannis

Man does that ever take me back, Ha! Before I knew what the world was really like.

I actually keep an iron and small board in  my office just incase.

:-)

[LowRyter]

There was a mention of helmet rating on one of these helmet rant threads.  I did find this on another forum.  Many helmet ratings.   They list the criteria used for testing.  (this says gov UK)

https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/

https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/

[Moparnut72]

This site can be a real eye opener. I have it saved in my bookmarks. Some of the so-called highly regarded helmets aren't rated too well by this study and vice versa.
kk

[LowRyter]

I am not aware of any other database with helmet data.