NGC how much does attic insulation cost?

[fotoguzzi]

Anyone know about insulation costs? Say 1200 square feet R60.. they will remove all old insulation, seal up all the air leaks into attic with foam, box up and seal any light fixtures then blow in new cellulose layer much deeper that we have now. I'm trying to guess how much is fair and what is a rip off bid. All this work can be done in 1 day with a crew of 4-8 workers.. I already figured a generous estimate on labor cost around $1,000-1200.

This after chasing condensation up there when it gets really cold, you May remember my past episodes.. I'm now convinced we just don't have enough insulation in this old house.

[Matt Story]

Unless there's something wrong with the existing insulation, why remove it?  Just add to it.  Doe it have mold in it?

Lots of old houses were built with the attics sealed up tight with vents in the gables maybe.  I think the best practice is to have the attic floor well insulated, but vents at the eves, rafter vent baffles (keeps the air path clear of insulation) and vents at the ridge to promote convection through the attic.  I thought this counter intuitive when I first heard it.  Works like a charm for me .  Sealing up tight to me is a sure way to promote condensation.

[bigbikerrick]

 This discussion is very interesting to me.I was under the impression that you could borrow a machine to blow in insulation from places like home depot, and do it yourself pretty reasonably. I thought about doing this to my home , as a DIY project with my son. It  was built in 1956,and currently has some vermiculite insulation in the attic, but not much. Has anyone done this  blow in insulation themselves? How hard a job is it? When is the best time of year to do it, spring?
Rick.

[booob]

In florida if you call fpl they will give you at least $500 towards hiring a service to come in and blow new insulation in the attic. I've done it on my 3 houses and ended up not paying a dime to to any of them after the credits.  I'd check with your state for incentives before hiring someone outright.

[brider]

I'd have to agree with Matt on this. Key in an older house in Northern climes is ventilation in the attic. Our house was built in 1965 (not that old, relatively speaking), but had NO attic vents other than small vents in the gables. There was no mold or moisture damage present (might've been due to the lifestyle of the crotchety old Yankees we bought it from, they didn't spend a nickel beyond what was needed to keep the lights on...), but our inspection guy said to IMMEDIATELY install soffit vents all around the perimeter of the roof.

Worked great, I can go in the attic and look down the roof surface to daylight where the roof meets the ceiling at the outside eaves. And since the attic was stick-built and accessible, I bought rolls of 10" thick insulation from HD and draped it across the ceiling joists myself (left the original insulation there between the joists, it was 1" thick max and THAT WAS IT, did I say the original owners were so tight they squeaked?). No condensation with 3 kids taking hour-long showers, and the attic is COLD in the winter.

If the attic is accessible, I would suggest hiring someone to do that-go up with rolls of insulation and just lay it down across/between the joists...no power equipment needed and a LOT cheaper and less messy.

[berniebee]

] they will remove all old insulation, seal up all the air leaks into attic with foam, box up and seal any light fixtures then blow in new cellulose layer much deeper that we have now.

That's a good start. But in spite of sealing with foam, inevitably some moist warm arm will make it's way up there in the winter. So adequate attic ventilation is crucial.
Make sure that there is sufficient venting at the soffits and that insulation baffles (to keep the blown in cellulose from landing on top of the soffit venting) will be installed.
Google "insulation baffles" to see what I mean. These are inexpensive. But I've seen them left out.
You need  also an opening up near the roof ridge . Either a ridge vent or a couple of roof vents should be installed. 

The theory here is that cool air is drawn in at the soffits and warmer air is expelled out the roof vents. That slow air flow ensures that condensation is expelled.
An added benefit of attic ventilation is that your attic and roof deck stays cooler in the summer. So your shingles last longer and your A/C works a little less hard.

[berniebee]

This discussion is very interesting to me.I was under the impression that you could borrow a machine to blow in insulation from places like home depot, and do it yourself pretty reasonably. I thought about doing this to my home , as a DIY project with my son. It  was built in 1956,and currently has some vermiculite insulation in the attic, but not much. Has anyone done this  blow in insulation themselves? How hard a job is it? When is the best time of year to do it, spring?
Rick.

I was under the impression that you could borrow a machine to blow in insulation from places like home depot, and do it yourself pretty reasonably. I thought about doing this to my home , as a DIY project with my son. It  was built in 1956,and currently has some vermiculite insulation in the attic, but not much. Has anyone done this  blow in insulation themselves? How hard a job is it? When is the best time of year to do it, spring?
Rick.

You can and I have - a few times. Keep in mind that there is one type of blower for chopped pink fiberglass and a different one for cellulose. You local hardware store may sell both kinds of insulation, but rent only one type of machine!

You definitely need a son for this kind of job. One person to load the blower while the other is the spray master up in the attic. The hardest part is prep. You need good ventilation in the attic. If the soffit venting is adequate and you have roof vents, you're half way there. You need to install insulation baffles at every truss (rafter) bay, which involves crawling under the lowest part of the roof- not so much fun. Seal the air leaks from living area to attic. The plumbing vent pipes,recessed lighting, the attic hatch, chimney and furnace flues are the most obvious culprits.

Whoever is in the attic needs at a minimum at good face mask and washable clothes - you are going to end up dusty! I use a mask, goggles and a disposable painting suit. And watch your step. Ceiling drywall does not support an adult male.

The machine comes with a really long (50-75') hose. The idea being you set the machine somewhere near your stack of insulation bags . Typically in the driveway next to the house.  If you can get the hose into the attic via a gable vent, that's best. Otherwise, run the hose through an open door or window and up through a ceiling attic access into the attic. You guessed it, some insulation is going to fall back into the house through the hatch. Judicious aiming of the spray hose will minimize this.

The ideal time to do this is when it's cool out, because attics get very hot in the summer and when it's not too windy, because the insulation bags have to be cut open when you load the hopper so there will be spillage around the machine.

BTW, you mentioned vermiculite insulation. Depending on where it was mined, vermiculite contains asbestos. South Africa - no. Libby, Montana - yes. In my neck of the woods,  vermiculite  in the attic is a red flag for house buyers. I don't want to freak you out- undisturbed vermiculite is not a danger to your health. But if you think you will sell at your place at some time in the future, you might consider having the vermiculite removed.

[roadventure]

Anyone know about insulation costs? Say 1200 square feet R60.. they will remove all old insulation, seal up all the air leaks into attic with foam, box up and seal any light fixtures then blow in new cellulose layer much deeper that we have now. I'm trying to guess how much is fair and what is a rip off bid. All this work can be done in 1 day with a crew of 4-8 workers.. I already figured a generous estimate on labor cost around $1,000-1200.

This after chasing condensation up there when it gets really cold, you May remember my past episodes.. I'm now convinced we just don't have enough insulation in this old house.

That is a very fair price.  As others have mentioned though, effective insulation is not just about adding more insulation.  Having proper airflow is also a factor. 

[roadventure]

This discussion is very interesting to me.I was under the impression that you could borrow a machine to blow in insulation from places like home depot, and do it yourself pretty reasonably. I thought about doing this to my home , as a DIY project with my son. It  was built in 1956,and currently has some vermiculite insulation in the attic, but not much. Has anyone done this  blow in insulation themselves? How hard a job is it? When is the best time of year to do it, spring?
Rick.

I have not done this, but YES, you can do it.  Blowing insulation is not a high skill job.  It is messy and requires proper protective gear. 

Also, you need to make sure you do it right for the way your house is constructed.  A little research on how your house is built and education on your part (readily available on the internet) will help you get the job done right for your particular situation.

[kingoffleece]

I added a power vent controlled by temp and/or humidity to keep air moving.  A HUGE difference.  Remember, too, that if it's not done correctly heat will migrate down the wall studs all summer long.

FULL soffit vents are the way to go if you can.

[fotoguzzi]

That is a very fair price.  As others have mentioned though, effective insulation is not just about adding more insulation.  Having proper airflow is also a factor.

those are my figures, the first estimate was $8,000. Yikes.

Berniebee, thanks for the info, most l already knew.. I am simply to old for this kind of do it yourself, my knees can't take two minutes in the attic and my boys are close to worthless for this kind of thing.. if it involved guns they would be all over it.

After doing those calculations I'm convinced the first guy was a total rip off, I guessed that once he said his "discounts" were only good if sign contract NOW. I told him I would never do that so he gave me 24 hours to sign, sorry, no go dude.

I spoke to another more down to earth guy and he's coming over for a look today so we'll see how it goes from there.. I see plenty of outfits right near me and I'll keep checking until I find an honest company.

And yes I'm fully aware of the venting needs.

So thanks for all the quick replies everyone.

[Lannis]

I learned a lesson when I built my house.   Fay and I were doing most all of it ourselves.   We contracted out the standing-seam metal roof (which is a specialist job).    I laid all the first-floor brick and block, but contracted out the two chimneys (42' high, I ain't going up there).    I did the electrical, poured the footers, etc.

So the house was dried in, windows in, electric and plumbing done, and it was time to insulate the walls and attic.   I was getting contractor's prices at the building supply place, had my own account, and my own salesman.   I asked him for a price for the insulation (rolled fiberglass, 6" for the 2 x 6 walls, 10" for the attic).    He gave me a price that I thought was attractive (and was in line with another quote I had from a wholesale insulation supplier), then he winked and handed me a card; it was for an insulation contractor that also bought from them.

I checked with the contractor, and they quoted a price that included all the insulation and ALL the labor for 80% of what the insulation alone was going to cost me!    They brought out a crew of about 5 guys (a rough crowd by anyone's standards) who worked like Trojans and did all the insulation for the 3200 sq ft house in less than a day.   It would have taken Fay and I two weeks, not to mention itching and frustration by learning "on the job" how to do it.

Maybe there's such a deal still out there.

Lannis

[larrys]

I checked with the contractor, and they quoted a price that included all the insulation and ALL the labor for 80% of what the insulation alone was going to cost me!    They brought out a crew of about 5 guys (a rough crowd by anyone's standards) who worked like Trojans and did all the insulation for the 3200 sq ft house in less than a day.   It would have taken Fay and I two weeks, not to mention itching and frustration by learning "on the job" how to do it.
Maybe there's such a deal still out there.
Lannis

Was that way when I was a contractor thirty years ago. I am told that it still is that way 'round here. The insulation contractors buy the stuff by the freight car load...
Larry

[bigbikerrick]

Berniebee, thanks for the heads up about the vermiculite. My home was built in 1956 in Arizona. I will have to check on the vermiculite to see if it has asbestos. I had a friend tell me years ago it was vermiculite, but never actually confirmed it. It almost looks like paper mache pieces made from  old newspapers is the best way I can describe it.
thank you
Rick.

[Huzo]

Attic insulation?
The prices are “through the roof...” 

[redrider90]

We installed foam that is solid. it grows and then seals off everything. It did not need to be baffled. We did the walls also as we had stripped the house to the frame due to mold. It was amazing the difference in the winter with solid foam insulation. I believe now they have moved a to soy bean based foam as opposed to what they put in our house. This foam does not grow mold in or on it under any circumstances. I'll dig and look for the prices but it was very reasonable.

[larrys]

Closed cell or open cell foam? Open cell was popular in my AO for a while because its cheaper than closed cell. Then folks figured out that its a sponge for water. Closed cell does not absorb water.
Larry

[kingoffleece]

Bingo!

[JohninVT]

I run a weatherization program for a CAP agency in Vermont.  We insulate 150 homes a year and we all have a half dozen BPI certifications.  Send me a PM if you have questions on cellulose, chopped fiberglass, spraying 2 part foam, attic venting or building science in general.  R60 for 1200 square feet is about 130 25lb bags of cellulose.  I have no idea what a bag costs in that quantity because I buy cellulose and Insulsafe by the truckload, 1200 at a time Every month.  I’d guess you’d pay $8-10 a bag retail. 

The 2 part foam is what’s expensive.  It’s about a buck a foot wholesale so it can add up fast if you’re having the exterior and interior wall tops done.  I buy a dozen 750bd/ft 2 part kits a month so my pricing is obviously low at a buck a foot.  We always spray it 3” thick around the exterior wall tops and 1” thick on interior wall tops.  It’s foolish to do the wall tops without also doing the boxsills.  You have to stop the air top and bottom or you’ll still get moisture moving up the walls.  148’ perimeter x 3” is roughly $450.  Multiply that by 2 to get the wall tops plus spray the basement boxsills and it’s a grand.  You must have at least 100’ of interior wall tops but they only need an inch to air seal them.  There’s at least $1200 in foam. 

It’s very easy to get $5-800 into can light covers, insulated flex duct, roxul and chimney flashing when you’re air sealing an attic that size.

Sooooo....to do it right, air sealing the top and bottom of the building and blowing cell to R60 you’re looking at $2500-3000 in materials.  Things like removing insulation, boxing fans and recessed lights and flashing chimneys are labor intensive.  There’s more to it than stuffing bales of cellulose in a Krendl.  The Krendl in the guy’s truck costs $10,000, by the way.  More if it’s gas powered.  Spraying 2 part foam with a poor fitting respirator will kill you.  Dead.  If the contractor is running a big inline fan to the gable vent to stay safer while he’s spraying foam that’s $2000.  If the contractor does before and after blower door readings for you...that equipment is $3600.  A good IR camera is $2000.

I’m probably too late but my advice is to have a BPI certified Energy Auditor do an audit on your home.  I would also suggest that you not hire a contractor unless they walk the house with you with an IR camera before and after the work is done and who also provides before and after blower door readings. 

[JohninVT]

Berniebee, thanks for the heads up about the vermiculite. My home was built in 1956 in Arizona. I will have to check on the vermiculite to see if it has asbestos. I had a friend tell me years ago it was vermiculite, but never actually confirmed it. It almost looks like paper mache pieces made from  old newspapers is the best way I can describe it.
thank you
Rick.

All vermiculite is assumed to have asbestos in it.  Please go here: https://www.zonoliteatticinsulation.com/

Follow the directions to send in a sample and have it tested.  If it is from the Libby mine, the trust will help pay to have the vermiculite abated.  The Zonolite folks are excellent to work with.  We have dozens of homes a year abated using Zonolite Trust funds.  Do not mess with vermiculite.  Also, do not listen to people who say it’s not dangerous.  If you leave it alone it’s not a huge cause for concern but stirring up the dust and moving it is bad juju. 

[fotoguzzi]

Hey John, your expertise is right on time. The guy I'll go with did walk thru with the IR heat sensor and will show me again when it's done. Also does the blower door test before and after..He is going to foam all the wall tops and address the recessed lighting. He's the owner of the company who knew what fotoguzzi must stand for!  He reminds me of you, had all the facts and will do it all as you say..
Thanks for the cost estimates too. Now I'm sure I'm getting a fair deal and the first guy was trying to rip me off.

[Numbercruncher]

You are correct.  If you just want more insulation, get some buddies and rent a machine.  The only caveat is to make certain to break the insulation into really tiny pieces or it will clog in the hose and you'll NEVER get that clog out.  You could probably get away with two guys, one to feed the machine and one to spray the insulation but I would have a third as a floater to help feed the hose in and out and to keep the process going.  Ideally, team up with a couple of neighbors and do two or three houses in a single day.

NC

This discussion is very interesting to me.I was under the impression that you could borrow a machine to blow in insulation from places like home depot, and do it yourself pretty reasonably. I thought about doing this to my home , as a DIY project with my son. It  was built in 1956,and currently has some vermiculite insulation in the attic, but not much. Has anyone done this  blow in insulation themselves? How hard a job is it? When is the best time of year to do it, spring?
Rick.

[JohninVT]

Hey John, your expertise is right on time. The guy I'll go with did walk thru with the IR heat sensor and will show me again when it's done. Also does the blower door test before and after..He is going to foam all the wall tops and address the recessed lighting. He's the owner of the company who knew what fotoguzzi must stand for!  He reminds me of you, had all the facts and will do it all as you say..
Thanks for the cost estimates too. Now I'm sure I'm getting a fair deal and the first guy was trying to rip me off.

Just for giggles, what was the starting blower door number?  Did he mention ASHRAE?

[fotoguzzi]

Just for giggles, what was the starting blower door number?  Did he mention ASHRAE?

we don't have the starter number yet, probably coming in a week or so. I know it will be high (or is it low?) we have a leaky house I'm sure.