Positioning Panniers, then and now...

[Anomaly]

So, Dave Swanson's post about secret Guzzi lust brought into sharp focus a "problem" I have with something of late. To back up, I've been killing lockdown time thinking about adding some saddle/sidebags. To explain my problem, let's start with the photo Dave posted





This seems really attractive to me. In contrast, here is the setup on the modern v7 Classic:




The panniers are much further aft in the new set up. I think this is aesthetically "wrong" and I suppose have weight further back is also detrimental from a handling perspective. But, to be honest, my gripe is with the aesthetics. Am I missing something, is there a good reason for this shift in positioning side bags?

[rocker59]

Yes.  Whoever set up those bags on that V7 set them too far back.

Here are Hepco + Becker on my 2010 V7C.

[Kev m]

Yeah, I dunno what kind of messed-up bag mount is on the V7C, but that's NOT where the HB bags sit on the V7C or V7 Stone:



EDIT - seconds slower than Rocker.

I will add that current bag placement has a lot to do with accommodating a passenger. I.E. you can't have the bags as far forward as on that T3 Cali without interfering with a passenger's legs. I imagine if you either mounted much smaller bags or eliminated the passenger pegs from a late-model smallblock you could scootch the bags forward a bit using custom mounts. But I don't see the visual or balance problem with the HB setup.

[Anomaly]

OK, so that may be the answer: In the "modern" photo I supplied, those were allegedly the factory OEM mounts. I agree the HB mounts position the bags further forward in a more sightly fashion. Thanks!

[Dirk_S]

I personally feel that even the OEM AND H-B racks for the V7II are too far back. I like my Givi mounts that are sent generally inline with the center of the wheel. I wonder if the others’ designs were based on a desire to avoid too close of proximity to the rear shocks?

[Kev m]

I personally feel that even the OEM AND H-B racks for the V7II are too far back. I like my Givi mounts that are sent generally inline with the center of the wheel. I wonder if the others’ designs were based on a desire to avoid too close of proximity to the rear shocks?

But how big are the bags?

[Dirk_S]

But how big are the bags?

Good point. Not as big as yours. I’ve had military bags on (pic’d below but on top of the sidecases instead of the rear) and waterproof Vuz bags (pic’d). The Vuz ware 24L each supposedly. I recently purchased a pair of Viking “Cafe” bags in size large (no pics yet), but the large is only 13.5L, assuming each, which is nearly half the size of the Vuz.

[Rich A]

I put Givi racks on my V7 III Special. I have a set of E22s (black ones) for everyday use and Dolomiti 30s (silver) for trips.







Rich A

[rocker59]

  I wonder if the others’ designs were based on a desire to avoid too close of proximity to the rear shocks?

 

They're placed as far forward as possible, accounting for the passenger pegs.  With H+B bags on a V7, there is limited room for passengers' feet.  Any further forward, and the passenger pegs would needed moved or deleted.

[malik]

I always thought that the whole idea of racks was to position the major weight over the back axle, while preventing the luggage interfering with the shocks & the wheel. That's why my racks are so fashioned.






And loaded - with up to 20kg over the axle & pillion seat, and maybe 10kg on the rack.





And here's one from a mate who has managed to set up his hard bags adequately.

[malik]

Also check out the C-bows from H&B - I have an idea that they replace the grab rail, and position the weight over the axle. I like the concept - unobtrusive when unloaded, but stout & tend to place the weight properly. Those that have them seem happy enough. Note that the OEM rear rack, and, I think, the H&B, also replace the grab rail, but provide an alternative handle to grab onto.

[Cam3512]

Also check out the C-bows from H&B - I have an idea that they replace the grab rail, and position the weight over the axle. I like the concept - unobtrusive when unloaded, but stout & tend to place the weight properly. Those that have them seem happy enough. Note that the OEM rear rack, and, I think, the H&B, also replace the grab rail, but provide an alternative handle to grab onto.

Correct.  When I mounted the C-Bow brackets on my '14 Special, the grab rails had to go. 

[Kiwi Dave]

Here's a pix of my V7-III Stone showing Givi E21 panniers mounted on Hepco & Becker C-Bows.





I don't think they could be fitted any further forward.  The height is just right to allow light baggage to be strapped across the seat and supported by the panniers.

[Cam3512]

Here's a pix of my V7-III Stone showing Givi E21 panniers mounted on Hepco & Becker C-Bows.





I don't think they could be fitted any further forward.  The height is just right to allow light baggage to be strapped across the seat and supported by the panniers.

Looks like you have the brackets made for the more upswept pipes of the Racer.  Stone snd Special bags should sit more horizontally.  Easily confused on their website.

[Kiwi Dave]

I agree, the photo looks this way, but the whole bike looks small at the front and larger at the rear.  I must have had my camera or phone on a wide angle lens setting.  Front wheel is 18", rear wheel 17"; the photo doesn't suggest this.

The bags sit horizontal IIRC.

[Tom H]

Anomaly,

I think part of the problem is the design of your bags. HB's are more square, your is long so it looks farther back.

I don't know if it can be done on your bike, but you may be able to move them forward, but then you would have to have them out farther to miss the shocks and also move the passenger pegs forward. My Loops, EVT and BMW have bags outside the shocks.

Tom

[Anomaly]

Tom,

I don't have ANY bags (yet). I'm just - window shopping... I posted a picture I saw online of a v7 Classic but it wasn't mine.

[theoneandonlymin]

So when it came to building a frame to carry my Ardcases the main criteria  was that there was enough room for my pillion to move their feet around a little. If I were doing it again I'd have a non pillion setting bringing them forward a wee bit.



On my G5 I used the standard racks and slightly narrower Ardcases. They barely come out past the crashbars.



Cheers
Min

[moto]

Anomaly,

I think part of the problem is the design of your bags. HB's are more square, your is long so it looks farther back.
...

Agreed. The old Wixom design was just right in some ways. For one, it slants backwards at the front to clear the passenger's foot on the footrest. For another, its rear profile just about matches the rear fender when seen from the side. I remember falling in love with my T3  just from the way the bags looked as the previous owner rode up to meet me on it.  I don't have any good shots from the side, but this sort of gives the idea:





Moto

[Burkslaw]

I have a set of National Cycle bags on my Jackal. I love the ducktail on the trailing edge-- matches the fender line perfectly.

[jacksonracingcomau]

So, Dave Swanson's post about secret Guzzi lust brought into sharp focus a "problem" I have with something of late. To back up, I've been killing lockdown time thinking about adding some saddle/sidebags. To explain my problem, let's start with the photo Dave posted





This seems really attractive to me. In contrast, here is the setup on the modern v7 Classic:




The panniers are much further aft in the new set up. I think this is aesthetically "wrong" and I suppose have weight further back is also detrimental from a handling perspective. But, to be honest, my gripe is with the aesthetics. Am I missing something, is there a good reason for this shift in positioning side bags?

One word, fashion
and perceived aesthetic that follows
Opposite of form follows function
Up to 70’s was about function
Then we got upswept pipes followed by dirtbike style high muffler
So bags got higher, one or more chuffed off a little further out

Wise man once said
Keep your weight low and forward
Bike stays planted, even tortured
But put your weight high and wide
Go too fast, you’re on your side

Retold to me often by people telling me they’ve dumped their luggage in hotel/ campground and bike handles so much better

Me, I like the journey, bike always bagged up, luggage low and forward, more weight there doing shopping than travelling, handling much more important than anyone’s opinion on looks

I make bags around my girls feet, just
Maybe not enough room for ten ton Tess’s  (or Tony’s)  big calves
But bike not sprung for them either  !

My sb as is today, carries all groceries without a twitch,  route to my  farm gate shops a bit of a tester,
Play



There is a reason for speed warnings on high wide bags and weight limit on racks, ignored because of fashion !