Author Topic: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?  (Read 2802 times)

Offline Slarsonroy

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Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« on: May 13, 2020, 05:09:52 PM »
Can someone please point me in the right direction for a Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats and such?  For my 1976 Convert.
1972 Eldorado
1976 Convert
1971 HD FLH
1953 HD FLE
1968 Norton Atlas 455 miles
BSA, Triumph, Norton, Laverda & Jap projects

LesP

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2020, 07:29:22 PM »
Kibblewhite USA would be one option.
New seats is fairly drastic but they would have something that could be used no doubt, top shelf parts but oddly enough the price difference is not that great.
The C630 guides need someone who knows what they are doing and have the tooling to size them.

HMB Guzzi / MG Cycle  have valves and guides of OEM quality, OEM  seat source unknown.

I have Kibblewhite in two Nortons, two Triumphs and my DR (big valve head)... The quality is top notch but more for the keep the bike forever type.

https://shop.kpmivalvetrain.com/c/sport_moto-guzzi_all-2-valve-big-blocks-1971-2012

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=68_127&zenid=e36d58b8b7508b4e29cab2d7ba8f4887






« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 07:42:36 PM by LesP »

Offline Cdn850T5NT

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2020, 08:42:37 PM »
Hoffman Automotive Machining (I believe in Athens, GA). Len Hoffman is probably the premier aircooled cylinder heads guy in the USA. Does VW's, BMW airheads, etc.

There aren't many out there with his rep.

See attached.



« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 08:43:54 PM by Cdn850T5NT »
1985 Eurospec 850 T5 NT (Nuovo Tipo - New Type... i.e. Series III)

Offline Cdn850T5NT

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2020, 09:15:10 PM »
'Don't know why it says "Bad Gateway" when I try to activate the graphics....

But the website is:  https://newsite.hamheads.com/

And:  https://newsite.hamheads.com/home-2/

They are not in Athens, GA, but I see, now - in Watkinsville, GA.

Sorry!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 09:26:29 PM by Cdn850T5NT »
1985 Eurospec 850 T5 NT (Nuovo Tipo - New Type... i.e. Series III)

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2020, 09:23:19 PM »
No need to replace the valve seats, they are more than hard enough even without lead in the fuel or use of any additives. 

I buy guides and valves from MG Cycle, better than o.e. quality at a very reasonable cost.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_127&products_id=342
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_127&products_id=343
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_127&products_id=423

Charlie

Offline bodine99

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2020, 09:17:05 AM »
+ on Kibblewhite becareful on a moshine-shop. worth sending to a shop that does VINTAGE motorbikes

Offline Slarsonroy

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2020, 06:48:36 PM »
Thank you for the great info. I order most of my parts from MG Cycle so its good to hear I can get them there.

As far as the seats, Im concerned about just one of them. The previous owner had a bad valve and it looks like a loose valve guide. He replaced the cylinder and piston too but I dont know if it was damaged. Since the valve guide is loose, it may have hammered the seat? I have both heads at a friends shop that rebuilds aircraft motors and another friend that works there does a lot of work for me in his spare time in trade for motorcycles/parts. The shop and my friend are both knowledgeable on vintage bikes and frequently do engine work for a select few. They will tell me if I need a seat or not.

Another concern is the cylinder that he replaced. One cylinder is iron sleeved, the newer one appears to be Nikasil or chrome? A magnet slightly sticks to it. Would it matter at all if they are not the same? They are the same bore and have the same pistons.
1972 Eldorado
1976 Convert
1971 HD FLH
1953 HD FLE
1968 Norton Atlas 455 miles
BSA, Triumph, Norton, Laverda & Jap projects

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2020, 07:10:39 PM »
Another concern is the cylinder that he replaced. One cylinder is iron sleeved, the newer one appears to be Nikasil or chrome? A magnet slightly sticks to it. Would it matter at all if they are not the same? They are the same bore and have the same pistons.

Magnet doesn't stick to chrome. To Nikasil very slightly, to iron liners very well.
Charlie

Offline Slarsonroy

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2020, 07:26:08 PM »
Magnet doesn't stick to chrome. To Nikasil very slightly, to iron liners very well.

Is one Nikasil cylinder and one Iron cylinder a concern? I suppose one would wear faster than the other. But how long could that take...
1972 Eldorado
1976 Convert
1971 HD FLH
1953 HD FLE
1968 Norton Atlas 455 miles
BSA, Triumph, Norton, Laverda & Jap projects

Offline Cdn850T5NT

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2020, 08:00:54 PM »

As far as the seats, Im concerned about just one of them. The previous owner had a bad valve and it looks like a loose valve guide. He replaced the cylinder and piston too but I dont know if it was damaged. Since the valve guide is loose, it may have hammered the seat? I have both heads at a friends shop that rebuilds aircraft motors and another friend that works there does a lot of work for me in his spare time in trade for motorcycles/parts. The shop and my friend are both knowledgeable on vintage bikes and frequently do engine work for a select few. They will tell me if I need a seat or not.


I'm told that the correct way to get the old valve guide out is to drill it out to the tune of 95% of its wall thickness and to drift-out the rest. That way, with much weakened interference fit in the head it will NOT broach the head (and lose a  good fit - interference fit - for the new valve guide.. Fitting a new guide of course does not guarantee that when reamed to the correct valve stem bore size the point of contact with the seat will be concentric with the old valve's point of contact .The best shops apparently use a Serti seat cutting machine to create a new line of contact. If the two lines of contact are too far from concentric the machinist can run out of seat material and break thru to (aluminum) cylinder head. New seat required then (I think). Correct heating of head in an oven is critical... resulting in the correct interference fit of the new seat in the head's seat-pocket. Then creating a new and correct seat profile is another particular skill.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 08:07:27 PM by Cdn850T5NT »
1985 Eurospec 850 T5 NT (Nuovo Tipo - New Type... i.e. Series III)

Offline Slarsonroy

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2020, 07:35:24 PM »
No need to replace the valve seats, they are more than hard enough even without lead in the fuel or use of any additives. 

I buy guides and valves from MG Cycle, better than o.e. quality at a very reasonable cost.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_127&products_id=342
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_127&products_id=343
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_127&products_id=423

I just see one valve guide listed at MG Cycle. Do they have an oversized guide?
1972 Eldorado
1976 Convert
1971 HD FLH
1953 HD FLE
1968 Norton Atlas 455 miles
BSA, Triumph, Norton, Laverda & Jap projects

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2020, 08:31:54 PM »
I just see one valve guide listed at MG Cycle. Do they have an oversized guide?

They used to offer oversized guides, but they sold so few, they dropped them. I've never needed them. Kibblewhite has oversized guides.
Charlie

Offline jared p

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2020, 11:03:49 PM »
Another good resource I've found is https://shop.tlm.nl/
Nun sacciu, nun vidi, nun ceru e si ceru durmiv

Offline Cdn850T5NT

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2020, 10:19:56 AM »
A lot of people including shops still drift (beat) new guides in instead of drawing them in with a fixture that centralises in the seat.
I have not heard of such a device. Where can i find more info about this?
1985 Eurospec 850 T5 NT (Nuovo Tipo - New Type... i.e. Series III)

Offline Slarsonroy

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2020, 01:17:20 PM »
They used to offer oversized guides, but they sold so few, they dropped them. I've never needed them. Kibblewhite has oversized guides.

My '72 Eldo had an intermittent tapping, like a noisy lifter when I first got it back on the road after languishing at least 30 years by the previous owner. After checking the clearances 3 times, I finally pulled the head and found a loose valve guide. I could push it down with my thumb. A friend of mine that is a retired machinest made an oversize guide and installed it, no further problems.

Thanks for the tip on Kibblewhite. I ordered 4 new ones from MG and will see how they work out.
1972 Eldorado
1976 Convert
1971 HD FLH
1953 HD FLE
1968 Norton Atlas 455 miles
BSA, Triumph, Norton, Laverda & Jap projects

Rough Edge racing

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2020, 05:35:21 PM »
I have not heard of such a device. Where can i find more info about this?
I have the tool, use it for drawing in guides on my Triumph race and street bikes. One end of the tool has a cone shaped head to centralize in the valve set. The other end pulls in the guide using a precision threaded rod....Many guys machine away the spring side of the guide and drive the remaining stub into the combustion chamber to avoid carbon broaching the guide bore.
  Many high volume shops use a $300,000 Newan single axis valve machine. Serdi is similar.An experienced machinist using quality hand held tools can do a good job...The tighter the valve to seat runout ,the tighter the valve stem to guide clearance can be without risking galling..

Offline Cdn850T5NT

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Re: Parts supplier for valves, guides, seats?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2020, 11:56:26 PM »
I have the tool, use it for drawing in guides on my Triumph race and street bikes. One end of the tool has a cone shaped head to centralize in the valve set. The other end pulls in the guide using a precision threaded rod....Many guys machine away the spring side of the guide and drive the remaining stub into the combustion chamber to avoid carbon broaching the guide bore.
  Many high volume shops use a $300,000 Newan single axis valve machine. Serdi is similar.An experienced machinist using quality hand held tools can do a good job...The tighter the valve to seat runout ,the tighter the valve stem to guide clearance can be without risking galling..

Thx Rough Edge.
1985 Eurospec 850 T5 NT (Nuovo Tipo - New Type... i.e. Series III)


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