Centauro v Griso

[Joliet Jim]

Well the Griso is called a Griso. The mighty Centauro is called the beast. Sums it up nicely.

[JJ]

Well the Griso is called a Griso. The mighty Centauro is called the beast. Sums it up nicely.

"The Beast" indeed...I remember letting my Ducati-Beemer buddy ride it...and his comment was: 

"It's a completely different motorcycle above 70 mph!" 

[boatdetective]

I might suggest some peripheral issues:

The Centauro body panels are unobtanium. Anything can be repaired- but bodywork and refinish is time consuming.

The CARC drive system really is quite nice (IF it is lubed ;)   From the engine back, the Griso has it all over the Centauro I would think.

The Grisos do have very nice suspenders- lovely ride.

There are plenty of 8V engines out there and the plant is well proven- working on a Griso is pretty simple.

I have no clue about the electronics behind a Centauro- but would ask how reliable the heart of the system is (I'm thinking about the somewhat notorious dash issue with the early B11s)

[Guzzistaracing]

I have had both and it is like comparing apples and oranges. The Griso is a better bike in all aspects. My Centauro had upgraded suspension front/back and a Will Creedon chip and was as good as it is possible to make them still the Griso is a better bike. Much more refined and you really feel the better suspension etc. If you want the best bike go for the G. I loved my C but I miss them both. The G is very fussy about suspension set up and tyre/tyre pressure.

[Joliet Jim]

As much as I love my Centauro I'll admit a post 2012 Griso is probably a better purchase due to many of the reasons mentioned. I believe the Centauro was only made for 3 years and had a very limited production, along with the bugs that didn't get fixed in the subsequent versions that were never made.

Now from what I understand, the first version of 8V Grisos had a bit of an issue with their top-ends, i.e. after 2013 vs before 2013 issue with the top end. All that said if I were to buy one today I'd probably buy a Griso. Would I trade my Centauro for a Griso?, No. for a V11 Sport variant or 1200 sport 4v, maybe. For anything currently made by Guzzi, definitely No.
 

[blackcat]

"....much more refined..."

It's what I like about the Daytona, it is much more visceral and uncivilized than the Griso. That doesn't mean that I don't like riding the later bikes.

[Chuck in Indiana]

"....much more refined..."

It's what I like about the Daytona, it is much more visceral and uncivilized than the Griso. That doesn't mean that I don't like riding the later bikes.

Ever since The Kid restored his Spot, his Grease O sits. The older bike never lets you forget you are operating a "machine.." and after all..to me..that is why I ride them.

[lucky phil]

Interesting to see how this thread has evolved, its drifted down the emotional path which isn't a criticism just an observation. The OP originally asked about thoughts on the purchase of 2 different bikes presumable to actually ride not as a garage queen.
One option is now at best 20 years old with a production run of 1918 units total ( or 3418 total Datyona/Centauro engines) has an engine with significant and very expensive to rectify wear issues in the cylinder head, oil pump and cam drive with parts that are getting impossible to source and highly unlikely to ever be available again due to the economics and engineering challenges involved.Second hand spare parts that do become available are often not from old worn engines but from engines that have had serious failures, generally big end seizures and oil pump failures, which they are renowned for.
The other option is a bike you can relatively easily buy at 3 years of age with low mileage and is a robust design with plenty of parts available. You can even bump them up to 1400cc without breaking the bank if you feel the need. Plenty of tuning and EFI mapping by very competent people about as well.
Emotion will always be a factor but really buying a Centauro over a Griso to actually ride around at this point in time for the average motorcyclist in the street is bordering on madness. Believe me I'm mad enough to have gotten way more deeply involved in the 8 valve engines than most and my advice is dont even go there. Unless you have a fascination with obsolete engineering and you like mechanicing more than riding and engineering challenges of course. If thats the case then the Daytona/Centy community is very supportive.

Ciao

[Tusayan]

My RS is my favorite of nine motorcycles, gear and oil pump issues are fixed on mine and I don’t expect to have engine issues...  but if I do, forgive me for saying this, the source of parts will likely be a rough Centauro bought cheap.  I already had this in mind when I bought the RS in 1999, when the 8V engine was being discontinued and the 4V V11 Sport was introduced as the Guzzi sport bike.  Rough Centauros are out there, I’ve thought about buying one for parts but I think they will remain ‘out there’ and probably won’t appreciate in value, even with what I think is a very special engine.

It’s true that the Griso was an Aprilia update to the Centauro concept so its really the only later bike that is directly comparable to what Guzzi made before the takeover.  I think the did a pretty good job although I prefer the belt driven cams and the shorter wheelbase of the earlier bike but the styling of the Griso is better.

[lucky phil]

My RS is my favorite of nine motorcycles, gear and oil pump issues are fixed on mine and I don’t expect to have engine issues...  but if I do, forgive me for saying this, the source of parts will likely be a rough Centauro bought cheap.  I already had this in mind when I bought the RS in 1999, when the 8V engine was being discontinued and the 4V V11 Sport was introduced as the Guzzi sport bike.  Rough Centauros are out there, I’ve thought about buying one for parts but I think they will remain ‘out there’ and probably won’t appreciate in value, even with what I think is a very special engine.

It’s true that the Griso was an Aprilia update to the Centauro concept so its really the only later bike that is directly comparable to what Guzzi made before the takeover.  I think the did a pretty good job although I prefer the belt driven cams and the shorter wheelbase of the earlier bike but the styling of the Griso is better.

Hopefully you will be fine but the cylinder heads are the highest wear part of the engine and it's not oil pump related. I've never seen valve guide wear so bad in an engine as my centy when it was pulled down. We are talking .030" guide to valve stem clearance. Lifters are also another high failure item as well. If I was buying a Daytona/Centy engined bike with 50,000 klms on it I would be budgeting on new oil pump and cam drive assembly and new valves, guides and lifters at the very least. The cam drive and oil pump to prevent catastrophic failure and the valve gear to maintain it's performance and stop it becoming a rattly   old lump. The guides valves and lifters would need to be non standard as well or in the case of the lifters, gas nitrided to improve the wear.
A second hand 8 valve Guzzi is like buying a second hand bevel drive Ducati when it comes to the mitigation costs of the mechanical implications.

Ciao

[Tkelly]

Owning a Centy sounds kind of like owning a Vincent back in the60s,there were owners clubs and rallies and you could find cheap examples.However I am 75 and don’t care much about collector value in 50 years so the Griso is for me.Thanks all for some very interesting perspectives.

[pebra]

Yeah, this was (still is!) a lovely thread.
I've never ridden a Centauro, or any other bike with similar motor. Some of the comments on it here are meaningful, though - operating a machine, uncivilised, a beast. 

More of a handful probably than my roadster, which also is like riding a machine, I'd say.

I was 70 this March, and really appreciate my 8V Griso. Definitely a Guzzi, but very smooth. Rock steady on the road. 

[LowRyter]

Remember to get a rollerized Griso.  Check the production dates and models.  The final version SE seem to have a little more sporty go than the others I've ridden.  I've heard it's got a little different gearing (I'm not saying that it true but I'd appreciate the facts).

[Dilliw]

Remember to get a rollerized Griso.  Check the production dates and models.  The final version SE seem to have a little more sporty go than the others I've ridden.  I've heard it's got a little different gearing (I'm not saying that it true but I'd appreciate the facts).

The only gearing  change that I know of is the 1100 vs 1200.  My SE is 4k @ 70mph top gear and for the 1100 maybe 500 more.  Not the the most notable difference between the two however.

[lucky phil]

Remember to get a rollerized Griso.  Check the production dates and models.  The final version SE seem to have a little more sporty go than the others I've ridden.  I've heard it's got a little different gearing (I'm not saying that it true but I'd appreciate the facts).

Yes the SE is very nice with the wire wheels and paintwork. It might seem I'm very negative about the Daytona/Centi engines but I'm really just trying to cut through the emotional side and save people from some grief. To me they are the best looking engine Guzzi ever made commercially and are a candidate for engineering refinement. These things are really for the committed owners with a large degree of engineering passion that dont mind stripping down engines for the pleasure of it and are well equipped to do so and dont mind spending more money on a machine than is sensibly justifiable. It's a level beyond the general maintenance and home tune up guy. Currently I'm slowly researching affordable options for remaking major components that are no longer available so people can keep these things on the road. Joe Caruso has done a great job with the oil pump and cam gears so there's a significant part of it and hopefully Joe keeps making them. This wont be a profit making prospect just a service to current and future owners.

Ciao

[TN Mark]

I know it “can be” done with enough time and money; but, how difficult would it be to either put Centauro cloths on a Griso or a Griso 8V engine and electronics in a Centauro?

[drdwb]

TK by any chance did you just visit Watertown?  They had a couple beautiful Centauros there last time thru. Every time I stop there I leave with visions of one more bike I’d love to own. Eye candy - brain torture, for the bike addict.

[lucky phil]

I know it “can be” done with enough time and money; but, how difficult would it be to either put Centauro cloths on a Griso or a Griso 8V engine and electronics in a Centauro?

Not sure but very difficult I'd imagine either way. Putting the V10 engine in the V11 was challenging enough to do and make it look factory with retaining the airbox,bodywork, and V11 injection system and that required zero structural alterations.
The issue with a Hybrid like this isn't fitting the engine in the frame although that's obviously a challenge it's making it look "factory" and professional. Thats why you see so many hybrids with pod filters etc because they dont bother with the finicky painful stuff.

Ciao

[Tusayan]

Hopefully you will be fine but the cylinder heads are the highest wear part of the engine and it's not oil pump related. I've never seen valve guide wear so bad in an engine as my centy when it was pulled down. We are talking .030" guide to valve stem clearance. Lifters are also another high failure item as well. If I was buying a Daytona/Centy engined bike with 50,000 klms on it I would be budgeting on new oil pump and cam drive assembly and new valves, guides and lifters at the very least. The cam drive and oil pump to prevent catastrophic failure and the valve gear to maintain it's performance and stop it becoming a rattly   old lump. The guides valves and lifters would need to be non standard as well or in the case of the lifters, gas nitrided to improve the wear. A second hand 8 valve Guzzi is like buying a second hand bevel drive Ducati when it comes to the mitigation costs of the mechanical implications.

Mine at circa 35,000 km doesn’t show any current signs of top end wear, but thanks regardless for the details.  If and when when it does need the heads redone, they’ll come off and I can work on them while riding my bevel SS instead    That one is my second favorite bike, after the RS.

[Tkelly]

Motorcycle Shop in Watertown has the 2 I was considering,priced to sell.