Close Call

[azk]

Sorry for the long read.

I had a very dangerous event happen to me a few days ago which could of been a lot worse but somehow I got lucky.

Quick history. I drive a 2012 V7 Stone which has generally been fine since I got it, although it has its MG quirks every now and then but nothing major.

In Sept 2019 I noticed a small amount of oily residue on the back wheel and I suspected it was coming from the drive train compartment. My bike was in need of a service so I brought it into my usual place to get it looked at. The repairs were done and it was fine to drive for the rest of the year.

I went away in December so it was standing still for about 2 months, came back and took it for a drive. Ive been driving it around slightly less than usual with CV going on but even so I took it for a 30km drive the day before the incident with someone on the back as well.

The next day we planned a drive around with some friends so I cleaned it up a bit and didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.

I drove about 10 miles to meet up at friends house then continued to drive some more and got on a motorway. Going about 60/70mph I went to push a button on the speedo to clear the mileage. Around that time something happened and I very quickly started to lose power, then control which caused my back wheel to skid side to side as the speed dropped. Luckily I managed to keep control of the bike and must of dropped at least half my speed maybe more, I'm not sure. I don’t know how I did it but I was very close to losing it. If the roads were wet I don’t think I could of counter stirred to stay upright. I really don’t think I pushed a gear down or anything when I hit that dial button in case people wonder about that.

I quickly pulled onto the hard shoulder safely and noticed smoke coming from the drive train.

We were in a pretty sketchy part of the road so I very carefully drove on to get off the motorway to have a safer look. After stopping I then noticed that on the drive train/transmission that the oil plug (6) wasn’t there along with all the oil inside the housing. There was a bit of very fine metal shaving on the wheel and what looked like some splatter marks around the wheel but it wasn’t thick at all.

I was shocked! And I still don’t understand how this happened. I then got it picked up and transported to my usual Guzzi mechanic.

I asked for a brief description from the mechanic its with and some photos which are below;

“Pinion gear chewed (photo 1/2), debris (photo 3), inner bearing surprisingly good (photo 4), inner race also surprisingly good (photo 5). Bearing hidden under crown wheel (photo 4), destroyed.”
My question is... where did the oil go, as there was none on the wheel or tyre? Where did the filler/level plug go? If they come loose, they drip on the tyre.”

If anyone can she some light on this please let me know as I feel this is all very strange and should not me happening?

It possible to change some internal bits inside the drive train to get it running again but tbh I am a little on edge to drive that specific bike. Should that be a thing or not?

[fotoguzzi]

welcome to the forum, I have no idea where your gear lube (not oil) from the rear drive (not the drive train) went.

[bodine99]

My 2 cents the Sept. service it got drained, fill plug cracked loose and tech failed to refill.

[80CX100]

My 2 cents the Sept. service it got drained, fill plug cracked loose and tech failed to refill.

     ^^^^^This^^^^^

      If need be, I have others work on my vehicles, but on my bikes, absolutely not.

      Glad you got the rolling wreck to a safe stop, well done to stay upright.

      If I were in your shoes, I might be a little leary of the bike going forward, but I'd be taking a real hard look at the mechanic and shop that last worked on it.
      I don't think you're looking at a situation that is a normal mechanical failure, probably more of a consequence of service incompetence.

      To get it repaired, I don't know what the cost of all those pieces are, but it might work out easier and cheaper if you can pick up a used rear end unit.

      Good luck

       Kelly

[lorengo70]

Sorry for the long read.

I had a very dangerous event happen to me a few days ago which could of been a lot worse but somehow I got lucky.

Quick history. I drive a 2012 V7 Stone which has generally been fine since I got it, although it has its MG quirks every now and then but nothing major.

In Sept 2019 I noticed a small amount of oily residue on the back wheel and I suspected it was coming from the drive train compartment. My bike was in need of a service so I brought it into my usual place to get it looked at. The repairs were done and it was fine to drive for the rest of the year.

I went away in December so it was standing still for about 2 months, came back and took it for a drive. Ive been driving it around slightly less than usual with CV going on but even so I took it for a 30km drive the day before the incident with someone on the back as well.

The next day we planned a drive around with some friends so I cleaned it up a bit and didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.

I drove about 10 miles to meet up at friends house then continued to drive some more and got on a motorway. Going about 60/70mph I went to push a button on the speedo to clear the mileage. Around that time something happened and I very quickly started to lose power, then control which caused my back wheel to skid side to side as the speed dropped. Luckily I managed to keep control of the bike and must of dropped at least half my speed maybe more, I'm not sure. I don’t know how I did it but I was very close to losing it. If the roads were wet I don’t think I could of counter stirred to stay upright. I really don’t think I pushed a gear down or anything when I hit that dial button in case people wonder about that.

I quickly pulled onto the hard shoulder safely and noticed smoke coming from the drive train.

We were in a pretty sketchy part of the road so I very carefully drove on to get off the motorway to have a safer look. After stopping I then noticed that on the drive train/transmission that the oil plug (6) wasn’t there along with all the oil inside the housing. There was a bit of very fine metal shaving on the wheel and what looked like some splatter marks around the wheel but it wasn’t thick at all.

I was shocked! And I still don’t understand how this happened. I then got it picked up and transported to my usual Guzzi mechanic.

I asked for a brief description from the mechanic its with and some photos which are below;

“Pinion gear chewed (photo 1/2), debris (photo 3), inner bearing surprisingly good (photo 4), inner race also surprisingly good (photo 5). Bearing hidden under crown wheel (photo 4), destroyed.”
My question is... where did the oil go, as there was none on the wheel or tyre? Where did the filler/level plug go? If they come loose, they drip on the tyre.”

If anyone can she some light on this please let me know as I feel this is all very strange and should not me happening?

It possible to change some internal bits inside the drive train to get it running again but tbh I am a little on edge to drive that specific bike. Should that be a thing or not?

Hi, I had my rear drive fail as well a month ago or so. The teeth on the pinion broke (look at pictures i posted here a while ago). Still not sure why to this day how it happened. The final drive oil had been periodically contaminated with water and i had to change oil regularly (i suspect it entered the system through the breathing screw). Anyhow, that might somehow weakened the teeth's metal but just pure speculation.

So, the cheapest solution I found was to change the whole rear drive bevel box. I bought one from Ebay from an used V7 III racer that had 5k miles on it (i have a V7 II stone but it fits no problem). I paid CAD$200 (or USD$150 for it) but i got lucky. I've seen others on ebay (mostly coming from Europe) ranging from USD$300-$475. It will be cheaper than buying the parts individually and rebuilding it yourself or having someone else do it.

As to how your problem happened, I think is like someone just mentioned, someone forgot to fill up the oil. I would also chyme on what someone else also mentioned here, its best to do the work on your own bike yourself so as to be sure that things are done properly. Just my 2 cents. cheers.

[twowheeladdict]

its best to do the work on your own bike yourself so as to be sure that things are done properly. Just my 2 cents. cheers.

Or at least have no one else to blame for shoddy workmanship.   

[malik]

Sounds to me that either the drain plug wasn't done up tightly, or at all, the o-ring was forgotten, or it was criss-threaded (an all too easy a feat, the metal of that casting is quite soft - one of my final drives now sports a helicoil there). If you are going to repair the box, do check the drain plug's thread.

[azk]

Hey guys, long overdue reply. No excuse 

So yes I've put this question on another forum and the finger seems to be pointing to the tech and the last service. Its a shame as I really liked the guy and he was a specialised Guzzi mechanic. He's been working on Guzzi's for years and years so Id would of hoped he would of been the best.

On the last service report as well I see the the drive box oil on the list so would that mean they forgot it but still checked it on the invoice.....?

I don't think we will ever find out the real cause annoyingly and yes its definitely made me a bit wary of this particular bike.

I did send it back to the same tech to check out and total costs for repair are about £600-700. Parts from a used drive box but I am considering doing this myself now as I do see good reasoning behind looking after your own skin with bikes.

Appreciate all the replies !

[Kev m]

Hey guys, long overdue reply. No excuse 

So yes I've put this question on another forum and the finger seems to be pointing to the tech and the last service. Its a shame as I really liked the guy and he was a specialised Guzzi mechanic. He's been working on Guzzi's for years and years so Id would of hoped he would of been the best.

On the last service report as well I see the the drive box oil on the list so would that mean they forgot it but still checked it on the invoice.....?

I don't think we will ever find out the real cause annoyingly and yes its definitely made me a bit wary of this particular bike.

I did send it back to the same tech to check out and total costs for repair are about £600-700. Parts from a used drive box but I am considering doing this myself now as I do see good reasoning behind looking after your own skin with bikes.

Appreciate all the replies !

THANKS for the follow up. Yeah that sounds like the likely situation. Sorry it happened to you, but it reinforces my DIY attitude on bikes.

Good luck with the repair!

[usedtobefast]

So did the mechanic have a theory on how it ended up like this? 

If the bolt fell out at some point you would have an oily mess all over the wheel/tire.  So the "mechanic forgot to put drain bolt back and fill it" seems the most likely reason/cause for this.  And actually, I can't think of another one.

[azk]

The mechanic says they did all the right things but doesn't have a clear theory on what happened. I have asked for a second time now a bit harder so I will see what comes back.

Its difficult as I just can't throw blame around when someone is so sure.

I think all I can do ti cut my looses, get the guy to fix it up and then maybe look for someone else after that

[Tom]

You'd definitely have oil on the rear of the bike if there was oil there to start with. 

[Dave Swanson]

I guess we now know how long your can ride without final drive oil.   

[Bisbee]

They forgot to fill with oil and probably reused the crush gasket so the bolt came out. I took my first bike, a 1986 K75C to the dealer for its breakin service. 5000 miles later I did another full service only to discover that the “ factory trained” mechanic had failed to put any oil in the gearbox. Later, I found out that he was a cokehead. Ever since, I’ve serviced them myself. The BMW never complained . They must have built good gearboxes back then.

[Bert Remington]

I've been happy with the Norge service by my local dealership except they used local lubricants (Maxima) so I supplied them (Eni, Motul).  There was always some left over so they returned the partially-filled containers and everyone had no doubts the fluids were refilled.

For the new V7 III I was going to let them use Maxima but this thread changed my mind.  I'm going to supply the lubricants so I get the partials back thereby assuring everyone the rest was put into the motorcycle.