V7II clutch questions

[alanp]

Background:  my V7II has a transmission fluid leak, which I assume is due to a leaky trans input shaft seal.  I have determined this as I get drips of trans fluid on the garage floor, and  fluid is seeping out of the seams between the engine, clutch housing, and trans.  Also, I have recently noticed that the clutch is disengaging sooner than it used to, I.e. it takes very little pull of the clutch lever to disengage the clutch. 

Questions:  might the clutch be "disengaging" sooner because it is becoming saturated with trans fluid and thus begins to slip as soon as I pull the clutch lever a tiny bit?  Or, might this be something I could fix with a clutch adjustment of some sort?
And I guess the real question is, do I need to fix the leak now, or can I continue to tide the bike until autumn without risk of being stranded?

[guzzisteve]

If it was my bike I'd fill clutch area w/mineral spirits & flush it out, that way you can be sure the plate is clean and see if it's changed from what you got now. BUT that's me. To do this plug hole in bellhousing for drips of oil. Then cause you have no timing inspection hole(6 speed), slide back starter & fill. Replace starter & start making a mess.

[malik]

There's no inspection hole in the 6 speed's bell housing? What's the world coming to? On the 5 speed smallblocks at least, oil gets into the bell housing (& then on the clutch) either from the main real engine seal (engine oil), the clutch shaft seal, or more commonly, from a failed clutch push rod seal. I've had 3 of the latter (so far). The push rod seal fails, oil seeps up the push rod, onto the cup & the plates. Oil on the clutch plate causes clutch slip under load. On mine, there's never been enough oil to drip out of the bell housing. The slipping clutch was fine to ride around town, but not much fun on the open road or in the tight twisties.

Sooner or later the engine is going to have to come out to get at the bits that need replacing. It's significantly cheaper to do the job yourself, shops will likely be charging for at least 6 hours labour. I tend to ride with the clutch slip until I can no longer stand it, then bite the bullet & just do it, but then I have 2 of the beasts - if I had only the one, I'm sure I'd make the time & do it sooner. There's plenty of info & tutorials around to help. I've another one to get started in this week. We shall see how long this one one takes - theoretically, it should be a lot quicker than previously - I have the parts, and the tools and I've been there before, so should know what I'm doing. We shall see.

[MMRanch]

malik

Is there any way to make the clutch easier to pull while your into that deep ?   

[SmithSwede]

How badly is the clutch slipping?  I rode the second clutch of my V7 Stone about 15,000 miles with it slipping.  It would go 75 mph with no headwind, but no faster.  It never did burn up, although I was very careful not to let it slip more than momentarily.   If it didn’t want to go uphill more than 60 mph, I let it set its own pace. I could have gone longer, but got tired of it slipping.   No visible oil leaks on this one.   

My first clutch failed at about 62,000 miles, and I was getting a very prominent leak of trans fluid out of the bell housing.  One of the steel anti-judder plates in the clutch itself had fractured.  The seals looked ok.  The real problem was the total failure of the transmission input shaft bearing located behind the clutch housing (part number 92201225).  It was so bad the input shaft could wobble.  My theory is the shaft was wobbling or vibrating in some weird way such that the seal could not contain the oil. 

I was told this bearing is the weak link in the small block transmission.  I figure to replace it every time I replace a clutch. 

Upshot is you really won’t know until somebody gets in there to look at it.   And the bad news is this is a pretty big job to do yourself. 

[alanp]

I don't think the clutch is slipping at all as far as I can tell.  It just disengages very early in the clutch lever pull, which I interpret as it starting to slip due to the trans fluid on it. 

[malik]

malik

Is there any way to make the clutch easier to pull while your into that deep ?

The last time a heavy clutch pull was brought to my attention (It had crept up on me & id got used to it), I found a broken strand in the cable. I have found both aligning the clutch lever to your hand movement and the paso style adjustable levers to be helpful.

While you have the swingarm off (so access to the gearbox cover is unemcumbered), loosen the cable off completely and set the grub screw on the clutch arm behind the push rid properly. Screw it in until it touches, back it off an eight of a turn, set the lock nut. Ensure you haven't lost the spring between the clutch arm and the gearbox cover. Then adjust the clutch at the handlebar so that you have a couple of mm free play.

I have found lubricating the cable to be counter productive - just ends up gumming the works. The inner is stainless, and the sheath is Teflon lined. If the cable doesn't run freely, a new cable is advised. I always have a spare on hand, just in case. It has proved a wise practice.

[MMRanch]

Thanks for the tip Malik .   I did a version of what you suggest.  Loosened the cable ran the adjuster in till it touched - then backed out 1/6 turn and lock it down !   then adjusted the cable.    I've ordered a "Easy - pull" Long-lever set (waiting on them now). ???

 SmithSwede
Are you referring to the "Rear main bearing." being replaced every 50K miles ?    I'm on 16K now in two years.
I've never had mine apart - the best I have now is the "SPARE PARTS CATALOGUE" diagrams  to look at.   It shows how things fit together and all the parts numbers.

[SmithSwede]

 SmithSwede
Are you referring to the "Rear main bearing." being replaced every 50K miles ?   

No. Moto Guzzi just calls it a “bearing.“  It is a 25x52x15.    It is held in place with that half moon shaped “bearing fixing plate.”  This is the bearing just behind the clutch bell housing that supports the transmission input shaft.   

My first one totally failed at 62K.   I was getting a lot of swarf on the magnetic oil drain plug.   A Guzzi guru told me he wasn’t surprised and that this was the weak link on the Guzzi small block.  It was so bad that after removal from the shaft, you could rotate it and the balls would fall out. 

That being said, I’m back into the transmission for another clutch this week and looked very carefully at this bearing.  This one now has about 40K on it and seems perfectly fine.  Rotated smoothly with no notchy feeling.   I compared it to a new one, and it has no more play that the new one.   

So I made the potentially fateful decision to leave the old one in and keep running it.   I may be cursing myself if it blows up in the next 20K.   

On the other hand, maybe my first one was a fluke and they actually can last a long time.  My understanding is that bearings are weird statistical beasts.  Some fail early for no clear reason; some last a really long time. 

[malik]

I've found the bearings seem to last well. I replaced the one on the last box I did, the original (on the V7 Special) was a tad rough, & although it seemed OK once cleaned up, I did have flakes of the 5th gear's hardening all over, & it had done 106,000km, so I replaced it. The new 6205 was cheaper (AUD $16.50) than the seal ($22.90). I did replace most of the other bearings as well while I was there - even good quality ones are cheap, as well as any seal I could see. The gearshift does seem smoother, but that's subjective. Next time? With anything over 100,000km I'll likely be tempted to do the same.

[malik]

bump   

[alanp]

Thanks for the replies, very helpful for my frame of mind if nothing else!  I am going to keep riding her and have someone open it up In the fall and replace things as needed.  I know it will be an expensive job, but my mechanical skills fall several levels short of tackling this.  Your input will provide good guidance as to what to look for. 

[MMRanch]

I know it will be an expensive job,   
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The only thing worse than working on a 1/2 worn out peace of #&^%$#  , is paying somebody to work on my 1/2 worn out peace of #&^%$#  ! 
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My LS650 Savage has about 60,000 miles on it  the Guzzi only 16,000 miles .