Author Topic: Will this 18" wheel fit a lemans? (Read 2705 times)

bigbikerrick · « **on:** August 12, 2020, 01:12:01 PM »

Hello folks, does anyone know if this 18" wheel from a Cali,will fit on the front of a Lemans IV with the 16" wheel?
Thanks
Rick.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333651995880?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

Tom · « **Reply #1 on:** August 12, 2020, 01:32:14 PM »

IIRC, it should but the rest of the stuff may not work. Biggest thing is that you'd have to run a tube or convert (Guzzi content) it to tubeless. You'd lose the tubeless option of the 16" rim. Is the 16" too quick in turning for you? or the availability of tires?

Mayor_of_BBQ · « **Reply #2 on:** August 12, 2020, 01:36:55 PM »

Hey Rick!

IDK if you are an adventurerider member, but if you go there and search for the thread "Ugly goose into eagle of Zeus" by member Gregor Halenda, he outlines a 18" f wheel swap from a cali to his (unfortunately now abandoned) LMIV project. The wheel swap is in the first few pages. I would toss you a link, but I'm at work now without ADV access. It shouldn't be too hard to find. He does great work, all his threads are great follows.

Groover · « **Reply #3 on:** August 12, 2020, 02:34:10 PM »

Here is the link to the ugly goose mentioned by Major BBQ. I actually have that front wheel and fender spacers now, bought it off of member SPScottNT on this forum last year. The guy whom did the modification, did a really nice job on it.

https://advrider.com/f/threads/metamorphosis-ugly-goose-into-eagle-of-zeus.972947/

But that wheel was from a California III, not sure if the same process needs to be done for the California II wheel Rick is inquiring about or not. Curious myself.

Two Checks · « **Reply #4 on:** August 12, 2020, 04:01:11 PM »

It may not fit under the fender.
Is that model a "tall neck" type? If so the steering geometry will be screwed up.

John A · « **Reply #5 on:** August 12, 2020, 04:32:33 PM »

Guzziology should have that info as well.

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #6 on:** August 12, 2020, 05:01:55 PM »

Couple points:

1) your front wheel, if you made that swap, would not match your rear wheel... by way of "spoke" pattern or style; and

2) I really don't believe that Guzzi changed the steering head tube inclination when they went from an 18" wheel to a 16... and in the same way when they went "backwards". So when you change to an 18" wheel from a 16 on your LeMans IV... you get the double-whammy of 'way more gyroscopic effect and effectively a higher rake angle due to chassis tilt. Both of which slow down the steering action / reactivity.

wirespokes · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2020, 07:58:06 PM »

The steering geometry is the same with them all. The ride height stays the same when the 18 is swapped in replacing the 16, by running the fork tubes an inch above the top triple. That keeps the steering geometry consistent. My 87 had been converted to an 18 early on and that's how I got it. All of the LM 1000 after some time in 85 had triples with reduced offset. I found a set of early triples with the 'normal' offset of earlier bikes and like it a bit better, but it didn't make that big of a difference.

Turin · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2020, 10:03:13 PM »

I run a taller profile front tire. works great.

ccoli · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2020, 10:32:23 PM »

The brake discs will be spaced farther apart. The hub of the wheel has wider carriers for the disc's. Lmiv front forks are closer together than a Cali.
Don't have any dimensions handy as everything is in storage

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2020, 11:10:57 PM »

Quote from: Turin on August 12, 2020, 10:03:13 PM

I run a taller profile front tire. works great.

Turin, did you change from 120/80-16 to 120/90-16... or ???

bigbikerrick · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2020, 01:00:48 PM »

Hello Folks. Thanks for all the great info,and links. The 16" on the front of my Lemans works fine, but I just thought if an 18" rim were available that I could swap in just to try out how it feels , I would do it, just for fun, as long as it was bolt on , simple mod.that could be easily reversed.The differences ccoli mentions in width is something I was not aware of.
Groover, the wheels on my California II were tubeless, or at least I ran tubeless tires on them without issues. Is it a bead/safety thing? Thanks for the link to the "ugly goose" story. That was a fun read!

Cdn850T5NT, I thought that 18" wheel had the same spoke pattern that is currently on my LM IV....Maybe not. I thought it looked the same with the straight spokes.
Rick.

Groover · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2020, 01:30:05 PM »

I think it was Tom here whom mentioned the tubeless thing, but IMO, those rims are actually safer than normal tubeless rims because of the CP2 rating on them (Double Contre Pente), but no tire shop is going to agree with that. That's a whole different topic, and there is lots of information on that here: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=99834.0

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2020, 03:13:34 PM »

Quote from: bigbikerrick on August 13, 2020, 01:00:48 PM

Hello Folks. Thanks for all the great info,and links. The 16" on the front of my Lemans works fine, but I just thought if an 18" rim were available that I could swap in just to try out how it feels , I would do it, just for fun, as long as it was bolt on , simple mod.that could be easily reversed.The differences ccoli mentions in width is something I was not aware of.
Groover, the wheels on my California II were tubeless, or at least I ran tubeless tires on them without issues. Is it a bead/safety thing? Thanks for the link to the "ugly goose" story. That was a fun read!

Cdn850T5NT, I thought that 18" wheel had the same spoke pattern that is currently on my LM IV....Maybe not. I thought it looked the same with the straight spokes.
Rick.

Rick, the e bay ad showed a Cal II frt rim... with 5 sets of wide-spaced spokes. The later style... LeMans one - has 5 sets of narrow-spaced spokes. Also the LeMans' is 2.5" wide... the Cal Ii appears to be 2.15" wide.

Groover · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2020, 04:48:22 PM »

Quote from: Cdn850T5NT on August 13, 2020, 03:13:34 PM

Rick, the e bay ad showed a Cal II frt rim... with 5 sets of wide-spaced spokes. The later style... LeMans one - has 5 sets of narrow-spaced spokes. Also the LeMans' is 2.5" wide... the Cal Ii appears to be 2.15" wide.

Correct

Tom · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2020, 05:06:43 PM »

WM vs MT rims.....something like that. I'm posting from the office. Anyone can correct. Chris is right on the brake calipers etc. Not a simple roll in, roll out situation.

bigbikerrick · « **Reply #16 on:** August 13, 2020, 06:13:41 PM »

Muchas Gracias, Guys for "setting me straight" on the facts pertaining to the wheel swap. This place is such a wonderful resource of information. in other words..." You Guys Rock!"

Rick.

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2020, 10:11:45 AM »

Quote from: Groover on August 12, 2020, 02:34:10 PM

Here is the link to the ugly goose mentioned by Major BBQ. I actually have that front wheel and fender spacers now, bought it off of member SPScottNT on this forum last year. The guy whom did the modification, did a really nice job on it.

https://advrider.com/f/threads/metamorphosis-ugly-goose-into-eagle-of-zeus.972947/

But that wheel was from a California III, not sure if the same process needs to be done for the California II wheel Rick is inquiring about or not. Curious myself.

I read the reference link (Advrider) with great interest. I looked closely at the graphics. What's not clear to me is whether Gregor deepened the counterbores for the wheel bearings and possibly faced the casting to suit. Clearly he milled the locating tabs and the rotor bolting surfaces... Does anyone know the answer?

If I were to want to switch to an 18" frt hoop on my T5... and I wanted to go to a 2.5" wide rim (from my current 2.15" wide) - AND LeMans 18" hoops continue to be elusive... that would be the procedure I'd have to follow.

BTW my forks are 38mm, spaced 180mm appart.

Very instructive; nicely done!

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2020, 11:13:54 AM »

I think the answer to the question lies in whether the wheel bearing part numbers, wheel bearing spacer, and all other components' part numbers - associated with the stack-up (but NOT the axles) are the same between the LeMans IV and the Cal III. Do Y'All agree?

Groover · « **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2020, 01:08:28 PM »

Looks to me that just the brake rotor bolting surfaces needed to be brought in tighter (7.5mm per side). Both have the same bearings part number and same bearing internal spacer. Other than that, looks like just the axle and the spacer are the major different parts between the two models. I'm thinking the T5 parts are the same as the LM being they are both at 180mm fork spacing.

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #20 on:** August 17, 2020, 02:17:15 PM »

Thx for checking, Groover. Makes it easier... 7.5mm off the tabs + bolting surfaces, ea. side...:)

blackcat · « **Reply #21 on:** August 17, 2020, 02:23:24 PM »

Quote from: Mayor_of_BBQ on August 12, 2020, 01:36:55 PM

Hey Rick!

IDK if you are an adventurerider member, but if you go there and search for the thread "Ugly goose into eagle of Zeus" by member Gregor Halenda, he outlines a 18" f wheel swap from a cali to his (unfortunately now abandoned) LMIV project. The wheel swap is in the first few pages. I would toss you a link, but I'm at work now without ADV access. It shouldn't be too hard to find. He does great work, all his threads are great follows.

Too bad Gregor gave up on that project. I use to ride with him when he was living in NYC but that was many years ago.

wirespokes · « **Reply #22 on:** August 17, 2020, 11:20:58 PM »

He lives about ten miles from me now. Haven't seen him in a while thought....

The easiest solution is either swap some 195mm triples or the whole front end. Most of the newer Cali front wire wheels are 2.5" wide. In converting my 85LM1000 I just swapped the whole front end from a 97 Cali 1100. But then I removed the 2.5" rim and replaced it with a 2.15 since that's what the 1000S had.

Before you mill off the disc mounting bosses be sure there's enough room for the calipers between the disc and spokes. I think that's the deciding factor.

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #23 on:** August 18, 2020, 11:42:49 AM »

That is wise to check. Thanks...

Mayor_of_BBQ · « **Reply #24 on:** August 19, 2020, 11:55:13 AM »

Quote from: Cdn850T5NT on August 17, 2020, 10:11:45 AM

I read the reference link (Advrider) with great interest. I looked closely at the graphics. What's not clear to me is whether Gregor deepened the counterbores for the wheel bearings and possibly faced the casting to suit. Clearly he milled the locating tabs and the rotor bolting surfaces... Does anyone know the answer?

If I were to want to switch to an 18" frt hoop on my T5... and I wanted to go to a 2.5" wide rim (from my current 2.15" wide) - AND LeMans 18" hoops continue to be elusive... that would be the procedure I'd have to follow.

BTW my forks are 38mm, spaced 180mm appart.

Very instructive; nicely done!

Gregor is super nice guy, I am sure if you sent him a message thru ADV or instagram, he would answer...

In refrence to your T5, there is another thread on ADV you might find of interest "Guzzi T-5, Will it ever be cool?" Not sure of the exact title, but if you search around those terms you can prob find it. I dont know if the bike/thread was ever finished, but he was making great strides... and yeah is was looking pretty dang cool. I dont think he ever ditched the 16" wheels tho

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #25 on:** August 19, 2020, 01:31:59 PM »

Thanks, Mayor. Yes I did find (some time ago) that thread on the T5. Interesting... yeah and he kept both 16's. Mine is a series III T5 so it has the same set-up as an SP II (16" 2.15"wide frt, 18" 3.00" wide back). The T5 series 3 has the same forks, swingarm, and brakes as the SP II.

JMD · « **Reply #26 on:** August 19, 2020, 04:37:37 PM »

If it were mine I'd keep the 16"er. With modern tires it's not such an issue as it was in the 80's and as one has commented it will slow the handling. My '89 LM
steers like a truck. Now if you went to 17" that would be ideal!

bigbikerrick · « **Reply #27 on:** August 19, 2020, 04:41:57 PM »

Yes, JMD, I plan to keep the 16 and like it. I just thought that if an 18" were a direct, simple swap, it would be fun to try,and see how it feels. It really does steer great with the 16 with about 37-38 psi in the tire.
Rick.

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Author Topic: Will this 18" wheel fit a lemans? (Read 2705 times)