Author Topic: Why the high tails????  (Read 4843 times)

Offline lucky phil

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Re: Why the high tails????
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2020, 04:09:57 PM »
To have a motorcycle that truly "handles" you need to have the footpegs located basically under the riders crotch or even a little aft. This is so the rider can carry all their body weight on their feet without having to use the handlebars to any great extent to support themselves. In other words be able to "weigh the pegs" to assist bike control. Pegs mounted forward like a cruiser remove 1 critical element of bike control from the equation, the ability to "weigh the peg/s" during cornering. This is why race and sports orientated bikes aren't feet forward. So to a large extent seat height and therefore seat support frame height and vertical location on a Touring/GT/Sports style bike are dictated by the location of the foot pegs to get the peg location somewhere close to beneath the riders crotch give or take depending on which category the bike is. Cruisers are completely different of course as the weighing of the pegs is off the agenda for them by and large.
If you go out to your garage and sit on you bike in the normal riding position and then elevate you body by extending your legs and find you can lift and support yourself with your legs alone with no or minimal need to use the handlebars for assistance then your peg positioning is close to perfect for the ability to use the foot pegs for bike control. Weighing the pegs is a major influence in bike control and you see this on the soles of race boots where the pegs gouge holes in the centre of the soles on the track. A lot of people don't realise this I don't think. So peg location and the distance required between the seat and foot pegs to allow the legs to assume a position that gets the feet under the crotch is the major reason. You cant lower the pegs to any great extent or you sacrifice ground clearance so they raise the seat to get the peg to seat longitudinal positioning right.     
Ciao     
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 04:25:06 PM by lucky phil »
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Offline Muzz

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Re: Why the high tails????
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2020, 04:57:07 PM »
I can't ever see myself up there as I'm not interested in being counted among the perching pillionista.

Like ya style G.G! :thumb: :thumb: :grin:
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Why the high tails????
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2020, 05:20:04 PM »
I suspect it is a combination of things.
The old style twin shock suspension only had a couple of inches of travel. But the monoshock with the linkages and such in front of the tire, can give you a LOT of travel, so the rear fender NEEDS to be much higher.
Then it is esthetics. Some designers think it looks nice, or might help sell bikes. Whatever. I don't care much for the look either.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Offline Muzz

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Re: Why the high tails????
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2020, 05:32:46 PM »
I suspect it is a combination of things.
The old style twin shock suspension only had a couple of inches of travel. But the monoshock with the linkages and such in front of the tire, can give you a LOT of travel, so the rear fender NEEDS to be much higher.
Then it is esthetics. Some designers think it looks nice, or might help sell bikes. Whatever. I don't care much for the look either.

My '03 Breva is a twin shock Wayne, and the frame has the kick up.  My wife said it was quite nice not having helmets knocking together, but didn't like the wind force on her head.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess.
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Why the high tails????
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2020, 07:53:45 PM »
Agree with Phil, bikes with rear sets handle better.  I think it's due to the leverage the rider has on the pegs.
John L 
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oldbike54

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Re: Why the high tails????
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2020, 10:11:21 PM »
Agree with Phil, bikes with rear sets handle better.  I think it's due to the leverage the rider has on the pegs.


 Dunno , if you can put any weight on the pegs when they are behind you I would be surprised . In fact it seems people like Keith Code have pretty much discredited that weighting the pegs makes any difference .

 Besides , the real answer is so you can high tail it outta there .

 

Offline Huzo

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Re: Why the high tails????
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2020, 12:38:37 AM »
“Weighting the pegs” makes ZERO difference..
If you place more pressure on (say) the left peg, then you apply some other equal and opposite force, (most likely downward with your right palm), to maintain the centre of mass above the point of support..(tyre contact patch..) If it were not so, the bike would fall on it’s side.
Please guys... Just believe it, or read a book, or go back to high school physics, or ask Isaac Newton...
Just go out and ride your bike at 10 mph straight and level.
Then lift your right foot off the peg and “weight the left peg”..
An observer watching you from the front, will see that the bike is leaning to YOUR right..(his left..) and you will find that you are applying asymmetric loading to the grips..Or you will be holding more weight on your right palm.
This is the same in a balanced turn.
The rolling (leaning), forces are in equilibrium and as such, the gravity (down) and the centrifugal (sic) force outwards,  are in balance around the centre of mass.
Applying an asymmetric load on the pegs when the bike is in a stable state, does not move the c of m away from where it needs to be.
A bike that is not currently crashing, will ALWAYS have the c of m above the contact patch...It has to be so..
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 12:41:40 AM by Huzo »

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Why the high tails????
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2020, 07:13:04 PM »
High seat and peg position I can deal with
High tail = high pillion seat to me
Missus hates wind blast
I hate because I can’t get on the bike, ditto top boxes, sissy bars etc etc

Ugly is subjective so won’t go there

But maybe it is because of race rear fairings, no doubt beneficial on a moto gp bike at 200mph
Sad that fashion has nothing to do with real function, 2 up touring is not moto gp, aerodynamics gone with pillion in te breeze
I love watching couples getting on the really silly ones, GS etc, some of the manoeuvres, incredible.
One couple I know, she climbs on, on the sidestand, he stands on left peg, pulls away, then swings his right leg over the fuel tank. If I did that it would end in tears sooner or later

 

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