Oil Pressure Sensor failure

[raul]

I'm having trouble with my 2014 Norge.  I get an intermittent warning light and it shows the dashboard code 08, which is oil pressure failure.  I suspect the sensor, but I can't get too it without major disassembly of the bike and I'm trying to get out of town for a trip.  I'm wondering how often the Norge has oil pressure failure or if I may safely ride it like it is.  I know that's an impossible question to answer.  Looking for opinions.

[LowRyter]

Take off a valve cover or remove the sensor and run the bike.  You'll know if it's squirting oil all over you.  If not, you don't have pressure.  If it's the sender you can probably hold off until you find an opportunity to fix it.  If you have no oil pressure, you'll need to park it until it's fixed.

Also, since it's intermittent, you might make sure your oil is topped up. 

[raul]

Since the problem is intermittent, I'm wondering if it really is low pressure, but only intermittently. 

[acguzzi]

does it correlate with temperature?

[Iron Cross Junction]

Didn't know that newer ones suffered from that OPS issue, but -- as you said -- no guarantees it's "only" the OPS.

Anyway, I suffered from one of the early Norge oil-pump failures with catastrophic results, so I am (even now, 60K+ miles ago) very sensitive to red lights on the dash.  I continued to have intermittent scares until I replaced to pick-up connector.

FWIW, having BTDT accidentally with my EV, you don't have to pull a valve cover to check OP ... just leave out the dipstick.  I was still finding oil in my old GarageMahalo for years after that.   

Not sure what kind of trip you have in mind, and I have long been wary pf the "just ride it" sort of advice.  Still, that's what I do if that valve-cover or dipstick check indicated pressure.  It almost certainly will, as when my oil pump failed it was an astonishingly brief period from the oil lamp symbol -- VERY different from the "mere" OPS red light! -- to the screech of a seized piston. If you were headed to that sort of disaster, you'd likely know by now.

All of that said, I'd also ensure I had a towing plan! 

Keep us posted.

Bill

[Tom]

If you out on the road you have no choice but to ride it BUT IMHO I wouldn't start out a trip with monkey on my back.  It would be better to confirm oil pressure and/or flow before leaving you house.  

[rocker59]

I would not start the trip with an intermittent oil pressure light.

I learned by doing.  Intermittent light on my Quota 1100 proved to be a loosening oil filter.

The results were catastrophic. 

It's more likely you have an oil pressure problem than it is that the sensor has gone bad.

[Iron Cross Junction]

If you out on the road you have no choice but to ride it BUT IMHO I wouldn't start out a trip with monkey on my back.  It would be better to confirm oil pressure and/or flow before leaving you house.

I would not start the trip with an intermittent oil pressure light.

I learned by doing.  Intermittent light on my Quota 1100 proved to be a loosening oil filter.

The results were catastrophic. 

It's more likely you have an oil pressure problem than it is that the sensor has gone bad.

Tom and Mike are sissies. Be audacious. 

Seriously, I wouldn't start out on a trip, either, before confirming pressure thus my pull-the-dipstick (or, as LowRyter suggested), the valve cover.

That said, I do disagree a bit with Mike's "It's more likely you have an oil pressure problem than it is that the sensor has gone bad."  Actually, he's right -- the sensor is probably just fine, but the connector likely isn't.  I went through three (!) OPS before I realized (from posts here) that the connector was the culprit, not the OPS itself.  Until I went with ITSec's fix, I was constantly worried about that intermittent light and error code.

OTOH, a quick story that undercuts what I just said.

Years ago, my son (then 18 or so) took his girlfriend from Fairfax where we then lived to Kentucky to introduce her (and probably show her off; she was a looker).  They launched in his Pontiac Fiero.  A few hours later, I got a call.  Short version is that he blew up the engine near Clifton Forge, Va.  Red light?  Yes, but he "thought the light was probably wrong."  Really.

I launched and $olved the various problem$.  That night, however, as I sat in my motel room, I could listen to him and his girlfriend in the adjoining room having a very fine time.  On the bright side, he has since become quite attentive to ICE idiot lights and PM generally.

So, Raul, do as you please. Again, if I confirmed pressure as stated, have not seen the "The Lamp," was not heading off for the trip of a lifetime, and had a plan for the expected and unexpected, I probably go.  YMMV.

As I said, keep us posted.  And, if you do go and your travels bring you anywhere near the top of Virginia, stop in and visit the Moto Grappa.

Best,

Bill

[Mackers]

Isn't this symptomatic of a broken sump spacer gasket?

[Iron Cross Junction]

Isn't this symptomatic of a broken sump spacer gasket?

Ah.

Now THAT'S a possibility.

Not sure that's been discussed here and my P4 wants my attention so no time to look here for that or on GrisoGhetto.

Good catch.

Bill

[Kiwi_Roy]

The Guzzi switches are prone to failure, the working parts are too tiny.
Connect a pressure gauge and ride with confidence.

[ChrisG]

I had an intermittent oil pressure light on my 07 Breva.  It was the sensor. I had an intermittent oil light on my 96 Cali, it was the connection.  I know there's a bunch of bodywork to remove on the Norge but probably worth digging in there for the piece-of-mind. 

[Huzo]

Here’s the guts.
As long as it’s not leaking, do the following.
Ride off down the road with the red light on, get up to highway speed and (keeping your hand off the clutch), turn the key off...
Wait 2-3 seconds and KEEPING YOUR HAND OFF THE THROTTLE, turn the key back on.
Be careful you don’t get Liberace’d in the process.
The engine will resume with no terrible jerk and the light will almost certainly go out. Don’t do it any other way than this. You will have no problem.

If the light goes out...?
It’s a failing switch.
My ‘07 Norge is currently asking for it’s 3rd one in 200,000 k.
They fail at about 60,000.

PS. Don’t buggerise around trying to replace it by shortcutting things. Tank off, airbox out.
It’s 30 minutes in, 40 minutes out.
Ask as many questions as you need.

[Gliderjohn]

One other thing. Are you using 10-60 oil? If not that may be it, especially under hot engine conditions.
GliderJohn

[corsajim]

I thought someone made a gauge that screwed into the opening for the dipstick. Peace of mind if nothing else.

[tris]

There are 2 oil pressure related errors that show on the dash error list
1)   Oil sensor fault DSB 07
2)   Oil pressure fault DSB 08

My old B11 would randomly give me one error or the other (i can't remember which) plus the red triangle of death

On my bike I found that tightening the connector on the nail head connector fixed it for a while but replacing the connector with the correct one (not a female spade as fitted by MG  ) fixed it permanently and no new switch

So if your Norge has the nail head connector I'd try squeezing the connector up and see if that brings you any luck

[Old Jock]

I don't know the Norge so can only base things on the bikes I have.

When you say sensor AFAIK all Guzzis OEM use a switch, but that's semantics.

If it's like the switch on the older bikes they are prone to failure, so it's a distinct possibility.

However, if it truly is loss of pressure it could completely trash the engine or worse you.

If it siezes and it doesn't take long, it's minutes prior to starting to do significant damage.

As a very minimum I'd let the bike get cold or slightly warm then do as Lowryter suggested if the trip is urgent or you really, really don't want to miss it.

By doing LowRyter's check on a cold or slightly warm engine you'll eliminate oil temp as a factor and know if you really have pressure or not.

That said if it's intermittent, then a loose filter could also cause a similar condition and you'd need to drain the oil and drop the sump to check.

Has any work been completed recently or did this just happen out the blue?

If I had to ride I'd check for pressure physically and also check the filter's tight as a minimum.

Personally I wouldn't be able to enjoy my ride though knowing there is a risk of badly damaging an engine, but I'm the cautious type. 

[Huzo]

That’s the best advice Jock and cannot be disputed as the right way to go.
If I’m guilty of anything and I admit that I am, it’s that I’m being a bit casual in the face of possible catastrophe, because I know the routine of how these things go.
But now that you’ve applied a bit of brake, I’m bound to admit and readily do, that your advice is sound and all things considered is doubtless the way to go.

Time will prove that it is a failing sensor, but that does not justify tempting fate by doing what I suggested.
I’ll withdraw my suggestion in the face of good common sense and a prudent approach...

[Old Jock]

That’s the best advice Jock and cannot be argued as the right way to go.
If I’m guilty of anything and I admit that I am, it’s that I’m a bit casual in the face of possible catastrophe, because I know the routine of how these things go.
But now that you’ve applied a bit of brake, I’m bound to admit and readily do, that your advice is sound and all things considered is doubtless the way to go.

Time will prove that it is a failing sensor, but that does not justify tempting fate by doing what I suggested.
I’ll withdraw my suggestion in the face of good common sense and a prudent approach...

Naah Peter your advice is more valid than mine, in so many ways

I do very little miles, you go all over the bloody world, you own a Norge, with a stupid mileage on it.

I don't think I've seen one it the flesh 

Besides OP asked for opinions, you're giving another option from another perspective, at the end of it he'll take the course off action he deems fit.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I have had several switches fail, they are a normally closed contact so will not fail On if the connector is lose.
If you remove one of the lines feeding the rocker gear and start the bike it will leave you in no doubt if you have pressure or not. its the same pressure at each head as the pressure switch sees.
I typed "Oil Pressure Switch" into the search box and got about 100 topics, here's the first one, lots of Norge in there.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=81091.0
With my Instrument Technician hat on I say look for an automotive replacement, the fatter the better, more skukumn switch mechanism.
Here's one from Auto Zone  https://www.autozone.com/external-engine/oil-pressure-switch/p/duralast-oil-pressure-switch-ps486/261395_0_0

[Huzo]

Naah Peter your advice is more valid than mine, in so many ways

I do very little miles, you go all over the bloody world, you own a Norge, with a stupid mileage on it.

I don't think I've seen one it the flesh 

Besides OP asked for opinions, you're giving another option from another perspective, at the end of it he'll take the course off action he deems fit.

Hmmm...Yeah.
But you know John, the end doesn’t necessarily justify the means. If I exhibit a casual disregard for the welfare of my engine by taking a flippant approach to oil pressure diagnosis, it does not justify my thoughtlessness if I happen to be correct.
It would indeed be a crying shame if our OP inadvertently completed a crash course in Aluminium welding... 

[Howard R]

Didn't know that newer ones suffered from that OPS issue, but -- as you said -- no guarantees it's "only" the OPS.

Anyway, I suffered from one of the early Norge oil-pump failures with catastrophic results, so I am (even now, 60K+ miles ago) very sensitive to red lights on the dash.  I continued to have intermittent scares until I replaced to pick-up connector.

FWIW, having BTDT accidentally with my EV, you don't have to pull a valve cover to check OP ... just leave out the dipstick.  I was still finding oil in my old GarageMahalo for years after that.   

Not sure what kind of trip you have in mind, and I have long been wary pf the "just ride it" sort of advice.  Still, that's what I do if that valve-cover or dipstick check indicated pressure.  It almost certainly will, as when my oil pump failed it was an astonishingly brief period from the oil lamp symbol -- VERY different from the "mere" OPS red light! -- to the screech of a seized piston. If you were headed to that sort of disaster, you'd likely know by now.

All of that said, I'd also ensure I had a towing plan! 

Keep us posted.

Bill

Bill, we love you but this is bad information.  Oil blowing out of an unoccupied dipstick hole IS NOT an indication of actual oil pressure in the engine lubrication system.  Other than the mere presence of oil in the crankcase, there is no connection between the two.  There is a lot of "thrashing around" inside the crankcase, the "whirly bits" as Pete Roper might say throw a lot of oil everywhere.  The pressurized lubrication does not go anywhere near the dipstick.  The removal of a valve cover does expose the pressurized parts (rocker arms) so that is a good diagnostic.

Howard

[Moparnut72]

I can verify that if you leave the dipstick out, oil will be evident. I changed oil in my 1400 recently, I left the dipstick out to paint it white so that it will show the oil level better. I left it out so that the paint would dry. You all know that I forgot to reinstall it, oil everywhere. But this doen NOT indicate oil pressure is present.

When I got my Audace the engine had just been replaced. When I got it home on a trailer I got to ride it for about 20 minutes. Later in the day I was ready to head out for a real ride. The red triangle of death was flashing. Doing some research I found that if it is on solidly there is an oil pressure problem. If it is flashing the ECU isn't able to "talk" to the sensor. A reliable source told me to pull a valve cover, After cleaning up that mess I rode it to the dealership where they found that the conector to the sensor wasn't fully seated.

I would pull the valve cover and see what you have.
kk

[Iron Cross Junction]

Bill, we love you but this is bad information.  Oil blowing out of an unoccupied dipstick hole IS NOT an indication of actual oil pressure in the engine lubrication system.  Other than the mere presence of oil in the crankcase, there is no connection between the two.  There is a lot of "thrashing around" inside the crankcase, the "whirly bits" as Pete Roper might say throw a lot of oil everywhere.  The pressurized lubrication does not go anywhere near the dipstick.  The removal of a valve cover does expose the pressurized parts (rocker arms) so that is a good diagnostic.

Howard

Thanks, Howard. 

Actually, Howard, you sound just like Kathi: "Bill, we love you but this is bad information."  At least you only pointed out one error.  She has an encyclopedia's worth on almost everything.   

I have to say that when my EV decorated my garage that day , it was and is hard to believe that more wasn't at play than "whirly bits" throwing around things, but I believe you despite that exciting mess at the time.

No biggie on pulling a valve cover.  Appreciate the counseling.  Come by and visit again sometime.

Bill

P.S. Ditto Moparnut72.

[blackcat]

Is there any difference between this switch: https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2387

And this switch:  http://www.autozone.com/external-engine/oil-pressure-switch/duralast-oil-pressure-switch/261395_0_0/

[Kiwi_Roy]

Is there any difference between this switch: https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2387

And this switch:  http://www.autozone.com/external-engine/oil-pressure-switch/duralast-oil-pressure-switch/261395_0_0/

Yes, knowing how unreliable the first option prove to be I would try the Autozone one.
N.B. this is nothing against MG Cycle, I'm sure their's is an approved Guzzi spare
I have pulled these apart and wondered how they ever worked at all.

[blackcat]

Yes, knowing how unreliable the first option prove to be I would try the Autozone one.
N.B. this is nothing against MG Cycle, I'm sure their's is an approved Guzzi spare
I have pulled these apart and wondered how they ever worked at all.

I have never replaced the one on my 07 Norge but it sounds like I should buy one as it has around 50K on the bike.  Of course I just had the tank, air cleaner removed to replace the inner plugs. Maybe I should just change it now instead of waiting.

[raul]

I really appreciate all of your responses.  I temporarily solved the problem by leaving the Norge at home.  I'm on a borrowed VFR this weekend riding in West Virginia.  I'll tear into the Norge after I get home and get some time.

I will be revisiting this thread before I start so I will be sure to check all the possibilities posted here.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Jf you are concerned about oil pressure the only way to ease your fear is to measure it with a bourdon tube pressure gauge (0-100 PSI is a suitable range)
You can do this by connecting a gauge to either of the lines feeding the rocker gear, it splits after the pressure switch. You can simply use one of the hoses to temporarily supply the gauge or make a permanent connection. I'm not aware of the connection type at each head, my old Eldorado has a banjo fitting there so it was a simple matter of adding another banjo with a longer bolt.