Home Theater / Stereo Issue

[LowRyter]

It appears that electricity has been out to get me for the last week.  First my laptop went bonkers (tech fixed by a good internal cleaning and reboot), next my EV lost it's charge system (still dead) and then on Tuesday my Stereo Home Entertainment system hard broke.  I'd like to explain and maybe get some feedback on the later.

I picked up a CD and put into the player and noticed the bass wasn't punchy.  Found my Sub Woofer wasn't working.  I did some troubleshooting but didn't get the sub to work.  Later that day I went to the patio and didn't get any sound from the satellite speakers, playing with the receiver input circuits they either didn't work at all but my cable comes in from a different input.  After playing with the receiver, the internal circuitry works (radio, USB) but the inputs are toast.

So, I get a new AVR receiver, it's an upgrade and works well.  The cost hurts but I like it. 

Then back to the subwoofer.  I troubleshoot it based on instructions from the manufacturer and discover it's the amplifier/power unit (400 watt).  The company has agreed to send my new amplifier unit, free of charge even thought it's well out of warranty.  So I expect to receive and install the unit into the speaker box next week.

Now given all that, it seems more than a coincidence that both the subwoofer and receiver bit the dust together.  I considered that it might be caused by a power surge, however the stereo, sub, TV, DVD/CD player, cable box and several other things were on the same surge protector but only the sub and receiver were damaged.

Is it possible the sub could've damaged the receiver?  Or vice versa?  Something else?  Coincidence?  Power surge, anyway?

Open to ideas.

[Guzzidad]

   I had a problem about 15 years ago when I noticed the lights in my house were changing brightness on occasion. I plugged a multimeter into a receptacle and saw voltage vary between 98V annd 140V. Electric company came out and found a loose connection on the neutral wire ( or maybe it was the ground, I forget ) on the transformer on the pole outside.

[cliffrod]

   I had a problem about 15 years ago when I noticed the lights in my house were changing brightness on occasion. I plugged a multimeter into a receptacle and saw voltage vary between 98V annd 140V. Electric company came out and found a loose connection on the neutral wire ( or maybe it was the ground, I forget ) on the transformer on the pole outside.

Same ^^^^^ issue here.  I had fits over inconsistently dead circuits in my shops for years.  They were usually on outlets daisy-chained by the previous owner, not on the circuits I added.  Money was budgeted to rewire. I finally called the power company when I realized my 220v was only about 120v-125v....  They came pretty fast when I told them I was losing at least 120v between the entrance and my buildings.  It ended up being a bad connection on the transformer at the street.  They fixed that and it's been much much better.

But now the lights are flickering in unison again..  Not cool.

[delrod]

John , two things come to mind. Call your power company and ask them to come check things out. It won't cost a thing and could be a thing. Second and this is only half serious,go tomorrow and see if your truck will start

[LowRyter]

   I had a problem about 15 years ago when I noticed the lights in my house were changing brightness on occasion. I plugged a multimeter into a receptacle and saw voltage vary between 98V annd 140V. Electric company came out and found a loose connection on the neutral wire ( or maybe it was the ground, I forget ) on the transformer on the pole outside.

My lights do dim at times.  I'm not brave enough to test it like you.  But it does noticeably happen.

If I call them, give me something more to tell them (remember had a surge protector).  This is a new development that new never considered.   

[LowRyter]

Same ^^^^^ issue here.  I had fits over inconsistently dead circuits in my shops for years.  They were usually on outlets daisy-chained by the previous owner, not on the circuits I added.  Money was budgeted to rewire. I finally called the power company when I realized my 220v was only about 120v-125v....  They came pretty fast when I told them I was losing at least 120v between the entrance and my buildings.  It ended up being a bad connection on the transformer at the street.  They fixed that and it's been much much better.

But now the lights are flickering in unison again..  Not cool.

That sounds important.  Not that understood any of it.  Thanks.

[LowRyter]

John , two things come to mind. Call your power company and ask them to come check things out. It won't cost a thing and could be a thing. Second and this is only half serious,go tomorrow and see if your truck will start

Third recommendation on the same idea, never thought about it before.

Thanks guys.

[cliffrod]

That sounds important.  Not that understood any of it.  Thanks.

To clarify- the outlets on the circuit which were wired by the previous owner were all coincidentally connected to the new panel (which I installed) on the same 110/120V leg that was the poorly connected leg at the transformer on the street. two legs from the street provide 220v 1ph service @ approx 110V each, except one of those legs wasn't providing consistent 110v power.... . 

This happened in the two buildings serviced by that same 110v/120v leg via Main panel for main entrance that is in a separate third building..    The planets apparently aligned as I was connecting wires to breakers in the other old buildings, because it wasn't intentional on my part..  They were all connected to the one lead with a loose connection at the transformer at the street, so received intermittent power. It was either no lights, no power tools, no nothing or everything would work.  Not cool.  Even the guys from the power company didn't believe me until they traced to problem back to the street.

The moral of the story- If there's a loose or corroded connections at your entrance, it can cause all kinds of ghost problems that will make you nuts AND wreck equipment.  Hope you find the problem.

[Murray]

My lights do dim at times.  I'm not brave enough to test it like you.  But it does noticeably happen.

If I call them, give me something more to tell them (remember had a surge protector).  This is a new development that new never considered.   

For about $30 you can get one of the socket power consumption meters. All the ones I have seen also have a voltage function, which saves jamming multi-meter probes into the wall socket to get a reading.

[LowRyter]

To clarify- the outlets on the circuit which were wired by the previous owner were all coincidentally connected to the new panel (which I installed) on the same 110/120V leg that was the poorly connected leg at the transformer on the street. two legs from the street provide 220v 1ph service @ approx 110V each, except one of those legs wasn't providing consistent 110v power.... . 

This happened in the two buildings serviced by that same 110v/120v leg via Main panel for main entrance that is in a separate third building..    The planets apparently aligned as I was connecting wires to breakers in the other old buildings, because it wasn't intentional on my part..  They were all connected to the one lead with a loose connection at the transformer at the street, so received intermittent power. It was either no lights, no power tools, no nothing or everything would work.  Not cool.  Even the guys from the power company didn't believe me until they traced to problem back to the street.

The moral of the story- If there's a loose or corroded connections at your entrance, it can cause all kinds of ghost problems that will make you nuts AND wreck equipment.  Hope you find the problem.

I had the house built in '92.  So skip over previous owner stuff.   What panel?  What entrance?

Too cryptic, too tech for me.

[cliffrod]

I had the house built in '92.  So skip over previous owner stuff.   What panel?  What entrance?

Too cryptic, too tech for me.

General description from a non-electrician to help understand for discussing with contractor, repair man, whomever-

Like mine, your house likely has normal 220v 1phase residential service, which is necessary for an electric oven, dryer and other larger items.  So two wires, each carrying approx 120-v125v, carry power from power pole outside into (aka entrance) your main electrical breaker panel.  120v + 120v provides a minimum of 220 v.  Two wires means twice as many volts.

In the breaker box, one 120v wire connects to left side (L) bar.  The other connects to the right side(R) bar.  When supplying power to breakers below this connection, Each connection has a zig-zag configuration. That means while moving down the vertical stack of breakers, the breakers correspond to feed wires as L, R, L, R, etc..  This allows a single breaker to provide min 110v-120v (only touching one L or R leg) while a double breaker (which touches both L & R legs) to provide min 220v-240v. 

Sometimes a loose connection- outside house, inside house, etc- can cause a loss of power on that impacted circuit.  When one of those 120v wires is loose or corroded at the power pole, it can cause intermittent problems in the house that are maddening to diagnose until,they remain open/disconnected.  If the pole or wires moved in the wind or ??, it was apparently enough to either disrupt or establish continuity to supply full power and my problems disappeared as mysteriously as they had appeared.  Repeat, repeat until they finally stayed out of contact long enough to diagnose.  Drove me nuts.

In my shops, I coincidentally connected nearly all the old work to just one leg of feed (L or R, don't remember) when I upgraded panels and added work.  It shouldn't matter.  but it did because of that loose feed wire at the transformer at street.  If you've got the same problem, other things connected to the same L or R feed leg may be eletrically unhappy.

[9fingers]

Power amps in subs do tend to fail eventually as there is a lot of heat build up.......the nemesis of electronics. But it is odd that both units failed at the same time and a lightning strike or other power surge could be the culprit. Power strips provide some, but not total protection.
Scott

[AJ Huff]

I had the house built in '92.  So skip over previous owner stuff.   What panel?  What entrance?

Too cryptic, too tech for me.

Hey LowRyter, I have to agree I haven't understood a single response you've gotten and how it relates to your problem. LOL.

A couple of ideas, are you sure it's a surge protector and not just a power strip? And how old is it? I'm notorious for using ancient ones. I've got power strips and surge protectors 20 even 30 years old! LOL They do fail. They even kind of wear out. I've even had individual outlets on the strip/protector fail. For my high end stuff, like the TV or stereo, I always invest in a new one, and a good surge protector will cost at least a minimum of $40. That's one of the ways you'll know it's not a power strip. 😉

-AJ

[LowRyter]

Power amps in subs do tend to fail eventually as there is a lot of heat build up.......the nemesis of electronics. But it is odd that both units failed at the same time and a lightning strike or other power surge could be the culprit. Power strips provide some, but not total protection.
Scott

That could be the case.  I know a wind storm came through the area knocked out several transformers (at least according to the weatherman and storm chasers).  The cable feed went out but not my electricity.  But I can't remember whether the storm was night before or after my problems. 

[LowRyter]

Hey LowRyter, I have to agree I haven't understood a single response you've gotten and how it relates to your problem. LOL.

A couple of ideas, are you sure it's a surge protector and not just a power strip? And how old is it? I'm notorious for using ancient ones. I've got power strips and surge protectors 20 even 30 years old! LOL They do fail. They even kind of wear out. I've even had individual outlets on the strip/protector fail. For my high end stuff, like the TV or stereo, I always invest in a new one, and a good surge protector will cost at least a minimum of $40. That's one of the ways you'll know it's not a power strip. 😉

-AJ

Yes I verified that it was a surge protector after I replaced it.  Probably 15 years old.  No rating on it. 

And I did purchase a new one rated @ 1080 what-evers...

[twowings]

No need to delve into household wiring theory. 
IF your lights are dimming in unison, you have a problem.
Call the power company and tell them what is occurring.
They will inspect your drop, service head, and meter and tell you what you need to do next.
It happened to me and the power company fixed it for free.

[guzzler]

G'day
They're called Brown outs here in Oz !
It's down to either an issue with the grid not being able to supply full power to your house or an issue with your end.
Either way your appliances arn't getting full power which causes flickering lights microwave works but at a snails pace, tv works in one room not in another, same with lights etc.
We had this happen here about 8 x months ago where a storm damaged lines in our street and we got brown outs some lost all power.
After getting a sparky ( electrician ) out he recognised that the issue was at the power companys end as our house was getting only a third of the power delivered to it and got onto the power company to rectify the issue asap.In the meantime we were told to turn everything off until they could get to it otherwise you risk damaging your appliances.
We were lucky in that once the house got full power again lights were fine microwave /tv/ air con and hi fi et al all good and no damage.
In another instance years ago in another house we got a big surge to the house which caused same issues.The power company told us we were lucky the house didn't catch fire and showed us a bolt ( one of two and probably not a bolt but looked like one ) that bore the brunt of the surge and effectively saved the house! It was melted and half the size of the other....
We had the house rewired/updated straight away.Also happened once when an old light shorted. I would strongly advise you have a sparky take a look at your house mate....Cheers Guzzler

[AJ Huff]

Why are you guys talking about houses and not LowRyter's stereo?

-AJ

[LowRyter]

No need to delve into household wiring theory. 
IF your lights are dimming in unison, you have a problem.
Call the power company and tell them what is occurring.
They will inspect your drop, service head, and meter and tell you what you need to do next.
It happened to me and the power company fixed it for free.

fairly infrequent. 

[LowRyter]

Thanks AJ,

So could the sub have caused it?  It seems to have taken the input board and my zone two speakers.  The USB and tuner were fine but nothing for zone 2.

[leroysch]

 Getting back to the stereo.....
1. Was Zone 2 enabled in your receiver? I can disable zone 2 in my AV processor. Were the connections from the receiver (and any amps along the way) to the satellites sound? (No pun intended.)
2. You mentioned that the inputs to your receiver were toast....but the only problem you mentioned when playing a CD was that there was no bass. Assuming the CD player is an input to your receiver...why did you conclude the receiver's inputs were toast?
3. "...but my cable comes in from a different input..." Not sure what this means or what makes it relevant to the faulty receiver conclusion. What cable...and if it's coming in from a different input (on the receiver)...see 2 above.

[LowRyter]

Getting back to the stereo.....
1. Was Zone 2 enabled in your receiver? I can disable zone 2 in my AV processor. Were the connections from the receiver (and any amps along the way) to the satellites sound? (No pun intended.)
2. You mentioned that the inputs to your receiver were toast....but the only problem you mentioned when playing a CD was that there was no bass. Assuming the CD player is an input to your receiver...why did you conclude the receiver's inputs were toast?
3. "...but my cable comes in from a different input..." Not sure what this means or what makes it relevant to the faulty receiver conclusion. What cable...and if it's coming in from a different input (on the receiver)...see 2 above.

My Zone 2 was totally gone on all inputs.  All but two of the external inputs didn't work, the CD worked and the remaining Cable worked but was in the wrong slot (not on the cable input, instead it was on my Bluetooth and I never got the Bluetooth dongle on any other input).  The subwoofer was also blown.  The internal programs, USB and tuner were unaffected but zone 2 was dead to all.

And I worked the toggles both on the remote and on the receiver buttons. 

[LowRyter]

Update.  The amp for the subwoofer was delivered today, I installed it and it works.   The new receiver is hooked up and working, I'm still learning the ins and outs of it.  All in all, everything is working as best as I can make it all work.

Why it all happened in the first place is quite a mystery. 

I have a bunch of broken electronic equipment.  I'm planning to drop it off to Best Buy rather than throwing it in the dumpster.