NGC - Tire Chains?

[Iron Cross Junction]

So, after 10 days here, Kathi and I find ourselves to be fish and visitors in our daughter's Edmonds (Seattle), Washington, home.

We arrived here via a nonstop Delta on the 20th; were to return today, but flight was cancelled.  Made new reservations for Friday on Alaska Air, but am becoming pessimistic about that happening or, worse, fearing our “non” nonstop trip home will strand us in Portland.  Blech.

The daughter and kids profess to enjoy our continuing stay.  The s-i-l … well, he tries.   

But none of that is really why I post this, tho the unexpected time here prompts it.

Daughter says that the s-i-l wants tire chains and that it might be a nice thing if we got those for him.  We are fine with that, especially as they like to go to places in the PNW winters that might get them stranded.

What I know about snow chains would fit in a (Monopoly board) thimble.   

I had them in Italy.  Remember those as involving challenges, curses, cuts, and pain, tho, when installed, providing miraculous tractability. 

I have wandered around the web today, and am more confused than informed, thus this post seeking the counsel of the experienced. No one from Key West need apply.   

Seriously, the requirements — to the extent that they can be met with one set — are, besides, effectiveness for the job at hand:

* fit on two present vehicles in their garage, i.e., a 2014 GMC Denali (4WD) and 2020 Toyota Highlander (AWD); and

* ease of installation;

* ease of removal.

If they need two separate sets for those vehicles, please advise.

BTW, both daughter and s-i-l are skilled drivers and handy around vehicles and the house.

I await your counsel and recommendations … and our flight! 

Many thanks.

Bill

[RinkRat II]

 According to the owners manual,  the Denali shouldn't use chains if it has 20" wheels due to clearance issues . As for the Highlander, only the front wheels require chains, but which wheels does it have ? 18's or 20's.  Installation and removal is straightforward but a newbie should practice a few times on dry ground  to get the hang of it.  Chain adjusters are a must have. My $.02

       Paul B

[fotoguzzi]

While there you should visit the Experience Music project if you have not been there and if they are open.
There's a tornado of musical instruments, it plays music.

[Brand X]

https://www.nokiantires.com/snow-winter-tires/nokian-hakkapeliitta-9/

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

https://www.tirerack.com/winter/brand.jsp?brand=Bridgestone

[Canuck750]

Tire Chains.... I never needed them and I have spent a liftime driving during winter in Northern Canada.

Before I retired I spent a lot of time on the road summer and winter driving to the towns and cities across Alberta and Saskatchewan on business. In the winter I usually took my own car since the rental fleets do not run dedicated winter ice tires (just all season radials) and I have had an all wheel drive vehicle now for almost 15 years.

I started putting dedicated winter tires on my cars and truck over a decade ago and the difference between a real winter ice tire and an all season tire is amazing. All season tires were never intended for driving on ice covered roads and they loose most of their grip a few degrees below freezing.

Chains are a pain in the a$$ and if they let go the damage they can cause gets costly real quick.

[cliffrod]

Tire Chains.... I never needed them and I have spent a liftime driving during winter in Northern Canada.

Before I retired I spent a lot of time on the road summer and winter driving to the towns and cities across Alberta and Saskatchewan on business. In the winter I usually took my own car since the rental fleets do not run dedicated winter ice tires (just all season radials) and I have had an all wheel drive vehicle now for almost 15 years.

I started putting dedicated winter tires on my cars and truck over a decade ago and the difference between a real winter ice tire and an all season tire is amazing. All season tires were never intended for driving on ice covered roads and they loose most of their grip a few degrees below freezing.

Chains are a pain in the a$$ and if they let go the damage they can cause gets costly real quick.

^^^ this.  Living in VT, we always had winter tires and summer tires, typically mounted on dedicated wheels for each season.  Modern all season tires are better than some tires, but only if tread is deep and they're brand new installed soon after the snow flies.   Depending upon normal driving needs, like those who lived way up in the woods on dirt roads instead of the main roads or who had ridiculous long, steep driveways, the winter tires were studded.   We had chains for our farm trucks when I was younger, but they normally were crap traction tires anyways & vehicles didnt have real fenders that are quickly wrecked by loose tire chains.   None of the locals used tire chains on their normal vehicles.  None.  I regularly drove to the sculpture studio in the very early morning and broke road for 5-8 miles until I came upon another set of vehicle tracks.  Just plain tires without studs.  No chains. Normal stuff.

If you decide to use them, keep them TIGHT and drive very slow slow lest they begin to sling & immediately gobble the fenderwells.  The worst ones have only a few sections, which hammers both transmission and differentials as they lose and gain traction like its a contest.

edit- just remembered and had a chuckle- maybe someone else here also remembers sandpaper retreads, the technological marvel that (along with a couple of 50lb or 100lb bags of sand in the trunk)  turn your winter beater into a go-practically-anywhere machine...? 

[jkguzzi]

I would vote for the gnarliest winter tire you can find before bothering with chains. Where I live in northern Michigan I wouldn't have a vehicle without winter tires. And not just the M&S designation but the "3 Peaks" ones.

[Steve Scott]

I'm from upstate NY, and the mark of a serious winter driver was steel wheels with winter tires. And for all the reasons previously mentioned, chains are also intended for short distance use, so get practiced if they decide to go that way. We did always carried a set in the trunk of our 'winter beaters' (another story) for emergency use, and they are indeed a pain to put on... especially when you're already stuck! but they are the best when there's a half-foot or more of snow on top of ice.

Slightly off topic, anyone else ever wrap rope through the rear wheel of their motorcycle for winter riding? It works a treat for straight riding, but doesn't help a bit for turning. There is nothing in this world heavier than a CB350 on its side on a glare icy road... 'might as well be bolted down.

[Brand X]

Here is the deal with PNW weather. When the temps are around freezing there is generally wet ice and there is nothing slipperier.. if it's colder ,there is not that hydro planning affect that happens when the sun hits the road at 29 degrees out..  I just put a set on of studs on my Neighbor. Little Honda   CRV with  4 wheel drive.Mountain goat traction I used a lot of brands, and Most are pretty dang good now.. Some of the Stud-less winter tires are very good too, just not quite as good if you loose it laterally. The studs will bite back in if you loose traction,and the others will not recover quite as well.. If you slow down just a bit, they both do fine..I do like the Nokien Stud design over most others..   

[pebra]

I used to have chains for my cars when we had a cabin in the mountains with somewhat challenging access - and I used them.
Sometimes I put them on before I got stuck, and sometimes not....
These were "quick install and release" chains which were fairly easy to use. Advance practise strongly recommended, likewise good dedicated gloves.
Had to get new chains every time I changed car, as each set would only fit small variations of tire. Not very expensive.

[John A]

I worked part time as mechanic at a large trucking firm on the west coast. Every fall we made sure all the tractors and trailers had a set of chains that fit. So we would dig out chain sets from the last year and lay them out. We would weld up or replace worn links and lengthen or shorten them and fit them on the semi’s . Then we would mount repaired or fabricated chain carriers and remove the chains and hang them on the carriers. Driver’s got quite angry if their chains didn’t fit. Understandable considering the amount of work just to get to that stage only to find that out. Chains  were required on most mountain passes depending on weather conditions. Spend a day doing that and you knew you had done something. Some of the young fellers would go up to the chain up areas and make a good bit of cash putting chains on semi’s. Easy money on a Saturday…

[Iron Cross Junction]

Many thanks to all for the thoughtful and helpful comments about chains, snow tires, etc. 

It seems to me that, as Brand X notes, the actual need here in the immediate Seattle area for anything beyond all-season tires in good shape is limited.  That said, our kids' long uphill (and, obviously, too, downhill) driveway is an icy beast when one gets the sort of precip and long-lasting temps happening just now. 

Their thinking about chains had more to do with being caught in a weekend cabin in the Cascades than going for milk in the local area.  Be that as it may, I learned (and was reminded of) lots from you folks.  Appreciate you taking the time.

In more selfish news, we got another two inches of snow here overnight.   

If tomorrow’s flight falls through, will probably just suck it up and wait for things to free up after the crush, i.e., 3 or 4 January at the soonest.

If that happens … well, I don’t want to think about it just now.  Besides, that yellow lab wants to play tug-of-war again.   

Best,

Bill 

[SED]

Brand X is right, icy roads are particularly bad on the West side of the Cascades.  Friend from Colorado was laughing at the local drivers until he slid into an alley and almost hit a gas meter.

Local weather scientist explanation:
https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2021/12/why-does-western-washington-have-some.html

You can usually get by with tires, but sometimes you just need the chains.

[Vagrant]

Studs if legal.
The AWD needs all the same.
When one of those chains comes off or breaks it will destroy the fender wells inside and out.

[PeteS]

Modern snow tires plus 4/all wheel drive will turn most vehicle into a snowmobile. That said if you live where there is little snow but want to drive in the mountains occasionally then I can see where chains would make sense. Snow tires wear out quickly on dry pavement and temps about 50.

Pete

[smsw]

Many thanks to all for the thoughtful and helpful comments about chains, snow tires, etc. 

I'm not sure your initial question was answered...beyond folks saying your daughter and SIL don't need them.  However, when you do get snowed in and need chains, nothing else will do (ok, a Snow Cat will).

I'd keep searching the internet, and check out some other forums.
Read This thread....https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/4x4-snow-and-chains.179004/

[John A]

Modern snow tires plus 4/all wheel drive will turn most vehicle into a snowmobile. That said if you live where there is little snow but want to drive in the mountains occasionally then I can see where chains would make sense. Snow tires wear out quickly on dry pavement and temps about 50.

Pete

Yep, we have an ‘05 Toyota RAV4, standard transmission, full time automatic 4 wheel drive. We got it in 2010 and I bought a set of steel wheels and mounted Blizzak snow tars on those. Every spring and fall I swap out wheels & tars. That thing will go anywhere in the snow, it can be so slippery you can’t walk without crashing but no indication of it when driving. The neat part is that the snow tars are still good and look like they’ll go another year. Mostly just have to watch so someone doesn’t run into us. The Rav had 50K miles on it and is still in beautiful shape but I had to beat the alloy wheels off with a eight foot 4x4 because they were super stuck on the hubs from corrosion. I treated the mating flanges with anti sneeze compound and they don’t stick now. Dedicated winter wheels & tires have worked out well. If I lived near mountains I’d sure have a set of chains for it

[steven c]

https://youtu.be/VhY9QN-DPas