Convert Startus interruptus prevention.

[bigbikerrick]

Hi Folks, I have read over the years about the startus interruptus issue, and note that it seems to mostly affect the FI bikes, especially the CARC bikes. Although I have not had issues as of yet, I would like to do the "fix" on my 76 vert to prevent possible future problems.

On this bike ,the starter relay is located hidden behind the rear brake master cyl. and is the thing with the big clear plastic cover.  Should I remove and replace this relay with a modern relay, or just  leave  it in place, and simply wire in a new relay, with its own fused power wire direct from the battery +, with the trigger wire being the wire that originally  connects to the starter spade connector?
 Thanks guys,
Rick D.

[guzzisteve]

It is fine, just use a 32AH battery

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Hi Folks, I have read over the years about the startus interruptus issue, and note that it seems to mostly affect the FI bikes, especially the CARC bikes. Although I have not had issues as of yet, I would like to do the "fix" on my 76 vert to prevent possible future problems.

On this bike ,the starter relay is located hidden behind the rear brake master cyl. and is the thing with the big clear plastic cover.  Should I remove and replace this relay with a modern relay, or just  leave  it in place, and simply wire in a new relay, with its own fused power wire direct from the battery +, with the trigger wire being the wire that originally  connects to the starter spade connector?
 Thanks guys,
Rick D.

If the original relay is still working, keep using it. I do run a direct, fused, wire from the battery to the 30 terminal (may be numbered different on the o.e. relay). It definitely helps. 

[bigbikerrick]

Thanks guys, I will have to check the battery amperage.
Rick.

[bmc5733946]

I make that direct wire from the battery 12 gauge with a 30 amp fuse in a covered sealed holder as shown below. I make it a point to do it on every Moto Guzzi that stays with me whether visiting or owned. It just makes sense. The older bikes are usually not much trouble but the wiring guage on the fuel injected bikes is minimal at best causing several problems. I also increase the guage on battery charge wires and ground wires adding extra grounds as a matter of course. Grounds especially at the steering neck and transmission cover or a bellhousing bolt are always suspect in my book. I use copper never sieze or vaseline as seems reasonable.

https://www.ionnic.com/electrical/connectors/packard/metri-pack-weatherproof-fuse-holders.html
These fuse holders are available in most automotive supply houses.

Brian

[TOMB]

I had I had the same issue as my convert. I decided to just pull the wires off the existing relay and mount the wires to a new relay. Some place else on their bike. That way, I didn't have to take off the dialed board master cylinder. It's set or a fuse block which is easier to pull-down the wires. And attach them to a new relay and use tie wrap. So it's the easy way to spend that way for a whole fifteen years
TOMB

[jacksonracingcomau]

How completely odd, my experience is that the original wiring was barely adequate at the time. We had weekly adventures in the 80’s of 10 year old bikes with starting/charging/ misfiring issues.
Or worse, the odd fire !
Main culprit of course is the mass of unfused wiring , through main ignition switch , kill switch, coils, points etc.
Completely mad
The feed for starter relay has already travelled to the ignition switch, back to the fuse box before getting to starter relay. The relay itself was never the problem. Charlie’s suggestion of new feed the very least that’s needed.
Sensible man fuses the entire wiring loom, rectifier, ignition, everything

[bigbikerrick]

Thanks gentlemen, for the suggestions,and advice. They will be put to good use, as I add relays to my bike.  Ive installed a dedicated, fused relay for the Dyna III, one for the driving lamps, and now one for the starter solenoid. I just need one for the horn,and headlight high/ low to complete the upgrades.
Rick D.

[bmc5733946]

Greg Bender has kits with relays that plug right in for many things. Eastern Beaver has relay kits that can be wired in for headlights, hi and lo, and others as well.

Brian

[chuck peterson]

Never had startus interuptus on the Vert, but rebuilding the bosch starter made a transformation to starting

Cal III was where Starter Interuptus started for me

[John Croucher]

I found that it is not an electrical issue, it is a matter of timing between the teeth on the starter and the flywheel.  The teeth are aligned and crash into each other.  A slight bump of the back wheel forward or backwards will rotate the flywheel and allow the starter to engage and turn over the engine.  It has worked every time for me. 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I found that it is not an electrical issue, it is a matter of timing between the teeth on the starter and the flywheel.  The teeth are aligned and crash into each other.  A slight bump of the back wheel forward or backwards will rotate the flywheel and allow the starter to engage and turn over the engine.  It has worked every time for me.

If it wasn't "startus interruptus", one would hear the solenoid click and attempt to engage the gears. There is only the click of the relay, no solenoid click, so to me that means it <is> electrical. The solenoid is simply not receiving enough power to operate.

[bigbikerrick]

This may sound crazy, Folks but here is what I found on my Convert. If I cranked the engine over, with the spark plugs removed, and one of the spark plugs laying on the head to check spark. When cranking with the starter button depressed, the spark at the plug was very weak, and small. as soon as I released the start button I would get one strong spark. also when I grounded either of the dyna leads( left and right)  as a test, I would get a bright, strong spark.  I started" head scratching".....what does the starter have to do with the spark at the plugs?
 Then I installed the relay to supply power to the dyna with a big wire from the battery, same issue with the weak  spark.  It wasnt until I installed the relay for the starter solenoid, with power straight from the battery, that my spark improved while cranking.  What a difference that made !  Now The plug on top of the head gets a HUGE bright spark while cranking, and the bike starts right up, like never before. Previously, it would crank and crank,while the start button was being depressed, and only as the starter button was released, would the bike fire up.
Rick D.

[chuck peterson]

I believe the appropriate quote right now would be…

‘Moto Guzzi, making electricians out motorcyclists since 1929..’

[bigbikerrick]

I believe the appropriate quote right now would be…

‘Moto Guzzi, making electricians out motorcyclists since 1929..’

" Without Moto Guzzi electrical problems, my life would be empty!"   

My Wife has named my Convert "Christine" ..... after the red plymouth in the Stephen King novel....
Rick D.

[brider]

I also did what Charlie did long ago on my Cal 2 Auto, and since then (with a good battery) it will fire at the touch of the starter button. Stock dizzy & stock carbs, timing per manual. I was tempted to go with a Dyna in the past, but have faith in the stock system.

[pehayes]

I found that it is not an electrical issue, it is a matter of timing between the teeth on the starter and the flywheel.  The teeth are aligned and crash into each other.  A slight bump of the back wheel forward or backwards will rotate the flywheel and allow the starter to engage and turn over the engine.  It has worked every time for me.

Um, we're talking  here about a Convert.  Torque Converter.  Move the rear wheel all you want and you are NOT going to move the flywheel.  Might work on a 5-speed, but not a Convert.

The ring gear teeth and the starter pinion teeth are ramped so as not to bind against each other.  When the pinion gets inserted, it forces the ring gear teeth into position.  If it can't do that amount of physical work then you have an electrical problem within the starter or else and electrical problem within the solenoid.  The Startus-Interuptus repair ensures maximum possible voltage AND amperage to the starter device.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[bigbikerrick]

Thank You Mr. Hayes, for clarifying that. You are correct, things are indeed a bit different on a Convert. Turning the rear wheel, will simply result in "slippage" at the torque converter, and wont turn the flywheel.
Rick.

[pehayes]

Turning the rear wheel, will simply result in "slippage" at the torque converter, and wont turn the flywheel.
Rick.

I have heard but never tested.  If you can tow or roll downhill and get the Convert up to about 40mph you can create enough internal 'drag' to bump start the motor.  Go ahead and let me know how it turns out.

:-)

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[chuck peterson]

Not

But a true story..no crank condition on a Convert after a pit stop at a farm stand, empty two lane headed into Northampton MA. I know it’s a really long steep downhill so i aim it coasting.

After several unsuccessful attempts at dumping the clutch, i coasted to a long stop next to a truck. A logger was taking a break.

I sighed out loud, and tried the starter…not even a click. (Circuit board thingee..2nd one in 60k)

Logger..”need a jump?” I give him a quick thumbs! 2 steps to the door, he pulls out a jump pack.

So when the jump start doesn’t do it, coasting somewhere might..ymmv 🥱

[bigbikerrick]

As a test, I have been rolling along at 50 mph on the convert,and I pulled the clutch in,and hit the kill switch, then switch it to on, and dump the clutch. what I found is if you are running above 40 mph,and in low gear, it will "bump" start, but below 40 mph, it wont. It seems the TC just "slips", and doesnt turn over the engine. In high gear, you have to be going almost 50 mph to get it to start that way. 
Rick.